117: B2B Marketing Trends for 2022 w/ Matt Heinz

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.960 --> 00:00:06.000 You were listening to be to be revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software 2 00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:10.189 executive stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's 3 00:00:10.189 --> 00:00:14.429 get into the show. Hi, welcome to be to be a revenue acceleration. 4 00:00:14.750 --> 00:00:17.949 My name is Audiam, with you and I'm here today with Mattins, 5 00:00:18.269 --> 00:00:21.940 president at sins marketing. Are You doing today, Matt, Great, how 6 00:00:21.980 --> 00:00:24.739 are you? Very, very good. Thank you. Little bit called in 7 00:00:24.780 --> 00:00:27.899 the UK. What are you guys say? Why are you doing the podcast 8 00:00:27.980 --> 00:00:31.579 from? I am outside of Seattle, so not super warm here either. 9 00:00:31.820 --> 00:00:34.780 It's we don't get too crazy cold in the winter, but it's definitely deep 10 00:00:34.859 --> 00:00:38.289 in the fall here. Yeah, we get into it thus kind of doc 11 00:00:38.409 --> 00:00:42.369 ats three PM and starting to day. So it's we're going to find refuge 12 00:00:42.369 --> 00:00:44.850 at the pub. So and so it's gonna do. You Go. So 13 00:00:45.009 --> 00:00:48.609 today, with you met, we will be talking about the Bob Marketing prediction 14 00:00:48.689 --> 00:00:52.159 for two thousand and twenty two. So Super Fuscating to pick. But before 15 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:56.560 we get into the subject, could you just give a quick introduction to yourself, 16 00:00:56.600 --> 00:01:00.000 as well as your company, of course, since marketing. Yeah, 17 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:02.439 no, pleasure to be here. My name is Matt Hines, been doing 18 00:01:02.920 --> 00:01:07.870 bb sales and marketing for twenty plus years. Hinds Marketing. In pub speak, 19 00:01:07.989 --> 00:01:10.390 if we were in a crowded, noisy pub, I would tell you 20 00:01:10.510 --> 00:01:14.150 that we help companies sell stuff. We work with companies that have complex sales 21 00:01:14.189 --> 00:01:19.459 cycles and help them create predictable, sustainable, repeatable pipeline development and growth cements. 22 00:01:19.540 --> 00:01:23.900 But sounds very similar to what we do, but so very keme too 23 00:01:23.299 --> 00:01:26.459 to discuss in more details. Looking at two thousand and twenty two. Now 24 00:01:26.620 --> 00:01:30.299 we are. We are in the planning season right. Everybody's putting all the 25 00:01:30.459 --> 00:01:34.209 fore do I need, let's pick to this creful and I think the guys 26 00:01:34.290 --> 00:01:38.890 slightly, dear friend, because hey, how many people will come at the 27 00:01:38.129 --> 00:01:42.290 INPOSS and event that we used to do and get to let the flit from 28 00:01:42.290 --> 00:01:45.329 except right set us. I thinks I've been changing a little bit o that. 29 00:01:45.409 --> 00:01:48.120 I say, tea mouse. Okay, if we go back to normal 30 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:52.359 next year in twenty two. But from your perspective, mats, what do 31 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:56.280 you think of the main trends, Trians, that we can expect in twenty 32 00:01:56.359 --> 00:01:59.079 two? A couple things. I think they're deaf. I'm seeing a higher 33 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:04.469 percent of spend on revenue technology, so sales and marketing tools, recognizing that 34 00:02:04.549 --> 00:02:07.590 we don't just need tools to do campaigns, but increasingly there are platforms that 35 00:02:07.590 --> 00:02:13.349 are helping companies manage their data, better understand the data they have and take 36 00:02:13.430 --> 00:02:16.539 make use of that data. So you don't necessarily need a bigger media spend. 37 00:02:16.580 --> 00:02:20.740 You need better insights to know what to say to the right prospect of 38 00:02:20.740 --> 00:02:24.219 the right time and then a coordinate that effort across channels as well as across 39 00:02:24.259 --> 00:02:30.250 customer facing teams. So we're seeing a greater emphasis on those tools as well 40 00:02:30.330 --> 00:02:35.129 as the systems in the people to empt to manage them. I'm also seeing 41 00:02:35.569 --> 00:02:38.810 a continued shift, and we've seen this for years now, but a continued 42 00:02:38.930 --> 00:02:43.449 shift from things that you buy two things that you create, or seeing more 43 00:02:43.490 --> 00:02:47.319 and more companies lean into the idea of becoming and creating their own media channel 44 00:02:47.800 --> 00:02:52.280 to where they don't have to pay the tacks of renting attention, that they 45 00:02:52.319 --> 00:02:54.879 can sort of create an own attention by, you know, moving from being 46 00:02:54.960 --> 00:03:00.550 interruptive in an advertising format to being irresistible as a source of content and insights. 47 00:03:00.990 --> 00:03:06.469 So I think that the balance between bi versus create is changing in favor 48 00:03:06.509 --> 00:03:09.469 of create in a lot of organizations as well. Okay. So, so, 49 00:03:10.069 --> 00:03:14.020 if I far rephrase that, the fast tediment or on the inside the 50 00:03:14.060 --> 00:03:19.539 data is technically to beauty a bit more pertinent. When young age we Yawin 51 00:03:19.620 --> 00:03:22.659 us all. You could be a customers that draw marketing to a could be 52 00:03:22.780 --> 00:03:24.659 could be nick new that new customers on it, new prospects. Right. 53 00:03:24.979 --> 00:03:29.330 Would you associate that with a bit Morefa on account base type of shifts, 54 00:03:29.370 --> 00:03:31.090 of being more targeted? Move the snipe all approach of us? Is the 55 00:03:31.129 --> 00:03:35.330 Machian a gain? Yeah, I mean it's being more precise both at a 56 00:03:35.889 --> 00:03:38.729 at a contact level as well as at an account level. Right. And 57 00:03:38.889 --> 00:03:42.800 so I think you know every the end of the day, you the logo 58 00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:46.439 you want on the wall is the company that's going to sign right, like 59 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:50.560 you're trying to sign if you're in DAB. Your targets are accounts, but 60 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:54.000 the building will never answer your email. The logo will never attend the Demo. 61 00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:58.430 We still have to talk to people, right, and so inherently our 62 00:03:58.469 --> 00:04:02.590 communication is still one to one. It's still people to people. So we 63 00:04:02.669 --> 00:04:05.870 can't get it. We can't change that. But I think understanding that, 64 00:04:06.030 --> 00:04:10.780 both at an individual as well as an account level, that there's a deeper 65 00:04:10.819 --> 00:04:16.339 level of insights, intense signals and data that can dick and tell you out 66 00:04:16.379 --> 00:04:20.459 of an addressful market that maybe everyone in your industry, there's a percent of 67 00:04:20.500 --> 00:04:25.449 that addressful market that are your ideal customer, target customers based on a certain 68 00:04:25.449 --> 00:04:29.730 set of criteria, and there's a further subset of those ideal customers, again, 69 00:04:29.730 --> 00:04:32.290 ideal accounts, that are ready to engage with you right now. They're 70 00:04:32.329 --> 00:04:38.050 exhibiting signals that indicate they have a problem that you can help solve. They 71 00:04:38.050 --> 00:04:40.439 may or may not know that they have a problem, they may may or 72 00:04:40.439 --> 00:04:43.560 may not see those signals themselves. So this is my this is why I 73 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:46.079 say data is the missing link for a lot of these companies. We're seeing 74 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:49.279 many, many, invest in this now already and continue to invest it for 75 00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:54.550 two thousand and twenty two is how do I use my insights to figure out 76 00:04:54.550 --> 00:04:58.350 the precise companies that are ready for my message, that are ready for my 77 00:04:58.509 --> 00:05:00.709 engagement? So I'm not sending out tenzero direct mails at a time. I'm 78 00:05:00.709 --> 00:05:04.389 sending eighteen this week and fourteen next week. In twenty two, the next 79 00:05:04.389 --> 00:05:08.220 week to precisely the right people with the right message at the right time. 80 00:05:08.579 --> 00:05:12.620 That's what data and the systems behind the data can allow for us. Yeah, 81 00:05:12.620 --> 00:05:15.300 yeah, to because I see what we should have been from day one. 82 00:05:15.860 --> 00:05:17.740 Mean that well, sure me, but a I think we didn't. 83 00:05:18.139 --> 00:05:20.850 I mean some of this is brand new technology, right. They also in 84 00:05:21.329 --> 00:05:26.490 so there's a lot of emerging technology as making this possible, and that technology 85 00:05:26.569 --> 00:05:30.410 requires a different way of operating marketing and we're just finally in be to be 86 00:05:30.490 --> 00:05:34.170 getting to the idea for companies outside of Sass that marketing can be a revenue 87 00:05:34.209 --> 00:05:40.360 driver of the business, the carketing can actually sort of contribute to pipeline and 88 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:44.000 not just do arts and crafts. And I think historically you've also got the 89 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:46.199 idea that like to do demand or whether you're doing account based lead base, 90 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:49.350 to do demand, you just go buy leads, right, whether you buy 91 00:05:49.470 --> 00:05:54.189 campaigns or you do a booth at the show or you sponsor or Webinar, 92 00:05:54.509 --> 00:05:58.110 that this is what marketing does, is we buy space and convert that into 93 00:05:58.110 --> 00:06:01.629 leads. And I think increasingly we're seeing again like bi versus create. You 94 00:06:01.790 --> 00:06:05.180 can create that great content, you can create the insights, you can create 95 00:06:05.300 --> 00:06:10.019 the value and then figure out, through the data and your tools and your 96 00:06:10.060 --> 00:06:13.620 systems, which of those prospects need it right now. Yeah, that makes 97 00:06:14.019 --> 00:06:15.980 that makes up sides. Have had that. But so you mentioned a few 98 00:06:16.019 --> 00:06:19.050 technologies, and we don't want to promote Anywania, but you mentioned a few 99 00:06:19.089 --> 00:06:23.689 technologies at the like emailging Diecknoogi's. Would you men sharing like a couple of 100 00:06:24.129 --> 00:06:30.009 interesting platform that you've seen recently that you believe are actually emping some of your 101 00:06:30.089 --> 00:06:32.439 clients? So ill, friends, all will you are walking with to a 102 00:06:32.519 --> 00:06:36.639 treat achieved. That sort of better that I insite small pelts and then sing 103 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:40.839 the targeting and they can keep it all response right, I guess, at 104 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:42.360 the end of it. Yeah, I mean, I would say there's a 105 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:46.240 couple things. I mean there's a company called caliber mind that basically takes input 106 00:06:46.439 --> 00:06:49.310 from a bunch of different sources and does the sort of the munging of to 107 00:06:49.430 --> 00:06:53.990 understand like what those different combined sources mean and then what you know you should 108 00:06:53.990 --> 00:06:57.670 do next, and it can give instruction to your outbound systems on when toube 109 00:06:58.069 --> 00:07:00.029 went in what to say. There's any company called near that is doing some 110 00:07:00.269 --> 00:07:04.100 really interesting work on data intelligence. Similarly, but it's sort of an embedded 111 00:07:04.100 --> 00:07:08.379 system that will look across all of your systems, across your product, across 112 00:07:08.420 --> 00:07:11.500 you see R am, across your marketing automation and give you some of those 113 00:07:11.540 --> 00:07:15.220 insights to know how to sort of create the right message to the right person 114 00:07:15.259 --> 00:07:17.250 at the right time. Also, I would just say sort of simple systems 115 00:07:17.370 --> 00:07:20.689 like cross beam, right. I mean cross beam is a partner management tool 116 00:07:20.930 --> 00:07:26.250 that allows you, with trusted partners, to see immediately where there's overlap between 117 00:07:26.290 --> 00:07:29.569 you of Cross your customers, across your prospect x, across your target account 118 00:07:29.569 --> 00:07:33.040 less and it's allowing firm companies to have to it's giving you the capacity in 119 00:07:33.079 --> 00:07:38.360 the insight to have a more coordinated approach, a more value based approach, 120 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:42.160 to two prospects, to joint prospects, a joint customers. So I think 121 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:45.269 you know those. Those those are a couple examples in a few different situations 122 00:07:45.509 --> 00:07:50.430 of insights that allow for better communication, for better value for buyers and four 123 00:07:50.470 --> 00:07:55.430 sellers. Yeah, and the Sicle Botle Dns that you gave me to to 124 00:07:55.470 --> 00:07:58.699 dnishort question about the trends. So you know, Defel spot was more or 125 00:07:58.779 --> 00:08:01.540 events. More that has riven the sign poplus model is in the concept of 126 00:08:01.740 --> 00:08:07.019 community building, that criting communities, I think. I think people had basically 127 00:08:07.139 --> 00:08:09.980 come to you to find information. So it's the concept, I guess, 128 00:08:11.019 --> 00:08:13.689 of of giving before you take, and you see what people are consuming because 129 00:08:13.689 --> 00:08:18.490 you've been giving them information in that domain, so much so that that you 130 00:08:18.569 --> 00:08:22.970 know they did the building and gustomize the kind of natural cause. Yeah, 131 00:08:22.050 --> 00:08:24.290 I think that's part of it, for sure. You know, I think 132 00:08:24.290 --> 00:08:28.560 you know, if you can cree, if you can create a place for 133 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:31.080 your customers to get together and share with each other, a place where your 134 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:35.240 folks in your industry, birds of a feather, can engage with each other 135 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:37.279 without feeling they're going to get bait and switch pitched, I think that can 136 00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:41.159 be hugely valuable. And then, and I mean basically, if you think 137 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:45.470 about that, I mean we're trying to find the three to four percent of 138 00:08:45.509 --> 00:08:50.269 companies in any given industry that have a problem that they're actively pursuing a solution 139 00:08:50.429 --> 00:08:56.100 for right and so in in in the past we've just blindly guessed, either 140 00:08:56.139 --> 00:08:58.539 blindly guessed at which they are or send our message to a hundred percent of 141 00:08:58.580 --> 00:09:01.500 people and hope to the three or four percent see it in respond right. 142 00:09:01.740 --> 00:09:05.299 And so now, if you if you have a community, if you're hosting 143 00:09:05.419 --> 00:09:09.049 the conversation, you're seeing those buying signals play out right in front of you, 144 00:09:09.289 --> 00:09:13.129 right. But if you don't have that community, I think you still 145 00:09:13.570 --> 00:09:18.009 we have an obligation as marketers to reduce the noise in front of buyers, 146 00:09:18.610 --> 00:09:20.690 to get only the right message at the right time to people, so that 147 00:09:20.809 --> 00:09:26.519 we're actually reducing the amount of communication we do. We're reducing the marketing that 148 00:09:26.679 --> 00:09:30.679 we're doing, but doing it any more precise and far more effective way. 149 00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:35.039 Like we're not living in a most possible leads at the lowest possible cost scenario. 150 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:37.789 Right now. You don't win as a marketer by have by getting the 151 00:09:37.870 --> 00:09:41.789 most possible natural search traffic. I don't care about the most, I care 152 00:09:41.830 --> 00:09:46.909 about the best, and so I will take far smaller numbers if those numbers 153 00:09:46.230 --> 00:09:50.029 are more effective and efficient for me as a seller, but also are engaging 154 00:09:50.470 --> 00:09:54.059 the buyers on the prospects at exactly the moment where I can provide the most 155 00:09:54.100 --> 00:09:58.419 value to them. That level of efficiency and precision is about quality, not 156 00:09:58.580 --> 00:10:01.299 quantity, and that is that is where we are going. You know, 157 00:10:01.379 --> 00:10:05.700 it's music to my hey, has a been in in a few conversation recently? 158 00:10:05.740 --> 00:10:09.570 Well, one of the false question out that was ask is how big 159 00:10:09.690 --> 00:10:13.409 is your database? Has Like I'll ridvan is that's well, the bigger yet 160 00:10:13.409 --> 00:10:16.169 that that BA is the best chokee. We've good to grab someone right and 161 00:10:18.289 --> 00:10:20.519 a concept of well, much in the t's anymore. We can just blessed 162 00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:24.120 team at and expect people to come. First of what, there is CCPA 163 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:26.879 into you, as there is Gdpi in Europe. So we've got to GUTF 164 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:28.840 CA, as you mention. I'm glad to saying that, because I don't 165 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:33.039 think people mentioned that enough. You know, like we have a duty of 166 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:37.870 cares not overwhelming the prospect, and I think the prospect would have more respect 167 00:10:37.870 --> 00:10:41.269 for your brain if you just stop sending the newsletter that are absolutely not relevant 168 00:10:41.309 --> 00:10:43.509 to them and try, in fact, to engage with a lot tree as 169 00:10:43.590 --> 00:10:46.190 the what do you want? How can I help you? How can I 170 00:10:46.230 --> 00:10:50.820 remp you to develop your knowledge or whatever? But yeah, I always get 171 00:10:50.860 --> 00:10:54.659 quite interested by that sort of question and it's going to serve s call stuff 172 00:10:54.740 --> 00:10:56.860 very bad yours like. Well, we may not be aligned. If you 173 00:10:56.940 --> 00:11:00.379 just want lots of data, lots of activities, we can do that. 174 00:11:00.580 --> 00:11:03.179 But what we were as all do, is a more fou slip or approach, 175 00:11:03.850 --> 00:11:09.690 lower volume targets. It be relevant and retindent, okay, and try 176 00:11:09.730 --> 00:11:13.649 to have a proper conversation. In that conversation we've got to be honest with 177 00:11:13.769 --> 00:11:16.090 the prospect is a look, you know, I want to qualify you as 178 00:11:16.129 --> 00:11:18.289 much as you want to qualify me. I don't want to find something on 179 00:11:18.370 --> 00:11:20.440 your scroot. I just don't know some the timing. is now a good 180 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:24.000 take to engage or on now not a good time to engage? So yeah, 181 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:30.240 I guess that's quite straightforward. What you've got one Byr in one type 182 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:33.190 of company now, I'm sure, but you you come across destructive technologies and 183 00:11:33.350 --> 00:11:39.590 probably some of your clients are very distructive technologies were finding the right guy is 184 00:11:39.629 --> 00:11:43.470 the big issue. Right who is the buy with the actual Paston, because 185 00:11:43.789 --> 00:11:46.899 you may have a group of five or six that will be involved but when 186 00:11:46.940 --> 00:11:50.139 it comes to it, they may look at it shows it's okay. Who's 187 00:11:50.139 --> 00:11:52.100 going to take the way at out? was going to take a check book 188 00:11:52.100 --> 00:11:54.659 and pay for that stuff? And I'd like to understand how you you know, 189 00:11:54.700 --> 00:11:58.659 the two concept that we discuse. How can they apply to that sort 190 00:11:58.700 --> 00:12:03.690 of food? Keep Erson, now very complex tape of Johnny. I think. 191 00:12:03.769 --> 00:12:07.490 I mean to simplify it. I think it comes down to consensus and 192 00:12:07.690 --> 00:12:11.009 confidence. You know, there may be like a cio that is going to 193 00:12:11.289 --> 00:12:16.960 own the purse strings and budget and she may be the ultimate decider of whether 194 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:20.159 we're going to buy something, but in most in the vast majority of modern 195 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:26.480 buying environments, the CIO is relying on her team to help determine what is 196 00:12:26.519 --> 00:12:31.110 a priority, where should we invest, what problems should we be solved and 197 00:12:31.269 --> 00:12:35.870 who can help us solve this? So you're looking for consensus amongst that internal 198 00:12:35.070 --> 00:12:39.909 group of buyers, users influencers to not only decide that there's a problem we're 199 00:12:39.909 --> 00:12:43.740 solving, but also to decide which vendor or service or technology is going to 200 00:12:43.820 --> 00:12:48.539 work to help with that. So that consensus is important in that consensus is 201 00:12:48.580 --> 00:12:52.899 built by sort of addressing confidences and I think my friend David Kirked, our 202 00:12:52.899 --> 00:12:56.940 first sort of talks about these four confidences that you need to address as you're 203 00:12:56.980 --> 00:12:58.889 working through the buying process. Like if you're if you're a seller. I 204 00:13:00.049 --> 00:13:03.730 know you've got your discovery call, on your demo call and your objection handling 205 00:13:03.769 --> 00:13:07.090 call on your proposal stage, but really you're working through a set of confidences. 206 00:13:07.210 --> 00:13:11.809 Do we have confidence that this is a big enough priority to solve? 207 00:13:11.889 --> 00:13:15.360 Do we have confidence that we have that we have quantified the size of the 208 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:20.159 problem? Do we have confidence that if we solve this problem that it will 209 00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:24.720 achieve a certain outcome? Do we have confidence that this vendor in front of 210 00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:26.269 us is going to achieve all those things for us? Right? So, 211 00:13:26.309 --> 00:13:31.870 if you think about those steps of confidence and the consensus building amongst the group, 212 00:13:31.990 --> 00:13:35.509 yes, we all agree to those steps of confidence. Now you've got 213 00:13:35.590 --> 00:13:39.190 yourself a buying journey and now you've got something you can take back to the 214 00:13:39.269 --> 00:13:43.820 CIO and say we all agree, we all have confidence and we think we're 215 00:13:43.860 --> 00:13:46.139 ready to make this decision. If you don't have elements of those, but 216 00:13:46.220 --> 00:13:48.259 you've got someone that's just sort of saying yes, we're going to do this, 217 00:13:48.460 --> 00:13:52.340 it's a house on say and that, if you know, if priority 218 00:13:52.419 --> 00:13:54.899 shift of a pane, I'm it happens. You know, if you have 219 00:13:54.940 --> 00:13:56.490 a bad quarter, all of a sudden, like the deal goes away. 220 00:13:56.889 --> 00:14:01.370 Yeah, basically you shouldn't be relaing on one champion, champion in the organization, 221 00:14:01.450 --> 00:14:05.450 to push your stuff and sell for you. You should actually we get 222 00:14:05.490 --> 00:14:09.730 that consensus by going toward different people. We actually called that the deep dive 223 00:14:09.769 --> 00:14:13.639 at our end. So it's obviously slightly different and but but what we tend 224 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:16.480 to do is, okay, what a different type of bio. There is 225 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:20.000 the gay with technical, the gay with technical. What he wants to know? 226 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:22.240 You also I'm gonna have to implement that stuff. All Right, I'M 227 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:26.230 gonna have to walk at the weekend. I'm not going to do night shift 228 00:14:26.389 --> 00:14:28.830 to get it going. So we need to speak to him and other technical 229 00:14:28.870 --> 00:14:31.350 conversation with him. Say, you know what, Nice it seem less. 230 00:14:31.389 --> 00:14:35.110 Of course everything is fine. Then you've got the probably the budget order that 231 00:14:35.269 --> 00:14:37.580 may want to have a little bit of a business case. They may want 232 00:14:37.580 --> 00:14:41.740 to speak to customers. What's the written an investment? Except strike, except 233 00:14:41.779 --> 00:14:45.980 for us. So I think, coming back to the content creation that you're 234 00:14:46.059 --> 00:14:48.700 speaking about, I think it's also so important. Sometimes we see our clients 235 00:14:48.740 --> 00:14:52.769 and people in our network just pretty focusing on one or two keep personal the 236 00:14:52.850 --> 00:14:56.970 gay at the top. Let's influence again at the top, but it founded 237 00:14:56.009 --> 00:14:58.490 at the people on done these other people that can swear it on the day, 238 00:14:58.570 --> 00:15:03.690 in fact, sometimes when he comes from but the ups who had the 239 00:15:03.730 --> 00:15:05.970 deal. It can happen very quickly. So he's Fretty on out of making 240 00:15:07.009 --> 00:15:11.399 traytive the consensus. He's actually a very the consensus in the confidence. Actually 241 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:13.720 love Yourn's I think he's perfect. So I don't know what I'm but I'm 242 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:16.879 trying to borrow phrasing. But he said it was like trually much better and 243 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:22.710 I think that you know, you in an effort to create more simplicity around 244 00:15:22.830 --> 00:15:24.990 the buying committee. I think to your point, sometimes we try to say, 245 00:15:24.990 --> 00:15:28.669 okay, who really has the power right, and I think you can 246 00:15:28.710 --> 00:15:31.990 answer that question, but it's going to be insufficient. Like the more people 247 00:15:33.110 --> 00:15:35.220 you think about in the organization that have a vested interest in this, the 248 00:15:35.340 --> 00:15:39.179 better. For example, like there's a company here outside of Seattle that sells 249 00:15:39.220 --> 00:15:43.940 a wellness product. It's a wellness system for companies to sort of introduce and 250 00:15:45.019 --> 00:15:46.740 help just increase wellness among their employees. So you think, okay, who's 251 00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:48.779 the buyer that? Well the CFO IS gonna have to buy into it, 252 00:15:48.899 --> 00:15:52.570 maybe someone in hrs gonna have to buy into it, maybe there's a benefits 253 00:15:52.610 --> 00:15:54.450 manager who's got to buy into it. But when we work with this company, 254 00:15:54.610 --> 00:16:00.049 our best source of new opportunities was finding the enthusiasts, the people somewhere 255 00:16:00.090 --> 00:16:06.679 in the organization who were already always organizing people to like do the the Kfun 256 00:16:06.759 --> 00:16:08.519 run right, or who were the you know, who were the cross fit 257 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:12.200 experts, who just really were excited about wellness, and we're look at we'd 258 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:15.879 look excited about a way to bring that to work. To get them excited 259 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:19.909 about to have them evangelize it from the inside is going to be far more 260 00:16:19.990 --> 00:16:23.389 effective than having my twenty two year old st are sort of pound the phones 261 00:16:23.509 --> 00:16:27.230 on that senior person who doesn't want to answer the call. Now listen to 262 00:16:27.350 --> 00:16:32.669 Joan from accounting who says this is a good idea. Right. So I 263 00:16:32.789 --> 00:16:34.460 think so, I think thinking and the other the other thing you have to 264 00:16:34.500 --> 00:16:38.019 think about as well is who are the negative influencers in this deal? So 265 00:16:38.139 --> 00:16:41.740 we can talk about building consensus and building confidence, but if you go into 266 00:16:41.779 --> 00:16:45.500 an organization to say this is this is a tech product, but you don't 267 00:16:45.539 --> 00:16:48.129 need it involve you can implement yourself. Will guess who gets concerned about that? 268 00:16:48.330 --> 00:16:53.330 Pitch it right, or procurement? Procurement in many companies as the sales 269 00:16:53.370 --> 00:16:57.090 prevention department. So if you understand up front, like what is the perspective 270 00:16:57.090 --> 00:17:00.169 of procurement your organization, how do we make sure this deal doesn't get stalled, 271 00:17:00.210 --> 00:17:03.400 because you need this outcome as much as I need this deal. Understanding 272 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:07.039 all those different members is not only going to help you build consensus but also 273 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:11.680 help keep your deal on track. That's Pung off. WHO THE COMING BACK? 274 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:14.519 It will be to two thousand and twenty two and and Y'all prediction in 275 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:17.069 which you see. I mean I could get on about that. To pick 276 00:17:17.069 --> 00:17:21.589 up of relevance, pelts, Inns and out different the complexity. I love 277 00:17:21.670 --> 00:17:23.470 it, so try to retain my self. Raid to it from it. 278 00:17:23.829 --> 00:17:27.349 I'd like to get your opinion events. So with the pund to make, 279 00:17:27.470 --> 00:17:30.259 will know about that. So we are getting back to it. Think that 280 00:17:30.380 --> 00:17:34.660 moved online, things are kind of coming back in person. We've seen a 281 00:17:34.740 --> 00:17:38.579 few events being post punt at the less minute and some of them taking place. 282 00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:42.099 People posting on Linkedin are you going? Are you not going? It 283 00:17:42.339 --> 00:17:45.730 was Billi in person. Anyway, I'd like to get you all sorts on 284 00:17:45.809 --> 00:17:48.849 that and what what you what you on? Dust on from the marketing time 285 00:17:48.930 --> 00:17:53.490 of TRANSP next shot. You think events will come back in Pelson? Should 286 00:17:53.490 --> 00:17:56.730 we invest in in viature? What I usepose? Yeah, I mean, 287 00:17:56.769 --> 00:18:00.640 events are already back in person. There's plenty of there, events that are 288 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.559 happening on a regular basis. Is everyone comfortable going to them? No. 289 00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:07.519 Is Our events going to look exactly like they did before pandemic? No, 290 00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:11.720 of course not. But you know, we're never going to go through airports 291 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:14.230 the same way we did before. You know, nine hundred and eleven here 292 00:18:14.230 --> 00:18:15.269 in the US, right, and so there's certain things that are going to 293 00:18:15.349 --> 00:18:18.950 change forever. Look, we've been like we're as we record this where you 294 00:18:19.029 --> 00:18:22.269 know we're doing we got our video on, we're look at each other. 295 00:18:22.390 --> 00:18:26.230 This is this is a miraculous technology that we can do this from. You 296 00:18:26.309 --> 00:18:27.579 know, you're in the UK, I'm several time zones away, and here 297 00:18:27.619 --> 00:18:30.940 we are doing this live like. So we've had this kind of technology for 298 00:18:32.019 --> 00:18:33.380 maybe what like eight or ten years. You know, we've been using the 299 00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:37.420 seam actively for the last couple we've been meeting facetoface as humans for tens of 300 00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:41.809 thousands of years at least, right and so we are predetermined. We are 301 00:18:41.890 --> 00:18:45.609 our brains are hardwired to want to be within, to communicate directly with other 302 00:18:45.690 --> 00:18:49.089 people, and so I think that for that reason an others, live events 303 00:18:49.089 --> 00:18:52.210 are going to are going to are already back and we'll continue to do well. 304 00:18:52.650 --> 00:18:56.119 I think that we're seeing an opportunity, though, to take a set 305 00:18:56.200 --> 00:19:02.000 of content and expand its reach an impact through hybrid events. So I think 306 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:06.279 we're going to increasingly see in person events where you know there's certain things you 307 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:07.839 can only get in person, certain value you can like get in person. 308 00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:11.230 But whenever a company does, you know, an in person event, there's 309 00:19:11.230 --> 00:19:15.309 always a percent of people that wish they could be there but for whatever reason 310 00:19:15.390 --> 00:19:18.630 can't go right eas either money or time or other commitments. So you can't 311 00:19:18.789 --> 00:19:22.630 just turn on a Webcam and say we're doing a hybrid event. You're going 312 00:19:22.670 --> 00:19:26.059 to have to invest in resources and strategies to make that hybrid work. But 313 00:19:26.220 --> 00:19:30.539 I think that's actually going to make events even more important for companies. I 314 00:19:30.619 --> 00:19:36.059 also think by doing more online events, my hope is that more companies will 315 00:19:36.059 --> 00:19:40.690 see the event itself as the Middle Point and perhaps the bright spot in a 316 00:19:40.809 --> 00:19:45.329 broader plot campaign plan like an event is not a campaign. An event is 317 00:19:45.769 --> 00:19:48.769 a tactic and ideally any event that you've been doing and we'll do moving forward 318 00:19:48.769 --> 00:19:52.240 to have a before, during and after to help you get maximum orrow. 319 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:56.160 So you know, I'm hopeful that we're going to be more considered about the 320 00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:00.359 events we do. You know, there could be sort of borderline events pre 321 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:03.000 pandemic. They just aren't gone or aren't invested in now, and so I 322 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:04.799 think we'll see a little bit of a shake out there. But we will 323 00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:08.349 continue to get on planes, will continue to get together in person. Maybe, 324 00:20:08.630 --> 00:20:11.549 maybe events we drive two versus fly two more for a while, but 325 00:20:11.630 --> 00:20:15.990 I'll be back. You made me smile again about the the the events just 326 00:20:15.109 --> 00:20:21.029 being like touch point in a in a bigger strategy. Els's just the campaign. 327 00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:23.619 You'll be sho prized about the amount of time while we just being contacted 328 00:20:23.700 --> 00:20:27.019 to drive them on sits and we try to pick to this prospect. It's 329 00:20:27.059 --> 00:20:30.740 okay. Well, what about face pick to Matt is really interested by YA 330 00:20:30.819 --> 00:20:34.809 staff. They come them to the event. What about them speaking to Matts, 331 00:20:34.890 --> 00:20:37.490 but the events in January. He wants to speak to you now. 332 00:20:38.049 --> 00:20:41.769 Yeah, and unfortunately sometimes we'll get peoples in that we just want them on 333 00:20:41.849 --> 00:20:44.809 hits, we just want to pay for them on says. We just want 334 00:20:44.890 --> 00:20:45.970 that. So it's kind of that. So well, okay, but what 335 00:20:47.049 --> 00:20:48.730 we should do is to use it as an excuse to engage. We should, 336 00:20:48.849 --> 00:20:52.759 we should use it as an excuse to show value to shore that we 337 00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:56.319 are trying to remain riven. But you're if it's a company event, not 338 00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:59.279 reent industry event, when you just have a booze and you've got thousands of 339 00:20:59.319 --> 00:21:02.880 people there. Yeah, it's it's about having a story behind it and so 340 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:04.910 look, it's an opportunity for us to get together. If you're not done 341 00:21:04.910 --> 00:21:08.309 as great, but it shouldn't be the only equal to action. It should 342 00:21:08.309 --> 00:21:11.509 be one of the many qual to action. You should look at it from 343 00:21:11.509 --> 00:21:15.509 the prospect perspective, because some people don't want to travel and I think what 344 00:21:15.670 --> 00:21:18.619 we see, also some of the feedback with that, is people don't want 345 00:21:18.619 --> 00:21:22.220 to travel for different reason. Obviously a lot of it is the pumbly make 346 00:21:22.259 --> 00:21:25.660 and the risk link to it, but I think there is more and more 347 00:21:25.700 --> 00:21:30.500 people at at becoming sustainably emotionally smart. You know, they're like, well, 348 00:21:30.579 --> 00:21:32.660 I'm going to take a plain to God, I just for a couple 349 00:21:32.700 --> 00:21:33.769 of days. That's really what I want to do. I mean what, 350 00:21:33.849 --> 00:21:37.369 I won't stop the plane from going, but my impact is I've read it 351 00:21:37.450 --> 00:21:41.809 like that because you know, it's farmers farm a stress of a carbon footprint. 352 00:21:42.289 --> 00:21:47.279 So it's interesting. Our just thing evolved. But coming back to the 353 00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:49.240 pond, thenics likely, and that's question I've asked the queshion to a few 354 00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:53.720 of our guests. Have you seen any other other trends that marketers have learned 355 00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:57.160 over the course of the pandemiage you will see carrying on in the future, 356 00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:00.950 like pit changes? Yeah, you know, I think that we're certainly seeing 357 00:22:02.190 --> 00:22:06.470 an acceleration of channels going of more the channels being digital. But I think 358 00:22:06.509 --> 00:22:08.390 the companies that are winning right now, in the companies that are going to 359 00:22:08.470 --> 00:22:11.710 see differentiation and they see of digital in the two thousand and twenty two, 360 00:22:11.750 --> 00:22:15.460 are those that figure out how to make digital human right, how to make 361 00:22:15.500 --> 00:22:18.700 it something that feels interesting and that look, I mean as we record this 362 00:22:18.779 --> 00:22:21.740 and on how much you do do this on video but, like you know, 363 00:22:21.819 --> 00:22:22.740 it's kind of a it's a stormy day. So then go to the 364 00:22:22.819 --> 00:22:26.220 office today. You know, I got my piano behind me, I got 365 00:22:26.299 --> 00:22:27.740 my little Lego Chess Board up here that I play with my kids. I 366 00:22:27.819 --> 00:22:32.009 mean, I think we are all people behind you know, whoever's buying, 367 00:22:32.170 --> 00:22:33.210 like, you know that CIO, they said, like, is trying to 368 00:22:33.250 --> 00:22:37.690 make decisions, you know, for the company. Like is also like thinking 369 00:22:37.690 --> 00:22:40.009 about the Lacrosse game they got to take their kids to the next you know, 370 00:22:40.089 --> 00:22:41.690 next day, and sort of is is. You know, there were 371 00:22:41.769 --> 00:22:45.160 humans behind the be to be in, especially in be to be. I 372 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:48.440 think we've out. I think for a long time we've just treated ourselves as 373 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:52.480 professionals. Yeah, and I think there's a humanization of me to be. 374 00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:56.200 There a humanization of the B tob sales process, there's a humanization of digital 375 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:00.829 that is going to be a requirement for companies moving forward and I think it 376 00:23:00.950 --> 00:23:04.509 will differentiate those that lean into it and accept some of that personalization, some 377 00:23:04.589 --> 00:23:08.549 of humanization, even some of the imperfection that will go along with accepting the 378 00:23:08.589 --> 00:23:12.779 humanity of just who we are and how we engage. I'm excited for what 379 00:23:12.900 --> 00:23:15.980 that's going to be in to bring this conversation for a circle. Your ability 380 00:23:17.019 --> 00:23:18.819 to do that with the insights you have, by taking the data you have 381 00:23:18.940 --> 00:23:22.819 about someone, knowing what you do, about the whole person, the whole 382 00:23:22.819 --> 00:23:26.019 company, and make creating a more impactful message. Don't send me six emails, 383 00:23:26.410 --> 00:23:29.609 you know, a week at a time over six weeks. Find a 384 00:23:29.690 --> 00:23:32.049 way to get one message to me at the right time with something that is 385 00:23:32.130 --> 00:23:34.730 most valuable to me. That will show me that you care about my time, 386 00:23:34.809 --> 00:23:38.130 that will show me that you're paying attention and leaning into what matters to 387 00:23:38.170 --> 00:23:41.960 me, and that will work for the buyer and the seller. It's true. 388 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:45.319 I mean the humanization of the conversation. One of the he had to 389 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:48.920 realize my set fees. We always had a lot of clients in the bay 390 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:52.319 area and for some reason I was traveling to so the frontis school a good 391 00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:53.480 vest. Majority of them were like, oh no, we don't need to 392 00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:56.150 meeting personal, let's do a zoom call. But when we used to do 393 00:23:56.230 --> 00:23:59.710 the zoom called back in the days, not a lot of people used to 394 00:23:59.750 --> 00:24:02.509 put the camera on. You know, people would be a phone working and 395 00:24:02.589 --> 00:24:04.230 just the zoom call. I think now you know you're tuly have that thing 396 00:24:04.230 --> 00:24:07.390 as well. People had to come ready in the morning, prepare themselves and 397 00:24:07.470 --> 00:24:11.420 you've got the dog coming, the cap doing, the kids coming, everybody 398 00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:14.299 screaming. You've got the Amazon Guy, got the Amazon Guy. You're probably 399 00:24:14.339 --> 00:24:18.460 at that thousand time amst that's been doing well. Clearly everybody gets abouzon delivery 400 00:24:18.500 --> 00:24:21.980 all the time. So yeah, I think. I think that humanization is 401 00:24:22.019 --> 00:24:26.130 quite interesting and it's something that should have always existed. I think the small 402 00:24:26.170 --> 00:24:29.970 took I've always been quite important, a little bit in a way, because 403 00:24:30.210 --> 00:24:33.289 but I think it is personal, but we share a bit more Latin my 404 00:24:33.410 --> 00:24:36.769 way of thinking, being French. But I can tell for a shot, 405 00:24:37.490 --> 00:24:41.279 when you know French, Spanish, Italian, we don't just buy the product. 406 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:42.799 We buye. We want to buy the best product, but we also 407 00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:47.359 buy from a person. You buy from an individual and you need to about 408 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:49.359 sort of I find it very difficult to be something. Even if someone's got 409 00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:52.069 the best product but they are just not a nice person, I'll just don't 410 00:24:52.109 --> 00:24:56.670 really get on with them. I'll just think that they are to fallsblow whatever. 411 00:24:56.750 --> 00:25:00.549 It's a bit more difficult for me to just press the button and go 412 00:25:00.670 --> 00:25:04.269 for it. I don't clink of creating something that is a bit more emotional 413 00:25:04.430 --> 00:25:10.180 than just purely commercial is, as always been, very important and yeah, 414 00:25:10.259 --> 00:25:12.299 I think agree with you. It's something that we will keep. Now my 415 00:25:12.380 --> 00:25:15.940 last question, because we were getting to the end and we need to let 416 00:25:17.019 --> 00:25:19.460 you go at some point, unfortunately. Matt my last question to you, 417 00:25:19.539 --> 00:25:22.130 and it maybe like a very wide open one, but where do you think 418 00:25:22.410 --> 00:25:26.529 to be market or treating this done budget next joze, do you have any 419 00:25:26.609 --> 00:25:29.849 recommendation for anyone listening to us? We've just seen scrutching the back of Dad 420 00:25:29.930 --> 00:25:32.890 Thinking, okay, should I do the twenty Pusundays Selgy pus? And that's 421 00:25:33.049 --> 00:25:36.160 why would you put Y'alls? It's a great question. I think the easy 422 00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:38.200 answer is okay, like what number you need to hit next year and what 423 00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:41.559 is marketing need to support that number? Like that's the easy thing. And 424 00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:45.759 unfortunately most budgets really sort of just look sort of a year in advance and 425 00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.680 if you're only looking a year in advance, you're going to invest in short 426 00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:52.309 term Roy efforts that are going to fill the pipeline immediately. If I sold 427 00:25:52.349 --> 00:25:56.670 you or if Katerina if I said, Caterina, I need you to hit 428 00:25:56.710 --> 00:25:59.990 your number three years from now, but I don't want to pay the tax 429 00:26:00.069 --> 00:26:03.579 of having to rent attention from other places. If I told you I want 430 00:26:03.579 --> 00:26:08.019 you to build a media channel, I want you to build attention and earn 431 00:26:08.099 --> 00:26:12.099 attention from our audience, build a community, build the channel. What would 432 00:26:12.099 --> 00:26:17.460 you build? That may not have sort of a queue, one pipeline Roi 433 00:26:17.539 --> 00:26:23.130 right away, but it would become that would subsidize demand requirements, you know, 434 00:26:23.289 --> 00:26:30.250 to three years from now and it would create massive competitive differentiation because of 435 00:26:30.369 --> 00:26:33.400 how attractive you are, because of our attractive your content is, because of 436 00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:36.240 how attractive your community is. I'll tell you. I mean I think that 437 00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:40.599 the companies that have invested in these things and these don't bear fruit right right 438 00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:42.359 away. This isn't weeks months, this is quarters and years. But if 439 00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:45.359 you're going to be around for a while and you want to sort of get 440 00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:48.950 from sort of growth phase where you're sort of getting logos to scale phase where 441 00:26:48.990 --> 00:26:53.710 you want to grow more efficiently, more profitably, investment in these content channels, 442 00:26:53.710 --> 00:26:57.750 investment in that community, is a massive payout, but it takes a 443 00:26:59.309 --> 00:27:03.819 little bit of courage up front. It takes a different conversation, not just 444 00:27:03.980 --> 00:27:06.940 with you but with your cflon with your board, to say we have a 445 00:27:07.019 --> 00:27:10.819 vision for what this is going to do medium and long term for the business. 446 00:27:11.059 --> 00:27:12.259 Not An easy decision to make. I mean, and you knows, 447 00:27:12.339 --> 00:27:15.890 as we grow we're having those investment conversations internally as well. But boy, 448 00:27:15.970 --> 00:27:18.849 I mean I think look at the companies that are scaling. I look at 449 00:27:18.890 --> 00:27:23.890 the companies that are that don't have to pay the Google tax because the audience 450 00:27:25.009 --> 00:27:29.609 is coming to them for questions, they're coming to them for insights. That 451 00:27:29.809 --> 00:27:32.759 is a very powerful position to be in. The point of this year, 452 00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:36.720 when this here I was, I was proven wrong. Like at are you 453 00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:40.640 now about Brending, like grant me to invest in brands. It's like now 454 00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:42.079 it's just was the point of that? We just need to do something. 455 00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:45.509 We comping results in one month, but it's good to be need to track 456 00:27:45.589 --> 00:27:51.430 it and brand something that we invested on and obviously we needn't try and add 457 00:27:51.470 --> 00:27:53.269 that. Youreka. Moment while when that went to an event, in fact 458 00:27:53.309 --> 00:27:57.470 meeting with a with a prospect, and the prospects fasten. It told me 459 00:27:57.660 --> 00:28:00.859 it's about I thought about you luck. In fact, I had street conversion 460 00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:03.980 of that nature. That's at that said event, all these people said, 461 00:28:03.980 --> 00:28:07.500 I've thought about your lots through the community and look at what you do online 462 00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:11.779 and everything, and I think we need yourself. This is but really the 463 00:28:11.779 --> 00:28:12.849 question I've got to I don't know if I kind of fault them. And 464 00:28:12.970 --> 00:28:15.089 that's the sort of things where, wow, okay, what's that? The 465 00:28:15.089 --> 00:28:18.170 image that we created you? We've created that image of a premium thing. 466 00:28:18.650 --> 00:28:22.730 That's you got. People are actually been questioning your ability to do it. 467 00:28:23.250 --> 00:28:26.400 Their question in their ability to be able to offer themselves the sales, if 468 00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:30.119 you will, and that probably took eighteen months, two years, to kick 469 00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:33.519 off. Probably a fair few argument between get AIN and I. She probably, 470 00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:37.960 you know, drove back home and swearing at me our car. It's 471 00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:41.950 just like, was that gay and everything, and then now I've completely changed. 472 00:28:41.990 --> 00:28:45.349 So now we mean we say, just is that digly co under something 473 00:28:45.390 --> 00:28:48.509 that some of the action that you are doing? You need to do it 474 00:28:48.630 --> 00:28:52.349 because you don't want to return. You want to you do it because you 475 00:28:52.430 --> 00:28:55.819 want to make an impact to the community, to the people at treat it. 476 00:28:55.900 --> 00:28:57.380 You know, it's like doing the podcast. Do we do the podcast 477 00:28:57.500 --> 00:29:02.339 to get to win business, to get people know? We don't. We 478 00:29:02.420 --> 00:29:04.460 do podcasts because we want to say at the bleading edge were always interested by 479 00:29:04.500 --> 00:29:08.220 the conversation. Why? We have some fantastic guess people who are great. 480 00:29:08.380 --> 00:29:11.970 We make friends out of it and that's creating a community, a group of 481 00:29:12.089 --> 00:29:15.009 people, and we love that. But of course there is the knock on 482 00:29:15.089 --> 00:29:18.730 effect of a you know what, I listen to your podcast with much really 483 00:29:18.809 --> 00:29:22.890 the conversation. I'd like to do some business with your right, but I 484 00:29:22.130 --> 00:29:26.799 think, and the last point that I would make to kind of compliment what 485 00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:30.799 you are saying, that sometimes it's actually better to do something for the right 486 00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:34.000 reason, like right contents, do podcasts whatever, for the right reason. 487 00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:38.589 That's she's trying to do it to generate leads. Should come from something that's 488 00:29:38.670 --> 00:29:42.069 is good. If you focus just on creating the leader, I don't think 489 00:29:42.109 --> 00:29:45.549 you create good stuff. You create sellt up. Probably not really smart. 490 00:29:47.150 --> 00:29:49.190 Well in this in I'll tell you, I agree with all of you what 491 00:29:49.269 --> 00:29:52.789 you're saying, and I think some of this comes down to like how well 492 00:29:52.859 --> 00:29:56.380 can you attribute these longer term investments into pipeline? I mean, like I've 493 00:29:56.420 --> 00:30:00.660 had a podcast for five years. Like I don't know everybody who listens to 494 00:30:00.740 --> 00:30:03.700 it, I don't know everybody that subscribes to it. Do I believe it's 495 00:30:03.700 --> 00:30:06.460 a good part of our content strategy? Yes, absolutely. Do I believe 496 00:30:06.500 --> 00:30:11.369 that it is positively impacted perception, trust, credibility and probably some pipeline? 497 00:30:11.410 --> 00:30:12.930 Yeah, do I track all that? Know, but that just because I 498 00:30:12.970 --> 00:30:15.730 can't track it doesn't mean it's not valuable. On the other side, we 499 00:30:15.809 --> 00:30:18.970 do, and I guess Katerina knows, like we co host a CMO group 500 00:30:19.049 --> 00:30:22.000 that is grown pretty significantly over last year and a half and in that case, 501 00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:25.519 like, we know exactly who's in the CMO group. There is no 502 00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:27.720 pitching in the CMO group. Quite frankly, candidly, I think some of 503 00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:30.680 the CMOS in the group don't actually know that I run a consulting business on 504 00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:33.279 the you know that that I'm I have to make payroll on. They think 505 00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:36.950 I'm just a speaker, a host of this thing. Fine, so we 506 00:30:37.029 --> 00:30:40.069 don't pitch it at all, pitch in there at all, but because we 507 00:30:40.190 --> 00:30:41.549 know who's in it and because we have, you know, people that are 508 00:30:41.589 --> 00:30:45.670 in it or are in a campaign assigned as a member of the broad I 509 00:30:45.710 --> 00:30:48.029 can see what kind of pipeline comes out of this initiative that I don't pitch 510 00:30:48.069 --> 00:30:51.700 at at all. We're like half the members don't even know what my company 511 00:30:51.779 --> 00:30:55.660 does, but I can tell you it's my single best contributor to pipeline in 512 00:30:55.700 --> 00:30:59.299 two thousand and twenty one, even though it's something that I'm not pitching at. 513 00:30:59.740 --> 00:31:03.259 It's been an investment in community, it's been an investment in content's been 514 00:31:03.299 --> 00:31:07.730 in constantly investing in and protecting the value of the group, which means the 515 00:31:08.009 --> 00:31:12.490 opposite of pitching, the opposite of making offers right and I'll tell you I 516 00:31:12.529 --> 00:31:15.890 mean, just having seen how that works and having seen the eat, the 517 00:31:15.970 --> 00:31:22.960 explicit economic impact it's had on our business. That's why we are doubling down 518 00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:26.599 on things like the podcast and linkedin content and others, because I know that 519 00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:30.799 that's impact is happening elsewhere as well, and it is the efficiency of that 520 00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:33.710 as a pipeline driver versus where I might have to go pay and rent attention 521 00:31:33.910 --> 00:31:37.670 other people. The gap is significant. Yeah, I saw so much more 522 00:31:37.789 --> 00:31:41.829 fun to something you like. I think, Oh yeah, there's that too. 523 00:31:41.029 --> 00:31:44.710 That mean and and the back to your comment about sort of we it's 524 00:31:44.829 --> 00:31:47.900 you know, you we don't always buy the best of the cheapest. Sometimes 525 00:31:47.900 --> 00:31:51.339 we buy from people we enjoy, we buy from people we have a relationship 526 00:31:51.380 --> 00:31:55.500 with. And so when you can build a relationship with someone through having interesting 527 00:31:55.579 --> 00:31:59.099 conversations, like by having like, you know, by sort of just, 528 00:31:59.259 --> 00:32:00.569 you know, just, you know, being able to talk about off our 529 00:32:00.690 --> 00:32:05.329 stuff as well getting to know the real person behind the CIO boyd, I 530 00:32:05.369 --> 00:32:08.009 mean that is such a competitive differentiator and we'll lead the deals and then, 531 00:32:08.049 --> 00:32:13.930 you know, less point is on that twenty is we have so many, 532 00:32:14.170 --> 00:32:15.799 so many, so many, so many, so many prospect coming back to 533 00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:22.440 us this year from Cercai chords that well fed you in the last two years 534 00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:24.519 for us. So basically, what I'm saying a failure on they want not 535 00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:28.880 to failure in some of the we didn't win the deal, yeah, but 536 00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:31.230 we had a conversation with the prospect but we put ourselves from the day. 537 00:32:31.430 --> 00:32:34.869 They want to tread for us. We want to really for them. They 538 00:32:34.950 --> 00:32:38.190 want to say difference. I think that Onnesteem, the Sert cycle is also 539 00:32:38.349 --> 00:32:42.470 very, very key. Yeah, that we've been speaking very much focusing on 540 00:32:42.470 --> 00:32:45.339 the marketing people, but I mean to all the sorts people listening to us. 541 00:32:45.339 --> 00:32:47.740 I think you don't. It's very difficult to under something when you are 542 00:32:47.740 --> 00:32:52.579 setting and you are another pressure off for quota at actually even good explain us 543 00:32:52.579 --> 00:32:53.900 to a prospect and say to a prospect, you know what not, I 544 00:32:53.980 --> 00:32:57.380 don't think he's for us. I don't think there is a good fit. 545 00:32:57.460 --> 00:32:59.609 I don't know you feel about it, but I don't think there is a 546 00:32:59.650 --> 00:33:01.410 good fit. I might personally believe that we should leave it there. Many 547 00:33:01.450 --> 00:33:05.609 we speak again in six months even. Sometimes we even give them a reast 548 00:33:05.650 --> 00:33:08.450 of competitors. We said, let's company should go for, because you want 549 00:33:08.450 --> 00:33:12.250 that sort of business model. We don't offer it. We can't offer it 550 00:33:12.369 --> 00:33:15.559 for that end thatch reason. So we explain. However, I know two 551 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:19.440 or three companies that would be my go to if you want to go to 552 00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:22.519 that business model and they do that stuff for a bit of time and when 553 00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:28.029 they come back, you know you create that trust and nothing is so, 554 00:33:28.470 --> 00:33:31.470 so, so important that to have the honest relationship, not just a cogno 555 00:33:31.589 --> 00:33:37.430 relationship, but that honest relationship is what pays off. I think us, 556 00:33:37.750 --> 00:33:39.829 when I speak to my self, s team, just myselfs Guy, don't 557 00:33:39.869 --> 00:33:44.220 need to pick up the food anymoe. No, we have referrals from people 558 00:33:44.220 --> 00:33:45.859 who like us. We speak to US other people and they are not all 559 00:33:46.019 --> 00:33:51.420 great, but it's about planting good seat. You leave a experience to people 560 00:33:51.740 --> 00:33:53.180 and if you live a good experience, no matter what the outcome is, 561 00:33:53.460 --> 00:33:55.769 you get a pee or you don't get a peal, it doesn't matter. 562 00:33:57.289 --> 00:34:00.849 It's a good experience. That person will remember that good experience and hopefully, 563 00:34:00.890 --> 00:34:02.569 when the time is right, come back to you. Oh, tell their 564 00:34:02.609 --> 00:34:06.410 friends when they're looking for something similar to your stuff, that they should go 565 00:34:06.490 --> 00:34:08.289 to you, because you know, trying to trick them into something. You 566 00:34:08.409 --> 00:34:12.119 just trying to do the right thing for everybody. Yeah, you're absolutely right. 567 00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:14.400 I mean you're back to sort of relationships, some playing along game. 568 00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:15.679 You know, if you're just thinking about this month to month, quarter to 569 00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:17.880 quarter, are you gonna buy from me now? You can buy from me 570 00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:21.880 now. I mean that's look, we all got to hit our number quarter 571 00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:23.869 to order, right, but I think you know the relationships you have with 572 00:34:23.989 --> 00:34:29.030 individuals, the relationship you have with organizations, are going to go are going 573 00:34:29.110 --> 00:34:30.949 to last day very long time. They're going to remember how you treated them. 574 00:34:30.949 --> 00:34:34.550 They were going to remember whether you push them into the deal they weren't 575 00:34:34.590 --> 00:34:37.630 ready for. And the way you treat them when they're not ready to buy. 576 00:34:37.949 --> 00:34:40.260 We way you treat them when they're not a prospect is going to heavily 577 00:34:40.380 --> 00:34:44.619 impact not only how they engage with you when you when they are ready to 578 00:34:44.659 --> 00:34:46.460 buy, but also how they tell other people about you. Like one of 579 00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:51.820 the lagging indicators of doing this well is seeing that the majority of your referrals 580 00:34:51.860 --> 00:34:55.449 come from prospects, not from customers. If you have your prospect sending people 581 00:34:55.489 --> 00:34:58.570 to you because are like, I haven't used the product yet, but but 582 00:34:58.570 --> 00:35:00.369 these guys are good, these guys will lean in, these guys do what 583 00:35:00.449 --> 00:35:05.130 they say. These guys treat you right and that you that. You know, 584 00:35:05.250 --> 00:35:07.000 you that that means an awful lot and goes an awful long way and 585 00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:09.679 you know, no matter how digital, no matter how remote, no matter 586 00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:14.000 how hybrid we get in two thousand and twenty two and beyond like that is 587 00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:17.199 going to continue to be critical. Yeah, it is. Sometimes prospects even 588 00:35:17.239 --> 00:35:20.079 fund it to beat. Well, you know what you tend every look. 589 00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:21.989 I'm not be too do those all code with you? I'm not. I 590 00:35:22.070 --> 00:35:23.230 know that it's not far as we won't move on on, but let's do 591 00:35:23.349 --> 00:35:25.510 those all codes so we can speak about your text. I can ever think 592 00:35:25.550 --> 00:35:29.030 I'm up. Yeah, you guys, that a wall. Are you sure? 593 00:35:29.070 --> 00:35:30.989 I'm not sure. Sure it, of course, but what are you 594 00:35:31.070 --> 00:35:34.869 trying to say it? They are. I kind of concern that you're going 595 00:35:34.909 --> 00:35:37.380 to try to when actually what you're trying to do is just to be you 596 00:35:37.539 --> 00:35:40.659 trying, I think, being useful. This is what is what's very important, 597 00:35:40.780 --> 00:35:45.219 but unfortunately, I mean, we could have carried on forever. I'm 598 00:35:45.260 --> 00:35:46.179 at you. I just said when I come to Seattle or you and I 599 00:35:46.260 --> 00:35:50.050 ready to go for dinail fall beat, because I think we can have a 600 00:35:50.250 --> 00:35:52.210 we kind of a late when spick about all of those things. Oh yeah, 601 00:35:52.250 --> 00:35:55.250 we're in a sumount of question. But the question I ask at this 602 00:35:55.289 --> 00:36:00.369 stage of the podcast is every if everyone wants to carry on the conversation with 603 00:36:00.489 --> 00:36:02.369 you discussed about twenty, twenty two, end beyond, because you know, 604 00:36:02.489 --> 00:36:07.000 obviously y' also to me was just look at twenty two, but beyond, 605 00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:09.400 which is which is the right one strategy, or if they want to engage 606 00:36:09.800 --> 00:36:14.440 with the company running the paper or fall, which I think is also important, 607 00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:17.280 and they would like to on the wellcience marketing could support them in the 608 00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:22.269 strategy and Dogo to market. What is the best way to get all of 609 00:36:22.349 --> 00:36:24.590 you met? Yeah, thank you for asking. I think I'm just hinds 610 00:36:24.630 --> 00:36:30.590 marketing ATI and Z MARKETINGCOM. We got a ton a great content, all 611 00:36:30.630 --> 00:36:34.380 available for free. Lots of research, lots of benchmark reports, some best 612 00:36:34.420 --> 00:36:36.940 practice guide, sort of an ongoing stream, a good sort of what we 613 00:36:37.019 --> 00:36:39.380 think is good content that we will either we create or we create content from 614 00:36:39.380 --> 00:36:42.900 a lot of other sources. So if you're in BB sales and marketing, 615 00:36:43.019 --> 00:36:44.940 come check it out. Take what you want, but also for me, 616 00:36:45.059 --> 00:36:49.369 I'm just Matt, Amatt at Hinds Marketingcom. Any questions, anything I can 617 00:36:49.409 --> 00:36:52.170 do for anyone? Let me know. Yeah, lots of content on your 618 00:36:52.170 --> 00:36:54.769 website. Actually had a good look and can side that you're drinking your own 619 00:36:54.809 --> 00:36:58.610 Champaign, not just spicking about it but doing it funnil send, which is 620 00:36:58.650 --> 00:37:00.679 wonderful. It was actually pleasure, might, to have you on the show 621 00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:04.760 today and hope we can connect against into too. Came on that. We 622 00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:07.800 will do it again for sure. Make sure Caterina gets more budget. You've 623 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:12.480 been listening to be to be read the new acceleration. To ensure that you 624 00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:15.230 never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. 625 00:37:15.829 --> 00:37:19.110 Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.