Episode Transcript
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You were listening to be tob revenue
acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping software
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executives stay on the cutting edge of
sales and marketing in their industry. Let's
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give him the show. Hi,
welcome to be to be a REVN new
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acceleration. My name is only am
with you and I'm here today with declan
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mullike in and or ad strategic ABM. Are You doing today? They can
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very well. Thank you and delighted
to be here in the works. When
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you talking about B to be marketing
and ABM with yourself? Yeah, well,
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you know, it's a subject,
as I told you in the in
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the in the quick intrads work prout
to the quite excites me a lot.
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So you know it's going to be, I'm sure, a great conversation.
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Today. We will be talking about
modern what modern ABM look like. But
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before we get into that conversation,
would you mind just giving us a little
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bit of background about yourself and the
company you represents? Strategy in short.
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So, Declamo keen on the CMO
of STRATEGUKBM, which is an ABM agency
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based just outside London but with a
team of employees and clients all over the
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world. So kind of one of
the kind of very few, one hundred
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percent ABM agencies that exist today,
although the numbers are growing, as ABM
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obviously is becoming more and more popular, more and more companies and people are
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getting involved. And on a personal
note, I've been involved in marketing and
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actually sales as well, for over
twenty years, originally on the connect client
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side, working for services in a
tech companies, and then the last couple
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of years I've moved agency side as
the Cemo of a marketing agency and based
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in the mountains north of Madrid.
So I have a beautiful view of a
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very, very tall mountain in front
to me. So yeah, that's me.
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Why you're lucky. I'm just just
looking outside. I've see a few
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trays with that a lot of leaves
on them anymore and quite a few cals
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going on the motorway. So that's
that's that has glamorous. Well, we
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are that this could ye, amagery
is a fantastic place. So you mentioned
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something about abm agencies becoming more and
more popular, more and more companies,
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more and more competition, and that's
kind of make me think about one of
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my first question, which is,
you know, abm was kind of a
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buzz world in two thousand and eighteen. In two thousand and seventeen. Two
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Thousand and eighteen we want to do
ABM. ABS can be setting. We
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want to do abx, which is
a little bit of a convert base everything.
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But make perception is that the ABM
methodology or even the what is kind
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of losing a little bit his birds
and he's using his momentum. Would you
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agree with that? That's a good
question actually. Would I agree with that?
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I think the answers no, I
wouldn't agree with it, and I
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think the reason why I wouldn't agree
I think like you. I think you're
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absolutely right to say it's a buzz
word. I think you're absolutely right to
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say it's a term that is very
much used and overused perhaps in many circles.
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And I think you know, part
of what we try to do the
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agency and my job as a CMO
is tried to clariss by a little bit
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what ABM is and what ABM isn't, when it's suitable and where it's not
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suitable. And I think just like
you know the term Sass, you know
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software as a service. That obvious
as a term that has become incredibly overused
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to describe almost any type of company, and I think that's very much the
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same case with ABM. If you
go back into the annals of time at
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ABM has been around in its current
form since about two thousand and three.
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One of the guests on my podcast
actually be Burgess, who's consultant to Itsm.
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She coined the phrase back in two
thousand and three and after having dinner
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with some people from accenture and some
people from UNICIES and and it's kind of
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grown over the course of almost twenty
years now to where we are today.
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But when you look at the the
numbers and you look at the the amount
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of companies that are actually doing abm, it's quite evenly split. Actually,
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when we're talking to kind of prospects
and future customers, it's kind of one
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third, one third, one third, ie. A third of companies are
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in a mature stage of their ABM
journey, one third of companies are at
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least, you know, six to
twelve months into their journey and then one
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third haven't started. So it shows
you that the market is really very much
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in the growth stage. But I
think you're right to say with anything that
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becomes popular and hot and buzz wordy, it kind of has some detractors as
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well, and I think, you
know, maybe they'll. Section of ABM
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is that lots of people spoke about
it but never really ended up doing it
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properly. I'M gonna come back to
that because I want to speak about solutions
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as well at some points. But
another is lots of automation and tools out
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there to probably do ABM at scale
and to make Dr ABM process. And
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the moment you strayed the Morledge,
you get exet ectution. We can come
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back to that later from me,
from my perspective. Sorry, I think
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two thousand and twenty was the r
Fada Right, and let me rephrase it
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because it's a bit of a world
concept. But we coped eating everyone.
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What our clients realize? They realize
that the Footsie, hundred fifty, the
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CAC, the ducks, the global
to K. you've got companies, induced
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bunch of public companies that you can't
address anymore. Okay, British, all
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weights are BND hub. You know
all the people who are in leisure industry,
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travel industry, hotels, all these
companies will probably struggling a lot of
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all the course of Cavits, you
contrally sell to them. So we saw
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around, I guess, the the
the targetable market or the addressable market of
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our clients kind of slimming down to
probably eighty seventy percent of the capactier she
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was before. But then what happened? Is it you stee of the same
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number of vendors trying to sell them
stuff and everybody's still got the same target.
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So everybody was going really out that
that the company that we are left
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with was a potential to buy,
and that's why we really saw our clients
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fully to actually trying to put a
proper approaching place. We're trying to get
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a clear on the something of the
accounts to start with. Is trying to
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get among Tho something of the Baying
Centerls, the multi vadas and having compaigns
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and really putting all the sorts process
behind it. So have you seen that
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as well? Less job? You
seem like a kind of ABM re rebonds
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through the bandinick. Well, I
think obviously we now October, eighteen months
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since kind of the sizemic event of
last you know, January, every march,
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etc. And you know companies had
to invest in digital had to invest
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in in non in person events and
obviously any type of BB marketing agency,
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any type of marketing department. Many, many questions we're being asked about.
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How can you help us grow?
How can you help us engage? How
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can you help us win new clients? So many companies have done, you
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know, quite well actually during this
whole period, because of this shift from
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in person sales led through to a
much more of a kind of a digital
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experience, whenever one like myself harmously
sitting here at home. So I think
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we have seen an explosion in the
use of ABM. We have seen the
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an explosion in the use of more
innovative means and methods and strategies for engaging
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with target accounts. So I think
I would definitely concur Audien, with what
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you've just said. Yeah, and
coming back to the point I was making,
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we're asking this very long winded question
about solutions and about automation and and
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the concept that, okay, rizards
must come because, as I invested a
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lot of money in solutions and in
tools. What are your sorts on that?
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Do you think we can actually put
to make ABM? Can need your
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to meet that scape. Well,
I think, you know, we work
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with lots of Abien technology partners and
we've got great, you know, relationships
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and we know how to use the
technology. We know where to use it,
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when to use it. That I
don't think that is the case for
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many people who are attempting either to
do good marketing or two good, to
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do good abm. So the obviously
the question here obviously is about ABM,
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but it's a wider question around marketing
in general with Martech and ABM technology.
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I think ABM vendors, I think
they've done a very, very good job
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in terms of how they've actually gone
to market, in terms of how they've
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actually marketed their own solutions and how, indeed they're actually talking about ABM and
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talking about some of the issues that
revolve around ABM and how their technology can
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solve it. I think the issue
with technology and I think, you know,
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I remember one of my first guests
on my own podcast was Sangrum Bardery,
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who's the obviously one of the CO
founders at Terminus, and even sang
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Graham said that, you know,
he would not recommend technology to a company
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starting abmay and he said, you
know, obviously he's he said, you
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know, I'm a shareholder in a
technology company, but even I wouldn't recommend
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technology to a company starting ABM because
the first thing you need when you're starting
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to think about ABM is you need
a strategy. So you should always be
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led by strategy and not be led
by technology. I think all the bells
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and whistles and all the kind of
incredible intent data and automation and personalization at
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scale, all these things that many
of these platforms offer or promise, they
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should be secondary. So the mantra
that we have at the agency is strategy
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first, technology second, and I
think if you can have that in mind
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and that's it, that's when,
whenever we're talking to kind of future customers,
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we always say to you know,
let's leave the strategy to a sorry,
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let's leave the technology rather to one
side. Let's dig down deeper into
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your strategy. What are you trying
to achieve? Who you trying to win,
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who you trying to retain, who
you're trying to grow? And let's
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build that strategy first, because then
the technology you can actually layer the technology
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on little by little once you've got
a very solid strategy in place. That's
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what we always say to our plants. That's what the big off today,
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which is around the mode on adm. so I guess if I was to
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as you when does modern ABM look
like? What it be? Gostialization first,
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strategy first, and then bring it
the glogy to do that scale.
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Well, I think that's that.
I think the technology does allow you to
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deliver at scale. If you think
about the kind of the heritage of a
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B ABM, obviously it started as
one to one and one too one was
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basically treating one account as a market
of one. So doing everything possible within
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your means, between your market and
team, your sales team, your wide
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Roldanization, to either win an account
or, more often, to grow and
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to retain the account, because most, an awful lot of one to one
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ABM is focused not on new logos, which is obviously very much always,
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you know, an obsession for many
sales teams, but actually focused on growing
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and retaining existing accounts. And that
is where really the heritage, the history
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where one to one ABM sits from. There, obviously it's evolved over the
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course of almost twenty years to embrace
want a few, which is when you're
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targeting a cluster of accounts they have
a similar business need, they belong to
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the same vertical, they have the
same business challenge or indeed want too many,
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which is when you're now trying to
do a BM at a much wider,
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larger scale, you know, hundreds
or indeed thousands of cats. The
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technology can help, of course,
but I think modern ABM, for us
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at the agency, is much more
about how you build and engaging an impactful
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account experience that you take that account
through that is a line to the value
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proposition that you have created uniquely for
this campaign and how that account or accounts,
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how they then engage over a period
of time, over a period of
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and a number of different types of
assets, digital assets, physical assets,
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online assets, offline assets, in
person events, how you take them through
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what is an effect a journey of
discovery, a journey of awareness, a
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journey of education, a journey of
influence and ultimately to get them to a
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commit stage where they commit to say
hey, I'm willing to have a conversation
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with you, I'm willing to learn
more, I'm willing to have a half
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an hour call, I'm willing to
join one of your workshops. Ultimately,
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the goal of ABM is what is
that commit that you want that account to
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do. Is it to attend to
workshop? Is it to join one of
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your kind of executive workshops or join
some kind of event? If you can,
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if you can actually design your whole
a being experience to actually deliver on
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that goal, then that, for
us is a modern ABM and I think
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you know, I'd love to a
future date show show your audience some of
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the kind of the account experiences that
we take our clients through. But they
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it's the technology that people talk about
where they talk about all we're going to
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run some programmatic ads, we're going
to we're going to run these dads here,
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run these outs there. They're going
to be bathed in these ads wherever
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they go, whether they got where, they're on the Wall Street Journal or
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The Guardian newspaper or whether they're wherever
they are, they'll cr ads. That,
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for us is not ABM. That's
just running some programatic appetizement, seeing
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some linkedin ads and hey, download
this ebook, hey get this white paper.
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That is not a BM. That's
just targeted advertising. So ABM is
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when you wrap and account in a
unique experience that is unique to them that
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they say hey, these guys they
know me, they know they know us,
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they know our business list, then
our sector. They'd clearly got something
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back can answer some of the questions
that we're asking at the moment. And
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that, for us, is what
we call an ABM account experience, and
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that is when you really start seeing
clients engaging and you really start seeing prospects
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engaging and and that is when you
start having some serious conversations, which,
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ultimately, ABM is about delivering qualified
accounts and qualified conversation to yourself teams.
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Yeah, that makes both let sense
and you know the certain that, just
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as truck, my attention where the
beginning of yourn so I was was really
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the the ABM for net new logo, so acquisition. There also is the
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ABM for existing customers. I'll do
we retain, develop expand our customers.
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But sometimes it's not even that.
It is also making them feel that they
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always the that is the best in
the market. Right. So you still
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still you still get that sort of
feeling that you just don't make a decision
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and then you just roll on with
it, but you keep on being busted
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about was going on. And I'd
like to on or something from your perspective.
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You see there is a fundamental difference
in the structure and the strategy from
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what I would call the the ABM
cells, which is kind of net you
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logo, getting getting through the door. They'll swos ABM customer success. Do
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you see more people adopting the ABN
customer success? But you know, going
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back to what I mentioned earlier,
back the kind of the the origins and
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the heritage of one to one ABM, if you know some of the people
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that I've spent a ul lot of
time talking to about this, such as
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such as Canastra or the large,
large companies in the come of the IBM's
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and the Oracles, and they've invested
in an awful lot of time using ABM
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to grow and to retain their accounts, their customers, and for many reasons.
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One because obviously it's it just makes
perfect business sense. You know,
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the cost acquisition to winning a new
account compared to keeping an accounties. It's
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obviously well documented. Also, many
companies are very good at selling but not
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very good at growing. So I
remember that and I this is one of
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the most recent podcast that I published
with the head of ABM at Fin Astra,
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which is a global Fintech company she
was explaining that the their company,
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is fantastic at winning accounts, but
they weren't so good at expanding those accounts.
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So they had this classic land versus
expand. So they were deploying abn
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for the expand part of growing account
because they were winning business, let's say,
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for example, with their software.
They were lining winning it in one
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part of the business. But clearly
most businesses are very complex businesses. They
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can have centralized buying departments, but
more often than not they have decentralized by
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departments. So ultimately, with ABM
you're looking to take what you've done well
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for one part of the business,
which could be, you know, located
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in the geographical place or it could
be located just in a different department,
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taking that success and saying to the
rest of the business, hey days,
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look what this departments is achieved,
look what they're saved, look what they've
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one, look what they've earned,
and and that is where ABM can be
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phenomenally powerful. It is telling those
stories and I think a lot of what
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we do with our clients is building
these these these stories, building a compelling
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story that can be shared internally,
building building an account experience that that can
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then be adopted and can be then
propagated throughout the wide organization to say,
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Hey, we've got this great success
happening in one part of our business.
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Why have we not taken it to
the rest of our business? Because,
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ultimately, companies are looking not only
to learn from their peers outside of their
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organizations, but they're also looking to
learn at what's working internally and from your
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prospect you when you engage, was
that of the more just a most success
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journey of the A M you did? Was a sum river of contacts?
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Or do you have a cm or
for our quisition and then your good out
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of customers successful other so what,
in the end, as a function can
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of taking the DM approach within the
business? Yes and no. I mean
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I think that what we try to
do with with all clients at the very
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beginning of the process, whether it's
met new logo or whether it's growth strategy
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or retain strategy, is get more
people involved in the beginning. So to
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get the CMO, to bring the
VP of sales to be to bring the
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VP of customer success, even to
bring the C suite, from the CEO
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to the CFO to ce journey from
the beginning you speak up out the journey
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with an a qui other than what
we do. Okay, that extens and
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I just recall one one, one
of our, you know, most recent
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customers that we've on board it.
You know the whole process starting with the
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C suite. So on the very
first called the CFO with their CEO,
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CEO, CMO and and ahead of
sales, we had the five major pillars
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of the organization were on the very
first care because they understood the importance of
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this strategy for the for the future
wellbeing of the company. So think if
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you can get it right from beginning, and very often we say to you
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know, when we're running our our
ABM campaigns for our own for our clients,
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the first thing we obviously do is
we do a huge kick off for
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the for the entire company, and
we make sure that the CMO is bringing
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these head to sales, heads customer
success, head of operations the C suite.
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Because ultimately ABM, how it differs
from anything else is it's a company
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wide strategical yeah, and it's it's
not marketing and it's not sales. It's
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actually an organization wide pivot. It's
it's a team spot. You need,
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feel says, you need to feedback
from marketing. Marketing is to dread the
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strategy. Sells need to be box
sy, Baiting and fact, you know,
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the the function that we've seen probably
slowing down. Most of the most
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of the ABM programmative being involved in
what sales and I think sometimes because,
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as you're right, you're right,
he said, if you don't invite them
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at the day board, at the
beginning in you don't explain to them,
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to them the longer term potential,
all but unity of doing it properly.
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Okay, and if you don't have
a commission planet, also can of follow
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that and you just commission them on, make new business and go and,
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you know, scalp someone for something. That's why you would have you would
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have issues. And I think we've
since a lot of sales people kind of
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looking at it, at the next
glossy thing from marketing. And I'm not
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trying to man generality here, but
this is this is resist something, as
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with all the lot and we work
directly with sells people and of course,
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part of our role, which is
going to lead me to my next question,
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part of our role is to Underston
the ABM strategy of our customers,
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because part of our role is to
have conversation. So we are, I
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believe, one of the plug in
the ABM strategy and were clock. That
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is quite interesting, because the concept
of progressive providing the concept of picking up
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information as time goes by. And
I'm going to speak to you. They
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plan today and I'm going to ask
your street question. Favorite color, favorite
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food, what's your favorite drink?
Okay, next time, that's probably it.
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If as few more question, you
will like. Okay, stop it.
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You know your inquisitive. I wout
like it. Next time I can
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ask you a few more question and
I'll start to build a profile around you.
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And when we were playing that throll
with lots of sells, people just
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sing us. You don't waste your
time, get me the meetings, get
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me through the door. I'm gonna
do all that. And then you know
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there is no information living in the
sharing system. So really, from my
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perspect even from what you said,
I completely agree with you. It's a
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team spot. Everybody needs to be
involved and I think you got each try
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getting them in the room at the
beginning, almost convincing, making the cells
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team, the CRO ID as well
as the cm idea as well as the
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customer six society. I think he's
critical for the six or some of if
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not, you will obviously get to
a hard or so. That leads me
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to my question. Now, my
last one, which is our can of
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important for me because you know,
we had a projects for running team of
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as Dr Videos and demand. I'll
do you see the rule of a s
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drs as part of that modern ABM
strategy? Well, I think ABM cannot
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work without sales. You know period
that the Americans say ABM cannot be successful
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without sales. You either have sales
in the room or it just not going
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to work. So I think you
know and I think go back to your
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point, there are you in?
I think one of the shoes, obviously,
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is the the acronym ABM, with
oft the M for marketing, and
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bed Burgers, who I mentioned earlier, who invented the term back in two
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thousand and three even she says now
you know, with hindsight, maybe I
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shouldn't have called it marketing, because
maybe I should have called it something else.
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And so whenever we talk to our
customers and our customer sales teams about
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about a BM, we often talk
about as in the count based strategy and
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we talked about it as a campaign
to win, grow and retain your most
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important accounts. So when you talk
about it in the language of accounts sales,
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whether it's a VP of sales or
an SDR or an account executive on
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account man UA, they prick up
their ears because accounts is the language of
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sales. So the key, the
key message, I always say, is
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make sure that you use the language
of sales and don't use, you know,
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a marketing. Haven't done themselves any
favors over the years, you know,
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by creating so many acronyms, you
know, nqls and sqls, and
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and giving, you know, giving
marketing qualified lead to sales and sells say,
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Hey, I don't want this or
what is this? And I haven't
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got a clue what this is.
And I've called them. Are Not interested.
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You know, marketing. I've done
it. have done themselves a disservice
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over the years building this kind of
machine, is inval machine and you know,
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kind of ebooks and white papers and
all the kind of stuff and and
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generating thousands of leads which of no
use to anybody. So, in answer
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your question, ABM is only half
of the of the coin. Without the
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other half of the coin being the
sales team to actually make it all come
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to life and having those conversations.
But everything from, as you mentioned,
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from the account selection process at the
beginning. That has to be a joint
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process between sales and marketing, with
a marketing ultimately choose the accounts or in
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you know, in many ABM program
sales to the accounts and marketing you know,
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validate them all the way through to, you know, understanding the the
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the the value proposition that it's been
created for that account, the campaign messaging
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that's been created for that account,
having their say about the campaign messaging,
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through to all the campaign assets that
are being created, the account experience that's
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been created and ultimately, all those
conversations that sales are going to be having,
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feeding all that back into the Marketing
Department or the ABM team and actually
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then, you know, recycling that
back in and back out. So I
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think my answer is that sales is
critical to the success of ABM. Well
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as good to her. There's we
believe. We believe exactly something. So
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we get to the end of the
of the session today, I decline.
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So so thanks so much for sharing
what Dean take with US always very useful.
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If anyone wants to carry on the
Congossion with you. Are Getting touch
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with strategic ABM so to get some
suppot in the journey. What's the best
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00:23:36.809 --> 00:23:38.769
way to get all of you?
Well, I'm say I'm very active on
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Linkedin, so I'm sure, Deacon
Mul key, there are too many declam
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mulkings out there. So you'll you'll
find me on Linkedin and obviously you know
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the agency is strategic abmcom, so
take that into Google and I'm sure you'll
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find us. And if anybody has
any questions, please just drop me a
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line and I'd love to engage into
to share some more insight with you.
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Third well, thank you so much. Day clanny was and that's a there's
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to be on this for today.
Thank you earlier. Thanks all your times
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then, all the best for the
future. You've been listening to BEDB revenue
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00:24:07.950 --> 00:24:11.259
acceleration. To ensure that you never
miss an episode, subscribe to the show
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00:24:11.339 --> 00:24:15.380
in your favorite podcast player. Thank
you so much for listening. Until next
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time,
