Episode Transcript
WEBVTT
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And me into us a rap shop, or thinking about the buyer experiences.
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How do we meet the buyer where
they are? How do we engage with
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them on the channels that they want
and, more importantly, how do they
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want to interact with your brand?
You were listening to be to be revenue
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acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping
software executive stay on the cutting edge of
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sales and marketing in their industry.
Let's get into the show. Hi,
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welcome to be to be a reven
new acceleration. My name is already in
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with you and I'm here today with
Josh or, Brian Confounder of reff shop.
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I A. You doing today,
Josh? I'm doing great, man.
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Thanks for having me. How are
you? Absolute pleasure. A.
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I'm great. So is. It's
kind of twenty eight degrees in the Ukn
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the moment, so I'm surrounded by
fans. I can see that you've got
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for above you. I'd but says
it's nice and warm while we are so
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nothing to complain about. Today we
will be talking about bio experience. Are
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you delivering the experience shop by all
wants to receive? That's that's good.
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You know, I've got way to
do deave into that. But before we
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get into the conversation, can you
tell me a little bit more about yourself,
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Josh, but also, most importantly, for your company, Ref Shop.
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So what was the basis for Co
funding a company and what what is
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it that you guys are doing right
now? Sure, yeah, so I'm
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one of the CO founders here and
what rep shop does is we help enterprise
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companies scale on sales engagement platform,
specifically outreach and sales offt and that's around
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operations, messaging, enablement and really
building centers of excellence and operating models to
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scale organizations on those platforms. So
I've been to using funny enough, I
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was working next to sales loft when
sales loft was probably five employees in Atlanta
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Tech village in Atlanta. So I've
been watching them for for a very,
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very long time and then I got
hired as one of the first sales tires
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of a company called Data Oz,
who eventually got bought by Zoom Info and
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we were one of outreaches Alpha customers. So been around those platforms for a
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long time, but a big fan
and and really saw the potential of those
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things. And then when we got
bought by Zoom Info. My girlfriend and
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I sold all of our stuff,
went and traveled off two thousand and eighteen,
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three hundred and thirty seven days out
of the country, twenty six countries,
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and we're in some consulting and you
know, the kind of just evolved
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into what it is. And we
signed our first deal in July of two
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thousand and eighteen and a little air
being be in Rome, Italy, and
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never look back since then. No
Song's wonder who why? That's a great
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story. Out of defense. Nick
Tuia left everything in when traveling, went
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away to to open up. You'll
rise and renew and and you know it's
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probably the best for you can do. From an explain spellst picctivity. You
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May as well do it now.
You did. COVID does when, which
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is fantastic, great timing. Yeah, so right before, okay, and
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you never you think you test your
relationship like living with a person, but
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try living with, you know,
your girlfriend and spending twenty four hours a
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day with them in, you know, foreign countries where you can't speak the
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language. So tested a lot of
a lot of my patients, tested a
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lot of our relationship and a lot
of growth came out of it too,
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so I'm very thankful that we got
the opportunity to do it. So you
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are still together, I think it's
wore. Still together, and she's my
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business partner. So now we have
business together. To add one more complex
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relationship. Yes, that's another layoff
complexity. What's what's next? Really?
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That's good. Well, was great
to it. So, Josh, before
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we did you to do the big
I just want to make a distinction between
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by your experience and customer experience in
the preparation of the Scipe is a quite
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frank and quite and this. Yeah, we'd associate them as exactly the same
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thing, but after speaking with you
on Thostan, the impacting different stages of
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the same psychord. So would you
want to get just a couple of minutes
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to clarify that to audience and and
explain the difference from your prospective between by
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your experience and custom explains? Yeah, yeah, of course they know.
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You know. I think they they
tend to be synonymous and there's a lot
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of overlap between the two. But
you know, to me, unto us
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a rub shop or thinking about the
buyer experiences, how do we meet the
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buyer where they are? How do
we engage with them on the channels that
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they want and, more importantly,
like how do they want to interact with
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your brand? How is your brand
perceived by them? And we're thinking about
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that. You know, precess.
So, for example, we have forms
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on our website. We come inbound, we have a channel communication preference.
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So some people like to be called, some people like to be emailed,
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some people like to be text and
I want to make sure that they're accommodated
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to do that. And I think
a lot of companies don't think about things
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that way because we've had these historical
marketing engines where it's just hey, you
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come in, you get a form
automatically sent to you by email and then
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hopefully someone reaches back out to you, versus the customer experience. You're already
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a customer by experience does play into
that if you're trying to, you know,
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upsell or cross cell or anything like
that. But I'm thinking about customer
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experience more post sales. You've already
booked the revenue and that's what I think
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delineates the two of those. Okay, I think that makes perfect sense.
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So let's focus on the on.
The Bay on explains here. Funny enough.
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It was listening to to a few
put guests recently and looking to a
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few clients, it seems that there
is a I guess a fair few company,
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maybe not to a olthough, complexifying
the sence process or dissertain cycles,
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but you know, they are trying
to put their reps onder aasing like some
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sort of cage where you've got to
get a deco very call and then you
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need to do your demo and then
use days and that and the try to
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form a teaching the way where it's
like pretty much sent fish from the sense
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Cycor despetive. That's the prospectus pect
even I guess we could almost said it,
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we could almost put it incense cvt
towards the the experience of the Bio
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so foo. What do you see
a lot of companies putting in the trap?
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Yeah, yeah, I mean I
think it's just a it's the nature
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of business, you know, and
especially in America with capitalism or I think
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a lot of companies are looking at
people as numbers, you know, and
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a lot of sales reps are looking
at people at as numbers and not people.
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So I think it's easy to fall
into the trap of this is the
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process and we need to fit our
reps into this box and make something that's
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replicable and scalable. But to your
point about it being insensitive to the person
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who is going to buy or potentially
buy your product. That tends to get
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thrown to the wayside because people are
just looking at how many activities can I
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hit and how many emails can I
get out to this person, how many
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times can I cold call and how
does that equate to revenue, versus actually
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thinking about what the buyer is,
who the buyer is, what their psychographic
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profile looks like, how they want
to be engaged, what their preferences are
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and things like that. So I
think a lot of companies fall into that
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trap and I think I'm really loving
the shift to the chief revenue officer position,
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to Revenu new office, really bringing
marketing and sales together. Yeah,
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because they've historically operated in these silos
where marketing is saying I need to get
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these MPL's, I need to get
these marketing accepted leads, and sales is
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like, I need to get these
sales qualified, these I need to book
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this revenue, and they're comped on
two completely different things. They have two
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completely different goals and there's no uniformity
and there's no collaboration across those teams,
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especially in larger organizations. So that's
really what repshop is helping to do.
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But it's beautiful to see this position
come to light and seems move into a
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Croro position or VP of sales,
move into a Seciet crro position and really
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oversee everything from a revenue perspective and
make sure that sales and marketing are super
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line, that the man programs from
marketing are coming down to sales and to
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sales development and everybody is speaking the
same language, being very thoughtful and being
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very intentional about how they deliver that
message and how they deliver their brand.
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Yeah, now I go, but
you realise, you and then do you?
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Have you seen some some example where? But then sheally that can of
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regeat Ruboutique Sensai chords of step by
steps and ten steps into process and you
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do these and then you do that
actually walks. I think it works in
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theory when you have the path and
you know what the next step is,
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that's a great thing. Yeah,
but those steps need to be malleable.
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To your point about being robotic.
Yes, the process is great, but
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we can't follow the process a hundred
percent every time. You have to be
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able to be agile, you have
to pivot, you have to think about
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again, going back to the buyer
experience, how are we going to engage
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this person? You know, I
think it takes a lot of testing and
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it takes a lot of things that, you know, people either don't have
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the band what to do, they
don't have the expertise to do, especially
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in outreaching sales, off the very
nasing technology and it's just, you know,
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sometimes seen as this email automation platform, but there's a lot that goes
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behind it. You know, I
think it people don't think about the how
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flexible these things need to be and
how to coach their reps to say this
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is when I go by the book
and this is when I can color outside
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the lines. Yeah, now you
know what I think. I think.
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I think if you are you very
kumudatizes Commudi Tis, won't like Y'all stuff
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is is a Commodi ti people already
have. When and you sitting in a
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low one or if you are in
a very little value, you know what
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type of sense process of what you
need. A lot of Vility, T.
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I think giving something that quite rigid
and trying to get UN dreads,
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rups, rep singing the same thing
and at the same diamond in a tune,
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sen and stuff doesnt make sense because
you can really im measure and it
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doesn't really matter if she was a
deal, but what else he was a
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customers. We know probably a good
eighteen ninety parts of our customers are relatively
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destructive. They have different by your
person, name the journey, and you
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know, I think he's absolutely critical
to adapt to the Bay of person nine
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and put the person and put the
clients, put the PROSPECTU, I say,
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in the center of the serves process. You know what do they want
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and how can you add them?
Wells, you strain to push thing at
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them. Is trying to let them
ask you the question and pull which is
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kind of linking me to my next
question. Of course, everybodio is different
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and people like to be treated treated
in different ways and some of them wants
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to go and get all their education
done online. Some MOSOL, would go
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to the network and we otherwise give, if they've got the said names,
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freetened the just by you straight away. Some as I would actually like to
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speak to USSELVES. Person I don't
know, I'miliar left, but maybe a
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few. So. So my question
to you is how can companies and show
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that they did even the Buyo experience, that bio the Bayo actually want to
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receive? Yeah, so I think
there's a couple things. One. The
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first thing on the marketing side.
You know, going back to my example
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earlier in the conversation, ask on
your farms. How do you want to
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be engaged? I think it tells
you a lot about the person. It's
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going to tell your sales person a
lot about how that person wants to engage.
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I've run wholesale cycles just through tests
and I've never send an email until
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the proposal or the style. All
Right, whereas others, you know,
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straight email, others I create slack
channel sport like. You just have to
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think about where these people want to
live and you have to talk to your
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customers about this, especially if you, you know, only have a few,
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a few personas, or even if
you have a lot of personas.
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But you know, in the beginning
you have to start small and think about,
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I say, psychographic profile a lot. So thinking about the psychology of
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the demographic that you have. So
I always use the example of an it
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person or an engineer and network architect
or something like that. They're getting hundreds
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of emails a day from network monitoring
platforms, from crowd strike, from security,
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from everything like good luck getting into
their inbox right. So not only
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thinking about the experience that they want, because they don't want more emails.
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They're probably on ready, they're probably
reading blogs on medium, but how do
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we break through the noise and get
to them on other channels? And if
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you're going to email, like email
outside of business hours because they're burning midnight
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oil, they're probably coding, they're
probably working the night shift doing the security
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monitoring stuff like. Stuff like that. We've had tons of success like emailing
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people at midnight and, you know, sometimes that pisses people off, but
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you know, I'd rather rot on
the Rod, on the edge than,
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you know, then color inside the
lines in some cases. Yeah, I'd
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say that you really have to think
about the person, break down the personas
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breakdown the profile. How do they
live? What channels do they live on?
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What channels do they want to be
engaged on? And then the next
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thing thinking about the hun you incorporate
that into a cadencer, into a sequence
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based on those channels and then you
have the test those thanks, you know,
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and you get a big enough sample
size, you take that data back,
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you analyze it and then you shift, first off at the wall,
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figure out what works and then keep
moving. I agree with you. So
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would you really see it's almost like
as a an algorithm. Of there is,
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you know, you speak to someone, you may have three option depending
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on how they want to receive the
information or what the next step is.
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From the perspective ex a trust.
It's actually asking the question. I like.
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I like the idea of feeling of
the form. In fact, I
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was reading a post about about what, I won't mention them bits, some
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some games of the CIO of Red
Splash company in the UK and it was
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complaining about receiving colds. And one
of the finite he men is to look,
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most people just come and we meet, pictures at me and they don't
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even know why I though. They
don't know. They don't ask me how,
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how I want to get the information, and they could actually Scopa people
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to just ask me a few questions
at the beginning, to say look,
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you know, this is what I
want to do, this is what I
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would like to convey what's the best
way to actually get the information. And
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in fact, you know, some
of some of the finity was suggesting is
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potentially, you know, letting them
speak to someone else in that team but
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then keeping a line of contact with
him and then coming back. It's a
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tricky trust. So, you know, really having the flexibility of feeling that
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you wanted the prisoner of the sense
process, but also not being faced to
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have a discovery code if you actually
want to demo. So I think I've
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had a lot of prospect also speaking
about unnecessary TEPs in the process. H
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They well, before we do the
Demo, we actually to to tell you
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about the solution because he's so complex. And when you say things like that
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you actually make the prospect feel like
an Indsi like that, like an idiot,
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and and you know, it's quite
interesting to look at it from the
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prospect perspective and see what does the
ear what they've got to say. We
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have a couple of customers also that
I've been scratching the back of their head
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because obviously everybody wants to build that
revenue generation engine. While you can say,
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Hey, I've got the sense Ip
that's increasing my valuation ors of great
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stuff and whether the couple of customers
we interestingly we'll bring some others with the
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prospect. So when people will get
to the proof of concept or prior to
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get to the proof of concept.
There's a look. You know, obviously
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we won't move forward together, but
we just wanted to do something about your
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experience. So be honest. You
know, we candid about the things that
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you think we should include. We
should emiliating the process and I think that's
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a great initiatives because I think when
you do that sort of things, first
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of all you they shows a little
bit of humility, but also it probably
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put you in a position where if
whatever the prospect is doing right now is
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not working, they probably remember you
as the good person right and the probably
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leave a good taste in the mouse. It's it's interesting. But if if
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you want to do, let's say, you be dy'all all the Aeed Online,
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a sticking those sports, I would
you deal with it, Josh.
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What would you recommend for the for
the sales people, while listening today,
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and they'll probably a big prisoner of
that stuff they've got down manager hitting then
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that they should do it that way. They may feel something that the prospect
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doesn't want it. So what you
did? I come from find on in
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for eleven years and I'm always thinking
about things from the customers Lens. That's
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what I've really tried to do.
And when you come to work you tend
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to leave your real personality at home. You're authentic self at home and you
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have to build trust in these relationships
and you have to be authentic and you
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have to be yourself. And I
think you know sometimes it's very difficult when
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you work for large organizations who you
know have these rigid processes and things.
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But you know, in general,
usually when I get on a sales call,
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I ask Hey, why are we
here? What do you want to
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take away from this call? And
then we go through that, we make
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sure that everything's addressed that they wanted
to hear, and then we finish off
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and you say, how do you
want to buy? How do you normally
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buy? This is what I normally
do and this is what tends to work
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best. But you know your organization
best, you know what you guys are
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trying to achieve. Tell me how
you want to buy and we can go
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down that direction. These are the
people that we probably need to speak to
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and we can bring them in a
room. I'll let you navigate that and
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then like hands off from there,
and I usually set up a slack channel
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for them. It gives me instant
access. It builds that bond because now
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we're you know, if you're in
slack, you're in slack with your company,
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with your colleague, with people you
know and trust. But now you're
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in a slack with me, with
someone that you don't know, and it
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kind of mimics the same trust,
that same relationship, and I've found that
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to be to be super helpful.
Just create a new slap channel, put
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the company's logo on it, invite
them. Other people get involved, invite
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them too. I don't have to
deal with email anymore. I have direct
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access to my prospects. We can
have normal conversations like we're texting, like
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we're colleagues, and that really starts
to build that trust and we get to
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move and accelerate a lot faster.
But I run an enterprise sales cycle,
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you know, we sell to a
lot of fortune five hundred companies, so
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it tends it's going to be a
little bit different when you have high velocity
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sales or, you know, a
highly transactional product where you know you're just
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turning and burning. Yeah, now
that that I completely agree with you.
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I compi agrees you just so and
I wanted to come back, coward,
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to some va you mentioned only on
so audion, you are speaking about the
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defront Saito's intense and marketing, marketing
doing game quas than the suns, gaysing
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sit trents to trust. So really
my question to you is, do you
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have any best practice? is to
show on how to make sure that all
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those departments the line to provide the
best sticks? Because to the experience.
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So, sorry, the Best Baio
experience any stage of definity. Yeah,
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he just have to have open communication
lines with everybody involved. I mean typically
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our projects we're talking to marketing,
to Demandgin, to marketing ops, to
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sales ops, to you know,
rep ops, if they have it,
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sales people, s drs, it
legal and compliance, all these people who
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don't have visibility on, you know, in my case, outreacher, sales
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offt and you know, other things
like videard and send Oso and lead data
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and all these things. If you're
in marketing like we're living in Elocile,
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you're living in Marquetto you don't really
necessarily know or maybe even care about outreach
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because it doesn't matter to your to
your quota, your performance. But it
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really helps to bring everybody together at
least once. I prefer weekly. But
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you know, we're all wearing twenty
five hats and maybe we don't have the
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top. But you need to get
visibility to people on what's happening and put
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it in a centralized place. If
you have a bi tool and that's your
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source of truth for analytics, put
it there. If sales forces your source
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of truth and you want to build
a dashboard so you can give everybody you
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know one click visibility. They log
in, they see everything. Great.
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Send that report out once a week. Keep everybody up to date. Let
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them know how many dormant contacts we
have in our sales engagement platform that might
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not be making it back to marketing. Opps needs to fix that. They
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need to fix the connection. Make
sure they're getting back nurtured. Like you
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have to feed the people in your
organization and in power them to do their
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jobs better and vice versa. So
that's really a lot of what we focus
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on with the change management piece is
breaking down those saw those bringing everybody's the
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organization. What do you care about? How are you calmed? How do
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we make your life easier? Build
that Venn Diagram? There's going to be
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outliers. Will get to them later, but, like, these are the
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core priority items that everybody cares about. So how do we streamline those technologies
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and that go to market strategy?
Okay, so, so you do you
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believe that technology actually play an important
bottom to process? By I do.
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I think about this. As you
know, a lot of companies and it's
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not just sales engaging platforms at the
sales force, it's Marquetto it's whatever the
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machine tends to run the man or
woman, and not the man or woman
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running the machine. And if you
fall victim to that, it's very easy
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to get sucked into this universe where
you're just, you know, mass blasting
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a bunch of your prospects and you're
not thinking about this, you're just trying
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to hit your numbers. So yeah, I mean technology plays a huge part
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of that and we think about wrapping
the technology around what your sales process is.
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At the end of the day,
we're all people, but we bought
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this technology to make us more productive
and help us with our job. So
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how do we take these technologies and
mold them around what you guys do and
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help enable you to sell better and
you to deliver a better buyer experience?
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Yep, I agree. We're just
right that we getting to up the end
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00:21:34.049 --> 00:21:38.049
of the conversation. To me it
was terming saite food. So thank you
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00:21:38.130 --> 00:21:42.650
so much for you in put today. If anyone wants to connect with you,
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00:21:44.170 --> 00:21:47.880
and no more about trick shop and
put the Gil you could end them's
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00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:52.240
the best way to get the gays. Yeah, Rep shop on Linkedin.
324
00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:59.720
Rep SHOPCOM OUR EV shoppecom. I'm
always open to chat. You can find
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00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:03.910
me on Linkedin. Josha, Brian
Folla travels on instagram. The OB Tries
326
00:22:04.109 --> 00:22:12.230
Tche Ob ie tr I see,
so there's a rapper, ob trice.
327
00:22:12.589 --> 00:22:15.549
He was in d twelve. My
last name is, Oh, Brian,
328
00:22:15.220 --> 00:22:18.779
so I just ran with that and
sort all my friends call me and then's
329
00:22:18.819 --> 00:22:22.460
been my name since, I know, for seventeen years, probably now.
330
00:22:23.140 --> 00:22:26.579
DB Trice, I found you just
you, Brian. There it is.
331
00:22:27.259 --> 00:22:32.849
You can see a beautiful picture of
the the Italian pat sure of you,
332
00:22:32.930 --> 00:22:34.890
but I'm not seeing the a I've
requested you. So now we will see
333
00:22:34.970 --> 00:22:37.769
for all social friends on that.
You know if should never accept me,
334
00:22:38.130 --> 00:22:44.359
I remember that. Five take the
podcast down if I don't accept you.
335
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:48.559
Yeah, that was good, though, so thanks for that, judge,
336
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:53.720
Viki was it was useful. You've
been listening to BB Revenue Acceleration. To
337
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:57.319
ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite
338
00:22:57.319 --> 00:23:00.990
podcast player. Thank you so much
for listening. Until next time,
