Episode Transcript
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You were listening to be to be
revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software
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executive stay on the cutting edge of
sales and marketing in their industry. Let's
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get into the show. Hi,
welcome to be to be a revenue acceleration.
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My name is Audiam, with you
and I'm here today with Mattins,
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president at sins marketing. Are You
doing today, Matt, Great, how
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are you? Very, very good. Thank you. Little bit called in
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the UK. What are you guys
say? Why are you doing the podcast
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from? I am outside of Seattle, so not super warm here either.
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It's we don't get too crazy cold
in the winter, but it's definitely deep
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in the fall here. Yeah,
we get into it thus kind of doc
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ats three PM and starting to day. So it's we're going to find refuge
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at the pub. So and so
it's gonna do. You Go. So
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today, with you met, we
will be talking about the Bob Marketing prediction
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for two thousand and twenty two.
So Super Fuscating to pick. But before
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we get into the subject, could
you just give a quick introduction to yourself,
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as well as your company, of
course, since marketing. Yeah,
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no, pleasure to be here.
My name is Matt Hines, been doing
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bb sales and marketing for twenty plus
years. Hinds Marketing. In pub speak,
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if we were in a crowded,
noisy pub, I would tell you
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that we help companies sell stuff.
We work with companies that have complex sales
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cycles and help them create predictable,
sustainable, repeatable pipeline development and growth cements.
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But sounds very similar to what we
do, but so very keme too
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to discuss in more details. Looking
at two thousand and twenty two. Now
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we are. We are in the
planning season right. Everybody's putting all the
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fore do I need, let's pick
to this creful and I think the guys
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slightly, dear friend, because hey, how many people will come at the
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INPOSS and event that we used to
do and get to let the flit from
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except right set us. I thinks
I've been changing a little bit o that.
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I say, tea mouse. Okay, if we go back to normal
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next year in twenty two. But
from your perspective, mats, what do
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you think of the main trends,
Trians, that we can expect in twenty
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two? A couple things. I
think they're deaf. I'm seeing a higher
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percent of spend on revenue technology,
so sales and marketing tools, recognizing that
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we don't just need tools to do
campaigns, but increasingly there are platforms that
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are helping companies manage their data,
better understand the data they have and take
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make use of that data. So
you don't necessarily need a bigger media spend.
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You need better insights to know what
to say to the right prospect of
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the right time and then a coordinate
that effort across channels as well as across
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customer facing teams. So we're seeing
a greater emphasis on those tools as well
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as the systems in the people to
empt to manage them. I'm also seeing
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a continued shift, and we've seen
this for years now, but a continued
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shift from things that you buy two
things that you create, or seeing more
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and more companies lean into the idea
of becoming and creating their own media channel
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to where they don't have to pay
the tacks of renting attention, that they
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can sort of create an own attention
by, you know, moving from being
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interruptive in an advertising format to being
irresistible as a source of content and insights.
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So I think that the balance between
bi versus create is changing in favor
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of create in a lot of organizations
as well. Okay. So, so,
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if I far rephrase that, the
fast tediment or on the inside the
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data is technically to beauty a bit
more pertinent. When young age we Yawin
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us all. You could be a
customers that draw marketing to a could be
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could be nick new that new customers
on it, new prospects. Right.
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Would you associate that with a bit
Morefa on account base type of shifts,
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of being more targeted? Move the
snipe all approach of us? Is the
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Machian a gain? Yeah, I
mean it's being more precise both at a
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at a contact level as well as
at an account level. Right. And
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so I think you know every the
end of the day, you the logo
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you want on the wall is the
company that's going to sign right, like
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you're trying to sign if you're in
DAB. Your targets are accounts, but
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the building will never answer your email. The logo will never attend the Demo.
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We still have to talk to people, right, and so inherently our
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communication is still one to one.
It's still people to people. So we
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can't get it. We can't change
that. But I think understanding that,
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both at an individual as well as
an account level, that there's a deeper
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level of insights, intense signals and
data that can dick and tell you out
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of an addressful market that maybe everyone
in your industry, there's a percent of
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that addressful market that are your ideal
customer, target customers based on a certain
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set of criteria, and there's a
further subset of those ideal customers, again,
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ideal accounts, that are ready to
engage with you right now. They're
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exhibiting signals that indicate they have a
problem that you can help solve. They
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may or may not know that they
have a problem, they may may or
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may not see those signals themselves.
So this is my this is why I
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say data is the missing link for
a lot of these companies. We're seeing
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many, many, invest in this
now already and continue to invest it for
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two thousand and twenty two is how
do I use my insights to figure out
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the precise companies that are ready for
my message, that are ready for my
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engagement? So I'm not sending out
tenzero direct mails at a time. I'm
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sending eighteen this week and fourteen next
week. In twenty two, the next
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week to precisely the right people with
the right message at the right time.
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That's what data and the systems behind
the data can allow for us. Yeah,
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yeah, to because I see what
we should have been from day one.
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Mean that well, sure me,
but a I think we didn't.
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I mean some of this is brand
new technology, right. They also in
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so there's a lot of emerging technology
as making this possible, and that technology
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requires a different way of operating marketing
and we're just finally in be to be
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getting to the idea for companies outside
of Sass that marketing can be a revenue
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driver of the business, the carketing
can actually sort of contribute to pipeline and
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not just do arts and crafts.
And I think historically you've also got the
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idea that like to do demand or
whether you're doing account based lead base,
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to do demand, you just go
buy leads, right, whether you buy
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campaigns or you do a booth at
the show or you sponsor or Webinar,
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that this is what marketing does,
is we buy space and convert that into
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leads. And I think increasingly we're
seeing again like bi versus create. You
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can create that great content, you
can create the insights, you can create
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the value and then figure out,
through the data and your tools and your
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systems, which of those prospects need
it right now. Yeah, that makes
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that makes up sides. Have had
that. But so you mentioned a few
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technologies, and we don't want to
promote Anywania, but you mentioned a few
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technologies at the like emailging Diecknoogi's.
Would you men sharing like a couple of
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interesting platform that you've seen recently that
you believe are actually emping some of your
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clients? So ill, friends,
all will you are walking with to a
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treat achieved. That sort of better
that I insite small pelts and then sing
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the targeting and they can keep it
all response right, I guess, at
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the end of it. Yeah,
I mean, I would say there's a
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couple things. I mean there's a
company called caliber mind that basically takes input
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from a bunch of different sources and
does the sort of the munging of to
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understand like what those different combined sources
mean and then what you know you should
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do next, and it can give
instruction to your outbound systems on when toube
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went in what to say. There's
any company called near that is doing some
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really interesting work on data intelligence.
Similarly, but it's sort of an embedded
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system that will look across all of
your systems, across your product, across
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you see R am, across your
marketing automation and give you some of those
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insights to know how to sort of
create the right message to the right person
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at the right time. Also,
I would just say sort of simple systems
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like cross beam, right. I
mean cross beam is a partner management tool
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that allows you, with trusted partners, to see immediately where there's overlap between
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you of Cross your customers, across
your prospect x, across your target account
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less and it's allowing firm companies to
have to it's giving you the capacity in
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the insight to have a more coordinated
approach, a more value based approach,
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to two prospects, to joint prospects, a joint customers. So I think
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you know those. Those those are
a couple examples in a few different situations
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of insights that allow for better communication, for better value for buyers and four
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sellers. Yeah, and the Sicle
Botle Dns that you gave me to to
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dnishort question about the trends. So
you know, Defel spot was more or
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events. More that has riven the
sign poplus model is in the concept of
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community building, that criting communities,
I think. I think people had basically
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come to you to find information.
So it's the concept, I guess,
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of of giving before you take,
and you see what people are consuming because
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you've been giving them information in that
domain, so much so that that you
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know they did the building and gustomize
the kind of natural cause. Yeah,
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I think that's part of it,
for sure. You know, I think
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you know, if you can cree, if you can create a place for
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your customers to get together and share
with each other, a place where your
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folks in your industry, birds of
a feather, can engage with each other
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without feeling they're going to get bait
and switch pitched, I think that can
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be hugely valuable. And then,
and I mean basically, if you think
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about that, I mean we're trying
to find the three to four percent of
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companies in any given industry that have
a problem that they're actively pursuing a solution
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for right and so in in in
the past we've just blindly guessed, either
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blindly guessed at which they are or
send our message to a hundred percent of
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people and hope to the three or
four percent see it in respond right.
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And so now, if you if
you have a community, if you're hosting
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the conversation, you're seeing those buying
signals play out right in front of you,
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right. But if you don't have
that community, I think you still
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we have an obligation as marketers to
reduce the noise in front of buyers,
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to get only the right message at
the right time to people, so that
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we're actually reducing the amount of communication
we do. We're reducing the marketing that
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we're doing, but doing it any
more precise and far more effective way.
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Like we're not living in a most
possible leads at the lowest possible cost scenario.
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Right now. You don't win as
a marketer by have by getting the
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most possible natural search traffic. I
don't care about the most, I care
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about the best, and so I
will take far smaller numbers if those numbers
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are more effective and efficient for me
as a seller, but also are engaging
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the buyers on the prospects at exactly
the moment where I can provide the most
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value to them. That level of
efficiency and precision is about quality, not
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quantity, and that is that is
where we are going. You know,
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it's music to my hey, has
a been in in a few conversation recently?
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Well, one of the false question
out that was ask is how big
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is your database? Has Like I'll
ridvan is that's well, the bigger yet
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that that BA is the best chokee. We've good to grab someone right and
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a concept of well, much in
the t's anymore. We can just blessed
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team at and expect people to come. First of what, there is CCPA
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into you, as there is Gdpi
in Europe. So we've got to GUTF
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CA, as you mention. I'm
glad to saying that, because I don't
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think people mentioned that enough. You
know, like we have a duty of
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cares not overwhelming the prospect, and
I think the prospect would have more respect
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for your brain if you just stop
sending the newsletter that are absolutely not relevant
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to them and try, in fact, to engage with a lot tree as
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the what do you want? How
can I help you? How can I
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remp you to develop your knowledge or
whatever? But yeah, I always get
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quite interested by that sort of question
and it's going to serve s call stuff
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very bad yours like. Well,
we may not be aligned. If you
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just want lots of data, lots
of activities, we can do that.
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But what we were as all do, is a more fou slip or approach,
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lower volume targets. It be relevant
and retindent, okay, and try
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to have a proper conversation. In
that conversation we've got to be honest with
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the prospect is a look, you
know, I want to qualify you as
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much as you want to qualify me. I don't want to find something on
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your scroot. I just don't know
some the timing. is now a good
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take to engage or on now not
a good time to engage? So yeah,
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I guess that's quite straightforward. What
you've got one Byr in one type
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of company now, I'm sure,
but you you come across destructive technologies and
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probably some of your clients are very
distructive technologies were finding the right guy is
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the big issue. Right who is
the buy with the actual Paston, because
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you may have a group of five
or six that will be involved but when
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it comes to it, they may
look at it shows it's okay. Who's
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going to take the way at out? was going to take a check book
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and pay for that stuff? And
I'd like to understand how you you know,
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the two concept that we discuse.
How can they apply to that sort
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of food? Keep Erson, now
very complex tape of Johnny. I think.
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I mean to simplify it. I
think it comes down to consensus and
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confidence. You know, there may
be like a cio that is going to
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own the purse strings and budget and
she may be the ultimate decider of whether
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we're going to buy something, but
in most in the vast majority of modern
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buying environments, the CIO is relying
on her team to help determine what is
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a priority, where should we invest, what problems should we be solved and
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who can help us solve this?
So you're looking for consensus amongst that internal
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group of buyers, users influencers to
not only decide that there's a problem we're
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solving, but also to decide which
vendor or service or technology is going to
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work to help with that. So
that consensus is important in that consensus is
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built by sort of addressing confidences and
I think my friend David Kirked, our
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first sort of talks about these four
confidences that you need to address as you're
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working through the buying process. Like
if you're if you're a seller. I
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know you've got your discovery call,
on your demo call and your objection handling
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call on your proposal stage, but
really you're working through a set of confidences.
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Do we have confidence that this is
a big enough priority to solve?
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Do we have confidence that we have
that we have quantified the size of the
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problem? Do we have confidence that
if we solve this problem that it will
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achieve a certain outcome? Do we
have confidence that this vendor in front of
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us is going to achieve all those
things for us? Right? So,
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if you think about those steps of
confidence and the consensus building amongst the group,
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yes, we all agree to those
steps of confidence. Now you've got
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yourself a buying journey and now you've
got something you can take back to the
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CIO and say we all agree,
we all have confidence and we think we're
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ready to make this decision. If
you don't have elements of those, but
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you've got someone that's just sort of
saying yes, we're going to do this,
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it's a house on say and that, if you know, if priority
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shift of a pane, I'm it
happens. You know, if you have
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a bad quarter, all of a
sudden, like the deal goes away.
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Yeah, basically you shouldn't be relaing
on one champion, champion in the organization,
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to push your stuff and sell for
you. You should actually we get
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that consensus by going toward different people. We actually called that the deep dive
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at our end. So it's obviously
slightly different and but but what we tend
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to do is, okay, what
a different type of bio. There is
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the gay with technical, the gay
with technical. What he wants to know?
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You also I'm gonna have to implement
that stuff. All Right, I'M
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gonna have to walk at the weekend. I'm not going to do night shift
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to get it going. So we
need to speak to him and other technical
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conversation with him. Say, you
know what, Nice it seem less.
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Of course everything is fine. Then
you've got the probably the budget order that
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may want to have a little bit
of a business case. They may want
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to speak to customers. What's the
written an investment? Except strike, except
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for us. So I think,
coming back to the content creation that you're
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speaking about, I think it's also
so important. Sometimes we see our clients
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and people in our network just pretty
focusing on one or two keep personal the
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gay at the top. Let's influence
again at the top, but it founded
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at the people on done these other
people that can swear it on the day,
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in fact, sometimes when he comes
from but the ups who had the
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deal. It can happen very quickly. So he's Fretty on out of making
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traytive the consensus. He's actually a
very the consensus in the confidence. Actually
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love Yourn's I think he's perfect.
So I don't know what I'm but I'm
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trying to borrow phrasing. But he
said it was like trually much better and
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I think that you know, you
in an effort to create more simplicity around
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the buying committee. I think to
your point, sometimes we try to say,
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okay, who really has the power
right, and I think you can
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answer that question, but it's going
to be insufficient. Like the more people
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you think about in the organization that
have a vested interest in this, the
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better. For example, like there's
a company here outside of Seattle that sells
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a wellness product. It's a wellness
system for companies to sort of introduce and
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help just increase wellness among their employees. So you think, okay, who's
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the buyer that? Well the CFO
IS gonna have to buy into it,
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maybe someone in hrs gonna have to
buy into it, maybe there's a benefits
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manager who's got to buy into it. But when we work with this company,
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our best source of new opportunities was
finding the enthusiasts, the people somewhere
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in the organization who were already always
organizing people to like do the the Kfun
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run right, or who were the
you know, who were the cross fit
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experts, who just really were excited
about wellness, and we're look at we'd
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look excited about a way to bring
that to work. To get them excited
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about to have them evangelize it from
the inside is going to be far more
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effective than having my twenty two year
old st are sort of pound the phones
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on that senior person who doesn't want
to answer the call. Now listen to
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Joan from accounting who says this is
a good idea. Right. So I
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think so, I think thinking and
the other the other thing you have to
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think about as well is who are
the negative influencers in this deal? So
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we can talk about building consensus and
building confidence, but if you go into
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an organization to say this is this
is a tech product, but you don't
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need it involve you can implement yourself. Will guess who gets concerned about that?
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Pitch it right, or procurement?
Procurement in many companies as the sales
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prevention department. So if you understand
up front, like what is the perspective
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of procurement your organization, how do
we make sure this deal doesn't get stalled,
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because you need this outcome as much
as I need this deal. Understanding
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all those different members is not only
going to help you build consensus but also
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help keep your deal on track.
That's Pung off. WHO THE COMING BACK?
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It will be to two thousand and
twenty two and and Y'all prediction in
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which you see. I mean I
could get on about that. To pick
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up of relevance, pelts, Inns
and out different the complexity. I love
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it, so try to retain my
self. Raid to it from it.
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I'd like to get your opinion events. So with the pund to make,
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will know about that. So we
are getting back to it. Think that
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moved online, things are kind of
coming back in person. We've seen a
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few events being post punt at the
less minute and some of them taking place.
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People posting on Linkedin are you going? Are you not going? It
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was Billi in person. Anyway,
I'd like to get you all sorts on
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that and what what you what you
on? Dust on from the marketing time
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of TRANSP next shot. You think
events will come back in Pelson? Should
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we invest in in viature? What
I usepose? Yeah, I mean,
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events are already back in person.
There's plenty of there, events that are
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happening on a regular basis. Is
everyone comfortable going to them? No.
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Is Our events going to look exactly
like they did before pandemic? No,
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of course not. But you know, we're never going to go through airports
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the same way we did before.
You know, nine hundred and eleven here
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in the US, right, and
so there's certain things that are going to
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change forever. Look, we've been
like we're as we record this where you
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know we're doing we got our video
on, we're look at each other.
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This is this is a miraculous technology
that we can do this from. You
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know, you're in the UK,
I'm several time zones away, and here
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we are doing this live like.
So we've had this kind of technology for
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maybe what like eight or ten years. You know, we've been using the
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seam actively for the last couple we've
been meeting facetoface as humans for tens of
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thousands of years at least, right
and so we are predetermined. We are
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our brains are hardwired to want to
be within, to communicate directly with other
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people, and so I think that
for that reason an others, live events
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are going to are going to are
already back and we'll continue to do well.
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I think that we're seeing an opportunity, though, to take a set
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of content and expand its reach an
impact through hybrid events. So I think
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we're going to increasingly see in person
events where you know there's certain things you
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can only get in person, certain
value you can like get in person.
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But whenever a company does, you
know, an in person event, there's
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always a percent of people that wish
they could be there but for whatever reason
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can't go right eas either money or
time or other commitments. So you can't
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just turn on a Webcam and say
we're doing a hybrid event. You're going
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to have to invest in resources and
strategies to make that hybrid work. But
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I think that's actually going to make
events even more important for companies. I
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also think by doing more online events, my hope is that more companies will
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see the event itself as the Middle
Point and perhaps the bright spot in a
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broader plot campaign plan like an event
is not a campaign. An event is
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a tactic and ideally any event that
you've been doing and we'll do moving forward
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to have a before, during and
after to help you get maximum orrow.
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So you know, I'm hopeful that
we're going to be more considered about the
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events we do. You know,
there could be sort of borderline events pre
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pandemic. They just aren't gone or
aren't invested in now, and so I
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think we'll see a little bit of
a shake out there. But we will
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continue to get on planes, will
continue to get together in person. Maybe,
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maybe events we drive two versus fly
two more for a while, but
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I'll be back. You made me
smile again about the the the events just
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being like touch point in a in
a bigger strategy. Els's just the campaign.
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You'll be sho prized about the amount
of time while we just being contacted
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to drive them on sits and we
try to pick to this prospect. It's
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okay. Well, what about face
pick to Matt is really interested by YA
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staff. They come them to the
event. What about them speaking to Matts,
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but the events in January. He
wants to speak to you now.
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Yeah, and unfortunately sometimes we'll get
peoples in that we just want them on
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hits, we just want to pay
for them on says. We just want
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that. So it's kind of that. So well, okay, but what
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we should do is to use it
as an excuse to engage. We should,
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we should use it as an excuse
to show value to shore that we
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are trying to remain riven. But
you're if it's a company event, not
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reent industry event, when you just
have a booze and you've got thousands of
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people there. Yeah, it's it's
about having a story behind it and so
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look, it's an opportunity for us
to get together. If you're not done
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as great, but it shouldn't be
the only equal to action. It should
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be one of the many qual to
action. You should look at it from
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the prospect perspective, because some people
don't want to travel and I think what
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we see, also some of the
feedback with that, is people don't want
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to travel for different reason. Obviously
a lot of it is the pumbly make
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and the risk link to it,
but I think there is more and more
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people at at becoming sustainably emotionally smart. You know, they're like, well,
348
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I'm going to take a plain to
God, I just for a couple
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of days. That's really what I
want to do. I mean what,
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I won't stop the plane from going, but my impact is I've read it
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like that because you know, it's
farmers farm a stress of a carbon footprint.
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So it's interesting. Our just thing
evolved. But coming back to the
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pond, thenics likely, and that's
question I've asked the queshion to a few
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of our guests. Have you seen
any other other trends that marketers have learned
355
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over the course of the pandemiage you
will see carrying on in the future,
356
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like pit changes? Yeah, you
know, I think that we're certainly seeing
357
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an acceleration of channels going of more
the channels being digital. But I think
358
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the companies that are winning right now, in the companies that are going to
359
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see differentiation and they see of digital
in the two thousand and twenty two,
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are those that figure out how to
make digital human right, how to make
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it something that feels interesting and that
look, I mean as we record this
362
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and on how much you do do
this on video but, like you know,
363
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it's kind of a it's a stormy
day. So then go to the
364
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office today. You know, I
got my piano behind me, I got
365
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my little Lego Chess Board up here
that I play with my kids. I
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mean, I think we are all
people behind you know, whoever's buying,
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like, you know that CIO,
they said, like, is trying to
368
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make decisions, you know, for
the company. Like is also like thinking
369
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about the Lacrosse game they got to
take their kids to the next you know,
370
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next day, and sort of is
is. You know, there were
371
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humans behind the be to be in, especially in be to be. I
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think we've out. I think for
a long time we've just treated ourselves as
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professionals. Yeah, and I think
there's a humanization of me to be.
374
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There a humanization of the B tob
sales process, there's a humanization of digital
375
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that is going to be a requirement
for companies moving forward and I think it
376
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will differentiate those that lean into it
and accept some of that personalization, some
377
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of humanization, even some of the
imperfection that will go along with accepting the
378
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humanity of just who we are and
how we engage. I'm excited for what
379
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that's going to be in to bring
this conversation for a circle. Your ability
380
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to do that with the insights you
have, by taking the data you have
381
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about someone, knowing what you do, about the whole person, the whole
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company, and make creating a more
impactful message. Don't send me six emails,
383
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you know, a week at a
time over six weeks. Find a
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way to get one message to me
at the right time with something that is
385
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most valuable to me. That will
show me that you care about my time,
386
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that will show me that you're paying
attention and leaning into what matters to
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me, and that will work for
the buyer and the seller. It's true.
388
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I mean the humanization of the conversation. One of the he had to
389
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realize my set fees. We always
had a lot of clients in the bay
390
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area and for some reason I was
traveling to so the frontis school a good
391
00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:53.480
vest. Majority of them were like, oh no, we don't need to
392
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meeting personal, let's do a zoom
call. But when we used to do
393
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the zoom called back in the days, not a lot of people used to
394
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put the camera on. You know, people would be a phone working and
395
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just the zoom call. I think
now you know you're tuly have that thing
396
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as well. People had to come
ready in the morning, prepare themselves and
397
00:24:07.470 --> 00:24:11.420
you've got the dog coming, the
cap doing, the kids coming, everybody
398
00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:14.299
screaming. You've got the Amazon Guy, got the Amazon Guy. You're probably
399
00:24:14.339 --> 00:24:18.460
at that thousand time amst that's been
doing well. Clearly everybody gets abouzon delivery
400
00:24:18.500 --> 00:24:21.980
all the time. So yeah,
I think. I think that humanization is
401
00:24:22.019 --> 00:24:26.130
quite interesting and it's something that should
have always existed. I think the small
402
00:24:26.170 --> 00:24:29.970
took I've always been quite important,
a little bit in a way, because
403
00:24:30.210 --> 00:24:33.289
but I think it is personal,
but we share a bit more Latin my
404
00:24:33.410 --> 00:24:36.769
way of thinking, being French.
But I can tell for a shot,
405
00:24:37.490 --> 00:24:41.279
when you know French, Spanish,
Italian, we don't just buy the product.
406
00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:42.799
We buye. We want to buy
the best product, but we also
407
00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:47.359
buy from a person. You buy
from an individual and you need to about
408
00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:49.359
sort of I find it very difficult
to be something. Even if someone's got
409
00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:52.069
the best product but they are just
not a nice person, I'll just don't
410
00:24:52.109 --> 00:24:56.670
really get on with them. I'll
just think that they are to fallsblow whatever.
411
00:24:56.750 --> 00:25:00.549
It's a bit more difficult for me
to just press the button and go
412
00:25:00.670 --> 00:25:04.269
for it. I don't clink of
creating something that is a bit more emotional
413
00:25:04.430 --> 00:25:10.180
than just purely commercial is, as
always been, very important and yeah,
414
00:25:10.259 --> 00:25:12.299
I think agree with you. It's
something that we will keep. Now my
415
00:25:12.380 --> 00:25:15.940
last question, because we were getting
to the end and we need to let
416
00:25:17.019 --> 00:25:19.460
you go at some point, unfortunately. Matt my last question to you,
417
00:25:19.539 --> 00:25:22.130
and it maybe like a very wide
open one, but where do you think
418
00:25:22.410 --> 00:25:26.529
to be market or treating this done
budget next joze, do you have any
419
00:25:26.609 --> 00:25:29.849
recommendation for anyone listening to us?
We've just seen scrutching the back of Dad
420
00:25:29.930 --> 00:25:32.890
Thinking, okay, should I do
the twenty Pusundays Selgy pus? And that's
421
00:25:33.049 --> 00:25:36.160
why would you put Y'alls? It's
a great question. I think the easy
422
00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:38.200
answer is okay, like what number
you need to hit next year and what
423
00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:41.559
is marketing need to support that number? Like that's the easy thing. And
424
00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:45.759
unfortunately most budgets really sort of just
look sort of a year in advance and
425
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.680
if you're only looking a year in
advance, you're going to invest in short
426
00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:52.309
term Roy efforts that are going to
fill the pipeline immediately. If I sold
427
00:25:52.349 --> 00:25:56.670
you or if Katerina if I said, Caterina, I need you to hit
428
00:25:56.710 --> 00:25:59.990
your number three years from now,
but I don't want to pay the tax
429
00:26:00.069 --> 00:26:03.579
of having to rent attention from other
places. If I told you I want
430
00:26:03.579 --> 00:26:08.019
you to build a media channel,
I want you to build attention and earn
431
00:26:08.099 --> 00:26:12.099
attention from our audience, build a
community, build the channel. What would
432
00:26:12.099 --> 00:26:17.460
you build? That may not have
sort of a queue, one pipeline Roi
433
00:26:17.539 --> 00:26:23.130
right away, but it would become
that would subsidize demand requirements, you know,
434
00:26:23.289 --> 00:26:30.250
to three years from now and it
would create massive competitive differentiation because of
435
00:26:30.369 --> 00:26:33.400
how attractive you are, because of
our attractive your content is, because of
436
00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:36.240
how attractive your community is. I'll
tell you. I mean I think that
437
00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:40.599
the companies that have invested in these
things and these don't bear fruit right right
438
00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:42.359
away. This isn't weeks months,
this is quarters and years. But if
439
00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:45.359
you're going to be around for a
while and you want to sort of get
440
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:48.950
from sort of growth phase where you're
sort of getting logos to scale phase where
441
00:26:48.990 --> 00:26:53.710
you want to grow more efficiently,
more profitably, investment in these content channels,
442
00:26:53.710 --> 00:26:57.750
investment in that community, is a
massive payout, but it takes a
443
00:26:59.309 --> 00:27:03.819
little bit of courage up front.
It takes a different conversation, not just
444
00:27:03.980 --> 00:27:06.940
with you but with your cflon with
your board, to say we have a
445
00:27:07.019 --> 00:27:10.819
vision for what this is going to
do medium and long term for the business.
446
00:27:11.059 --> 00:27:12.259
Not An easy decision to make.
I mean, and you knows,
447
00:27:12.339 --> 00:27:15.890
as we grow we're having those investment
conversations internally as well. But boy,
448
00:27:15.970 --> 00:27:18.849
I mean I think look at the
companies that are scaling. I look at
449
00:27:18.890 --> 00:27:23.890
the companies that are that don't have
to pay the Google tax because the audience
450
00:27:25.009 --> 00:27:29.609
is coming to them for questions,
they're coming to them for insights. That
451
00:27:29.809 --> 00:27:32.759
is a very powerful position to be
in. The point of this year,
452
00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:36.720
when this here I was, I
was proven wrong. Like at are you
453
00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:40.640
now about Brending, like grant me
to invest in brands. It's like now
454
00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:42.079
it's just was the point of that? We just need to do something.
455
00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:45.509
We comping results in one month,
but it's good to be need to track
456
00:27:45.589 --> 00:27:51.430
it and brand something that we invested
on and obviously we needn't try and add
457
00:27:51.470 --> 00:27:53.269
that. Youreka. Moment while when
that went to an event, in fact
458
00:27:53.309 --> 00:27:57.470
meeting with a with a prospect,
and the prospects fasten. It told me
459
00:27:57.660 --> 00:28:00.859
it's about I thought about you luck. In fact, I had street conversion
460
00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:03.980
of that nature. That's at that
said event, all these people said,
461
00:28:03.980 --> 00:28:07.500
I've thought about your lots through the
community and look at what you do online
462
00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:11.779
and everything, and I think we
need yourself. This is but really the
463
00:28:11.779 --> 00:28:12.849
question I've got to I don't know
if I kind of fault them. And
464
00:28:12.970 --> 00:28:15.089
that's the sort of things where,
wow, okay, what's that? The
465
00:28:15.089 --> 00:28:18.170
image that we created you? We've
created that image of a premium thing.
466
00:28:18.650 --> 00:28:22.730
That's you got. People are actually
been questioning your ability to do it.
467
00:28:23.250 --> 00:28:26.400
Their question in their ability to be
able to offer themselves the sales, if
468
00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:30.119
you will, and that probably took
eighteen months, two years, to kick
469
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:33.519
off. Probably a fair few argument
between get AIN and I. She probably,
470
00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:37.960
you know, drove back home and
swearing at me our car. It's
471
00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:41.950
just like, was that gay and
everything, and then now I've completely changed.
472
00:28:41.990 --> 00:28:45.349
So now we mean we say,
just is that digly co under something
473
00:28:45.390 --> 00:28:48.509
that some of the action that you
are doing? You need to do it
474
00:28:48.630 --> 00:28:52.349
because you don't want to return.
You want to you do it because you
475
00:28:52.430 --> 00:28:55.819
want to make an impact to the
community, to the people at treat it.
476
00:28:55.900 --> 00:28:57.380
You know, it's like doing the
podcast. Do we do the podcast
477
00:28:57.500 --> 00:29:02.339
to get to win business, to
get people know? We don't. We
478
00:29:02.420 --> 00:29:04.460
do podcasts because we want to say
at the bleading edge were always interested by
479
00:29:04.500 --> 00:29:08.220
the conversation. Why? We have
some fantastic guess people who are great.
480
00:29:08.380 --> 00:29:11.970
We make friends out of it and
that's creating a community, a group of
481
00:29:12.089 --> 00:29:15.009
people, and we love that.
But of course there is the knock on
482
00:29:15.089 --> 00:29:18.730
effect of a you know what,
I listen to your podcast with much really
483
00:29:18.809 --> 00:29:22.890
the conversation. I'd like to do
some business with your right, but I
484
00:29:22.130 --> 00:29:26.799
think, and the last point that
I would make to kind of compliment what
485
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:30.799
you are saying, that sometimes it's
actually better to do something for the right
486
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:34.000
reason, like right contents, do
podcasts whatever, for the right reason.
487
00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:38.589
That's she's trying to do it to
generate leads. Should come from something that's
488
00:29:38.670 --> 00:29:42.069
is good. If you focus just
on creating the leader, I don't think
489
00:29:42.109 --> 00:29:45.549
you create good stuff. You create
sellt up. Probably not really smart.
490
00:29:47.150 --> 00:29:49.190
Well in this in I'll tell you, I agree with all of you what
491
00:29:49.269 --> 00:29:52.789
you're saying, and I think some
of this comes down to like how well
492
00:29:52.859 --> 00:29:56.380
can you attribute these longer term investments
into pipeline? I mean, like I've
493
00:29:56.420 --> 00:30:00.660
had a podcast for five years.
Like I don't know everybody who listens to
494
00:30:00.740 --> 00:30:03.700
it, I don't know everybody that
subscribes to it. Do I believe it's
495
00:30:03.700 --> 00:30:06.460
a good part of our content strategy? Yes, absolutely. Do I believe
496
00:30:06.500 --> 00:30:11.369
that it is positively impacted perception,
trust, credibility and probably some pipeline?
497
00:30:11.410 --> 00:30:12.930
Yeah, do I track all that? Know, but that just because I
498
00:30:12.970 --> 00:30:15.730
can't track it doesn't mean it's not
valuable. On the other side, we
499
00:30:15.809 --> 00:30:18.970
do, and I guess Katerina knows, like we co host a CMO group
500
00:30:19.049 --> 00:30:22.000
that is grown pretty significantly over last
year and a half and in that case,
501
00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:25.519
like, we know exactly who's in
the CMO group. There is no
502
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:27.720
pitching in the CMO group. Quite
frankly, candidly, I think some of
503
00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:30.680
the CMOS in the group don't actually
know that I run a consulting business on
504
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:33.279
the you know that that I'm I
have to make payroll on. They think
505
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:36.950
I'm just a speaker, a host
of this thing. Fine, so we
506
00:30:37.029 --> 00:30:40.069
don't pitch it at all, pitch
in there at all, but because we
507
00:30:40.190 --> 00:30:41.549
know who's in it and because we
have, you know, people that are
508
00:30:41.589 --> 00:30:45.670
in it or are in a campaign
assigned as a member of the broad I
509
00:30:45.710 --> 00:30:48.029
can see what kind of pipeline comes
out of this initiative that I don't pitch
510
00:30:48.069 --> 00:30:51.700
at at all. We're like half
the members don't even know what my company
511
00:30:51.779 --> 00:30:55.660
does, but I can tell you
it's my single best contributor to pipeline in
512
00:30:55.700 --> 00:30:59.299
two thousand and twenty one, even
though it's something that I'm not pitching at.
513
00:30:59.740 --> 00:31:03.259
It's been an investment in community,
it's been an investment in content's been
514
00:31:03.299 --> 00:31:07.730
in constantly investing in and protecting the
value of the group, which means the
515
00:31:08.009 --> 00:31:12.490
opposite of pitching, the opposite of
making offers right and I'll tell you I
516
00:31:12.529 --> 00:31:15.890
mean, just having seen how that
works and having seen the eat, the
517
00:31:15.970 --> 00:31:22.960
explicit economic impact it's had on our
business. That's why we are doubling down
518
00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:26.599
on things like the podcast and linkedin
content and others, because I know that
519
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:30.799
that's impact is happening elsewhere as well, and it is the efficiency of that
520
00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:33.710
as a pipeline driver versus where I
might have to go pay and rent attention
521
00:31:33.910 --> 00:31:37.670
other people. The gap is significant. Yeah, I saw so much more
522
00:31:37.789 --> 00:31:41.829
fun to something you like. I
think, Oh yeah, there's that too.
523
00:31:41.029 --> 00:31:44.710
That mean and and the back to
your comment about sort of we it's
524
00:31:44.829 --> 00:31:47.900
you know, you we don't always
buy the best of the cheapest. Sometimes
525
00:31:47.900 --> 00:31:51.339
we buy from people we enjoy,
we buy from people we have a relationship
526
00:31:51.380 --> 00:31:55.500
with. And so when you can
build a relationship with someone through having interesting
527
00:31:55.579 --> 00:31:59.099
conversations, like by having like,
you know, by sort of just,
528
00:31:59.259 --> 00:32:00.569
you know, just, you know, being able to talk about off our
529
00:32:00.690 --> 00:32:05.329
stuff as well getting to know the
real person behind the CIO boyd, I
530
00:32:05.369 --> 00:32:08.009
mean that is such a competitive differentiator
and we'll lead the deals and then,
531
00:32:08.049 --> 00:32:13.930
you know, less point is on
that twenty is we have so many,
532
00:32:14.170 --> 00:32:15.799
so many, so many, so
many, so many prospect coming back to
533
00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:22.440
us this year from Cercai chords that
well fed you in the last two years
534
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:24.519
for us. So basically, what
I'm saying a failure on they want not
535
00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:28.880
to failure in some of the we
didn't win the deal, yeah, but
536
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:31.230
we had a conversation with the prospect
but we put ourselves from the day.
537
00:32:31.430 --> 00:32:34.869
They want to tread for us.
We want to really for them. They
538
00:32:34.950 --> 00:32:38.190
want to say difference. I think
that Onnesteem, the Sert cycle is also
539
00:32:38.349 --> 00:32:42.470
very, very key. Yeah,
that we've been speaking very much focusing on
540
00:32:42.470 --> 00:32:45.339
the marketing people, but I mean
to all the sorts people listening to us.
541
00:32:45.339 --> 00:32:47.740
I think you don't. It's very
difficult to under something when you are
542
00:32:47.740 --> 00:32:52.579
setting and you are another pressure off
for quota at actually even good explain us
543
00:32:52.579 --> 00:32:53.900
to a prospect and say to a
prospect, you know what not, I
544
00:32:53.980 --> 00:32:57.380
don't think he's for us. I
don't think there is a good fit.
545
00:32:57.460 --> 00:32:59.609
I don't know you feel about it, but I don't think there is a
546
00:32:59.650 --> 00:33:01.410
good fit. I might personally believe
that we should leave it there. Many
547
00:33:01.450 --> 00:33:05.609
we speak again in six months even. Sometimes we even give them a reast
548
00:33:05.650 --> 00:33:08.450
of competitors. We said, let's
company should go for, because you want
549
00:33:08.450 --> 00:33:12.250
that sort of business model. We
don't offer it. We can't offer it
550
00:33:12.369 --> 00:33:15.559
for that end thatch reason. So
we explain. However, I know two
551
00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:19.440
or three companies that would be my
go to if you want to go to
552
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:22.519
that business model and they do that
stuff for a bit of time and when
553
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:28.029
they come back, you know you
create that trust and nothing is so,
554
00:33:28.470 --> 00:33:31.470
so, so important that to have
the honest relationship, not just a cogno
555
00:33:31.589 --> 00:33:37.430
relationship, but that honest relationship is
what pays off. I think us,
556
00:33:37.750 --> 00:33:39.829
when I speak to my self,
s team, just myselfs Guy, don't
557
00:33:39.869 --> 00:33:44.220
need to pick up the food anymoe. No, we have referrals from people
558
00:33:44.220 --> 00:33:45.859
who like us. We speak to
US other people and they are not all
559
00:33:46.019 --> 00:33:51.420
great, but it's about planting good
seat. You leave a experience to people
560
00:33:51.740 --> 00:33:53.180
and if you live a good experience, no matter what the outcome is,
561
00:33:53.460 --> 00:33:55.769
you get a pee or you don't
get a peal, it doesn't matter.
562
00:33:57.289 --> 00:34:00.849
It's a good experience. That person
will remember that good experience and hopefully,
563
00:34:00.890 --> 00:34:02.569
when the time is right, come
back to you. Oh, tell their
564
00:34:02.609 --> 00:34:06.410
friends when they're looking for something similar
to your stuff, that they should go
565
00:34:06.490 --> 00:34:08.289
to you, because you know,
trying to trick them into something. You
566
00:34:08.409 --> 00:34:12.119
just trying to do the right thing
for everybody. Yeah, you're absolutely right.
567
00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:14.400
I mean you're back to sort of
relationships, some playing along game.
568
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:15.679
You know, if you're just thinking
about this month to month, quarter to
569
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:17.880
quarter, are you gonna buy from
me now? You can buy from me
570
00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:21.880
now. I mean that's look,
we all got to hit our number quarter
571
00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:23.869
to order, right, but I
think you know the relationships you have with
572
00:34:23.989 --> 00:34:29.030
individuals, the relationship you have with
organizations, are going to go are going
573
00:34:29.110 --> 00:34:30.949
to last day very long time.
They're going to remember how you treated them.
574
00:34:30.949 --> 00:34:34.550
They were going to remember whether you
push them into the deal they weren't
575
00:34:34.590 --> 00:34:37.630
ready for. And the way you
treat them when they're not ready to buy.
576
00:34:37.949 --> 00:34:40.260
We way you treat them when they're
not a prospect is going to heavily
577
00:34:40.380 --> 00:34:44.619
impact not only how they engage with
you when you when they are ready to
578
00:34:44.659 --> 00:34:46.460
buy, but also how they tell
other people about you. Like one of
579
00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:51.820
the lagging indicators of doing this well
is seeing that the majority of your referrals
580
00:34:51.860 --> 00:34:55.449
come from prospects, not from customers. If you have your prospect sending people
581
00:34:55.489 --> 00:34:58.570
to you because are like, I
haven't used the product yet, but but
582
00:34:58.570 --> 00:35:00.369
these guys are good, these guys
will lean in, these guys do what
583
00:35:00.449 --> 00:35:05.130
they say. These guys treat you
right and that you that. You know,
584
00:35:05.250 --> 00:35:07.000
you that that means an awful lot
and goes an awful long way and
585
00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:09.679
you know, no matter how digital, no matter how remote, no matter
586
00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:14.000
how hybrid we get in two thousand
and twenty two and beyond like that is
587
00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:17.199
going to continue to be critical.
Yeah, it is. Sometimes prospects even
588
00:35:17.239 --> 00:35:20.079
fund it to beat. Well,
you know what you tend every look.
589
00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:21.989
I'm not be too do those all
code with you? I'm not. I
590
00:35:22.070 --> 00:35:23.230
know that it's not far as we
won't move on on, but let's do
591
00:35:23.349 --> 00:35:25.510
those all codes so we can speak
about your text. I can ever think
592
00:35:25.550 --> 00:35:29.030
I'm up. Yeah, you guys, that a wall. Are you sure?
593
00:35:29.070 --> 00:35:30.989
I'm not sure. Sure it,
of course, but what are you
594
00:35:31.070 --> 00:35:34.869
trying to say it? They are. I kind of concern that you're going
595
00:35:34.909 --> 00:35:37.380
to try to when actually what you're
trying to do is just to be you
596
00:35:37.539 --> 00:35:40.659
trying, I think, being useful. This is what is what's very important,
597
00:35:40.780 --> 00:35:45.219
but unfortunately, I mean, we
could have carried on forever. I'm
598
00:35:45.260 --> 00:35:46.179
at you. I just said when
I come to Seattle or you and I
599
00:35:46.260 --> 00:35:50.050
ready to go for dinail fall beat, because I think we can have a
600
00:35:50.250 --> 00:35:52.210
we kind of a late when spick
about all of those things. Oh yeah,
601
00:35:52.250 --> 00:35:55.250
we're in a sumount of question.
But the question I ask at this
602
00:35:55.289 --> 00:36:00.369
stage of the podcast is every if
everyone wants to carry on the conversation with
603
00:36:00.489 --> 00:36:02.369
you discussed about twenty, twenty two, end beyond, because you know,
604
00:36:02.489 --> 00:36:07.000
obviously y' also to me was just
look at twenty two, but beyond,
605
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:09.400
which is which is the right one
strategy, or if they want to engage
606
00:36:09.800 --> 00:36:14.440
with the company running the paper or
fall, which I think is also important,
607
00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:17.280
and they would like to on the
wellcience marketing could support them in the
608
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:22.269
strategy and Dogo to market. What
is the best way to get all of
609
00:36:22.349 --> 00:36:24.590
you met? Yeah, thank you
for asking. I think I'm just hinds
610
00:36:24.630 --> 00:36:30.590
marketing ATI and Z MARKETINGCOM. We
got a ton a great content, all
611
00:36:30.630 --> 00:36:34.380
available for free. Lots of research, lots of benchmark reports, some best
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00:36:34.420 --> 00:36:36.940
practice guide, sort of an ongoing
stream, a good sort of what we
613
00:36:37.019 --> 00:36:39.380
think is good content that we will
either we create or we create content from
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00:36:39.380 --> 00:36:42.900
a lot of other sources. So
if you're in BB sales and marketing,
615
00:36:43.019 --> 00:36:44.940
come check it out. Take what
you want, but also for me,
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00:36:45.059 --> 00:36:49.369
I'm just Matt, Amatt at Hinds
Marketingcom. Any questions, anything I can
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00:36:49.409 --> 00:36:52.170
do for anyone? Let me know. Yeah, lots of content on your
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00:36:52.170 --> 00:36:54.769
website. Actually had a good look
and can side that you're drinking your own
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00:36:54.809 --> 00:36:58.610
Champaign, not just spicking about it
but doing it funnil send, which is
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00:36:58.650 --> 00:37:00.679
wonderful. It was actually pleasure,
might, to have you on the show
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00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:04.760
today and hope we can connect against
into too. Came on that. We
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00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:07.800
will do it again for sure.
Make sure Caterina gets more budget. You've
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00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:12.480
been listening to be to be read
the new acceleration. To ensure that you
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00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:15.230
never miss an episode, subscribe to
the show in your favorite podcast player.
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00:37:15.829 --> 00:37:19.110
Thank you so much for listening.
Until next time.
