Episode Transcript
WEBVTT
1
00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:07.549
You were listening to be tob revenue
acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping software
2
00:00:07.589 --> 00:00:11.789
executives stay on the cutting edge of
sales and marketing in their industry. Let's
3
00:00:11.789 --> 00:00:16.910
get into the show. Hi,
welcome to beat be revenue acceleration. My
4
00:00:16.910 --> 00:00:20.309
name is Dan Steve Brook and I'm
hit to day with Mike Simmons, cur
5
00:00:20.589 --> 00:00:23.539
side safe, I might. How
are you be DA, and I'm doing
6
00:00:23.579 --> 00:00:26.500
great. And how are you?
Yeah, I'm good. Thank you very
7
00:00:26.579 --> 00:00:30.660
good. Cool. So some Mike, Thanks for joining us today. The
8
00:00:30.980 --> 00:00:35.850
the main topic for today's conversation is
around the Acron in that you've develop the
9
00:00:35.969 --> 00:00:41.729
specific topics actually dare to grow,
establishing alignment across rednue teams. We'll dive
10
00:00:41.770 --> 00:00:46.729
into that and your acronym and that
you've developed shortly, but before we do
11
00:00:46.890 --> 00:00:49.729
that, can you just give us
a bit of background on itself, as
12
00:00:49.810 --> 00:00:53.640
well as your company side safe.
Yeah, so I'm I'm based in the
13
00:00:53.679 --> 00:01:02.399
states, background in operations what in
the past would have been called account management
14
00:01:02.439 --> 00:01:07.150
or implementation success and today now would
be more customer success. To spend some
15
00:01:07.230 --> 00:01:15.269
time as an individual contributor and the
sales side have then had an opportunity to
16
00:01:15.269 --> 00:01:22.099
lead sales teams and build sales teams
and I've recently joined side safe as a
17
00:01:22.219 --> 00:01:27.299
Crero here in January. So I'm
just coming out of my first days and
18
00:01:27.340 --> 00:01:32.019
side of new Yorkization, which is
always a always an interesting and fun time
19
00:01:32.140 --> 00:01:37.849
period. Cool. Yeah, absolutely, and and Interem of your company subject.
20
00:01:37.930 --> 00:01:42.170
So what exactly you do? Yes, we're British cyber security and data
21
00:01:42.250 --> 00:01:49.560
analytics company. Are Primary focuses on
reducing ambiguity when it comes to human cyber
22
00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:53.400
risk, and that's both at an
individual level, so what people know,
23
00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:59.640
what what people do, how people
think, and then at an organization level,
24
00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:04.469
how the organize it? What what's
known across the organization? What kind
25
00:02:04.510 --> 00:02:08.349
of behaviors for seeing across the organization
and how is the organization think as it
26
00:02:08.430 --> 00:02:17.099
relates to security? Our software helps
to D risk. Organizations are reduced risk
27
00:02:17.139 --> 00:02:25.099
and organizations by working leveraging behavioral science
to help change behavior over time. And
28
00:02:25.939 --> 00:02:31.009
on the data side we improve insight. Were addressing the cyber security challenge from
29
00:02:31.009 --> 00:02:36.370
a human perspective, which is a
really, really important focus. Yeah,
30
00:02:36.689 --> 00:02:39.650
it is, and I think this
the two facets to that from. From
31
00:02:39.729 --> 00:02:45.840
my perspective, one facet is just
a general lack of awareness, the lack
32
00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:50.840
of cyber awareness at the at the
non technical employee level. I'm going a
33
00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:53.879
friend network for this God who's saying
to me that he's constantly getting, you
34
00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:59.990
know, fishing eglou and officing emails
that company scent fishing emo almost the trick
35
00:03:00.069 --> 00:03:04.110
the employeed into clicking on them too
as part of that training. There's that
36
00:03:04.189 --> 00:03:06.229
side of it. But then as
the other side of it, which is
37
00:03:06.310 --> 00:03:10.110
a still shortage within the CIDER department, which is which is another with it,
38
00:03:10.310 --> 00:03:15.740
another issue to the lot of cyber
departments are facing and just the industry
39
00:03:15.780 --> 00:03:17.939
is as an old thing to be
faced. To be honest, that's a
40
00:03:19.219 --> 00:03:23.620
it's a it's an interesting and evolving
threat that will continue to change and,
41
00:03:23.379 --> 00:03:27.409
you know, I think there's a
there's a lot that we can do be
42
00:03:27.770 --> 00:03:31.210
be doing a bit differently, and
that's by one. I'm excited about being
43
00:03:31.250 --> 00:03:35.330
a part of the industry and excited
about what we're doing in the space.
44
00:03:35.330 --> 00:03:38.449
Yeah, and I think you know, humans are humans. Right. There's,
45
00:03:38.650 --> 00:03:43.159
as always, that the products that
can be put in place to solve
46
00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:46.840
challenged, but the reality of humans
have emotions in there. That one momentary
47
00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:52.000
lapse of concentration can be the biggest
issue in a in an organization. Just
48
00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:54.159
think about what we run into with
our sales teams. Like we all know,
49
00:03:54.240 --> 00:04:00.629
we train teams. They know what
they should be doing. Yet you
50
00:04:00.710 --> 00:04:04.069
get into a situation where someone asks
a question, you're under a high stress,
51
00:04:04.229 --> 00:04:08.229
you share a bit of information or
you jump out a couple of steps
52
00:04:08.270 --> 00:04:12.099
ahead. It's not that you didn't
know what to do, it's that the
53
00:04:12.580 --> 00:04:16.259
the operating environment that you were working
in created a scenario where you didn't do
54
00:04:17.420 --> 00:04:23.500
the right thing. And anything we
can do to help help people slow things
55
00:04:23.579 --> 00:04:27.930
down, both the other through what
they know or just general wearing a support's
56
00:04:27.930 --> 00:04:30.810
happening around them, can help.
And I think that applies not only in
57
00:04:31.610 --> 00:04:36.930
security but also on the sale side. And to your point, humans or
58
00:04:36.970 --> 00:04:42.759
humans, whether we're talking about Guian
and fitness or we're talking about sales behavior,
59
00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:46.240
we're talking about security behavior, that
behavior a piece. Follow us all
60
00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:51.240
the way through. Yeah, and
actually that's a that's probably a nice segue
61
00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:56.149
into diving, you know, more
into the conversation that we're going to have
62
00:04:56.230 --> 00:05:00.589
today. So mentioned about humans,
whether it being in the south side where
63
00:05:00.589 --> 00:05:03.910
the security started doing the right thing
and I think you've been a big proponent
64
00:05:03.949 --> 00:05:11.019
in your past career around helping teams
align, helping teams work together to go
65
00:05:11.300 --> 00:05:15.699
to do the right things and and
and obviously move businesses in the right direction.
66
00:05:15.740 --> 00:05:18.980
I always think about it. I
think it was a it was a
67
00:05:18.980 --> 00:05:23.689
quote by Daniel Pink which is about
he was saying. You know, you
68
00:05:23.810 --> 00:05:26.970
want to get the right people on
the bus, then you want to get
69
00:05:26.970 --> 00:05:29.370
those people facing in the right direction, then you want to get the bus
70
00:05:29.410 --> 00:05:32.250
driving in the right direction. And
and I guess that's a lot about what
71
00:05:32.649 --> 00:05:38.160
your kind of methodology and a background
being around. More specifically, my understanding
72
00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:42.879
is that you over the years of
developed an acronym which is there, so
73
00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:48.879
dare so could you, can you
explain more about that? I don't know
74
00:05:48.920 --> 00:05:53.709
if an acronym is doing a disturvice
or whether it's a methodology. We can
75
00:05:53.790 --> 00:05:57.589
you give us some some background on
that and and what the you know what
76
00:05:57.670 --> 00:06:00.670
impacts that have in the importance to
have them seams being able to work to
77
00:06:00.750 --> 00:06:04.740
get it towards an objective. It's
one of those things were you just kind
78
00:06:04.779 --> 00:06:09.939
of stumble upon it when you're writing
things up on a whiteboard and you realized,
79
00:06:09.980 --> 00:06:15.620
wow, the the the makeup of
the team actually spells a word.
80
00:06:15.899 --> 00:06:19.050
And so the focus here is demand. So what are we doing to generate
81
00:06:19.170 --> 00:06:23.810
demand in the marketplace? From maybe
a one too many, a one to
82
00:06:23.970 --> 00:06:29.889
one, leveraging channel partners. So
demand is the first first letter, and
83
00:06:29.970 --> 00:06:33.360
then in the middle of we acquisition. And if we're not for not acquiring
84
00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:40.040
customers, we're not going to be
in business very long any business out there,
85
00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:45.480
unless you're going to be going down
the constantly funded route, and even
86
00:06:45.519 --> 00:06:47.589
then, in order to get funding
you need to be able to demonstrate an
87
00:06:47.589 --> 00:06:54.509
ability to acquire acquire customers. So
demand is the first category. Acquisition is
88
00:06:54.750 --> 00:06:59.149
where money comes into the organization,
and then we move into retention and expansion.
89
00:06:59.829 --> 00:07:04.019
So how do we how do we
make sure that we keep those customers
90
00:07:04.060 --> 00:07:10.579
that we bring on board? And
one way that I found throughout my career
91
00:07:10.740 --> 00:07:15.170
to keep customers is to have them
expand. And it's rare that an organization
92
00:07:15.250 --> 00:07:21.490
that you're working with turns if you're
expanding the things that you're doing inside the
93
00:07:21.529 --> 00:07:27.050
organization, whether that's delivering additional products
and services inside the organization or increasing the
94
00:07:27.129 --> 00:07:30.439
scope of the audience that you're reaching
out to. And I was on a
95
00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:36.720
video conversation with a member of the
team and is were were. These are
96
00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:42.199
three buckets that we've been focused on
for years. The acronym just kind of
97
00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:45.269
popped out. So we started saying, okay, how do we make this
98
00:07:45.310 --> 00:07:47.750
a little bit more simple, how
does it become more clear across the organization
99
00:07:47.870 --> 00:07:55.709
what we're doing? And there's where
the day or to expand and grow came
100
00:07:55.750 --> 00:08:00.620
from. So demand acquisition, retention
and expansion. Traditionally speaking, a lot
101
00:08:00.660 --> 00:08:05.019
of organizations would look at this as
marketing, sales and success or account management.
102
00:08:07.660 --> 00:08:11.100
There's a lot of bias that comes
with some of those words and some
103
00:08:11.180 --> 00:08:16.250
misalignment that comes with some of those
words. So we've been very deliberate,
104
00:08:16.290 --> 00:08:20.889
or I've been very deliberate, in
focusing on demand, acquisition, retention and
105
00:08:20.970 --> 00:08:26.089
expansion. Okay, okay, cool. And you mentioned about those three those
106
00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:31.199
three teams, three departments working working
typically, as part of that process,
107
00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:35.919
a set of mopping and customer success
or operations or a comrade and whatever excluded
108
00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:41.269
in a given organization. But in
terms of getting those teams to buy into
109
00:08:41.950 --> 00:08:45.909
go work to get a I mean, how do you when do you start
110
00:08:45.990 --> 00:08:52.789
with that? I think the the
first place to start is clarity around what
111
00:08:52.990 --> 00:08:58.179
it what it is is that were
trying to do and why we're trying to
112
00:08:58.299 --> 00:09:01.940
do it, and then who were
trying to do it for, and that's
113
00:09:01.019 --> 00:09:05.659
more on the business side. So
what do we do? Why do we
114
00:09:05.779 --> 00:09:09.610
do it? Who Do we impact? And then, flipping that Lens around
115
00:09:09.610 --> 00:09:16.409
and looking at it from customers perspective, what problems do they have? Who
116
00:09:16.450 --> 00:09:22.690
Cares about those problems and why do
folks care about those problems? And if
117
00:09:22.690 --> 00:09:28.759
we understand the WHO, what why
from both perspectives, we can then start
118
00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:33.840
to identify patterns inside there and see
where those dots start to connect. We
119
00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:41.789
can connect those dots, we can
create better alignment between inside our organization and
120
00:09:41.909 --> 00:09:46.990
the interactions that we have with customers
and ultimately reduce friction as we look at
121
00:09:48.029 --> 00:09:54.340
ways to help solve those problems inside
organizations and ultimately grow. So that's that's
122
00:09:54.419 --> 00:09:58.659
one perspective. What why? Who? Or what? Who? Why,
123
00:09:58.779 --> 00:10:03.740
depending on which, which which Lens
we're looking through the other side, I
124
00:10:05.179 --> 00:10:07.809
think is really important. A common
mistake that organizations make, as we tend
125
00:10:07.809 --> 00:10:11.529
to overcomplicate a lot of the work
that we do. We come up with
126
00:10:11.570 --> 00:10:16.929
our own jargon, we have our
own set of processes. We try to
127
00:10:18.009 --> 00:10:24.279
apply those processes both across the business, inside the organization, across teams and
128
00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:28.080
over to our customers, and we
forget that there's multiple perspectives that we're looking
129
00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:33.080
at here. Those perspectives are the
customer, what they're going through the business,
130
00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:37.350
but the business is doing, whether
it's from a forecasting perspective or just
131
00:10:37.470 --> 00:10:43.789
a general execution perspective, and then
the wrap the the person who's actually engaged
132
00:10:43.950 --> 00:10:48.110
with the organization day to day.
So we can simplify if we if we
133
00:10:48.190 --> 00:10:52.059
can be clear about our perspective,
which lends we're looking at the problem through.
134
00:10:52.460 --> 00:11:00.419
We can be clear about our perspective
around the area focus inside the business,
135
00:11:00.580 --> 00:11:03.529
and then we can simplify the tools
and processes we apply. We can
136
00:11:03.649 --> 00:11:11.610
create better alignment across all of those
teams and more consistency rather than talking past
137
00:11:11.690 --> 00:11:18.049
each other where in one instance we're
calling something, and I'm struggling to find
138
00:11:18.049 --> 00:11:20.879
a word here, but one instant
area I might be calling this a marker
139
00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.159
that I'm holding in my hand,
an Xbo mark or a dry race marker
140
00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:28.440
and then in another instance, I'm
someone's calling it a pen for a whiteboard
141
00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:33.230
and then another instance somebody's calling it
something to write with. We are talking
142
00:11:33.230 --> 00:11:37.669
about the same thing, but we're
talking past each other. We're creating confusion,
143
00:11:37.710 --> 00:11:43.269
we're creating a misalignment that creates potential
friction and create some challenges inside the
144
00:11:43.309 --> 00:11:48.460
organization. It's about understanding perspective,
applying tools and really working to keep things
145
00:11:48.460 --> 00:11:54.779
simple. Yeah, yeah, now
that that's very interesting and and I think
146
00:11:54.820 --> 00:11:58.779
the point you mentioned are around simplicity, just not over complicating things. Using
147
00:11:58.899 --> 00:12:03.690
simple language, using consistent language with
within Your Business and with your customers is
148
00:12:03.730 --> 00:12:07.970
really important. We see it in
our business, where service business. We
149
00:12:09.409 --> 00:12:15.759
are in the business of supporting our
customers to generate opportunity, Opportunity, pipeline
150
00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:18.600
revenue. But it's super important at
the outset that we all have a clear,
151
00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:24.000
clear understanding with we're singing from the
same in cheap as to what is
152
00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:26.679
an opportunity what? How do you
define a pipeline opportunity? How do you
153
00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:31.429
define revenues? Are Fairly straightforward one. But you know what is. What
154
00:12:31.870 --> 00:12:35.750
does a first meeting look like?
Because you know we could get three months
155
00:12:35.750 --> 00:12:39.110
into an engagement and think we're doing
a great job. Our customer has a
156
00:12:39.149 --> 00:12:43.950
very different perception as to as to
have successful our our program if, if
157
00:12:43.029 --> 00:12:46.379
we don't have that alignment, and
that's one of the things are not as
158
00:12:46.779 --> 00:12:50.259
in our set of protest is by
customers. And it's a good question.
159
00:12:50.460 --> 00:12:54.860
You know, in programs that are
unsuccessful, where does it go wrong?
160
00:12:54.940 --> 00:12:58.129
And one of the first or the
first thing I always say, is lack
161
00:12:58.210 --> 00:13:05.090
of clarity or or or disconnect around
the language we're using and what the expectations
162
00:13:05.169 --> 00:13:09.690
are on and what both parties see
as a successful outcome and, in your
163
00:13:09.730 --> 00:13:16.679
view, to get teams to work
in alignment. Do you feel that that
164
00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:20.600
that as a CR Ro let's stay, because in a lot of business is
165
00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:28.389
crowds have responsibility for sales, marketing, account management, customer success. In
166
00:13:28.549 --> 00:13:31.509
some instance it Presales as well.
Right, they can have overside. I
167
00:13:31.629 --> 00:13:33.870
Rove Bath. It's other businesses you've
got to VP SES, you've got a
168
00:13:33.909 --> 00:13:39.070
CMO, you've got a VP of
customer success. In your view and in
169
00:13:39.149 --> 00:13:45.100
your experience, where do you see
it being? Is Is it as black
170
00:13:45.139 --> 00:13:46.179
and white saying well, if you've
got to crow, let's say, the
171
00:13:46.220 --> 00:13:50.299
overseas, your functions, it's easier
to get alignment and then if you have
172
00:13:50.779 --> 00:13:54.340
vp for different for different functions,
or is it more a case of getting,
173
00:13:54.809 --> 00:13:58.009
you know, the right tools in
place, the right language, the
174
00:13:58.129 --> 00:14:03.129
right processes, and actually it doesn't
matter how you struct Your Business? I
175
00:14:03.210 --> 00:14:09.600
think it's a tough question because there
are organizations who will not, who will
176
00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:13.279
use a structure different than the structure
that we use. Its side safe and
177
00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:18.600
they will create a high level of
alignment because they pulled together the right people
178
00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:22.240
on the bus. They've got the
bus going in the right direction and everybody
179
00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:24.470
knows that they're actually on a bus. Sometimes people wonder if there are on
180
00:14:24.509 --> 00:14:28.629
a bus or out there on an
airplane, and in those instances you can
181
00:14:28.750 --> 00:14:33.750
create a high level of alignment where
you have high performing teams working really well
182
00:14:33.870 --> 00:14:39.659
together. In another way that you
can do it is you can build the
183
00:14:39.779 --> 00:14:45.059
team together from the beginning, and
whether one way is better than the other,
184
00:14:45.139 --> 00:14:50.179
I am sure there are more opinions
than there are people out there who
185
00:14:50.340 --> 00:14:54.250
do this stuff that would be able
to say this is why you should do
186
00:14:54.250 --> 00:14:56.210
it this way or this is why
you should do it that way inside our
187
00:14:56.210 --> 00:15:01.169
organization, we chose to go the
route of let's bring everything into the the
188
00:15:01.649 --> 00:15:09.039
revenue umbrella or underneath this revenue umbrella, because it's it really important for us
189
00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:13.159
to be able to support customers from
the point where they don't even know that
190
00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:16.639
we exist to the point where they
are so excited and they're going to shout
191
00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:20.720
from the rooftops that this is the
most amazing solution in the entire world and
192
00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:24.789
it's helped us solve problems. And
if we're all part of the same team
193
00:15:24.909 --> 00:15:30.990
that they're working with throughout that process, we should reduce friction around some of
194
00:15:31.070 --> 00:15:37.620
the conversion points that happen when they
move from prospect to customer to growing customer,
195
00:15:37.980 --> 00:15:43.820
because the people inside the organization that
they're interacting with may change, will
196
00:15:43.860 --> 00:15:46.860
change. Likely change is we continue
to specialize. The thing that doesn't change
197
00:15:46.940 --> 00:15:50.769
is the brand that they're working with, the technology that they're working with,
198
00:15:50.809 --> 00:15:52.450
the tools that they're working with on
our end, and the other thing that
199
00:15:52.529 --> 00:15:56.450
doesn't changes them. They're still the
same company. Now, even on their
200
00:15:56.490 --> 00:15:58.169
side, the people might change a
little bit, but we've gone this route
201
00:15:58.169 --> 00:16:04.799
because we want to create a an
experience that allows for a high level of
202
00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:11.159
alignment, reduced ambiguity across the entire
across the entire team. Could we have
203
00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:14.960
done it another way? Absolutely.
Might we do it another way as we
204
00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:19.549
go forward. Sure, their their
number, a number of different ways to
205
00:16:22.029 --> 00:16:25.789
get me in trouble with Peter,
but there's number of different ways to skin
206
00:16:25.870 --> 00:16:30.470
a cat. As we go through
this will figure out the best way,
207
00:16:30.509 --> 00:16:33.860
in the right way, and this
is the direction that we've chosen at the
208
00:16:33.980 --> 00:16:37.500
moment as we focus on the revenue
side of the organization and then communicate with
209
00:16:37.620 --> 00:16:41.620
the rest of the organization. So
this is where it's not only alignement across
210
00:16:41.659 --> 00:16:45.259
our team, it's a linement across
the organization, a line of wing across
211
00:16:45.340 --> 00:16:48.889
the customer base and then ideally seeing
all of those pieces kind of come together.
212
00:16:49.490 --> 00:16:52.529
So you can do it either you
could do it either way. This
213
00:16:52.649 --> 00:16:56.850
is the way that we chose to
go. Okay, okay, and you
214
00:16:56.970 --> 00:17:00.330
see, we spoke a bit about
there where you know how where to start
215
00:17:00.409 --> 00:17:03.320
when when it comes to trying to
drive a line and between different teams,
216
00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:07.920
and you spoke about the fact in
your business you probably under that revenue number
217
00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:11.400
which which you if in one is
something happened more and more. You know,
218
00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:14.559
crows, a job title of just
a few years ago, just not
219
00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:18.190
around. It was bbcales, CMO. More and more often now that there's
220
00:17:18.230 --> 00:17:22.750
some kind of dotted line between from
marketing into into revenue, and yeah,
221
00:17:22.750 --> 00:17:26.230
I'm absolutely seen that. And then, and you know, you're seeing more
222
00:17:26.309 --> 00:17:32.740
more phrases broke and revenue as well, and so it's constantly evolving spectrum,
223
00:17:32.740 --> 00:17:36.019
I guess. And on the other
side of the fence, if we look
224
00:17:36.059 --> 00:17:38.859
at the less positive side of thing, in your experience, where there's a
225
00:17:38.900 --> 00:17:45.049
linement typically actually fail to happen.
I think the biggest challenge with the Lineman
226
00:17:45.130 --> 00:17:52.089
is when people start operating from the
perspective of driving their own personal agendas.
227
00:17:52.849 --> 00:17:59.079
So you can get in one of
those instances where you talk about the organizations
228
00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:03.240
being separate. I do is inside
one of those organizations a number of years
229
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:07.920
back we actually had a marketing team
that had goals that did not align with
230
00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:11.359
what we were doing from a b
tob sales side of things. They had
231
00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:19.509
they had be TOC objectives, individual
consumer objectives. So given that there they
232
00:18:19.589 --> 00:18:23.230
had individual consumer objectives, how much
time do you think was applied to the
233
00:18:23.349 --> 00:18:26.460
B tob side of the equation.
Now, the B Tob side of the
234
00:18:26.500 --> 00:18:33.539
equation was the side that was growing, growing quickly inside the organization. We
235
00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:38.779
felt in that operating environment unsupported.
And Yeah, here I am a sales
236
00:18:38.819 --> 00:18:44.250
guy whining about not getting support from
marketing team. But that's where you've run
237
00:18:44.329 --> 00:18:48.170
into some you run into some challenges
inside organizations is if you have goals and
238
00:18:48.329 --> 00:18:53.490
objectives inside the organization that are not
aligned with each other, whereas if you
239
00:18:53.569 --> 00:18:57.240
can shift that, and you can, everybody can kind of see how we're
240
00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:02.920
working toward the primary aim. We
talked a little bit about it earlier,
241
00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:06.799
reducing ambiguity as it relates to human
side at risk. That's an objective for
242
00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:10.190
the organization. We're all lying that. We have different ways that we go
243
00:19:10.309 --> 00:19:15.109
about doing it. So, yeah, where it goes bad is when,
244
00:19:15.150 --> 00:19:19.750
whether it's individuals or teams inside organizations
allow their own agenda to get in front
245
00:19:19.789 --> 00:19:26.859
of the objectives of the business and
when those agendas are misaligned with each other,
246
00:19:27.059 --> 00:19:34.700
meaning someone has goals that do not
necessarily align with the with other goals
247
00:19:34.740 --> 00:19:37.609
inside the team. So agender's a
big one. The other one that I
248
00:19:37.690 --> 00:19:41.250
think is really important we talked a
little bit about this, but it's language,
249
00:19:41.250 --> 00:19:45.289
it's vocabulary. How can we use
a consistent vocabulary, especially as we
250
00:19:45.410 --> 00:19:51.970
work across multiple countries and multiple cultures? You know, one of the challenges
251
00:19:52.009 --> 00:19:56.400
I run into is I use football
analogies. Well, I use American football
252
00:19:56.440 --> 00:20:02.200
analogies, not British premier football analogies, and then I start using words like
253
00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:06.519
soccer and people roll their eyes.
So there's a there's a gap that you
254
00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:11.789
have from a language perspective and that's
another area where we can create misalignment and
255
00:20:11.869 --> 00:20:15.150
some confusion. Now those are a
little bit easier to overcome and once you
256
00:20:15.190 --> 00:20:21.269
overcome them things start to accelerate.
But think it's personal agendas, team agendas
257
00:20:21.430 --> 00:20:26.500
and vocabulary create a lot of challenge
in alignment and that ultimately will create more
258
00:20:26.619 --> 00:20:30.900
friction inside the business and we'll start
to slow down growth. Yeah, absolutely.
259
00:20:30.980 --> 00:20:36.049
I mean a very tactical example of
that in terms of that misalignment.
260
00:20:36.089 --> 00:20:40.849
And you know your dom put around
marketing being more Drin by be to see
261
00:20:41.009 --> 00:20:44.250
so more having success on the beach
beside. We see it. See it
262
00:20:44.289 --> 00:20:49.960
all the toddment organizations where marting maybe
a compensate to them focused focused on either
263
00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:53.960
an mql, as in, you
know, a marketing lead, or based
264
00:20:55.119 --> 00:21:00.359
on, you know, impressions or
based on whatever it there's something really at
265
00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:04.430
the top of the funnel where sales
and and the whole business care about revenue
266
00:21:04.470 --> 00:21:11.710
and even pipeline. Right thankfully,
I'm seeing more and more organization Folkus marketing
267
00:21:11.750 --> 00:21:15.390
on a pipeline number or revenue number, which is which is a much more
268
00:21:15.509 --> 00:21:21.380
meaningful metric to track. But we
still see it right where marketing teams want
269
00:21:21.380 --> 00:21:25.180
to go to trade shows because they
know that they're going to get a thousand
270
00:21:25.220 --> 00:21:27.819
leads from that trade show or they
want to run a Webinar because they know
271
00:21:27.900 --> 00:21:30.619
that they're going to get a thousand
leads from that. Women are be in
272
00:21:30.700 --> 00:21:33.369
reality, are half those people sat
in their bedrooms and, you know,
273
00:21:33.730 --> 00:21:38.130
just just wanting to know more about
the solution? So it's their historically,
274
00:21:38.170 --> 00:21:41.009
there has been a massive disconnector,
I think, in how marting have been
275
00:21:41.250 --> 00:21:45.170
focused themselves have been focused. Thankfully, it seems to be be reducing.
276
00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:49.480
One of the reasons for that historically, I think, has been around compensation,
277
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:53.359
which is probably the biggest, biggest
driver in a lot of instances.
278
00:21:53.720 --> 00:21:57.960
How can people selfishly earn more money. And so when you spoke about that
279
00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:03.750
misalignment, who do you think is
to blame for that? Do you do
280
00:22:03.789 --> 00:22:06.789
you feel that you know, let's
say you've got a marketing leader and a
281
00:22:06.869 --> 00:22:10.829
sales leader in an organization and the
CEO or the CFO at the top have
282
00:22:10.950 --> 00:22:15.069
been responsible for putting together compensation plan? Do you feel it's a simpler saying
283
00:22:15.109 --> 00:22:18.740
well, you put together the wrong
commission bland guys and that's driven the wrong
284
00:22:18.779 --> 00:22:22.779
behavior, or do you think there's
a little bit more complexity to it than
285
00:22:22.859 --> 00:22:25.900
that? Yeah, I think there's
a little bit more complexity to it.
286
00:22:26.299 --> 00:22:32.250
These are these are leadership problems inside
organizations and we create them as leaders inside
287
00:22:32.250 --> 00:22:36.609
organizations. The reason we create them
is because of a lack of clarity,
288
00:22:36.650 --> 00:22:45.000
lack of clarity and lack of focus
and helping helping people inside the team maintain
289
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:49.759
a level of focus, and that, to me comes down to decisionmaking.
290
00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:55.640
So when choice comes up, when
something new and shiny comes up in front,
291
00:22:56.039 --> 00:22:59.509
do I start working on that new
and shiny thing or do I pause
292
00:22:59.630 --> 00:23:02.829
before I start working on it and
say, how does this actually aligned with
293
00:23:02.910 --> 00:23:06.869
the thing? My ultimate aim within
the organization and if it doesn't align within
294
00:23:07.029 --> 00:23:10.549
my ultimate aim inside the organization,
should I really do it? Well,
295
00:23:10.630 --> 00:23:15.859
if it can help drive the broader
objective, maybe I should, or maybe
296
00:23:15.900 --> 00:23:19.099
I should, maybe, maybe I
should do it at some point in the
297
00:23:19.180 --> 00:23:25.819
future. If it doesn't align with
the ultimate objective, then I absolutely shouldn't
298
00:23:25.819 --> 00:23:26.930
do it. I should put it
off to the side and maybe we have
299
00:23:27.049 --> 00:23:32.930
a conversation around it. I think
this is it's a leadership challenge inside organization
300
00:23:33.650 --> 00:23:41.410
where leaders get distracted by the thing
that's happening inside the market. So we
301
00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:44.640
a lot of it comes into the
we need to do this. So we
302
00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:48.039
need to do x, Y Orz, whatever, whatever the we need to
303
00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:52.519
do more events, we need to
spend more on ads, we need to
304
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:56.430
well, as leaders inside the organization, we've got to ask the question why.
305
00:23:56.470 --> 00:24:00.589
Why do we need to do it? What's the actual impact going to
306
00:24:00.670 --> 00:24:04.750
be inside the organization? How will
that connect directly to the things were trying
307
00:24:04.789 --> 00:24:08.390
to drive, whether it's reducing ambiguity
or driving revenue? If it's if it's
308
00:24:08.470 --> 00:24:12.140
doesn't align with each of the either
of those things, do we really need
309
00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:15.819
to do it? Or is it
some shiny thing that we're bringing into the
310
00:24:15.900 --> 00:24:19.019
organization just because we saw somebody else
do it, because they've decided to go
311
00:24:19.700 --> 00:24:23.529
down this down this path. So
I think it's this is a leadership challenge
312
00:24:23.569 --> 00:24:32.009
that gets created inside organizations. A
lot of times it's driven by lack of
313
00:24:32.049 --> 00:24:37.410
alignment across objectives inside the organization.
Sometimes it's driven by a lack of confidence
314
00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:41.720
fear that hey, if we're not
doing those things, we're going to be
315
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:47.200
left behind. So we need to
start doing those things and this is why
316
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:51.720
it's really important to have strong leadership
teams inside the organization who can push back
317
00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:56.349
on ideas and concepts before we start
implementing those ideas and concepts. So I
318
00:24:56.390 --> 00:25:00.109
think it's a leader I think it's
a leadership challenge. I don't necessarily believe
319
00:25:00.109 --> 00:25:04.750
that it's a complant challenge, but
it depends on how your complaints are created.
320
00:25:06.190 --> 00:25:08.779
If your complants are created in their
driving behavior that doesn't align with the
321
00:25:08.980 --> 00:25:15.500
objectives of the business, then you
have to do revisit those complants and because
322
00:25:15.539 --> 00:25:21.769
a lot can happen with complant creation. Can't plant design, complant analysis and
323
00:25:21.849 --> 00:25:26.890
you can drive some behavior with the
really doesn't have a positive impact on the
324
00:25:26.970 --> 00:25:30.089
business. So I bring back to
the leadership. Leadership challenging and so the
325
00:25:30.170 --> 00:25:37.160
organization and our capacity for liking to
follow see shiny things and say hey,
326
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:41.519
that sounds call let's go ahead and
do it. What do you think?
327
00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:45.519
What I think is necessary? If
I bring you back to our business,
328
00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:48.960
I you know, I think there's
a couple of things. I think the
329
00:25:49.069 --> 00:25:53.789
first thing is similar to what you
said, not not kind of getting distracted
330
00:25:53.910 --> 00:25:57.509
by the new or the shiny toy
that's comes along in the short term,
331
00:25:57.549 --> 00:26:02.190
which it ineptedly does. I mean
I'm more on the sale side of our
332
00:26:02.230 --> 00:26:07.099
business. But then looking at looking
at marketing right it's market is historically like
333
00:26:07.579 --> 00:26:11.700
new they like disruptive, they like
shiny stuff, they like to try things
334
00:26:11.740 --> 00:26:15.500
down and have a budget where they
can often do it. So so I
335
00:26:15.579 --> 00:26:18.049
think is easier perhaps for marketing to
get distracted at times, and it did
336
00:26:18.210 --> 00:26:25.609
sales. I think in businesses more
and more again, something it's becoming more
337
00:26:25.650 --> 00:26:29.930
and more prevalent it's having is having
frameworks to manage the whole business and ensure
338
00:26:29.930 --> 00:26:33.359
everyone's moving in the right direction.
So, for example, in our business
339
00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:38.240
we use the OKR framework, which
is the developed by, I think,
340
00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:42.799
John D John Doa for pronunciation probably, but he least a book measure.
341
00:26:42.839 --> 00:26:48.309
What matters. Early investor in inteil
and Google and a lot of these large
342
00:26:48.750 --> 00:26:52.309
technology companies running their business ban it
and by US having an overach and objective
343
00:26:52.430 --> 00:26:57.670
on a quarterly or annual basis and
then having three or four key result that
344
00:26:57.910 --> 00:27:03.460
contribute to that overall goal or,
you know, impact that overall goal that
345
00:27:03.579 --> 00:27:07.819
we can measure and track and and
focus on. I think that's the key
346
00:27:07.099 --> 00:27:12.259
and actually results typically follow. So, you know, our North Star might
347
00:27:12.339 --> 00:27:17.130
be in our business, right,
we want to be the best one generation
348
00:27:17.450 --> 00:27:21.529
company for software companies. But what? What are the three or four metrics
349
00:27:21.569 --> 00:27:25.849
it can measure that can contribute to
a boards? That revenues one of them.
350
00:27:26.130 --> 00:27:30.440
You know, maybe number of enterprise
customers is another, but it's a
351
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:33.519
bit bit. But the alignment probably
come from what your North Star is and
352
00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:37.960
then how you set up those key
results for the different departments. And until
353
00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:41.319
your point, I think that's bigger
than complants. Right. I think the
354
00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:45.789
complant should be relatively easy to actually
put together off the back of having properly
355
00:27:45.829 --> 00:27:51.509
structured goals and focus. If for
the business and each team within the business.
356
00:27:52.670 --> 00:27:57.269
So I'm on the same page as
you just coming. I guess this
357
00:27:57.390 --> 00:28:00.059
is probably the the final point for
us to touch on it here, which
358
00:28:00.180 --> 00:28:06.339
is you know how, and maybe
you can touch on it within your business
359
00:28:06.380 --> 00:28:12.009
or give some examples. But how
would you go about measuring alignment? That
360
00:28:12.250 --> 00:28:18.049
is you know. I think it's
when you ask questions. I don't know
361
00:28:18.130 --> 00:28:22.329
that. I don't know that you
can measure alignment in something like a crm.
362
00:28:22.210 --> 00:28:26.970
Maybe you can, maybe there's a
way to do it, because the
363
00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:30.960
things are improving from a speed perspective. That might be an output or the
364
00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:38.279
impact of alignment. You can survey
data. You can use surveys as a
365
00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:42.869
way to as a way to gather
information and start to look at specific indicators.
366
00:28:42.910 --> 00:28:51.430
Are we do we use the same
language when describing the problem that exists
367
00:28:51.470 --> 00:28:56.059
out there? Do we use the
same language when describing why customers elect to
368
00:28:56.140 --> 00:29:00.380
do business with us? Do we
use the same language when talking about why
369
00:29:00.460 --> 00:29:03.940
customers aren't the right fit or why
they might not do business with us?
370
00:29:04.420 --> 00:29:11.210
So some survey data which ends up
being a bit qualitative? Yeah, I
371
00:29:11.569 --> 00:29:17.890
think the I think survey data would
help. I think getting out there and
372
00:29:17.930 --> 00:29:22.529
having conversations with people about. Do
they enjoy the work that they're doing?
373
00:29:22.650 --> 00:29:29.119
Do they feel like they're having an
impact on the business? Do they feel
374
00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:33.160
like they're having an impact on on
the companies that they work with? If
375
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:37.759
they don't feel like they have that
impact, then you probably are misaligned someplace.
376
00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:40.869
Either have the wrong people in the
wrong in the wrong place or your
377
00:29:41.269 --> 00:29:45.069
not clear about what kind of impact
that we're having. But I think the
378
00:29:45.230 --> 00:29:48.029
measurement is I don't know if you
can measure it. No place where you'd
379
00:29:48.029 --> 00:29:52.230
be able to say a look at
a dashboard and the dashboard would show some
380
00:29:52.380 --> 00:29:59.500
key result that indicates a specific alignment. I think it's a it's it's kind
381
00:29:59.500 --> 00:30:03.700
of like culture. It's the gets
this, this, these indicators that you
382
00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:11.730
have inside the organization that there are
things that are coming together and not completely
383
00:30:11.769 --> 00:30:15.049
disconnected. So I don't know.
I don't know if, as I'm going
384
00:30:15.130 --> 00:30:18.769
through and giving a really bad answer
to this, I'm realizing that I don't
385
00:30:18.769 --> 00:30:22.359
know that you can measure it in
with traditional measurements. You actually have to
386
00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:26.480
go back out and do a lot
of the things that many of us are
387
00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:30.440
struggling with. Over the last twelve
months or so you've got to get into
388
00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:33.599
this management by walking around or by
wandering around. You've got to go and
389
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:37.869
engage with your team people and start
to see, hey, are we excited?
390
00:30:38.470 --> 00:30:44.869
Are Are is our internal are employee
net promoter score high or is it
391
00:30:44.990 --> 00:30:47.829
low? If our EMPS is low, why is it low? As it
392
00:30:47.950 --> 00:30:49.900
low? Because there's a lack of
alignment side the organization. Maybe that's an
393
00:30:49.900 --> 00:30:56.420
indicator of of alignment inside the business. Great Question. I'm I'm gonna have
394
00:30:56.420 --> 00:31:00.099
to think about it. then.
How about you? Do you have any
395
00:31:00.380 --> 00:31:03.700
anything come to mind? How could
I get better measure in alignment? You
396
00:31:03.779 --> 00:31:07.609
know, I'm sure you can.
I guess it's a bit of a I'm
397
00:31:07.650 --> 00:31:10.690
not sure it's the best question.
The auto basically what I measure to everything,
398
00:31:10.730 --> 00:31:14.170
but I'm not sure as we're speaking
here, you can. You can
399
00:31:14.250 --> 00:31:17.809
measure it right. I think there's
certain things in business which aren't necessarily be
400
00:31:17.890 --> 00:31:22.240
measurable. They're probably more so feeling
and and you know there's probably other elements
401
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:26.119
to your point which you can measure. The kind of give the feeling that
402
00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:30.160
the teams are aligned and that we're
going in the right direction and maybe that
403
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:33.430
having that north start knowing exactly where
you want to go to. The business
404
00:31:33.990 --> 00:31:40.589
are the are the other, you
know, leading and lagging indicators surrounding that
405
00:31:40.789 --> 00:31:42.910
north start going in the right direction. If so, that's probably a good
406
00:31:42.910 --> 00:31:48.019
indication that the teams are aligned.
I also think there's there's an element of,
407
00:31:48.579 --> 00:31:52.819
to your point, around, you
know, Employe satisfaction, employe culture,
408
00:31:53.180 --> 00:31:56.900
lack of churn in the business.
Probably a pretty good indication that teams
409
00:31:56.900 --> 00:32:01.890
are aligned. Team to enjoying their
work, team to being productive, but
410
00:32:02.089 --> 00:32:05.130
to but, but yeah, I
think you're right. I don't know.
411
00:32:05.130 --> 00:32:09.369
I don't know that there is a
tool set or a metric out there suggested
412
00:32:09.609 --> 00:32:15.049
for but for alignment within business in
and maybe we need to try and do
413
00:32:15.210 --> 00:32:19.079
some research around that and I'll get
back to on it. Okay. So,
414
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:22.880
anyway, my so we're kind of
moving towards the end of our conversation
415
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:25.640
here and really enjoyed it actually.
It's been been great to chat to you.
416
00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:29.839
I'm sure there's going to be other
people that want to know more about
417
00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:32.829
this. So if that is indeed
the case, how do you suggest they
418
00:32:32.829 --> 00:32:37.589
get in touch with you or indeed
your company? So I'm on Linkedin.
419
00:32:37.910 --> 00:32:39.190
It's Mike some and some on Linkedin. If you just do a search for
420
00:32:39.269 --> 00:32:44.420
Mike Simmons and side safe, you'll
see me there. Happy to conect with
421
00:32:44.460 --> 00:32:52.700
folks on Linkedin. Best Place to
go is side SAFECOM. That's CYB SAFECOM,
422
00:32:52.339 --> 00:32:58.099
and those are the two two great
places to connect with us as are
423
00:32:58.140 --> 00:33:00.769
live. Chat on the side safe
site. That you can, that you
424
00:33:00.849 --> 00:33:04.490
can, you can click on as
well. Okay, great, wonderful.
425
00:33:05.130 --> 00:33:07.849
Thanks agetting, Mike. Great speeding
to thanks. So Mike has in faded
426
00:33:08.009 --> 00:33:13.079
in Arizona. So I'm in the
UK's's one hundred and forty one here.
427
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.559
Five hundred and forty one am.
MICS times that very early. So thanks
428
00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:20.079
for getting up early in and speaking
to us that have a great rest of
429
00:33:20.119 --> 00:33:23.680
the day then. It's been awesome. Thank you. Did might. operatics
430
00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:30.109
has redefined the meaning of revenue generation
for technology companies worldwide. While the traditional
431
00:33:30.309 --> 00:33:36.390
concepts of building and managing inside sales
teams inhouse has existed for many years,
432
00:33:36.789 --> 00:33:42.099
companies are struggling with a lack of
focus, agility and scale required in today's
433
00:33:42.220 --> 00:33:47.259
fast and complex world of enterprise technology
sales. See How operatics can help your
434
00:33:47.380 --> 00:33:54.180
company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet.
You've been listening to be tob revenue acceleration.
435
00:33:54.890 --> 00:33:58.970
To ensure that you never miss an
episode, subscribe to the show in
436
00:33:59.009 --> 00:34:02.210
your favorite podcast player. Thank you
so much for listening. Until next time.
437
-->
