Episode Transcript
WEBVTT
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So you were listening to be tob
revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping
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software executives stay on the cutting edge
of sales and marketing in their industry.
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Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome to be to be a revenue
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acceleration. My name is alien.
With you, and today I have the
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pleasure of welcoming too, guests in
the in the podcast. Megan Hines,
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director proven you operation of Mainsay,
pop knows, and Mark Kitty, see
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you of new age growth. Are
you both gay? Doing today? Wonderful.
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Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, pleasure of pleasure.
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So today we will be speaking about
the importance of revenue operations. But before
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we get started, can you guys
give a quick in tradition to we you
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are we you walk for, and
I think we should start with ladies felt,
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so mega join it with this.
Good yes, thank you. I'm
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Megan Hinds, and I've been working
in Sass or software, as a serving
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businesses for the majority of my career
in varying operations roles and now with mainsteal
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partners. I really have the pleasure
to work alongside our portfolio companies to help
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skill their organizations. So mainsale is
a growth equity firm and we focus on
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bb software solutions and specific particles.
Very, very good. We thank you
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very much for again markable to you. Yeah, so thanks for having me.
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My entire career has been in the
BB space and I've held probably every
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position under the sun related to product
or marketing or sales. Most recently,
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of held titles as chief marketing,
off search if revenue officer, one of
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which was with a mainsale for folio
company, and about six years ago I
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founded a new edge growth and we
are focused on helping marketing and sales leaders,
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revenue leaders, really help them grow
and and define their process and the
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revenue engine, and so we focus
on that from a standpoint of what we
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call the sport of growth, so
strategy, process, operations, repeatability and
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results, and then technology finally,
of course. Sounds Great. Well,
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thank you so much for that,
gay is that that's formed off wood and
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in thanks for participating today. So
let's get going. Revenue Operation. So
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it's a bit of a buzz.
Walt, I've got to be ans with
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you in the preparation of the podcast
and as we good game like, he's
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revenue operation. The Semis site.
Is Operation? Is it operation? Operation
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with I'll do two worlds, like
getting together and creating that new tie to
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at that I see growing everywhel.
See A lot of PROVENU operation people coming
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out of the woodwork. So let's
start with what it means from your prospective
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guy and maybe making you want to
get us going. But you know,
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I guess my main question for you
is what was the definition of proven you
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operation? How does that I'll is
defferent from starts operation. Yeah, great
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question. I'll start by saying that, just like sales operations, revenue operations
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are reb ups and sometimes it's referred
to really exists to drive the efficiencies and
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best practices to the growth engine of
stealing businesses. So there's really no difference
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there. But because revenue growth in
today's world cannot be limited to just sales,
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we really need a model for aligning
every go to market team and your
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strategy for that customer growth. So
revenue operations is really the set of the
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steps, processes and tools that are
industry tested and intended to grow with the
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business in that way. Okay,
so who end support from sers worlds us
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all function with becaustomers success, because
that's what was one was all tied to
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it. He's coming up a lot
customers success with the people walking of taking
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their clients and the journey as a
customers. That is the only play.
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All that will come as a functioning
in rib ups. Hope I'll you seeing
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you as a function draining in multiple
different functions. So every go to market
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team, it's really your marketing,
your sales, your product, your customer
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success, everybody that's customer facing,
everybody that has a part in the customer
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journey. Good. All right,
thanks for letting again and mark from your
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perspective, revenue ups or Rib ups, the's fools sets ups. What what
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do you see? The the main
defferences, if you see any? Yo,
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there's definitely a difference and I think
Megan nailed it right. It is
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fifteen years ago, revenue or,
sorry, sales ops, was what was,
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you know, the the term that
was being used, and probably about
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three or four years ago revenue ops
started taking a greater role and and Megan
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nailed it right. It is.
It is. It spans the entire process
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of the customer journey, right from
the time that they are doing research to
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try and figure out how do I
fix this problem. I have through the
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entire sales engagement to post sales and
that on boarding and customer experience. Right.
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That entire that entire chain is what
defines revenue operations and it's really coordinating
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the playbook across the entire company to
enable that to happen. Okay. So,
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so, saying was your mom,
who would you say should be one?
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I think you went through the defrond
teams. That should be a line
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we ups. But who is edging
up, Prov up saying that in that
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in that time that come down?
So it's a good question. Right,
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if you have a if you have
a chief revenue officer, you know that
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that probably rolls up to that person, but it does. It needs to
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be somebody who does have visibility across
all the different functions. Right, it
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is, and it's anybody who has
a direct touch point with the end customer.
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Right. So those are the folks
who are involved in this revenue operations.
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Now, do they participate and do
the REV OPS function? No,
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but the REV ops person, person
who's in charge of the team, there's
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in charge of it, needs to
have access so they can measure. No
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different than, let's say, if
you were to use an F one's analogy.
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Right, if you're an F one
team, you have multiple engineers who
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are working on different parts of the
car and of the race. Right,
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each one has a role to ensure
that the outcome is that you place as
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high as you can get points.
Right, in this case it is we
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are trying to generate revenue. So
how do we coordinate everybody to make sure
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that we're all operating as efficiently as
possible? Okay, so that's pretty as
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our type of responsivity team eyes.
Okay, in my eyes. Yeah,
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let's took about Measureman, guys,
because there is again the function is so
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broad. So you've got the young
building of the customer, you've got wading,
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the customers on building the customer,
keeping the customers. So I guess
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one of the one of the the
the measure of success would be ongoing revenue
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and and and the montster recurring revenue
just adding up. But do you see
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any KPI's all? Okay, y'all, that could be broken down. I'll
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do you. I've you seen any
specific methodology of companies driving their Riv ups
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team with specific targets or specific Apas
at what went? Yeah, just like
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you said, I think it has
to be tied to the revenue and in
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that sense there's a lot of tpies
within that we can measure, but both
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of gross revenue net revenue. Retention
is a great one, or NR's it's
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referred to, because then you're really
measuring both aspects of the revenue maintained as
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well as the new growth within and
to be able to view that over time
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is a great measure of your revenue
operations roll. You know, one a
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layer on top of that that I
have really been up put a focus on
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with one of my clients is around
velocity. And so often we focused around
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sales velocity and that's important, right, because you can measure each of the
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stages and how well you're converting through
the stages. But I also try to
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help them imagine the velocity measurements around
the marketing side, so the demands enzyme,
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as well as even velocity as relates
to customers, customer lifetime value,
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to enable them to start thinking about
what is the revenue impact of everything that
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we're doing. So it's important to
kind of and it's becomes a sheared measurement
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at that point, right, and
that that shared measurement then allows you to
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get out of silos, as I
think that you think about differ functions and
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allows you to work across the team. Yeah, yeah, thanks to mock
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and Mar could. Just wanted to
pick something from your introduction, which the
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lass spots. That's your broad sea
with sticknology, which which I like this.
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Often people are stuff. We stick
stuck fast. What's your thick stack?
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And then we try to find out
the blueprint. That feel the back.
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So the kind of taking it deals
a way around putting the architects.
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When the the the house, he's
already good. But from the technology perspective,
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you know, I'm expecting something like
se spalls dot come to be quiet
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all of the journey, if you
will. Do you have any specific new
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thought? Vendors, people di being
or well, really involved in the REV
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up. So a solution that's you've
seen helping reb ups professional is a streamlining
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some of the processes all, as
you mentioned, increasing the velocity. Yeah,
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so are you asking? You there
anybody? Any new vendors out there?
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You asking just like how I approach
it with clients. Get off both
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security. I mean I'd like to
know your lily new technology that I've not
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been a still a little bit on
the on the radar, but and also
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I'd love to Tec know you approach
it with clients. Yeah, so I'll
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tell you if you if you'd spend
any time looking at the marketing stack.
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Right, Scott brinker has his technology
landscape, is marked technology landscape, which
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has over eightzero companies in it.
It is daunting, right, and part
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of the challenge, I think,
with companies is that they they have a
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problem, they know they can fix
it and they typically will find the first
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solution that fixes that problem and they
struggle with the holistic view of really what
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they're trying to accomplish. Right.
So the challenge, I think many people
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have a the way we get engaged
with most client this is will come to
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us and is typically with a sales
force technology problem. Right. I have
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sales force. It doesn't work well, it doesn't typically doesn't work because you've
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not you don't know what your processes
are, you don't know what you're trying
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to automate or what you're trying to
streamline or what you're trying to optimize,
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and so consequently nothing gets done.
If you have a Ferrari sitting in your
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garage that you drive to the mailbox
right now. It's you're not using it
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as intended. Right. That thing
needs to I think, needs to go.
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And so so technologies that I think
you're flying under the radar. It's
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tough because there are a lot of
technologies that do really good things, really,
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you know, very narrow but very
deep way. Right, we have
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a project my partner and I are
working on right now that we're wrapping up
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this week with a pretty good sized
bank here in the US that has done
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an incredible job of using technology.
But they've also that's also been their achielees
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heel. They've spent so much time
acquiring technology that they have all of these,
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you know, islands of experience and
technology excellence, but it's not coordinated,
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it overlaps, it is not fully
being realized, and so they're trying
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to rationalize everything they have and see
are the technologies that can that can do
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what we're already paying for. And
so I think that's the biggest challenge right
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and and for for companies. I
if I had to give them any advice,
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is you need to slow down before
you go fast. So take take
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the time to slow down, analyze
everything you're doing, realize what you're trying
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to optimize and then make your moves. Don't buy the technology first because it
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slows you down. I didn't really
answer your question directly, but I like
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it. I like it because you
know why you can offense of the that
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question can of came live in my
mind and and it's because I just come
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out of a few cours this afternoon
with people asking me for a text tax,
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text tacts, textack. What you
using? What's new? And I
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think, to your point, people
are quiet achnology. People have garages full
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of ferraries but they don't really use
any of them right and and and and
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when they use them they can create
silos. So you may have a team
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being very, very good at using
their only little technology and they're really exploiting
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that best of brick stuff for their
part, but then it's not really communicating
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with the rest of the of the
of the system. So it's quite an
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interesting topic. And I'll take that
just one step further and I'll let it
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die. Is People, companies and
clients of mind. I've got one right
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now who will acquire a duplicate technology
just because it has one feature the other
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one doesn't. So the enterprise has
a technology that they have standardized across the
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company, but this team has decided, because it doesn't have this one feature,
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we're going to acquire an exact duplicate
of another technology to do it for
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them. Yeah, versus just working
or just doing a workaround right, it's
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creating complexity for your it departments,
creating complexity for your team as it relates
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to other departments, and it's not
I don't think that. As I say,
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the juice is worth the squeeze.
Now would agree with you again.
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I just related to tow us if
you've seen any common mistakes when companies are
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implementing Riv up roll or team to
get in your point for you, would
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we be the common mistate that you
usually see? Yeah, I would say
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a lot of growing pains. As
you mentioned, this is a newer role.
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I believe some companies are seeing that
trend and they're just really making a
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change in title with their existing team. But as an organization, I don't
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think you can just change the title
of that existing ops role or team and
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expect all of the details to work
itself out in a way that really has
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a foundational impact towards that less siload
approach that we were talking about. So
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in my opinion, it really needs
to be a conscious, consensual change and
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how the entire organization is operating to
be successful, as opposed to just focusing
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on what the title is. Makes
Perfect sence me again, what about Smoki
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of anything to to? I don't
what make just said. Yeah, and
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I'm with my going to you know
a lot of companies have just changed the
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title right and makes make it sound
bigger. I think for that to be
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effective, though, the team you
need to have experience across the organization you're
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trying to support. So we're value
is created, right, is somebody who
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has sold before and now they're in
a revenue operations roll. They've done marketing
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before and now they're in a revenue
operations roll. They've done customer and client
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success, now they're in a revenue
operations role. Having that that, that
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on the job experience will bring so
much more to the function itself, right
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and then really truly having people who
are spirited and really passionate about analytics and
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processes and have that kind of engineering
mind to how it works. I think
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those are the components that really I've
seen enable a team to be most effective
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with revenue APPs. Yeah, you
can. of He is great. You
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can have read my mind. And
responding to the next question, which is,
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let's say, let's say a CEO
ALL CR or seem I'm listening to
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be a piece of today because I
was doing some results roving the operation.
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What does that mean? All the
people in the bay area and blist done
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every or just stop that I know
are recruiting produce sport. I kind of
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feel that I need one great know
what it is. Well, we's need
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to recruit that individual and I think
you gave some good kind of nuggets of
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information as to what that doesn't should
I in know, pro fine from you
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again if I was to stopped.
Its okay, I want to find the
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right doesn't want to write adjust.
Thank all I want as the right question
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from you. All those big team
what should they be looking for in that
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individual that can pretty much kind of
goor the functions together? Yeah, I
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would say in terms of personality traits, curiosity is a big one, because
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that's really how you start to understand
and divulge and kill back all the layers
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within your processes and text ac to
really see. Okay, what is the
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heart of the problem? I may
be getting as an operations roll, all
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of these potential projects thrown at me, but I really need to be curious,
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dig in, understand what is the
baseline issue that I'm trying to solve
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and how do I solve it across
multiple different departments at the same time,
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not just taking one sideload approach.
I think sense. Yeah, I love
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that Magna. I think that I
love that word curiosity, because the word
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I often use is critical thinking,
but curiosity, to May get kind of
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works even better because it's always asking
why, right, why is this working
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well and why is it broken?
Right, and then leveraging your problem solving
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skills to fix it or to enable
it to repeat. Right, if it's
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working well, where you want to
repeat that and make it more efficient.
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If it's not working, then how
do we fix it and improve it?
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So I love that. I love
that word. Yeah, and let's question.
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Guys ready for me, for me, today's stage of companies. So
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again I'm a see you all my
friends are doing it. They have the
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spread ups, people coming coming out
of everywhere. I would do I know
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if my company need that individual right, because if I'm a start of a
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started yesterday, I may want to
have won because you know, I got
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lots of investment and it's cool to
have won that ups. Probably that the
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way people are thinking. Sorry,
it's probably so. Yet I would think
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about getting at some points. But
what's the was the inflation point where you've
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got to stop thinking about Trev ups
and what's The journey before? Even so,
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if you don't have it, I
would you see the journey to deal
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with the issue that REV UPS is
dealing with? When would you implement Rev
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ups? Number of customers? Is
it is, it is, it is.
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It's when you're seeking more investment.
Is when you become public. Is
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that? He is on the rule
of some what are your thoughts on that?
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It's a wide open question. Gay, I'm so sorry. No,
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no worries, mark, I'll take
it first, if you don't mind.
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But I love this question because it's
one we often get and one that companies
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start to think about a little bit
later on in their growth journey. But
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I like to say that there's no
barrier to entry for revenue operations and similar
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to if you're Thursday, you probably
should a drink water like thirty minutes ago.
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You know. So if you're asking
yourself the question, when do I
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need up ups. You probably already
needed it. It's something that, like
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we said, is intended to truly
implement and grow and scale with Your Business
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and, like mark was touching on
it, you can really help resolve some
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of those problems before their problems and
your text doc or any of your processes
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if you're having somebody or a team
that's truly focused on it in the beginning.
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So I love that question. It's
one we always get and one that
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I always say like now is the
right time, no matter where your business
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it's right now. Yeah, you
know, and I think I think you're
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right. The there, when you're
starting out right, this difficult to justify
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expenditures onto a head counter person to
do this solely. Right. So maybe
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the initial early days of a startup
you might have your CFO, who can
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be that kind of minded person,
right, that that ops minded person,
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or your coo even, who can
help just coordinate and organize and manage the
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the Kepis are necessary to be effective. But as you start to get sales
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people, as you start to get
layers in your business right and you start
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to have your hands in multiple pots, it becomes more necessary to have somebody
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who is your right hand person who
is your extension of you, who can
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help make sure that the machine is
operating correctly. Right, whether you're if
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you're starting to get into complan design, you starting to get into the the
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you know, the effectiveness of your
sales funnel. You's going to get into
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your onboarding and your lifetime value and
all these different functions that start to become
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more repeatable and more scaled, then
you probably need a person at that point,
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or team at that point, being
on where you are. So,
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to answer your question, I think
it is a little bit based on where
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you are in your growth, your
life cycle, but it might also be
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based on revenues. So if you're
getting to like a two million dollar,
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a ror, three million, five
million dollar are are you're probably going to
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need a person at that point dedicated
to it. Once you get to tend
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to, you know, fifteen million, you might need to get multiple people
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and then just scale up from there. You'll you'll start to realize it because
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it's more complex, right, the
system become more complex, the sales process
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becomes more complex, the COMP becomes
more complex, and so you'll start to
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realize when your team starts raising their
hands. As I'm done you know it's
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time to add people. Yeah,
and I'll add to that right. I
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think your last question was what do
you do if you don't have somebody in
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that role? And one of the
places I like to tell people to really
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start is focusing on your customer journey
and that's where you're getting all of your
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leaders from. Your go to market
teams that we mentioned before involved really evaluating
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all of the different handoffs, all
of the different communication and potential places where
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your customers could fall out in churn
or places where you're missing on that opportunity
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to accelerate growth with any of those
customers. So I think that is if
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you don't have someone dedicated and that
role, I think it's a great place
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to start to understand your revenue operations
journey. Okay, actually have one more
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question. They are just came from
which you just saying again. I'm so
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sorry, we're going to run out
of time. We are currently thinking as
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a business about building up what we
will be, I guess we will call
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a customer advisory Blot the getting our
customers to come and I think we've got
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quite a good clue about what we
want to do. But we always want
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to beat our services or to think
about things that we may not be doing
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or saying in the market. IS
THAT TO REV UP SCROLL? Should it
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be someone in revenue ups that that
would get that completely insane? Well,
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okay, I'm going to grow all
the things internally. I'm going to get
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all the functioning done. They need
to have that that great level of communication,
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make sure the customer journey is fantastic
and streamline for the customer. But
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is there also an external role of
creating that community of customers, getting them
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to Spik, getting them to extend
and and in fact I think that's a
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sort of a very honest feedback from
the ouss mouse. I have an opinion.
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Like I can go first of this
one. I know, I do
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not think this is revenue ups.
So this is your this is your customer
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experience, customer success. You know, VP, whoever owns the customer right,
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whoever owns that, that that experience, owns the customer advisor report and
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actually probably in concert with your CMO, right, those two probably need to
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work together because the feedback are going
to get there is going to influence how
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you go to market and try to
generate more interest. Right now, however,
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your revenue ops person definitely has a
seat at that table and it's very
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interested in how things and in the
feedback that the customers are giving because it
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influences potentially where you can find opportunity
to improve the process. But the ownership
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of that is with your your vp
of customer success or client success, in
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my opinion. Yeah, I love
that answer. And Mark I love that
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you put the CMO or the marketing
team in there, because that's really where
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you start to move away from this
single flow funnel approach and really start to
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get into that fly wheel with your
customers to help them circle back with marketing
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and really help accelerate that growth.
Yep, well, I'm to connotive debts.
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Just make sure that they implement that. You deny the thank you so
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much, gay, for sharing what
you're in say today with all audience.
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He was was really good. I'm
one of the question that we ask at
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the end of each a piece of
that we recall these. I'll do we
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get in touch with you. So
if someone wants to carry on the conversation
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with you, mega and and all
speak about mainstain pulp mails and which you
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could do for the business and we
you mock if someone wants to, you
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00:24:30.849 --> 00:24:33.529
know, get to Inverte for a
bit of constructency and potentially bought some gaming
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doing orders function to get us again
again get the Rev ups bullet at of
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the you know, the sea was
the best way to get in touchrees you,
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00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:47.240
gays. Yeah, I'd love to
continue the conversation. The best way
337
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:51.480
to get in touch with me is
linkedin again, Megan Hines, or you
338
00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:56.869
can follow mainsale partners for some additional
be tob content and and for me again,
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00:24:56.910 --> 00:25:00.589
you can find me on Linkedin.
I'm at Mark Telly, so it
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00:25:00.750 --> 00:25:04.829
just to mark em Er k Kelly
and then you can find us online at
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00:25:04.950 --> 00:25:11.299
new edge growthcom right. Wow,
thank you so much once again, gays.
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00:25:11.380 --> 00:25:14.660
He was an absolute big out to
have you on the post. Thank
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00:25:14.700 --> 00:25:22.049
you. operatics has redefined the meaning
of revenue generation for technology companies worldwide.
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00:25:22.089 --> 00:25:26.890
While the traditional concepts of building and
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345
00:25:27.049 --> 00:25:32.809
many years, companies are struggling with
a lack of focus, agility and scale
346
00:25:33.210 --> 00:25:38.720
required in today's fast and complex world
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347
00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:45.920
can help your company accelerate pipeline at
operatics dotnet. You've been listening to be
348
00:25:45.079 --> 00:25:49.750
tob revenue acceleration. To ensure that
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350
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Until next time.
