Episode Transcript
WEBVTT
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Lioke did. Like any social media
set marketing platform. Can you find people
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out there that you can sell to? Of course you can. The problem
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with it is people arely that as
a crop. You were listening to be
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tob revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated
helping software executive stay on the cutting edge
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of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's give him to the show.
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Hi, welcome to be to be
a reven your acceleration. My name is
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Owenion with Yer and I'm here today
with Benjamin Dennyy. The UK must eight.
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It sells trainer areas all of your
heart today. I've never heard it
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said with a fridge exit before.
By name my title. It sounds a
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lot better. Actually, most hated. I like you said that. How
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are you today? I'm very well. Yes, it's a well, it's
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an overcast stay here at England,
but other than that we are fine.
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Yes, it's a good, good, well, I'm glad. I'm glad
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you accept to speak to me after
the the rugby results from the weekends.
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Yeah, it's really yeah, I'll
have to make the most of it because
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it's happening ones every nine years.
It's like a Soli clips yes, it
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is doing the rugby against you guys. So, yeah, but I'm just
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going to make the most of it
this week and just but today we will
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be speaking about sales and prospecting best
practices. But before we get into the
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conversation, you've be wonderfully if you
could just at us a little bit more
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about yourself, Thedora you are creating
on Linkedin and all the sort of things
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that you I'm doing. As I
was saying to you in the preparation,
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you are bit off a correct howlers
of main team absolutely love your disruptived he's
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and trade to implement them. So
yeah, if you could just give us
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a hit, a bit of backgroundabouts
yourself and be absolutely wonderful. Will you?
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What? The first question people always
ask me is how did you become
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the UK's most hated sals trader?
And the honest answer is simply this.
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I've made it up. Yeah,
there's there's no one less, there's no
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international body that measures hatred towards sales
trader's right. So I looked at I
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looked at liken then and when I
was sitting out in this business, I
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looked at Linkeden and I thought,
what does anyone. What do people call
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themselves? If they're are sales leader
or an expert? What I call themselves?
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You go on, looked in and
all they do is call themselves a
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guru, an expert, number one, top professionals, forwards and it's all
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look at me, love me,
love me, love me. And I
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thought no one wants to be hated, which means there's an entire space either
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not occupied or what I can create
and occupy. And I thought that's it.
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I'm going to become the UK's most
hated salves to not love, not
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adored, not best hated. And
then, of course trump came along and
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he gave me a red hatter right. He had make American right, and
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I thought our Nickin that right,
because there are thousands of Salstradan's, thousands
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of very competitive industry. So I
needed to stand out, and so that
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was my whole approach. Created character
that can be brutally blunt and honest,
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because again, most cells trainers are
honest. In fact, mostells trainers can't
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even sell. Let's be blunt.
Yeah, so this was a whole of
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his created character that could be blunt, be honestly truthful, be sort of
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aligned with my personality, but also
stand out from the crowd and a very
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crowded, competitive, noisy marketplace and, like Dennis, just everybody screaming at
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each other. Yeah, absolutely,
absolutely, and you know, you make
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a very, very point. Is
the number of people are done. I
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don't mind the term sort leader,
but I think you can you are guru,
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when people could you a guru,
you are so Glido, when people
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could you a Soorklider, the people
will self proclaimed themselves sort leader. Usually
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don't then to be the full sort
leader. I think it's kind of a
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weird things because it's yeah, it's
I'm a sort leader. Is is kind
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of a sentence that doesn't walk.
If you, if you, if you
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have proclaim it and you're probably not
it exactly. And when I started my
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strategy on Linkedin I actually said to
myself I can't call myself an expert.
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Other people have to. I said
that's going to take years of producing contempt
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that people suddenly start to see as
a source of truth and knowledge. And
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if you go through anything I've written, not once and the seven years I've
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been doing it have I ever said
I'm an expert, a leader, a
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grew. None of that I've literally
just stuck with and I've had people said,
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well, you claim to be a
guru. It's actually, though,
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I don't have, only eve a
claim to behaated, and it's true.
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People call me an expert now,
and that's where I wanted to get.
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You've got a demonstrated by your behavior
and what you do, not because I
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am I say, therefore, I
am absolutely getting into the to big now.
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So, as I mentioned to you, Benjamin, we've got a few
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of our a few of our team, that a big fan of what you're
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doing and they love some of the
the SNEA beds of information and they could
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catch and you know kind of you
that using him that day today, which
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is wonderful. And we've got one
lady in particular. One Lady was one
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of our Operation Director, so she
she runs at you from a team of
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her own, thirty five, going
on to forty five people. She's been
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very successful this year, in fact, probably one of our most successful operation
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director, and she gave me strict
questions for you, because I'm all right,
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let's go, which is a toop
erratics. We generally don't. I
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already made sales people we make that. What's of you on this. But
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you're making sales people. I guess
that's as it's a somewhat slightly loaded question.
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And the reason I say that is
anybody, if they wanted, could
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do so. And this is a
rocket science right. We're not designing nuclear
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reactors here. We are simply having
conversations with people and try to get them
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to discover they need what we have. See, anybody could learn this.
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The difference between hiring some of the
doesn't ever salves background and someone that maybe
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does is they've got less bad behavior
to unknow. So if you hire someone
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fresh outer university, they don't have
this our look, I've been dourness for
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three years. I know what I'm
doing right. So you don't have that,
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but they still have the same head
trash problems that most people in sales
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have. And it's a human floor. It's not reserved for sales people.
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It's the way we were brought up
and we were taught a lot of rules
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that no one ever explained to us. Don't applies and adult and and and
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and so it. Graduate has those
beliefs. So I've never met a salesman
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that lacks confidence, and that's the
number one thing everyone sees me. I
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wish my guys just had a little
bit more confidence. You know, I
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hear them on the phone and they
just need a little bit. It's not
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confidence, it's belief, and the
reason is as a believe they're not allowed
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to behavior act a certain way.
They believe they have to behave or act
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a certain words. Well, they
believe that the person they callings better than
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them. They believe that the person
their callings more authoritive than them. They
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believe they have to answer a question. They believe they're not allowed a challenge.
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They believe they have to be take
the ship that stumped on them when
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someone's row yet they don't believe they
can do a lot of things. So
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their beliefs determine their behavior and their
behavior directly correlates to their confidence level.
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So the answer is yes and no. Hire. You do make sales people,
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but they've all got the same head
trash. It's easier to trade someone
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who hasn't got several years experience,
because you know, I've got to unlearned
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crappy. These salves behavior they probably
hope from someone that was pretty average in
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the first place. It's an interesting
to be because you know you're right you've
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got to look at God, competencies
and cost kids and leg it's like feelings
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union. That's some people to say
is that you've got to look at the
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values. They's just looking at the
experience. But yeah, there is nothing
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was than someone coming in for the
first six months of that carrose are in
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May previous company. We used to
eat like that. Yeah, we needs
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to do it like that. And
and that's so FIA tweat. We can
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feel some time. The sole question
is, are on Linkedin? So you're
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very active on Linkedin. Yes,
but what I your sorts on linkedin prospecting.
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Right. So this is interesting.
Linkedin like any social media or TV
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or radio, except marketing platform.
I see it purely as marketing and advertising.
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It is a place to pump out
content. Now, can you find
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people are there that you can sell
to? Of course you can, because
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it's a modern yellow pages or a
phone book. Right, everybody you want
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to talk to is in there.
The problem with it as people rely on
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that as a crutch and they see
it as an excuse not to actually engage
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with people on the phone. And
I was just talking to a salves endage
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of this morning and he said they
use linked in and they take fifteen minutes
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before they pick up the phone go
to research. The Guy got to do
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so linkedin because it's such a vast
of knowledge, of information, people feel
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they've got to absorb it. It
goes back to a belief. They believe
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they need to know a lot about
the person or the company they're calling in
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order the phone them. That's not
true. So linkedin sort of enables behavior
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of procrastinating, dithering and put it
off. If you just had a list
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of CEOS with their phone number,
it's I phone them, like freak out.
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It's like why, what? Why
do you need to know the size
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of the company? These this listeners
be chosen for you as a business.
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We know these are people you should
talk to, just find them about,
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but but I need to know what
he eats the breakfast at I did.
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I need to have some sort of
personal connects. No, no, you
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don't pick up the folk so looked
into become a crop and I and people
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hide behind it. Yeah, and
that's interesting to them. I think there's
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definitely something with color reluctance. So
and probably more with with new or generation.
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Because of it, people are made
you a little bit more used to
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text each other. Of Us is
cutting each other and and texting or sending
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an email or sending something or sending
a connection on linkedin seems to be like
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a like an act of prospection.
But you know the number of connection I
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received one just picking some of the
Gaye in May teams. If you send
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your connection request and I don't know
you, I'm not going to look at
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your profile trying to figure out why
you want to connect with me. At
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least put a couple of sentence and
tell me that you want to sell me
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something and I will accept you because
at least you made the evort of telling
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me why you want to do it
and I will respond to say I needed
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to, I don't need it,
or someone else in made him is the
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Persson you should contact. But there
is nothing more frustrating at the kind of
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activity of just the lazy activity of
just in your connection request. Now one
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we had that like to to debate
a little bit. Usus and you think,
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and I appreciate for some solution is
readily straightforward, because you've got to
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product is commodity. I'm selling storage, or I'm selling and point security,
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I'm sending cars or mobile phone.
That's straightforward. This is commodity. I've
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got one, everybody's got one.
I will need to replace that some point.
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So far that you you can really
bang the phone and go without doing
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pretty much in your research. But
for the more disruptive, more complex where
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you may want to use a bit
of cells. Navigator to one door on
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the size of their team so you
can tell them why. Look, if
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you've got fifteen sells people, we
could probably and I've been looking at glass
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door, and you pay them all
red k. So we do twenty percent
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more productivity. So we could give
you that much money back every year.
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You know, kind of preparing something
a bit more tell old. Do you
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see value using linkedin for that more
telor type of approach, or do you
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still think it's it's something that should
be given to the BDELS, because I
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guess your point is not against using
listing. Linkedin is more like the wasting
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time or trange. So I have
no problem with every Monday at the beginning
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of every month, if they spent
the day doing nothing but researching like that,
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getting the names of the context and
it's sticking into a spreach. They
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for the rest of the month they
just phone, but they don't do that.
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They do this every day between phone
calls, that they look through someone
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and it's like no, no,
you should have a list ready to go.
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You shouldn't have to do any research
or prep every day. So I
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used to do that. I would
I would get a list of a hundred
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people and to speak to a hundred
people on the phone is going to take
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several months. So I don't have
to keep refreshing my list. I get
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through month, mother, maybe I
speak to team people. All I do
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is add another team people at the
beginning of the next month and I got
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a hundred again. And so what
frustrates me as sales people, they find
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an excuse and the reason they don't
like calling is first they fear being rejected,
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they don't like the feeling and a
lot of the time they're folding people
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that they believe it better than their
folding grown ups with profit jobs probably got
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mortgages and like a boat or something. And so then as you on the
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phone, the mother whispers in their
ear. What are you going to say
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to him when you get through and
work how and like on the reason,
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I'll tell you. I'll see him
an email, because that like at least
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I can't upset him absolutely. And
then there is a thing where you probably
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you can see them the face of
some people went out, probably dating someone,
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and that I oh shit, don't
pick up, don't pick up,
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all right, big them, all
right, right, I think like her
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and headlights and they free are and
then they start incomprehensible vomiting and then they
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wonder why people get annoyed or rude
with them. So I'll do we prepare
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them, because I agree with you. I think you know that the videos
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you I should be focusing on making
the ATV t, but unfortunately sometimes that
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day is not down. You know, don't? You can't just get the
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data. In the US he's probably
much he's you always zooming, force him
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less, non to something good company
that prepy everything. In Europe there is
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some database companies, but you know
they'll be details from our perspective. No,
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that's just our opinion. He's much
more difficult to find the raid Thata
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in Europe. So I'll use suggest
we should do it. We should shoop
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up the bide as in actually kind
of going through that that data. Yeah,
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I suppose this is figure out what
that so ideally you'd be able to
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give the data to your salves people
and it's ready to go. That's in
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an ideal world, right. I'm
fortunately that live in an ideal world and
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sometimes salves people are going to have
to use a bit of now. So
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a lot of what I was in
this game I didn't know a lot of
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the people I wanted to talk.
I started off by sitting appointments for advertising
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agencies in London and they said I
want to get in front of the brand
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director for Pepsi. So I'm going
to figure out who the brand director for
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Pepsi is. Does it e quit
Google search. You'll get a name,
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but the name could be two years
old. But I got a name.
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So what they got to do is
learned techniques, and I will deliberately.
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So if you know you need to
speak to the odor of a company,
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so hard to figure that out right. So I would phone up and I'd
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make up a name, like I
can I speak with a rally and please.
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Yeah, and I got these no, a ralliant, here I go.
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I think you'll find there is and
they'll go, don't do it.
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Is it? I got? He's
your managing director. And what I do
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that they correct me. They got
to our managing directors, Peter Wilson.
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Thank you. Now the name.
I can phone back a day later and
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asked to speak with Peter. So
they were all these techniques I would with
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a particularly with phoning big multinastals.
Cocacola was a classic trying to get through
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to the direct line of a director
at coach, but I was able to
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figure out the last four digits on
the phone number, or the one I
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had to fiddle with. So I
just as three hundred and one, three
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thousand and two, three hundred and
three. Then you worked out the executive
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street was three four whatever. I
would get through like that. So you
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have to be quite tenacious and creative. Now there are two types of sales
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people. Are those that are hungry
to do that and achieved, and those
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that expect to be spoon fed one
of what is the other what I call
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they just at adjust. As you
know, just got fired life and just
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Higettin. I used to be there. I used to do it. We
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used to put into fund roulette where
we couldn't not find direct person. Is
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like a no name number, Bile
Fun Switch Board and you're okay, well,
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your switch box, can you bay
four thousand so there's do falls,
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zero, name, name falls your
world, seven, seven, and then
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you find someone is like, well, can I speak to that dozen?
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That's a world, world, World
War on. I'm I mean proclamant.
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Yeah, I have no idea what
it felt is. What could you look
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at them up in the directory,
because I was given the number I have.
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I did write it dumb by mean
and they just they just have make
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exactly. It's a bit chicky.
It's a bit Cheky. That's when we
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used to do in the good or
net wasn't much, only because, you
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know, you've got deals on gays, a wrong. You had that kind
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of listening to you and everybody.
He actually never could. Kind of an
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interesting it's almost humoristic in the way
because you do. It was a bit
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of fun and he always going to
trained to do anything bad. He is
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at the end of the day,
you know, is just he's restraining to
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get through to the right about.
I used to do all of that,
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and I mean because I was chasing
big characters. I finally get through to
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say a bit. I find to
get through to the brand director for Cocacola.
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For All of you know UK or
Europe, you know it's a bit
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top person to get through to the
moment they'd answer. I would eddied answered
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it or early or really I see
a lot of rally and I got to
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be up front with you. You
are my white wail market and I have
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been hunting you across the Pacific for
the last three months. This is my
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moment to singer harpooded. Can I
have thirty seconds? That all laugh and
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they let me do my bit.
They'd either say, you know what,
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beach but no one dressed happy,
or I'll tell you what being you are
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quite like your approach. I'm happy
to have a meeting with you. Yeah,
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don't my clients. He's all say. How do you do it?
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How do you get people just so
relaxed? Because I don't sound like a
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salesman, I don't act like a
salesman. I'm not scared of the people
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I'm folding, I'm not scared to
find them. I know I'm allowed to
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interrupt them, I know I'm allowed
to talk to strangers. I know I
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can do this. So it's getting
tells people to appreciate that, but they
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don't. That's kind of fitting.
Me To a question from Joe Grief.
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With our end of training and development
was also a big front of yours.
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And and he's question was around you
know, do you have any very specific
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well of getting into a call of
call, and what's your metter and what
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do you fain effective, because you
just give us a Gar exam board down.
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So what is it? Is it's
humor? Is a is it like
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going to a girl at the bar
and just being very defriends? I've thinking,
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I guess your dream just coming up
with something a little bit more,
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a bit more wolf was there.
Wasn't get you. You have to first
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what yet? You have to stand
out and you got to say something.
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It's a psychiatrist call it. They
call it a patent terrupt. It's where
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you say or do something that's unexpected, so it shakes them out of their
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Malays. Now you are gonna this
is the thing with prospecting. You don't
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know what the mood or what's happened
to the person you're calling the thirty seconds
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pro so you will meet people that
are miserable and angry because I've had a
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crack day. So sometimes it will
bomb, but most of the time most
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people are normal and civil. So
you do what's called a pattern dropt and
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a patent, and I've got numerous
patterns or upside used, but one of
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my favorite is disarming honesty. Is
a great desarming or the quickest way to
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build trust with a stranger is DIS
army honesty. So soon as the ceere
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go out, as Icho, not
Urlen, you are gonna hate me.
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This is a sales called. So
do you want to hang out or let
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me have thirty seconds now? There
is a psychology behind this. I know
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that if I give somebody a command
or an order, human nature is to
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rebel. They dude. People do
not like to be told what to do.
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You go to the museum and it's
his do not touch. WHAT DOES
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EVERYBODY DO? Just tax it,
just gotta touch it right, or don't
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stand on the grass anyfore, I
just dip. Get it. Humans are
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rebellious. They hate. So when
you get through the decision maker and the
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first thing you say is do want
to hang up, instinctively the gon know
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and I caught of where I want
to. This is not a this is
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no longer an unsilicited phone call.
He's actually given me permission to talk to
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him. So I try and proble
them. I will, depending on what
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sector. So currency traders or recruiters. They're not particularly liked because they're so
305
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vociferous on the phone, that always
on the phone. These people's they have
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a reputation. So I would start
phoning up and what I was doing it
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for, they might say, I'll
be up for if I told you,
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if I told you this call was
about currency or recruitment. What a little
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piece of you die. And then
yes, yes, rather than justify go,
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why does everybody say? There and
then they've bent. I hate you
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guys. You got blue and at
once they finished benting, bendings like a
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good vomit. You feel better and
in that moment I've got them where I
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need them. Psychologically. They're comfortable
with me. And then I go look,
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I beat all those calls of rubbish
to they are. If I guarantee
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the next thirty seconds will be different
when you hear me now. Yeah,
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you know, he's all come down
to a really, really a Niver of
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confidence and is and consult with Yasol. If, as a bell person,
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comforts in your in your approach and
comfort in your in your also in your
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sense of human and I think you
know kind of people can get, kind
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of get that and I think that's
okay. But coming back to one of
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the points that you are making early
on, we take that analogy of is
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very difficult to contact someone and try
to sell something that you don't really under
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someone how it works, or you
don't really under the product or you don't
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under some you know. So you
almost need to find a way, in
325
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our book at least, that's what
we believe. This is true, to
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convince the cells right that everybody should
get one. So if, if I'm
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a firm believer, if you've got
two cells right that is just about to
328
00:21:12.470 --> 00:21:18.269
make a goal call and they truly
believe that that cool, cool will help
329
00:21:18.779 --> 00:21:22.900
the person at the other end.
It's actually going to be the good news
330
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of the day for them and in
fact we could just really change their life,
331
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make them get a promotion or whatever. That completely changed the wood of
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the call. Is Very difficult to
put in practice because some of the product,
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and we know we cover a lot
of clients and some clients are very
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straightforward. Some those are very destructive
with technology that are co relatively technical.
335
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So you first of all you don't
know who to target. You don't know
336
00:21:44.490 --> 00:21:47.680
if it's D nd or the end
of the brand or whatever is is lots
337
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of different people. But then when
you get to it, do use case.
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Can Be different if you will.
So do you have tactics to kind
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of make the sense people at is? Because again, I think what you
340
00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:03.710
are doing is is brilliant, but
it you need you gone to do it.
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Was Nurse Right. So so,
first of all, yes, confidence
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a a a salesman. Somebody asked
me, is it art or science?
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I said it's both. It's theater. A salesman is like a great actor.
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They can memorize their lines, they
can know the whole movie inside out,
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so they know where it's going and
what's going to happen, who's going
346
00:22:21.259 --> 00:22:23.900
to say what, but they're also
able to act in the moment and see.
347
00:22:23.900 --> 00:22:26.740
You have to be a great actor
and a great communicator and you've got
348
00:22:26.819 --> 00:22:30.930
to marry the two together. Confidence
comes when you believe in what you sell.
349
00:22:32.410 --> 00:22:34.210
That if you're picking up the phone
and you don't believe in what you're
350
00:22:34.250 --> 00:22:38.490
selling, then it's never going to
work. Secondly, if you don't think
351
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that this is the best call that
that person is going to take all day,
352
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if they have problems you fix,
you shouldn't be making the call.
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The other thing you've got to do
is our see average salesman, what do
354
00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:53.400
we fix and, most of all, look at you blankly. And now
355
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what they'll do. So I'll start
talking about how you do, what you
356
00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:59.990
do and what you do. It's
so, no, no, I didn't
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00:22:59.990 --> 00:23:02.269
say what do we do or how
do you do? I see what do
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00:23:02.349 --> 00:23:07.990
we fix, and in that moment
your salesman will realize I don't understand my
359
00:23:07.150 --> 00:23:11.430
prospect. If I can't talk about
what we fix, I'll never be after
360
00:23:11.470 --> 00:23:14.980
to engage them. So when you
pick up the phone, it's not to
361
00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:18.339
talk at them about you or what
you do or how you do it.
362
00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:23.420
It's what do I say to this
person that's going to make them realize I'm
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talking about his or her world.
So I can't phone up and sell and
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00:23:29.329 --> 00:23:33.369
salves training, because no one by
salves train what they do by it or
365
00:23:33.450 --> 00:23:36.930
Elier. Are you frustrated that you've
got sales guys that are reluctant or not
366
00:23:37.009 --> 00:23:38.690
motivated to pack up the phone?
Are you worried that when they do,
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00:23:38.890 --> 00:23:41.480
they sound a bit weak at a
bit look rested, and you think I
368
00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:45.119
would live a buy from them?
Or, thirdly, is your biggest fear
369
00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.039
that when I get in front of
people they just too quick to discount.
370
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:52.319
I'll get the feeling you're going to
tell you don't recognize that and they're all
371
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:56.470
you sell. Is Not I recognize
that. Now I'm a newer world under
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00:23:56.190 --> 00:24:00.869
myself. Hundred Persons I just took
a note about make their believe in the
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00:24:02.309 --> 00:24:06.390
in what they said were. It's
like everything. I think there is a
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00:24:06.430 --> 00:24:11.500
bit of preparation up from to get
the people ready, and it's important to
375
00:24:11.819 --> 00:24:18.420
it's important to to be able to
articulate that and and and I also completely
376
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agree with you. In fact,
one example I would give you is,
377
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and we often ask, what pretty
much consistently ask, in fact, to
378
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our clients as part of our kickoff
process. What is the value of spending
379
00:24:30.609 --> 00:24:34.849
one hour with you in a meeting
room as as a vendor, okay,
380
00:24:34.849 --> 00:24:38.880
as as a technology vendor or selvice
vendor, whatever. What's the value?
381
00:24:38.920 --> 00:24:41.680
What would the prospect get out of
it? The reason why we've done that
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00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:47.000
is because pre covid we used to
do a lot of face to face meetings,
383
00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:51.839
and face to face meeting quite good
in time of people. If they
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00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:56.630
invite you to the office, they
won't not turn up calls. People don't
385
00:24:56.630 --> 00:24:59.190
don't have to call this kind of
okay, not to turn not to cause
386
00:24:59.190 --> 00:25:02.509
an any sense something, some excuses
about the car crash or dog or,
387
00:25:02.829 --> 00:25:04.430
you know, the guard not being
their, the Amazon Gay was there,
388
00:25:04.509 --> 00:25:07.940
or people just turned up into the
literally ten minutes after the call started,
389
00:25:08.299 --> 00:25:14.140
which again is I I just run
over with the other called. So what
390
00:25:14.339 --> 00:25:18.380
we trying to do? So through
asking that question, is really explaining the
391
00:25:18.500 --> 00:25:22.650
value of the meeting so people and
then make sure that we can articulate that
392
00:25:22.690 --> 00:25:25.490
also in an email, in the
follow up, in the in the agenda,
393
00:25:25.809 --> 00:25:30.210
so people don't forget about it and
still want to come. But to
394
00:25:30.329 --> 00:25:33.170
your points, like asking the sales
guy what way the product? What are
395
00:25:33.210 --> 00:25:37.000
the benefits? Sometimes when you as
the questions of what what would the prospect
396
00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:41.240
get out of one hour's like?
Well, they get a demo, all
397
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:44.599
right, but what would they learn? How would you change their life?
398
00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:48.640
What can if they don't buy your
stuff, which is likely that you know
399
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:52.789
ninety percent one ninety five percent want. What are they going to get away
400
00:25:52.789 --> 00:25:56.150
with it? We were sorry.
What are they going to get away with
401
00:25:56.430 --> 00:26:00.029
that they can bring to their board, to their pills, to what's the
402
00:26:00.109 --> 00:26:03.990
learning? Are you going to share
some industry stuff? And most of our
403
00:26:03.069 --> 00:26:06.740
clients, not all of them,
but I would say probably forty percent,
404
00:26:06.819 --> 00:26:10.539
actually struggle to articulate that. So
we have to help them to articulate that
405
00:26:10.660 --> 00:26:14.500
value. And that's also so important, because imagine you on the video and
406
00:26:14.539 --> 00:26:17.380
your job is to book a meeting. If you don't know the value of
407
00:26:17.500 --> 00:26:21.130
something you are doing, if you
don't know the big why? Why the
408
00:26:21.210 --> 00:26:23.809
meeting? If that's not look for
you. I'll do you want to convince
409
00:26:23.890 --> 00:26:29.089
someone to take it. So I
think it's a very arresting a lane of
410
00:26:29.170 --> 00:26:33.240
swords arounds the creating a perception of
that doesn't cannot say no to me.
411
00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:37.359
And if a person reject me and
say no to me, these are do
412
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:40.640
it very, very rudely and as
fine, I'm going to move on.
413
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:42.519
I'm going to try them away again
in two weeks time when they probably feel
414
00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:47.269
better. Oh, I'm going to
take a clever answer from them, a
415
00:26:48.470 --> 00:26:52.549
real intelligent why not? Because the
way not is as good as let's go
416
00:26:52.630 --> 00:26:55.789
for a meeting on the something way
someone does, I want to meet with
417
00:26:55.950 --> 00:26:59.910
you is can actually save your taiment
money. So all right, I got
418
00:27:00.029 --> 00:27:04.099
now another question from jewel, which
me meaning to the Linkedin prospecting answer you
419
00:27:04.180 --> 00:27:07.619
gave me, I think, instead
of getting there with that question. So
420
00:27:08.420 --> 00:27:14.420
what is your opinion on Crm's for
as Gus Rock will it get? CRAMS
421
00:27:14.420 --> 00:27:18.450
could become a cruck, because I
spend so much time into a seam system
422
00:27:18.529 --> 00:27:19.890
like that. Says only as good
as the data that goes into it.
423
00:27:21.009 --> 00:27:23.690
So it's only as good as the
user. Again, see rams used as
424
00:27:23.690 --> 00:27:26.410
an excuse start to pick up the
phone because I get off the PHUCK.
425
00:27:26.529 --> 00:27:30.759
Got To put a message, left
a voice mount. will try again now.
426
00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:33.960
Now I'm better, two minutes is
gone and it's a way to avoid
427
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:37.839
getting straight back on the horse and
folding again. That's why I don't like
428
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:41.920
them, because and then they we
tend to measure the wrong things as well.
429
00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:45.230
Salves better just they makes a number
of dolls. Number of dolls are
430
00:27:45.230 --> 00:27:49.549
stupid, because you make sixty dollars
that go nowhere. That's the stupid bit,
431
00:27:49.589 --> 00:27:53.470
right. Or so they makes sixty
dolls and team people answer, but
432
00:27:53.589 --> 00:27:57.619
none of the bye will. What's
the prop so that so so measuring the
433
00:27:57.660 --> 00:28:02.660
right thing. So the cram is
away again. The sales people. Whenever
434
00:28:02.740 --> 00:28:04.940
I go into a company and I
say okay, cause let's make some calls
435
00:28:04.980 --> 00:28:08.180
or want to hear you today,
how long it takes from those words leaving
436
00:28:08.220 --> 00:28:12.329
my mouth someone actually making a phone
call? I could honestly be sitting there
437
00:28:12.329 --> 00:28:17.049
for ten minutes. So what is
going on? And they're in the cram
438
00:28:17.170 --> 00:28:21.529
system. Can Call her? No, not, who as are? Just
439
00:28:21.730 --> 00:28:23.690
phone anyone in it, just to
I want to hear you. So No,
440
00:28:23.849 --> 00:28:26.359
they are a bit of a crutch. I would say. The only
441
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:30.200
time you stick anything in the CRMS
if you spoken to a decision maker and
442
00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:33.240
I've see, we're not interested,
or call me in two weeks. But
443
00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:36.720
you don't need to put up.
Left of voice, Smile, left a
444
00:28:36.759 --> 00:28:38.880
voice message, sent an email,
try to get in touch. But he
445
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:44.230
wasn't. And this is all Fuller
Donald Team. People in a row,
446
00:28:44.269 --> 00:28:45.710
bank, bank, Bang, and
then leave your notes, because nine out
447
00:28:45.750 --> 00:28:48.950
of ten of them won't go anywhere. Yeah, you need to stop and
448
00:28:49.029 --> 00:28:55.309
between calls. So no, see
ums important, but it's again it's used
449
00:28:55.390 --> 00:28:59.900
as a mechanism to avoid calling.
And if you're doing if you're at work
450
00:29:00.019 --> 00:29:03.940
for seven hours, say, and
you're supposed to prospect for four of those.
451
00:29:03.619 --> 00:29:07.460
If you're only making sixty dollars a
day, you're doing a lot of
452
00:29:07.619 --> 00:29:11.569
farting about, because a few of
those went to nowhere. So what did
453
00:29:11.650 --> 00:29:15.250
you do for the rest of the
day? And you know what I've been
454
00:29:15.289 --> 00:29:18.890
asking like that lane of swords is
pretty much been mad made day today for
455
00:29:18.970 --> 00:29:22.849
the last ten years. You know
it's I think there's one of comment that
456
00:29:22.930 --> 00:29:27.200
you made a a of the the
volume of activity being bullshit. I can't
457
00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:30.720
agreement. I think what you need
to track, you need to track the
458
00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:33.880
quality of what we're doing in in
that prospecting world and the quality started,
459
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:37.869
the meaningful conversation. Are Many meaningful
conversation you've got? You want me to
460
00:29:37.910 --> 00:29:41.869
put a lot of activity. Look. Well, speaking now we're in the
461
00:29:41.910 --> 00:29:45.869
UK's to hundred thirty seven, to
thirty seven to thirty seven PM, so
462
00:29:45.670 --> 00:29:48.829
you know in the of for Nooon, what's happening. Well, if you're
463
00:29:48.829 --> 00:29:52.380
a director of any salt, you
probably going to have been meeting until five,
464
00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:56.140
sorty six o'clock, potentially six thirty. If I want to grab you,
465
00:29:56.779 --> 00:29:59.740
calling you at this time is absolutely
pointless. You are on a call
466
00:29:59.819 --> 00:30:03.420
with someone else, like we are
with your doing something else or you are
467
00:30:03.420 --> 00:30:06.059
king on a project and your fund
is on silence. You get the shit
468
00:30:06.140 --> 00:30:08.329
done right. So the ideas.
First of all, are you putting the
469
00:30:08.410 --> 00:30:15.410
activities in the right you know someone
the gay will wrote the polatical prospecting all
470
00:30:15.529 --> 00:30:18.809
it exactly the golden hours. Are
You cooling in the time where you can?
471
00:30:19.009 --> 00:30:25.160
Are you going fishing for that big
white well when it's actually a good
472
00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:27.319
time to go fishing? Right?
Why are you going fishing when there is
473
00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:30.440
no fishing in the pound of the
old sleeping? Exactly? See You guys,
474
00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:33.920
what time? You know you can
fish as much as you want,
475
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:37.230
you can come with as many line
as you want. If the fishes are
476
00:30:37.390 --> 00:30:41.190
not dead all sleeping, you won't
catch any. So I think it is
477
00:30:41.630 --> 00:30:45.269
it can be a big smoke screen
that sort of volume of call you are
478
00:30:45.309 --> 00:30:48.190
making. The second thing is that, I mean we know the tactics right.
479
00:30:48.230 --> 00:30:51.980
I've been doing the job of a
colleagues next to me that actually are
480
00:30:52.099 --> 00:30:55.019
or if find at the idea of
speaking to a prospect. So this hay
481
00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:57.339
on the line, literally the stay
on the line with the switch board.
482
00:30:57.740 --> 00:31:02.539
Yeah, becaud on the voicemail,
saying nothing on the voicemail, keeping the
483
00:31:02.619 --> 00:31:06.170
line open so it looks like there
is a meaningful conversation. Exactly. It's
484
00:31:06.250 --> 00:31:08.250
a cool time. So you measure
how long you been on the fault.
485
00:31:08.410 --> 00:31:11.609
So if you tell a human being
you gotta be on the phone for two
486
00:31:11.650 --> 00:31:15.210
hours a day, they found the
talking clock and let it Ram belong for
487
00:31:15.289 --> 00:31:18.119
twenty minutes and that's the thing.
So that is and we it's kind of
488
00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:22.079
having that conversations. I've been there, mate. Look, show me your
489
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:25.000
activity, but show me when you
put the activity. And, quite frankly,
490
00:31:25.079 --> 00:31:27.119
I think the honest, honest thing
with activities that if you are part
491
00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:30.039
of our team and one of our
other job comes to you and say,
492
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:33.670
Benjamin, we need to look at
your activity, that means that you are
493
00:31:33.710 --> 00:31:37.549
in that you are in trouble.
You're in trouble because, basically, we
494
00:31:37.710 --> 00:31:41.789
don't trust that you're doing the right
thing, and that's bad and I think
495
00:31:41.789 --> 00:31:45.109
that's where, again, we try
to help COR reluctance, because I think
496
00:31:45.509 --> 00:31:49.579
it's it's normal for the for the
new person to be a bit scared about
497
00:31:49.619 --> 00:31:52.819
it, to be a bit concerned, to not feel, you know,
498
00:31:52.180 --> 00:31:56.420
you mentioned like feeling and the authority
of that as all that game must be
499
00:31:56.500 --> 00:31:59.619
so important. Yeah, we still
all made of the same tissue, blood
500
00:31:59.660 --> 00:32:04.490
and everything right, but a young
star as someone with twenty five coming out
501
00:32:04.529 --> 00:32:07.849
of school. They're going to call
someone with fifties got like Seti, as
502
00:32:07.890 --> 00:32:10.210
experience, notice things inside out.
You just think that you know if the
503
00:32:10.289 --> 00:32:14.730
conversation goes I won't be able to
answer any objections. So I think there
504
00:32:14.890 --> 00:32:19.839
is we need to help these individuals
to feel better. But what's interesting with
505
00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:23.240
the CRM, sister an Ecze,
that I think they're a design for the
506
00:32:23.319 --> 00:32:27.960
videos down, a design. Yes, Dus, you can use some of
507
00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:30.950
those. Our solution like this sends. Automation will have been better. Okay,
508
00:32:31.069 --> 00:32:35.789
so lack of sells love that we
we we like. Or you've got
509
00:32:35.829 --> 00:32:38.549
some of the stuff like our stretching
or yeah, Ram Cram was a sticking
510
00:32:38.670 --> 00:32:43.390
plaster for a bigger problem. People
are buy CRA but the belief that have
511
00:32:43.549 --> 00:32:47.859
good serim systemout get more leads.
Yeah, it's Bollocks, because the person
512
00:32:47.980 --> 00:32:52.140
making the phone college generating the leads. It doesn't matter what system they type
513
00:32:52.180 --> 00:32:55.220
their behavior and do. That doesn't
generate it either. So No, so
514
00:32:55.299 --> 00:32:58.849
people park. Is that? Well, this will solve my prospecting problem.
515
00:32:59.369 --> 00:33:01.730
It's flash. It's got all of
us and I just see give my giving
516
00:33:01.890 --> 00:33:07.089
tools to monkeys as used to solicitor
how to use the tool and also they
517
00:33:07.170 --> 00:33:10.170
they've not been designed for as the
house. There's a reality down a design
518
00:33:10.250 --> 00:33:14.119
that I think from me, I
mean. And of course they all move
519
00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:16.440
like a sells for some shows designing. You can pay a lot of money
520
00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:20.240
to get it singing and then sing
like the way you want. So is
521
00:33:20.279 --> 00:33:23.240
the same with ups but Microsoft Dynamics
and zoo and all that. But the
522
00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:27.829
way custom out the the crm walks
is pretty much when you've got the piping
523
00:33:27.869 --> 00:33:30.910
opportunity. Is when the business is
going, when you've got you, as
524
00:33:30.950 --> 00:33:34.710
you mentioned, you've got that first
engagement. That's when you put it in
525
00:33:34.750 --> 00:33:37.309
the CRM system. Okay, all
the prospection that thatay is. Do you
526
00:33:37.430 --> 00:33:42.500
want to have a thousands of flames
of data and your crm system that will
527
00:33:42.579 --> 00:33:45.140
just age and get crop of a
time? You can if you want,
528
00:33:45.220 --> 00:33:49.299
but what's the point? Okay,
what you should have is to of like
529
00:33:49.380 --> 00:33:52.779
a social intelligence that are based right, but actually your system in which your
530
00:33:52.819 --> 00:33:55.809
videa is the outworks. You can
get the right metrics, the right measure,
531
00:33:57.210 --> 00:34:00.329
a bit of cool recording, a
bit of artificial intelligence behind it so
532
00:34:00.410 --> 00:34:04.089
you can get quicker into finding what's
going on, etc. Etc. And
533
00:34:04.210 --> 00:34:07.730
then you just spit out the interesting
stuff into the crum system. So the
534
00:34:07.849 --> 00:34:13.679
crum system remains clean with just the
opportunities. All they are progressing and more
535
00:34:13.719 --> 00:34:15.039
like the field selfs type of things, which is okay, I've got an
536
00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:19.559
opportunity, I make closing it,
I may following the process and then when
537
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:22.480
they become a customer, or do
we make sure that we follow up with
538
00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:29.269
that? And that's clients relationship management, not prospect relationship management. So that's
539
00:34:29.710 --> 00:34:32.710
an hundred percent agree with you on
that one. A last destructive one with
540
00:34:34.190 --> 00:34:37.469
with ANA here, which which I
think you have interesting views on. When
541
00:34:37.619 --> 00:34:44.179
you think about incentivating the team with
time off or voutschers for doing the job
542
00:34:44.219 --> 00:34:46.820
they are being paid to do and
get commissioned for, do I think you
543
00:34:46.900 --> 00:34:51.780
should give them more the symptoms to
do the job that they basically they're already
544
00:34:51.860 --> 00:34:54.090
paid to do a job, they
get commission to do the job and then
545
00:34:54.489 --> 00:34:59.769
you know, people are saying you
can't self motivate yourself. You're never gotta
546
00:34:59.809 --> 00:35:02.489
be motivated anyway. So it doesn't
matter what you offer. The v People
547
00:35:02.530 --> 00:35:05.610
that will do it would have been
the people that would have done it without
548
00:35:05.650 --> 00:35:09.320
the offer. Yeah, it's simple. At if you have to motivate sour
549
00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:13.559
to do the job they say they
want to do, they don't want to
550
00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:15.880
be there. So now I don't
think you need to offer it at it's
551
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:21.550
dice baby to reward the best,
but to encourage the slackers to do work.
552
00:35:21.949 --> 00:35:23.590
It won't work because if they wanted
to do it, they would be
553
00:35:23.670 --> 00:35:27.909
doing it. And the people that
would it will be the best performers anyway.
554
00:35:28.389 --> 00:35:30.389
So No, I think it's just
dumb. What's good for the best
555
00:35:30.469 --> 00:35:34.630
performance? Just giving them a pot, but I don't think it motivates anyone
556
00:35:34.710 --> 00:35:38.139
to do better. It made.
It could spark in a yet to blue
557
00:35:38.260 --> 00:35:43.460
or blossom. Salesman, a spark. That could happen. But I think
558
00:35:43.500 --> 00:35:46.380
most of the time you're just chucking
good money after bad, and and so
559
00:35:47.139 --> 00:35:51.050
best incentive your sin. That's best
way too, which you vate too much.
560
00:35:51.050 --> 00:35:52.730
You've Indo gainst to get going.
Would you say his money? Would
561
00:35:52.769 --> 00:35:59.210
you say is starvation ression? Starvation
a hundred percent commission. If you don't
562
00:35:59.250 --> 00:36:01.289
sell, you don't eat. You
know how quickly people get good at salent.
563
00:36:01.809 --> 00:36:04.920
But would you get we? Would
you get them coming in, though?
564
00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:07.599
Would you get the rank talents coming
in? Because I would be don
565
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:09.599
would be deals or objective? People
say, well, look, I'm the
566
00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:13.719
good sense. People won't come to
join me then because I don't be a
567
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:17.400
good basic salary. Ah, good
good sales people don't need basic salaries.
568
00:36:17.869 --> 00:36:22.590
I have a basic salary for ten
years. I eat everything I kill.
569
00:36:23.670 --> 00:36:27.829
It motivates me to keep doing what
I doing in to get better. If
570
00:36:27.869 --> 00:36:31.510
I was paid for K year,
regardless of whether a lot I sold,
571
00:36:31.789 --> 00:36:36.300
I would do a hell of a
lot, though, I think the best
572
00:36:36.340 --> 00:36:39.699
sales people, now, obviously it's
a bit controversial, but most good sales.
573
00:36:39.739 --> 00:36:43.579
But look, you set up a
company, right. Who's playing you
574
00:36:43.659 --> 00:36:45.699
to sit up a company? No
one. WHO's modding music, your own?
575
00:36:45.940 --> 00:36:49.849
WHO's taking all the risk? I
am. If it fails, you
576
00:36:50.090 --> 00:36:52.849
lose. You're not saying no,
no, no, you got to pay
577
00:36:52.010 --> 00:36:57.289
me to set up this business.
Well, that's yeah, I don't disagree
578
00:36:57.329 --> 00:37:00.449
with you at all. I just
think I'm just thinking about theology and listening
579
00:37:00.489 --> 00:37:04.480
to it so I'll, may God
he's well, stick higher. Commission reward
580
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:08.559
people that kill and don't reward people
that don't. Because remember, eighty five
581
00:37:08.599 --> 00:37:13.639
percent two people don't want to be
in sales. They're there because they needed
582
00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:17.110
a job. So they just want
to take orders and they're hoping enough crack
583
00:37:17.190 --> 00:37:21.389
will filter through to them where they
could take enough orders to get by.
584
00:37:22.469 --> 00:37:25.750
And they say server base and that's
it. And actually they know this because
585
00:37:25.750 --> 00:37:29.309
if you meet the average owner of
a business and I say, why don't
586
00:37:29.309 --> 00:37:31.139
you just fire your worse before was
get well, I can't, because you
587
00:37:31.260 --> 00:37:34.659
know, they do bring a business. You know, you could swap them
588
00:37:34.699 --> 00:37:37.380
with a bit of Ai and the
same amount of business would come. And
589
00:37:37.099 --> 00:37:40.699
the problems is, yeah, because
they that they order takers who manage and
590
00:37:40.860 --> 00:37:45.610
they know it and I know you
can't fire me. Yeah, very good,
591
00:37:45.969 --> 00:37:49.809
they're good sons. Good would potentially, but listening the right thing.
592
00:37:50.210 --> 00:37:54.849
So we get into the end off
of our conversationately, but I want to
593
00:37:54.929 --> 00:37:58.090
thank you so much, Benjamin,
for showing all your INSER, and I
594
00:37:58.130 --> 00:38:00.440
love the bushion and of some of
the you coming with you mean me smail
595
00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:05.960
a lot today because it's it's distructive. But I do agree with them and
596
00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:08.679
I think you've got you've got an
interesting way to go about it and I
597
00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:14.030
fully you know, like and has
done, like Joe I've done, it's
598
00:38:14.269 --> 00:38:16.429
I think it's about people using that
sort of conversation that we had today,
599
00:38:16.510 --> 00:38:20.550
pick a couple of nuggets from it
and try to put them in that in
600
00:38:20.630 --> 00:38:22.750
that day to day time, the
three in that day to day life,
601
00:38:23.309 --> 00:38:27.300
and see if they would led them
to move the needle and get better success
602
00:38:27.300 --> 00:38:30.139
or better resource potentially. And I
think you've just done that today, giving
603
00:38:30.179 --> 00:38:35.619
us less of fantastic example and great
analogies that that hopefully will let people to
604
00:38:35.699 --> 00:38:39.179
refrain their shoes and feel better about
themselves. However, if anyone wants to
605
00:38:39.179 --> 00:38:43.690
carry on the conversation with you,
what's the best way to find you?
606
00:38:44.210 --> 00:38:47.010
So they did. Obviously that's where
I live. Or Youtube. I've got
607
00:38:47.010 --> 00:38:50.489
a youtube channel. You guys most
had it sels. Try to add my
608
00:38:50.570 --> 00:38:52.090
website. UK's most had it.
Aus. TRY TO DOCOM's. It's all
609
00:38:52.170 --> 00:38:55.880
the same, but linkedin. If
you do see me a message, I'll
610
00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:59.519
try to respond. I get lots. I do try to respond to all
611
00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:01.079
of them, but you know how
like did. Works. Basically just just
612
00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:07.159
get pushed down and it's very easy
for me to forget or out of side,
613
00:39:07.159 --> 00:39:09.070
out of mind, so you have
to be patient or see me or
614
00:39:09.110 --> 00:39:13.670
reminder. I'm not being rude,
I just get a lot of stuff.
615
00:39:14.030 --> 00:39:15.909
But my other thing, well,
I want you to thank you again for
616
00:39:16.030 --> 00:39:20.309
being part of the show today.
Thanks by your insight and let's reconnect soon
617
00:39:20.389 --> 00:39:22.949
because I think we could have another
session speaking about modes, still basically in
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00:39:23.070 --> 00:39:25.539
mode. So thank you so much
for I think today you're welcome. Thank
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00:39:25.579 --> 00:39:30.260
you for having meal. You've been
listening to be to be read. Neuwe
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00:39:30.260 --> 00:39:34.699
acceleration to ensure that you never miss
an episode. Subscribe to the show in
621
00:39:34.739 --> 00:39:37.889
your favorite podcast player. Thank you
so much for listening. Until next time.
622
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