Episode Transcript
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You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay
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on the cutting edge of sales and
marketing in their industry. Let's give into
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the show. Hi, welcome to
be to be revenue acceleration. My name
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is already mutier and I'm here today. We Stud about CEO of inside squad.
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Are you doing to data? Doing
well with the dispensing pime with you?
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That's that's an absolute pleasure. Of
thanks for coming. So to pic
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today is quite interesting and actually quite
tamely, because we are looking at data,
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we are looking at making sense of
it, and I think a lot
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of organizational doing that. Maybe from
a privacy perspective, maybe from a productivity
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perspective, but the top at who
will tackle today is utilizing data and technology
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to create scalable sales processes. So
that that's you know, if we managed
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to make it walk today, people
will make millions from listening to that podcast.
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So that let's go on. But
before we get into the conversation,
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would you mind taking a few moments
just to introduce yourself in in a bit
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more detail, as well as the
company you represent, inside squad? Yeah,
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so I've done a sales and marketing
exactly my whole life, then a
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cro for the last point five years
or so I'm mostly in technology sales.
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Spent the number of years kind of
learning the traded IBM and then spent the
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number of great years but Cisco,
where I also spent three years over in
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Europe three years in Singapore, so
I've been kind of a global leader for
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a good period of time. I
joined the inside square eighteen months ago.
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I had been a three time customer
and they had done an acquisition just prior
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to my joining. After the last
company I was with the assault of private
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equity and and got exposed to some
new technology that just kind of really opened
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my eyes to to being able to
bring more data into the revenue analytics business
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and thought that I really want to
be part of the company and help help
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bring the next phase of the sales
and revenue profession to being much more of
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a science versus what we've historically been. I mean it's really been much more
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of an our. Yeah, and
for now entering a new phase where analytics
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in the revenue process is now possible
like never before. Absolutely absolutely well,
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is they even do it? My
felt question is a wrong something that's really
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great. Everybody wants one. Everybody
speak about that thing, a repeatable skate
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board. Say this process from Yo
patie. What I do, key Amens,
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companies should consider, you know,
though, to boot the skateboards and
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process. Yeah, I think it's
a contextual question, depending upon what type
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of sales or type of a business
you're in. MEAN, we're starting to
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see, or we have see beam
over the last five, six seven yrrors,
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the ability to leverage technology for the
repeatable process in what I refer to
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or with the marker first two as
a linear sales process. Think of the
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shorter sale cycles and you've had sales
sequencing technology that has enabled your bed ours
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or strs to run a process,
make a call, send an email,
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weight three days, do this,
x, Y and Z. So that
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linear process very common and under thirty
day kind of sale cycles and that technology
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is really helped scale the top of
funnel types of activities and inside sales for
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those kind of transactions. Yeah,
challenge has been is in the nonlinear sales
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cross when you get to be a
bit longer in sale, larger deals and
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they are historically we've all been very
much focused on the hiring good people,
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people then how to sell right,
the art of sale, and what we're
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now seeing is that the lack of
data there is making it difficult to be
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a repeatable process. It's one of
the fundament of reasons behind the life of
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a cro the tenor of the Cerro
and a Peking DC that company. It's
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now sixteen, eighteen months and it's
primarily because they've been unable to forecast that
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business might be going along really well
then hit a tough quarter but not understand
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why. And it's because they haven't
been able to establish what is that.
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That's that repeatable sales process that requires
tital on been marketing products, fild enablement
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and APPS. We have never really
grounded those cross functional discussions and actually what
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happens in the self process, where
your friction is and how you need to
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come together as a team to be
able to overcome non scripting points and enable
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your self process to actecute. We
haven't really been able to do that because
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the data has been lacking. In
and on with your self past. Yeah,
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yeah, we tend to see we
tend to see companies who are trying,
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but it feel like pushing a square
peg in around hope. So and
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what I mean by that is that
we've got people who come and say this
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is the blueprint of my reputable skateable
sales process and the first question we ask
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themselves okay, well, tell us
about the conversion rate. Oh, we
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don't know. It's an agency at
build that for us. So they're coming
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with like a process of saying,
okay, we're going to get the meeting,
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meeting today. Mode they moved to
prove a value. Prove a value
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to contract, contract to close,
you know, to make it very simple,
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right, and I agree with you. I think in the transactional commodity
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type of business enough, you know
you split to someone you want to consult,
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that conversation to a meeting, that
meeting to a proposal, at proposal
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to contract, contract to close,
and of you go see you later.
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That's that's customer success, taken care
of you from now. But when it
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comes a bit complex, I think
we see a lot of organization who are
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coming with a blueprint but they've not
tested it or the blueprint may have been
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written by someone who's that the sens
person. It could be like a product
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marketing person and stuff like that.
So how do you get started? Because
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I get I guess to to have
a repeatable scalable you need to have a
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few cells on the your Bait.
And when you are a newish start up,
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or, let's say even if you've
got like sixty customers, that's say
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you know which is a fifty customers
to take around number. Is that enough
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data? Well, does the data
gathering stock to be relevant for the for
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the repeatable scalboard process. Basically,
is my pastion. You know, it's
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a good question. I mean,
in order to leverage analytics, machine running
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analytics, you need to have,
they would say, IMP size given point.
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Typically you need to have ideally a
hundred fifteen, the two hundred wins
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under your belt. Yeah, if
you have that many wins, then you
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have a correspondingly larger number of lossons. But when you get to that kind
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of point, than machine running technology
can be very acceptive at being much more
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predictive and in a little more of
your passing. Because what what's what's important
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to recognize is that in the revenue
process, we talked about getting the data,
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but what data do we really need
to be able to understand sales process?
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Because everybody starts with their sales process
thinking about the sales teage what happens
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at each stage? Yeah, what
are the criteria to move from stage to
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stage? You've been doing this for
years and it's still very valid, don't
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get me wrong, but I think
it's going to become less valid in the
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sense of looking at sessing the quality
of a deal on a follow we'll explain
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in a minute. That's not to
say that sales processes aren't going away.
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They are there. They're going to
steamer for a long time because they help
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with your on boarding and field enablement
to help develop the skills at each phase.
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But actually now, with the with
machine learning and the data, and
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the data is customer engaged. There's
nothing better to assess the health of a
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deal then called the customer is engaging
with your team. If your value prop
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is resonating, your customer is going
to respond to your team's email. They're
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going to schedule the next meeting,
they're going to look at your attachments,
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they're going to engage with you because
your value prop is resonating. It's worth
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their investment to learn more. And
if you think about a sales process,
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it's really about a series of meetings
and converting to the next week. Your
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building consensus. You're educating your aligning
your value prop to the business outcomes.
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They have to ultimately get to a
point where the decisionmaker is now president and
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a decision can be made. That
could be eight meetings, could be ten
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meetings, could be twenty things.
Depends upon the length of your sales side.
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But in reality what we haven't been
able to get is that level of
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data. How is the customer engaging
with your team? Because if you can
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get that data now, you get
assessed very quickly. When does a customer
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stop engage? When have you potentially
lost that customer? Or your question if
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you understand the sales process relative to
the series of meetings and what are the
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critical meetings? When other people are
brought in, the decision or the influence
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point becomes bigger, or if the
decisionmaker is the cro typically, when does
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the Cerro get engaged? And and
if you understand that level of your sales
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process and you can look at deals
through your in your funnel, as they're
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progressing from from conversion to conversion,
completely differently than what we've done in the
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past. Right, how do we
today assess the health of a deal?
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We interrogate the reat we inspect the
deal. How did the last meeting go?
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That is it is. Is this
deal that qualified? Do they have
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the budget? I know the things
that we've done for years and are relying
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on being able to get the facts
from the red. In some cases the
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REP doesn't know that. The fact
that that next meeting was in schedule of
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actually indicates that you might have,
you might be losing that customer. They
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might be going bold. And so
if you understand what data is and then
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get the data in to be able
to quantitatively, machine learning assisted, be
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able to assess their reveal, that's
game changing. A machine learning quantity the
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way what it's UN deal by deal, as well as your own broth.
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So so I now, having been
doing this for a while, like I
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don't think about fill stayed where.
I look at of fun, I look
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at how many meetings are we is
the next meeting schedule? Watch the engagement
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level with the customer and to me
that's like a different way to look at
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and assess and engage and it's pretty
beachaming. Yeah, you you pretty much
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speaking of US something. As for
me, I we don almost cut it
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pipeline hygiene, because you can see
a lot of deals a lot of conversation
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and we will come across. There's
two types of see get, if I
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think the put opposite. You've got
the very enthusiastic sells get. Oh my
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God, has spoke to talk today. We are the cracking conversation, which
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means we basically I did my presentation
to todd and todd was moving. Is
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that he was smiling at me and
I pick up them. Well, right,
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because and then you've got the opposite, which is the cause. Oh
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my God, yet, no,
no, nothing, nothing is moving,
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nothing in moving. I'm going to
put it out there and I need to
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wait for the prospect to he made
me to say that he wants it to
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for me to be convinced that they
will want it. So I guess the
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pipeline engine has always been the tissue
of okay, is that a real deal,
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and really the role of the of
the sales manager or the CRO to
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really dismantle and ask question, to
get to to basically almost create their own
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story. Right? It supposed doing
the forensic as as a as a CR
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rod to make sure that things are
adding up or not, but I guess
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what you are saying is forget about
that. The painful Monday morning for howers
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meetings with the cells team, where
some people get addressed, done down,
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some people will get the applauds.
You know, forget about. What you
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need to do is to look at
the stages of the meetings. Take it
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in a different manner. Have you
had these three discovery meetings? Is it
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now leading to a business case discussion? What the people coming at the business
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case decision? And basically, so
so I love that. Now I'd like
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to unders a bit more about the
data that needs to be gathered and I
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think I will be also useful for
audience, so that the meetings makes sense
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and kind of taking the process.
So when say what this is, this
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is what the prospect wants, you
know the way you're going to get this
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prospect is young age there and we
put the prospect in the center and we
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actually sell to them based on what
we've established. The need of buying to
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be okay, I get all that, but when it comes to the data,
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I contrully understand the concept. I
see the value, but if I
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wanted to, and maybe that's your
secret. So, so you don't want
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to speak too much about that,
but what data points you need to collect?
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Well, so it much a good
question and have you to talk about
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it. UN So, there's now
technology in that is able to to get
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all that data, because up to
this point I'm the data that is put
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in Crem, which is the database
from which you're assessing, and a deal
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is all dependent upon what the REP
key punches into the system right, and
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crm was never designed to be a
territory management tool for the Rep. it's
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not really a rep tool. It's
a company too. It's a database and
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it's a good work clong, but
typically reps do not like spending time and
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in crm it takes too much time. They'd rather be outselling, and so
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we don't have the date. So
the first thing that is now starting to
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fundamentally change that dynamic is there's technology
that can automatically capture all of the digital
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engagement, not just with the REP, because you want everybody that's touching the
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customer B sc. You'll relay you
as a manager, and so our machine
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learning since in between the CRM system
and your email calendaring system and we'll keep
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track of all of the digital engagement
to and from your customers. Calendars need
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beings, attachments and based upon that
contact being in crm will put that automatically
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into the system with no administrative burn
on the Rep. a couple things.
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What we've learned is that when we
deploy this technology for customers, first of
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all we're typically finding that the most
coverage you have on the context in the
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account record is about thirty percent.
But reps are horrible at adding content which
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is nothing in it, for they'll
put the key the key decisionmakers, but
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there's actually many more people when get
engaged in a decision as certainly many more
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as you get into the longer sales. And so first of all you've got
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to make sure you get all these
all the activities, and so the system,
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or all of the concepts, the
system will identify when a new contact
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gets engaged, new email extreme or
somebody's added to a meeting. will add
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that to the system to be able
to now collect all of the engagement from
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that person as well. But I'll
also prompt the rep to say, Hey,
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who is this person you just started
doing gains? Here's the email,
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give me the name, giving the
title, give me their persona, because
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now you can start to hold it
the rep accountable to a full breath of
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context for marketing to be able to
be much more effective to market by person
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ONA within an account, within an
Adam struck right. And then, once
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I have all the contexts, were
typically adding about ten times the amount of
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data that existed in an opportunity with
this new activity cap. So now I
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have all of the engagement level.
What's going on before the meeting? What
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is the level of engagement? Is
it a healthy engagement? And then,
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given that we're doing so many things
virtual now, the analytics of the meeting
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is now also very possible write the
recording, transcription and analytics of the talk
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tracks more than just the talk time. Who talked, but what were the
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key words and then what's the ihage
been? Actively, I just had a
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customer that I was engaged in yesterday. Here we are at the end of
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the quarter. Actually this conversation to
the quest last week and I have follow
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up to this today, but basically
I was helping him leverage the machine learning
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of is it a healthy deal on
a deal that was supposed to be committed
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this month and I was able to
show him that there has been like one
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engagement in the last three weeks steal. He had been the leading the wrap
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the REP was saying, Yep,
it's on track, it's going to come
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in and I and this system now
has the abilities showing you, like no,
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your reps actually weeks out three times. The customers come back once in
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three weeks. That is not the
sign of a deal that's going to close
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in a week. And so if
you if you can see that graphically,
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you can very quickly identifying the health
of a deal without going through the interrogation.
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The question with the rep now is
completely different. Like you said,
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this is a good deal. You
haven't heard from the customer in three weeks.
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The system is kind of being the
interrogation for you and it's now identifying.
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Call it that, you know my
bs fere. It's hit the meter
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that says I'm suggesting that this deal
is not helpful, and now it's directing
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me, as a manager, to
going needs in a different discussion and so
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getting all the data in and being
able to establish the profile of a winning
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deal and then bench marking every deal
against that profile. That's the game change
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of technology. But the key is
you want to give those insights to the
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REP as well as to the manager, because when the rep starts to see
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how a deal compares. They now
can be more accountable to what in act
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how they're actually presenting the deal.
If I can't defend this feel being in
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the forecast because I haven't heard from
the customer for three weeks, four weeks,
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then I better move it because can't
hide yeah, or I can't hold
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right. Some people hide, some
people are hoping this deal is going to
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commit, and hopes never a strategy
right, and so to a minute,
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certain these eyeek yeah, and it's
so. The reason that the life of
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a Cerro is sixteen, eighteen months
is because there's too much hoping that business
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is going to come in without being
able to look at that through health of
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a funnel statistically. And that's that's
the be changing aspect of this. You
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you can find the deals very quickly
that are on fold or or our hiding,
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whether it's deals that are not very
healthy or deals that are really healthy,
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that are in the upside, because
we also have those keys. We're
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erupted, shinhly engaged, but I
want to hide them when I'm just going
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to keep that one of the upside. Well, systems now will expose all
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of that. So your one on
one discussions are not now interrogations, they
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move to being coaching sessions, which
is what the Rep wants and what we
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want as managers. Not Absolutely,
it absolutely, I think it's yea.
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There is nothing more than also having
someone in your team and you touch on
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it is is kind of creating a
blue print for US ourselves. Right,
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if you've got someone in your temails
that performing and you contactually figure out why
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it's instead of going through series of
questioning and investigating and which is painful for
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you as a manager, painful for
the red because they think that they're being
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you know, drives down in a
way, you could just say well,
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look, this is what we should
do, this is what you've not done,
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this is what the level of interaction
into oven and I think it's it's
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it's a very interesting it does a
one of the thing that we've done with
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we've got a relatively small sells team
and we've established what would like to maybe
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not as scalable and repeatable as we
would want, but, you know,
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a good process in terms of cells, and what we found fundamentally useful is
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to actually, when you recruit someone, to actually tell them this is what
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happened, this is our selves process
right there is nowhere to write, because
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this are the conversion rate out of
the two hundred, let's deals that took
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place. So if you don't have
a twenty percent conduction rate here from there,
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today are it's one of three shows. Okay, you've not done that,
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or the prospect got that, or
we didn't speak to the right person,
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or what the etc. Etc.
Etc. So we've got a little
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narrative as to the how to sort
it and we put that into a cells.
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PLAYBOL. That's and to drastically in
term of addressing but I guess for
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us is relatively straightforward. When you
are much larger company, particularly the company
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as well, getting investments, sixty
million, hundred millions of investment from DC
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and you really need to go quickly
and really acquit a lot of customers and
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you've got sixty serves people across five
different continents going after it is it's it's
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a bit more difficult when you've got
five guys to manage. You know,
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it's every things. I'm much simpler
and you get when you get spire and
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you can really give them the time. So I guess my last question,
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do you really to is what would
you say is the biggest mistake. That
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all mistakes that companies are making when
they try to scale that sells process.
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I think the biggest mistake I see
instead of customed teams are not spending enough
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time on early stage, on our
conversion. I see I get exposed to
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a lot of different analytics in my
current job because I'm I'm consulting with customer
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around there what I refer to as
their advance sales mat these meeting conversions.
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And if you think about the early
stage one, or you think about we
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went, your win rate is hias. As a team in midtle weak state,
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we as managers to can to spend
most of our time on mint to
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late stage because those are the deals
that are going to make the months,
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going to make poor and we rely
on enable mental marketing to kind of helped
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with or we assume that reps know
how to qualify and discover. In reality,
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if you can improve your conversion rates
in the in the qualification and discovery
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section and ten percent get more deals
into the mentally stage of the funnel where
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your team actually executes the best highest
conversion rates, it has significant throughput impact
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and I find too many customers are
not spending enough time on what really happens
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in the qualification and discovery, because
you're always selling qualification discover it's not just
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about asking that the five or six
questions they have budget and we talk with
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the right guy, which the digity. Whatever your qualification process, you have
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to be selling. Again, think
back to meeting conversions as I'm trying to
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get my information to qualify and assessed. That's a good opportunity. I also
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want to make sure that I'm selling
to get the customer to want to learn
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more. Yeah, right. I
find customers just don't spend enough time on
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developing those skills that can have significant
impact. Do the throughput later, speak
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when when your team typically has its
highest win rates. And you know,
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I completely agree with that statement.
I think it's sometimes you almost feel like
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it's a dug bocking. He's on
day and it's sometimes being a prisoner like
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in the jail of of that's on
paper, repeatable, scalable process that we
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don't know if it's repeatable and scalable, but someone writes it down. So
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this is what we should do.
And we've got customers who are you know,
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we've got different customers, obviously,
and some technology are not distructive than
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other and most of our customer worth
distructive technology on the stone. The need
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for education, because it's an eventualist
play and you've got to go and get
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get the kapex right. Yeah,
but some of the other work, maybe
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a bit more commodity or whether category
is growing and maturing. You know,
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it's they want to black and white
stuff. You know we we deN'tiver an
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opportunity to them, and that okay. Yeah, well, what's good meeting,
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but no opportunity and you can have
okay. So what do you do
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with it? Because, you know, I spoke to talk today. It
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was like, look, I've got
some of our stuff to do. This
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is very interesting, but if I'm
speaking to an organization with Fivezero people,
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should not just try to go a
little bit more it? Study, only
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get will make the decision. How
many stuff are being both nowadays with just
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one person engage in the sells process? Not a lot, right, not
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a lot at all. And I
think, I think I'd completely agree with
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you. There is a stage of
saying I think there is a stage of
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creating the demand rather than qualifying the
demands, and there is. If we
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were to work that way, I
think we educate prospect better, I think
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we will be in a bit more
of a challenge ourselves type of position.
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I think we will get prospect to
think or rethink we and we would probably
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and that's what we do for ourselves. You know, we are setting pipelines.
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You know, none of our clients
before starts signing a contract with operatics.
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None of them have nothing from a
Piper generation perspective. In fact,
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most of them have something all right. So most of the time when we
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speak to them, the sun and
not interested. I've got something in place.
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So we actually tell them that in
the process of trying to get that
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meeting with them. So we know
that you've got something in place. We
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know that you would have budget now, but we believe that we could bring
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something, that I can help you
to add to the scale that you are
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creating at to the acceleration. Okay, and people take the conversation because you
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know, we've got a way of
doing in that is interesting, and then
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through that conversation you then realize all
the issues, when you let them speak,
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that they are facing with the current
set up. Yeah, you that
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you probus like a doctor depended the
end, and we want to just qualify
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them. God would speak to no
one, we would have no meetings like
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because everybody's got something and nobody's got
budget particularly resture. And did you know?
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It's a good point. I think
you need to recognize where is your
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solution and that on the product market, its scale, the women are you
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in the lead identification stage of a
business or in the lead generation, that
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demand generation? And I feel with
a little bit of that in my business
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in the sense that our platform is
very broad and and people aren't out there
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looking for a revenue intelligence platform who
cansolidate analytics, and so I'm in the
355
00:26:23.289 --> 00:26:30.529
business of identifying what is the demand
or the lead identification elements of my business,
356
00:26:30.529 --> 00:26:34.279
and it's typically forecast. People are
looking for forecasting solutions, and so
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I have to lead identify people that
are looking for help and forecasting and then,
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00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:44.279
once I get them in, I
have to then now generate demand for
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00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:48.390
a different buying criteria, for a
different set of analytics schools that they might
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00:26:48.430 --> 00:26:53.390
not have been or work typically looking
for. So in some businesses your solution
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00:26:53.789 --> 00:26:57.829
is as reached that product mark a
bit. It's a known demand in the
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00:26:57.869 --> 00:27:03.500
market and you're in the lead identification
state. which is a totally different business
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00:27:03.180 --> 00:27:08.259
than in the demand generation to educate
a mark right. So knowing where you
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00:27:08.339 --> 00:27:15.380
are on that scale fundamentally drives a
different marketing strategy in getting customers in the
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00:27:15.420 --> 00:27:19.089
door. And then how what's the
playbook? Who address the immediate need and
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00:27:19.170 --> 00:27:27.569
expand or to educate to totally different
ends of the Specter right? Yeah,
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that makes perfect sense to well,
thanks for that. Thanks for sharing your
368
00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:38.960
insight with us today. If anyone
wants to connect with you to discuss how
369
00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:42.279
they can make that service process more
skate whatever more repeat it world or on
370
00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:45.990
theos. Know about insight. SQUIL
was the best way to get toe of
371
00:27:47.069 --> 00:27:53.910
you. You can email need directly
at t abbots Tabbott at insights werecom or
372
00:27:55.470 --> 00:27:59.500
hitting up on Linkedin. Happy you'll
needs with anybody that wants to fork you
373
00:27:59.619 --> 00:28:03.019
dispur that's one off where. Thank
you again for your time today. Tod
374
00:28:03.220 --> 00:28:08.500
was absolutely fantastic. Togy on the
shore. I enjoyed the time. operatics
375
00:28:08.619 --> 00:28:15.930
has redefined the meaning of revenue generation
for technology companies worldwide. While the traditional
376
00:28:15.130 --> 00:28:21.210
concepts of building and managing inside sales
teams inhouse has existed for many years,
377
00:28:21.650 --> 00:28:26.930
companies are struggling with a lack of
focus, agility and scale required in today's
378
00:28:26.049 --> 00:28:33.079
fast and complex world of enterprise technology
sales. See How operatics can help your
379
00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:40.039
company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet.
You've been listening to be tob revenue acceleration.
380
00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:42.829
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