120: How to Budget for SDRs w/ Dan Seabrook

February 03, 2022 00:37:43
120: How to Budget for SDRs w/ Dan Seabrook
B2B Revenue Acceleration
120: How to Budget for SDRs w/ Dan Seabrook

Feb 03 2022 | 00:37:43

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Show Notes

Building a sales development team is a feat worth investing in, that much is becoming common knowledge in the business world. Understanding exactly how to budget for an SDR team is the first hurdle to creating a successful team, yet is undoubtedly one of the most important.

After all, it’s not just the salary that needs to be considered. SDRs not only have to be hired but onboarded, managed and provided with a tech stack to ensure success.

While necessary, these elements can take a significant chunk out of your budget, so it’s essential to account for this when allocating finances to creating a team of SDRs.

To shed some light on the deliberation process, we sat down with Dan Seabrook, Vice President of Sales at Operatix, to discuss how to budget for SDRs.

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.

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Episode Transcript

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.879 A most obvious place to start as understanding what pipeline in revenue you need to 2 00:00:03.960 --> 00:00:07.549 generate. I'm working back from that and then, of course, understanding how 3 00:00:07.549 --> 00:00:11.750 much you need to focus on in bound versus outland. You were listening to 4 00:00:11.869 --> 00:00:17.390 be tob revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay on the cutting 5 00:00:17.429 --> 00:00:21.030 edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's give in the show. 6 00:00:22.379 --> 00:00:25.899 Hi, welcome to be to be a revenue acceleration. My name is Ohiam's 7 00:00:25.940 --> 00:00:30.379 here and I'm here today with Dancy Brook. See how our operatics. Are 8 00:00:30.420 --> 00:00:33.500 You doing today? That yeah, very good. Thank you. Oh good, 9 00:00:33.659 --> 00:00:35.729 how are you? Yeah, not too bad. Not Too bad. 10 00:00:35.770 --> 00:00:38.770 I think we sh your very well Christmas party last Friday, which is good. 11 00:00:39.649 --> 00:00:41.850 We know edding up towards the end of the year, so it is 12 00:00:41.850 --> 00:00:46.049 very exciting planning for two thousand and twenty two. So I'm not not complaining, 13 00:00:46.170 --> 00:00:50.560 loving it at the moment. And today we will be speaking about just 14 00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:53.399 a party for the people who are hitting. Are Just lost all my Microsoft 15 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:56.200 so I don't have the word document in front of me anymore. You may 16 00:00:56.280 --> 00:00:59.479 come up at some time, but today we will be speaking about how to 17 00:00:59.560 --> 00:01:03.200 budget for as yeah, which I think is a is kind of an interesting 18 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:07.349 topic tyfinitely something has been evolving over the last few years and and that's kind 19 00:01:07.349 --> 00:01:10.069 of my first question for you. Then you know, I'll do you think 20 00:01:10.109 --> 00:01:12.790 the role off his DA and the cost of is yeah, as evolved over 21 00:01:12.909 --> 00:01:15.790 the last few years. So I think that's a few factors. From my 22 00:01:15.870 --> 00:01:21.019 perspective, one of the most important factors to consider the last few years is 23 00:01:21.060 --> 00:01:27.299 probably the increase in the appreciation as to how important and your function is within 24 00:01:27.340 --> 00:01:30.859 a business and it actually being considered much more of a stand alone strategic function 25 00:01:30.980 --> 00:01:34.250 than it was once was. But I think if you cost a mind back 26 00:01:34.250 --> 00:01:37.810 a few years ago, it is very much just considered an entry point in 27 00:01:37.890 --> 00:01:42.010 two sales with people desperate to become can't exacts or go into other roles as 28 00:01:42.010 --> 00:01:46.849 soon as possible, whereas now, I think being a kind of world class 29 00:01:47.129 --> 00:01:51.400 str has considered a good career in its own right and actually the str function 30 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:55.000 being considered a strategic function in its own right. And now in a lot 31 00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:59.200 of businesses, from what I see, it's it's actual a stand alone function, 32 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:02.670 not necessarily just part of sales or just part of marketing. It's actually 33 00:02:02.670 --> 00:02:07.909 a stand alone strategic function. So with that kind of increase in in the 34 00:02:08.030 --> 00:02:13.030 importance of the role of the at least how important it is being considered, 35 00:02:13.349 --> 00:02:17.460 certainly that's obviously increased what the top strs can command from a salary perspective. 36 00:02:17.500 --> 00:02:23.340 I mean the other element is is the competition out there. So there's, 37 00:02:23.699 --> 00:02:29.300 I think you know, there's thousands of unfilled str and aid positions today in 38 00:02:29.379 --> 00:02:34.090 the SASS market, on the software market and nactually that's obviously created that that 39 00:02:34.289 --> 00:02:38.889 typical SIPPAL and demand issue for companies, and so that's pushing salaries up and 40 00:02:38.169 --> 00:02:42.050 and their way bigger than they were just a few years ago. And then, 41 00:02:42.210 --> 00:02:46.520 of course the other element to consider is inflation, which is running at 42 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:49.960 a pretty steep amount in both UK and US. I think in the UKs 43 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:53.360 north of six percent. In the UK it's around for four point two, 44 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:55.479 four point three percent. So that's having a massive knock on impact on what 45 00:02:55.599 --> 00:02:59.550 companies are having to pay stoff. And then, I know the other element 46 00:02:59.750 --> 00:03:04.830 is just finally, is the pressure that covid created on pipeline generation. So 47 00:03:05.389 --> 00:03:08.909 historically marketing team sells teams have had all of these different kind of functions that 48 00:03:09.389 --> 00:03:15.939 they've been able to utilize to build quipeline events, in person activities, digital 49 00:03:15.060 --> 00:03:20.939 marketing activities, you know, other account based marketing elements. And then now 50 00:03:21.500 --> 00:03:24.099 really one of the key sources to market, or key roots market, I 51 00:03:24.139 --> 00:03:28.810 should say, more so than Everest, is around an str team, because 52 00:03:28.889 --> 00:03:34.370 it's something that's been able to be Brazilian and robust despite the different changing landscape 53 00:03:34.409 --> 00:03:38.530 of of business, with with the impact of Covid and I think that's increased 54 00:03:38.969 --> 00:03:44.520 the popularity and increase of strategic importance of str teams in general and therefore just 55 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:47.960 it pushed the costs up of having a team in house or indeed outsting that, 56 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:52.719 Ye know, I've seen that does where completely a group is. Yeah, 57 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:54.990 I think on top of that there is all that mixed up together with 58 00:03:55.110 --> 00:04:00.189 a with a massive dose of urgency, because I think what we saw or 59 00:04:00.310 --> 00:04:06.550 the course of covied is organization that probably had to reduce a target market by 60 00:04:06.750 --> 00:04:10.860 thirty percent, you know, when you remove all the traveling companies, when 61 00:04:10.860 --> 00:04:14.300 you removed rtel chains and everything was struggling. Of all the course of Fur, 62 00:04:14.819 --> 00:04:16.860 of all the course of of Covid Nain team. That would mean that 63 00:04:17.019 --> 00:04:19.860 we had less I comes to go after or less it comes to go after, 64 00:04:19.980 --> 00:04:24.100 so less medium to go after us and I think a big one for 65 00:04:24.329 --> 00:04:27.370 customer. I was read the events. Even for us, you know, 66 00:04:27.449 --> 00:04:30.970 as a as a certain marketing team, events have always been very good to 67 00:04:30.089 --> 00:04:32.970 us and when you don't have dose events anymore, you're missing. I don't 68 00:04:33.050 --> 00:04:35.970 know, I don't normally leads you you are losing, but probably a big 69 00:04:36.089 --> 00:04:41.199 part of your strategy. But all that mixed up with a tremendous amount of 70 00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:45.800 urgency because we need to we need to make the targets that maybe we could 71 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:48.399 not be less sure. I have personally seen cost offer his. The are 72 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:53.430 going through the roof like a the actual custofer resource. I don't know what 73 00:04:53.629 --> 00:04:57.069 your views on that, but I think a probably see that costs evolving by 74 00:04:57.110 --> 00:05:00.829 at least, if it's not thirty five person at least thirty percent in the 75 00:05:00.910 --> 00:05:05.509 last couple of years. And I think not only the costs increase, but 76 00:05:05.670 --> 00:05:12.220 I think the standout that people are requesting for the dsdal is also dropping down 77 00:05:12.540 --> 00:05:14.660 a light. In the US, people would have, like people who just 78 00:05:14.740 --> 00:05:17.019 come out of university now, if not going to school, that's fine. 79 00:05:17.060 --> 00:05:20.420 You can still be an estimatim in fact, no education at all still work. 80 00:05:21.129 --> 00:05:24.529 What are you also sometimes you do you agree with a statement or do 81 00:05:24.569 --> 00:05:27.370 you think it's a you have a different view? Well, yeah, absolutely. 82 00:05:27.370 --> 00:05:29.730 I mean I think if you look at some of the some of the 83 00:05:29.769 --> 00:05:33.569 roads out there from an sure perspective, they're probably from from a salary and 84 00:05:33.610 --> 00:05:38.399 at perspective matching what you would be in paid. Is like a an SMBA 85 00:05:38.480 --> 00:05:42.319 or mid market account exactive two, three years ago. For sure, they're 86 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:46.040 climbing up and and the interesting thing is, to your point, in our 87 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:49.509 case working is now so organized and where clients may a certain point in time 88 00:05:49.550 --> 00:05:53.990 want to recruit people directly from us, they may be recruiting someone that one 89 00:05:53.990 --> 00:05:58.990 year ago was working in an environment definitely not aligned with their high growth software 90 00:05:58.990 --> 00:06:00.589 company, and then, you know, on a lot less money in today 91 00:06:00.589 --> 00:06:04.100 they're plucking them and probably paying them for four five times or they would have 92 00:06:04.100 --> 00:06:08.019 been paid a year ago. And yes, they've obviously learned a certain amount 93 00:06:08.019 --> 00:06:11.980 and they've up skilled themselves certain amount in that period of time that that they're 94 00:06:12.019 --> 00:06:15.259 in their last job to going into the next one. But I mean it's 95 00:06:15.300 --> 00:06:17.500 not the same as having, take three, five, seven years business experience 96 00:06:17.500 --> 00:06:21.209 where they've developed themselves, you know, and their commercial lacking in so I 97 00:06:21.370 --> 00:06:26.050 completely agree. It's a the other challenge, of course, is the incredible 98 00:06:26.050 --> 00:06:29.290 amount of funding and to your point around urgency, when you see that the 99 00:06:29.410 --> 00:06:33.360 funding has quadrupled in the last year and, you know, multiplied by five 100 00:06:33.399 --> 00:06:38.160 times in the last two years, then was it was its six billion in 101 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:42.920 just the data from crunch base was probably a very, very, very top 102 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:46.230 of different number. Did we did we look at six million in twenty twenty 103 00:06:46.750 --> 00:06:53.069 of startups receiving investment to twenty one million this year. That's right. What 104 00:06:53.269 --> 00:06:56.910 billion? Yeah, so fur fell. Four billion in two thousand and nineteen, 105 00:06:56.990 --> 00:07:00.350 five billion in two thousand and twenty and twenty one billion in two thousand 106 00:07:00.350 --> 00:07:03.139 and twenty one. So mean, naturally they're just an incredible amount of pressure 107 00:07:03.180 --> 00:07:09.060 coming from the market, from BCS to accelerate growth as quickly as possible. 108 00:07:09.139 --> 00:07:12.180 And and it's not just at the amount of funding, its the size of 109 00:07:12.259 --> 00:07:15.769 these funding around. So there's certain companies out there taking five hundred million or 110 00:07:15.970 --> 00:07:19.129 a billion dollars of funding in a series be of seriously, they just have 111 00:07:19.329 --> 00:07:21.769 more money. It's as simple as that. They just have more money to 112 00:07:21.889 --> 00:07:26.529 throw a growth. I'm not sure it would probably align with the most sensible 113 00:07:26.569 --> 00:07:30.279 business practice in some instances as to how to grow, but I mean the 114 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:32.120 money's in the bank, so then they need to do it right and it's 115 00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:36.040 you know, the feedback we get from our clients, I think points towards 116 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:41.399 and as six, not not just growth but the speed of growth. It's 117 00:07:41.399 --> 00:07:44.279 not just it's not good enough to grow, but doing it over ten years. 118 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:46.389 You've got to do in two years. So you know, I mean 119 00:07:46.709 --> 00:07:49.629 that condensing a hell of a lot of funding into a two year period to 120 00:07:49.709 --> 00:07:54.389 spend it means that they're just throwing money around us as much as possible and 121 00:07:54.589 --> 00:07:59.060 obviously that trickled down into all of the different sales roles and str roles that 122 00:07:59.139 --> 00:08:03.100 are out there. And then the other pressure of not being they're not being 123 00:08:03.180 --> 00:08:07.060 enough talented people out there, which is what I think brings a whole nother 124 00:08:07.300 --> 00:08:13.930 arguments the table, which is about diversity. So actually not just hiring people 125 00:08:13.970 --> 00:08:18.970 with your typical technology sales background, but hiring people from other diverse backgrounds that 126 00:08:18.009 --> 00:08:22.209 you can potentially take. You know someone that was working in hospitality a year 127 00:08:22.209 --> 00:08:24.490 ago that have now lost that drop because of coving could actually be perfect for 128 00:08:24.529 --> 00:08:28.680 an str role and I actually, you know, in a year or two 129 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:31.039 be on a lot of money compared to what they would have been in hospitality. 130 00:08:31.679 --> 00:08:35.000 Now. I was working in the cooke tail bar before before taking they 131 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:41.549 first may feels bit like the song. So that's that's true, Bin Interesting. 132 00:08:41.590 --> 00:08:43.669 So on one side, if we look at it from the vendor perspective, 133 00:08:45.070 --> 00:08:48.990 lots of funding, not only for yourself but for other people around you. 134 00:08:48.190 --> 00:08:56.299 So obviously everybody's running after growing war for talents made the asdr dl a's 135 00:08:56.659 --> 00:09:01.419 sees and all that. Everybody is recruiting. Nobody's got to sensetive big enough. 136 00:09:01.100 --> 00:09:05.139 So the salary goes up, the cost of salary goes up. What 137 00:09:05.340 --> 00:09:09.139 were your perspective on the actual response to the market? Because with more and 138 00:09:09.220 --> 00:09:11.690 more companies, I mean more and more technology companies to start with, I 139 00:09:11.769 --> 00:09:15.929 felt, I think, there is an increasing time of the number of start 140 00:09:15.970 --> 00:09:20.090 up every year. There is obviously with that the increasing time of the investment 141 00:09:20.450 --> 00:09:24.009 going to start up company. With that there is an increasing time of volume 142 00:09:24.049 --> 00:09:26.879 of his Dr Globally and I think the volume of is your globally is increasing. 143 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:31.480 You're on are what's the response of the market? Was the response of 144 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:35.360 prospect do you think is still easier than eyear to get through the folks, 145 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:41.070 through the through the noise and still get that vital meeting for your account manager 146 00:09:41.549 --> 00:09:45.389 and all that proof of value or that they more set up for your accop 147 00:09:45.429 --> 00:09:48.830 manager, or do you think is becoming more difficult than ever? Well, 148 00:09:48.870 --> 00:09:50.269 an, there's a couple of things and if you look back a few years 149 00:09:50.269 --> 00:09:54.980 ago and even much longer than when I started my career, obviously there was 150 00:09:54.139 --> 00:10:00.860 the one side offense. It was easier because you were not competing with as 151 00:10:00.940 --> 00:10:05.740 many organizations and as many other rest yours as you are today, and so 152 00:10:05.340 --> 00:10:09.169 when you could find them reach the right prospects, you are probably having a 153 00:10:09.769 --> 00:10:13.450 better conversation, not only because there's less competition but also because they were less 154 00:10:13.450 --> 00:10:18.769 educated. Today's buyers are so educated that they know more about your solution before 155 00:10:18.769 --> 00:10:22.600 you even the new do by the time that you engage them. There was 156 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:24.879 that element which was easier. The thing that made it harder than a few 157 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:28.720 years ago and much longer than that was the lack of tools and data and 158 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:33.080 inside that you've got today. So of course, if you fast forward to 159 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:37.110 today, there as much more competition, for sure in terms of STRs, 160 00:10:37.470 --> 00:10:41.909 number of vendors, number about sources to our companies and all that. There's 161 00:10:41.950 --> 00:10:45.230 definitely more competition. But then on the other side of it, there are 162 00:10:45.269 --> 00:10:46.870 a lot of a lot more tools to make your life easier, and I 163 00:10:46.990 --> 00:10:52.539 think there are more tools around intend data, that more tooled around data itself, 164 00:10:54.139 --> 00:11:00.379 around sales automation, around cool it intelligence, called coaching software, although 165 00:11:00.419 --> 00:11:03.220 different types of technologies and data platforms that can make an s your life easier. 166 00:11:03.690 --> 00:11:07.809 So yes, it can be more difficult to stand out from the crowd, 167 00:11:07.250 --> 00:11:11.210 but you've got more tools that you're disposal to allot to support you to 168 00:11:11.250 --> 00:11:13.090 do that. I think generally speaking, what we see, what we've seen, 169 00:11:13.289 --> 00:11:18.600 is we've probably seen a steady, certainly not an aggressive but a slight 170 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:22.759 decline probably in productivity per efty. But the difference is, I would say, 171 00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:26.320 that the value of that meeting, when a meeting is it's delivered to 172 00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:31.080 her an AE, is higher and therefore often it's a better conversation and often 173 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:35.029 the conversion rate from meeting to opportunity goes up because I think whenever when a 174 00:11:35.110 --> 00:11:39.309 buyer is taking a meeting it's a more serious meeting and perhaps it would have 175 00:11:39.350 --> 00:11:43.029 been ten, five, ten fifteen years when they were less educated about the 176 00:11:43.070 --> 00:11:46.110 prospect and it was much more education. So I think it's a changing landscape. 177 00:11:46.110 --> 00:11:52.460 I think there's less probably educational meetings and much more quality when when when 178 00:11:52.500 --> 00:11:56.059 sitting in front of her prospect they you raise a very good point. So 179 00:11:56.220 --> 00:11:58.299 cost of just the air goes up. It's probably a bit more difficult to 180 00:11:58.379 --> 00:12:03.129 get the results. So technically, your cusper lead, your cusper demo, 181 00:12:03.289 --> 00:12:07.330 your cusper proof of concept, your cospel opportunity or cosper deal close is increasing. 182 00:12:07.649 --> 00:12:11.850 Okay, but you raise a good point around the technology, right, 183 00:12:11.970 --> 00:12:15.490 and I think this is very important. When we budget for as Dr Bda 184 00:12:15.610 --> 00:12:18.200 sometimes we made the silly mistake of just looking at the individual. Right, 185 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:22.799 but you've got to manage the individual. The individual probably in more tools more 186 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:26.759 than ever right now, and I think you mentioned a few of them. 187 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:31.389 So sends automation, Potentially Marketing Automation, but marketing automation is probably not the 188 00:12:31.509 --> 00:12:35.669 cause that you would associate with Vida, more with marketing activities. So sells 189 00:12:35.710 --> 00:12:41.950 automation, conversational intelligence, to the lack of going refract chorus sends love to 190 00:12:41.990 --> 00:12:46.220 all those guys. Obviously, probably Linkedin as well. I think linkedin sells 191 00:12:46.259 --> 00:12:48.179 that degator is a big one. Yeah, and then you all the data 192 00:12:48.259 --> 00:12:52.179 stuff. So data could be seem less, could be zooming for could be 193 00:12:52.419 --> 00:12:56.620 six sens could be Lusha, all those tool that are giving you access to 194 00:12:56.659 --> 00:13:01.330 the data. You know roughly and on average, you know how much would 195 00:13:01.330 --> 00:13:05.049 you seem need? That's monstly because because when you had them all together they 196 00:13:05.090 --> 00:13:07.690 must have at this we were probably talking about that list. And as are 197 00:13:09.250 --> 00:13:13.039 five sound five hundred to a thousand dollars with a foot on top of the 198 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:16.200 custom yet true person? Yeah, I would imagine so. I mean, 199 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:18.480 I think the thing is it will depend on the size of the organization as 200 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:22.519 well as in the STR team itself, because of course, if you're buying 201 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:28.070 all of those solutions and you have a manager over you only have two strs, 202 00:13:28.269 --> 00:13:31.429 then you're the cost of all of those tools and the management of though 203 00:13:31.429 --> 00:13:33.990 people are going to be relatively high. I think you spread it over a 204 00:13:35.070 --> 00:13:37.750 slightly larger team, it starts to make more sense. Generally speaking, I 205 00:13:37.830 --> 00:13:43.820 think a rule of thumb I've kind of heard and it sounds sensible to me, 206 00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:46.299 is that probably when you have a team of five to six SDRS, 207 00:13:46.340 --> 00:13:50.019 it can start to make sense to look at bring that in house. Below 208 00:13:50.100 --> 00:13:52.340 that it can start to be relatively expensive to have that in the house. 209 00:13:52.700 --> 00:13:56.929 When you look right across the whole kind of life cycle of having an str 210 00:13:56.370 --> 00:14:00.450 you have to start with the with the recruitment, the cost of recruitment. 211 00:14:00.570 --> 00:14:03.409 That whether you have that recruiter in how to use an agency, there's some 212 00:14:03.570 --> 00:14:07.129 there is some cost along the lines. Then there's the enablement of that person, 213 00:14:07.250 --> 00:14:09.850 whether you have a training person or enablement person. That's going to be 214 00:14:09.889 --> 00:14:13.559 a searching cost. Then the other element to consider is that they're not going 215 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:16.759 to be productive day one. It might take them three to six months and 216 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.720 I think that process is elongating, to be honest, not shortening in terms 217 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:24.669 of the timeline to get that person successful. So in that first three months 218 00:14:24.669 --> 00:14:28.029 you're certainly not going to make the profit or the RII that you're expecting to 219 00:14:28.110 --> 00:14:31.870 make on that individual. But is it when they've been doing the job for 220 00:14:31.070 --> 00:14:35.590 a one year period and then of course, to make that person successful. 221 00:14:35.629 --> 00:14:37.509 To your point, you have all of those tools. And then something that's 222 00:14:37.509 --> 00:14:41.340 often overlooked is if you have a management a manager I should say, you 223 00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:45.019 need to spread that management cost over the team that you have in place. 224 00:14:45.460 --> 00:14:48.019 But if you don't have a manager, someone's got to manage them. So 225 00:14:48.100 --> 00:14:52.220 then you must be thinking, well, it's a crow or BEPF sales who's 226 00:14:52.220 --> 00:14:56.570 done a pretty good salary, spreading their costs across that team as well and 227 00:14:56.690 --> 00:15:01.169 the time associated with doing so. So and of course you have to then 228 00:15:01.210 --> 00:15:05.929 deal with churn, which is an str wants to be promoted probably after six 229 00:15:05.009 --> 00:15:09.559 months twelve months of good performance. They want to come in a and it 230 00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:11.960 must be one of the highest churning roles within a sales environment, just because 231 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:16.279 it's entry level people that you're often not able to qualify that if they are 232 00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:20.200 really cut out for that role or not. And so you have a slightly 233 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:24.190 higher channeing you'd expect in any other part of the business and there's a cost 234 00:15:24.230 --> 00:15:26.590 that you've got you've got to attach to that. So I think when you 235 00:15:26.669 --> 00:15:31.230 build it all in, it's probably another thirty, two fifty percent on top 236 00:15:31.269 --> 00:15:33.950 of just that that raw salary, the gross cellery. I think there's a 237 00:15:33.230 --> 00:15:37.139 considerable amount more cost on top of that. And Yeah, I think, 238 00:15:37.460 --> 00:15:39.659 you know, a thousand pounds or a thousand dollars is probably on the very 239 00:15:39.700 --> 00:15:43.059 low end when you consider the churn and the cost of recruitment and the cost 240 00:15:43.100 --> 00:15:46.419 of management and all of that. Yeah, that's next. That makes perfect 241 00:15:46.419 --> 00:15:52.289 sense. Do Qush out the worst? I'm probably being as a question literally 242 00:15:52.289 --> 00:15:56.570 every week. Why should I outsource? It seems to be shipped by faiths 243 00:15:56.769 --> 00:15:58.970 or sit's. I've got my own started. That's one that I'd like to 244 00:16:00.049 --> 00:16:02.889 a'd like to your your spost and then, if it's not the same old 245 00:16:02.929 --> 00:16:04.679 come up was made. But you know what's so on sort of the what? 246 00:16:04.759 --> 00:16:07.759 What do you think is the benefit of insourcing? Thus alsocing, and 247 00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:12.159 of course will be by us because we work for prietings in we are sells. 248 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:18.750 I'll Sare so, but you know what would be of your ownest pure 249 00:16:18.909 --> 00:16:25.429 opinion on that matter. So naturally that aren'to varies from companies company depending on 250 00:16:25.509 --> 00:16:27.230 their context. But if you just think about it in a very kind of 251 00:16:27.269 --> 00:16:32.230 black and white fashion, all of our plans to be top technology companies right 252 00:16:32.429 --> 00:16:37.740 and they're their speciality is is manufacturing, creating, developing and selling software, 253 00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:45.139 but there their expertise typically is not in creating demand for that software or that 254 00:16:45.220 --> 00:16:48.570 technology. They do have some smart people in the business are able to do 255 00:16:48.649 --> 00:16:52.929 so, but actually being able to develop and scare the make success for the 256 00:16:52.970 --> 00:16:56.009 NESTYR team probably one of the hardest things to do, primarily because of the 257 00:16:56.090 --> 00:16:59.129 profile of person. You're normally having someone that's at the more junior end of 258 00:16:59.169 --> 00:17:02.639 their career and, of course, all also it's actually one of the most 259 00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:07.119 intricate roles out there right now. I think when you look at the key 260 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:11.400 value in today's market of an outsort of company versus doing it in house, 261 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:15.109 there's a few things. I think the skill shortage and and the lack of 262 00:17:15.269 --> 00:17:19.150 available talent is a massive thing, because if you went to think today is 263 00:17:19.150 --> 00:17:22.869 day one you want to build up a nest your team, you're going to 264 00:17:22.910 --> 00:17:25.589 find it really have to find the right people are on board, the right 265 00:17:25.670 --> 00:17:26.990 people, and then it's going to take you a long time to get them. 266 00:17:27.029 --> 00:17:30.099 Success will probably three to six months. The value of an outsourced test 267 00:17:30.220 --> 00:17:33.420 our companies that we have the people. Today we have the best practice. 268 00:17:33.700 --> 00:17:37.059 We have the management infrastructure, we have the tools. That data are the 269 00:17:37.180 --> 00:17:41.779 insights, the birds I view across all of our other clients to know what's 270 00:17:41.819 --> 00:17:45.609 making them successful and not successful, and we can apply that logic and that 271 00:17:45.690 --> 00:17:48.410 intelligence and that experience to a new client and get them off the ground much 272 00:17:48.450 --> 00:17:52.210 more quickly. Now, that's not saying that we're magicians, but we have 273 00:17:52.289 --> 00:17:56.849 all of those different elements in place today. That other that if you're building 274 00:17:56.849 --> 00:17:59.640 that team from scratch today, you wouldn't have. So I think what it 275 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:03.599 comes down to is the speed and the scale and the experience. And then 276 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:06.480 the other element, of course, is when you're building up a team, 277 00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:08.319 you've got to make a decision. Do you want to build that team and 278 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:11.880 do the US or do you want to build that team and do Europe? 279 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:14.950 And from a business such as us, we have the ability to bring that 280 00:18:15.069 --> 00:18:19.109 scale globally from one organization. They're not only do you benefit from all of 281 00:18:19.230 --> 00:18:22.390 those elements I just spoke about, you can do that a global scale, 282 00:18:22.750 --> 00:18:26.500 and that's something that's quite difficult to do if you have to hire full time 283 00:18:26.500 --> 00:18:30.940 equivalence in a particular region at any particular time and then I think the other 284 00:18:32.059 --> 00:18:37.900 element is the ability to test the market before you know that you absolutely need 285 00:18:37.059 --> 00:18:41.529 an str or before you know exactly what you're needing an str for. So 286 00:18:42.049 --> 00:18:45.809 if you look at what we do for a lot of earlier stage companies is 287 00:18:45.890 --> 00:18:49.210 that we're almost like a market research organization and that, yes, we deliver 288 00:18:49.250 --> 00:18:52.369 a meeting to the prospect and to the client, I should say, but 289 00:18:52.529 --> 00:18:56.400 what what we're also doing is a lot of validation and testing of the message 290 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.559 to understand what's really resonating and not. Then we can pass that back to 291 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:04.079 our client and once they feel that they've got actually a really well defined, 292 00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:08.160 well written, clear, concise playbook around the messaging, is at that point 293 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:11.710 in time when they built up enough demand that they may make sense to start 294 00:19:11.869 --> 00:19:15.549 transitioning that functioning house. One of the clear benefits of having that function in 295 00:19:15.630 --> 00:19:19.470 house of courses, if you've got that bottom layer of talent, that is 296 00:19:19.950 --> 00:19:25.220 a talent pool to fuel your aids of the future. So that is an 297 00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:27.900 element to consider. Then that's something else that we often will deliver to our 298 00:19:29.019 --> 00:19:32.140 clients as well in the form of a conveyor out of talent, which is 299 00:19:32.299 --> 00:19:34.059 we can work together for a period of time, one year, two year, 300 00:19:34.140 --> 00:19:37.420 three years, and then at a certain point of in the future they 301 00:19:37.500 --> 00:19:41.450 may actually want to recruit that person from operatics, for you know, at 302 00:19:41.490 --> 00:19:45.329 a pre agreed ray to pretty group price and recruitment structure that we have. 303 00:19:45.970 --> 00:19:51.089 But ultimately it allows them to once they understand the market, once they understand 304 00:19:51.089 --> 00:19:55.279 that sale process, once they have an SDR team built up, it's much 305 00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:59.160 safer better then go down and go down the route of actually hiring and building 306 00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:03.079 that team in house. So I think a few different elements. Naturally that 307 00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:06.680 will change from clime to crime and you can get into the weeks of where 308 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:08.349 they're doing in bound versus outbound and all of that. But at a very 309 00:20:08.390 --> 00:20:12.509 high level, I think at in today's world it comes down to the speed 310 00:20:12.589 --> 00:20:18.670 and scale and efficiency of having a team outsource versus actually can having the opportunity 311 00:20:18.750 --> 00:20:22.779 to go in house. Yeah, yeah, use some way. I mean 312 00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:26.019 the last time I was, as the question is, someone I actually knew 313 00:20:26.019 --> 00:20:30.900 and did some business within the past, was with with someone else on that 314 00:20:30.299 --> 00:20:36.410 in that was a bit like new to the concept of outsourcing and the way 315 00:20:36.410 --> 00:20:37.809 also the question is to look at you very smart I'm sure you're going to 316 00:20:37.849 --> 00:20:40.369 work it out. If you want to do it on your own, you 317 00:20:40.410 --> 00:20:41.809 can do it, you know. But the question is, do you have 318 00:20:41.930 --> 00:20:45.289 six months, you have nine months, or do you want to get it 319 00:20:45.329 --> 00:20:48.049 done now? You know we can get it that now. We will be 320 00:20:48.130 --> 00:20:51.839 a little bit more expensive probablydden building your own team. In fact, I 321 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:55.440 think that could be debatable because you've got a good point of turn over in 322 00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:57.559 the team and repreating people and things like that. There is lots of from 323 00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:02.359 cost, but usually speedies is of the essence. I think if she if 324 00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:07.029 you don't have time, it's very difficult to do it in house or almost 325 00:21:07.109 --> 00:21:10.230 risky because if you make a mistaken you know you've got to do a change 326 00:21:10.309 --> 00:21:12.269 in the team or or you've got to see people coming and going from that 327 00:21:12.390 --> 00:21:15.950 team. They can really set you back. But yeah, I think I 328 00:21:15.349 --> 00:21:18.900 agree with you. I think time is the most is the most important element 329 00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:23.460 in the Indians. Or to that question now, I'll do you evaluate the 330 00:21:23.500 --> 00:21:27.140 number of videas there is in your team? Right, so I'm a startups. 331 00:21:27.140 --> 00:21:30.259 I've got my target for next year. I've got a bit of thin 332 00:21:30.380 --> 00:21:33.250 bound I've got a bit, you know, need to do a bit of 333 00:21:33.329 --> 00:21:37.809 Holt Bounds. Don't it five and six, when it ten? What was 334 00:21:37.890 --> 00:21:41.049 the way to was the way to evaluate the mean? Yes, the Avidea 335 00:21:41.049 --> 00:21:42.809 you need in your team. You know, the one of the most obvious 336 00:21:44.009 --> 00:21:48.240 places to start is is understanding what amount of revenue you want to generate from 337 00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:51.279 that particular part of Your Business. So you know, if you take a 338 00:21:51.400 --> 00:21:55.599 total topline target, you're going to have different areas where that pipeline is going 339 00:21:55.640 --> 00:21:56.920 to come from, that revenue's going to come from. Some of it's going 340 00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:00.799 to be marketing, some of it's going to be from the A, some 341 00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:03.549 of it's going to be from channel partners, some some of it's going to 342 00:22:03.630 --> 00:22:06.869 be, you know, introductions by board members and be season all of that. 343 00:22:06.910 --> 00:22:10.390 And there's some of it's going to come from from a, the str 344 00:22:10.470 --> 00:22:14.789 function. Now often a rule of thumb used is that for an a maybe 345 00:22:14.829 --> 00:22:17.539 a third of their target should come from strs, a third coming from in 346 00:22:17.619 --> 00:22:21.019 bound, a third coming from themselves or, you know, a third from 347 00:22:21.339 --> 00:22:25.299 marketing, which may include strs, a third from themselves, a third from 348 00:22:25.299 --> 00:22:27.619 channel partner. So there's normally a third of third of third rule somewhere in 349 00:22:27.660 --> 00:22:32.049 there for an ae to do their number. The reality is, I think, 350 00:22:32.089 --> 00:22:34.250 when you look at understanding how many SDRs dire actually need your business, 351 00:22:34.250 --> 00:22:37.769 it needs to start with how much pipeline revenue you want to generate on a 352 00:22:38.410 --> 00:22:42.289 quarterly or annual base. It from that str group and then understanding, you 353 00:22:42.410 --> 00:22:47.640 know, some of the the kind of saled funnel that contributes towards that in 354 00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:52.319 terms of how many deals do you need to actually execute in order to get 355 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:56.079 to your revenue objective? What is your average deal size from opportunity to close 356 00:22:56.160 --> 00:23:02.190 one? What's your conversion rate from meeting to opportunity, from and even coming 357 00:23:02.269 --> 00:23:06.349 back from further than that, from mql to meeting and all that? Now 358 00:23:06.829 --> 00:23:08.710 the other element to considers. It's not just about in the early stage of 359 00:23:08.789 --> 00:23:12.059 the business, it's not just about the revenue, because I think a big 360 00:23:12.500 --> 00:23:17.460 and often overlooked part is is around understanding the market. So a lot of 361 00:23:17.500 --> 00:23:22.900 our clients will often take more strs than they need in some instances because they 362 00:23:22.980 --> 00:23:26.819 want to yes, be getting more, more opportunities at the table, but 363 00:23:26.859 --> 00:23:30.210 they also want to to understand more about the market more quickly, because most 364 00:23:30.210 --> 00:23:33.730 of our plants are operating in extremely high growth markets. Where they want to 365 00:23:33.769 --> 00:23:36.410 go and you know, have a rep in the US, are reper in 366 00:23:36.490 --> 00:23:38.690 France or rep in the UK or up in the audits, whatever, and 367 00:23:40.450 --> 00:23:44.440 really get market feedback very quickly at the same time as having sales conversations, 368 00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:48.279 and in a lot of instances it almost becomes as valuable as probably a deal, 369 00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:52.200 because it can influence their message in their marketing, their product road map 370 00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:53.799 and all of that. I think you know. But coming back to your 371 00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:57.430 point, the most obvious place to start as understanding what pipeline in revenue you 372 00:23:57.509 --> 00:24:02.509 need to generate and working back from that and then, of course, understanding 373 00:24:02.589 --> 00:24:04.630 how much you need to focus on in bound versus outband. But I don't 374 00:24:04.670 --> 00:24:07.670 think there's a one side fits all answer there, just because of the amount 375 00:24:07.710 --> 00:24:11.740 of market validation or market research you may actually want to do for your sluice. 376 00:24:12.099 --> 00:24:15.900 Yeah, I would. What do you think of that? I think 377 00:24:15.940 --> 00:24:18.660 he's a tough cushion to on stage, folk quare. Ask It to be 378 00:24:18.180 --> 00:24:22.299 asked it to you, just just a cutu would say to be this was 379 00:24:22.380 --> 00:24:25.529 your would. You're right, he can be like so very we've got some 380 00:24:25.809 --> 00:24:29.529 clients, so I that tost an some clients. This show will and we've 381 00:24:29.529 --> 00:24:33.410 got to be mindful of that as well. So kind of going slightly on 382 00:24:33.490 --> 00:24:34.450 the side of the on somewhere. I will get to young S, but 383 00:24:36.130 --> 00:24:40.000 you mentioned of a few daming that in the composition in Bundas without bound I 384 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:42.519 think this is such an important, important topick as well. At the moment 385 00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:48.759 we've had many clients that have struggled to generate the right level of in bounds 386 00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:53.589 to sustain that growth or the growth that is expected from them. Okay, 387 00:24:53.829 --> 00:24:59.390 but unfortunately or fortunately for them, they have been able to up to a 388 00:24:59.630 --> 00:25:03.309 certain point they've been able to sustain their growth, and quite a quick growth, 389 00:25:03.430 --> 00:25:07.029 quite a high growth, with in bounds. Okay, but comes a 390 00:25:07.109 --> 00:25:10.859 points where in bound is not sufficiency. Need to turn to outbound, and 391 00:25:11.019 --> 00:25:12.940 I think it's usually when I've seen people saying, okay, we need to 392 00:25:14.019 --> 00:25:18.180 adksolse that, we need to adksource that, because in bound is okay, 393 00:25:18.460 --> 00:25:22.730 I'm selling. If I'm selling, I don't know, an electric car or 394 00:25:22.930 --> 00:25:25.450 TV, you're going to speak to people, just come to you and say 395 00:25:25.450 --> 00:25:27.650 as the consumption for long, can I go with it? Or if it's 396 00:25:27.650 --> 00:25:32.529 a TV, is it was a different between Plasma Orl the know approximatively what 397 00:25:32.930 --> 00:25:36.079 type of TV they want. They've already done a bit of shopping around. 398 00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:38.960 So you can go straight into something a little bit more product lad you can 399 00:25:40.039 --> 00:25:42.559 go straight into the stuff that you can learn by art, if you will. 400 00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:45.960 Okay, don't not think that. You you need to kind of create 401 00:25:47.079 --> 00:25:49.829 on the spots, etc. Etc. I think the art of prospecting and 402 00:25:49.950 --> 00:25:56.230 outbound prospecting is really around being relevant and pertinant to the people you are targeting, 403 00:25:56.950 --> 00:26:00.029 and that start about understanding your product. It's a bottomder something Indians user, 404 00:26:00.230 --> 00:26:06.059 it's a bottom the something. What's that? Title's their company and based 405 00:26:06.099 --> 00:26:08.940 on the vertical or the industry they work in and the title of the individual 406 00:26:10.259 --> 00:26:12.940 they are paying points, their issues will be different and you need to adapt 407 00:26:12.980 --> 00:26:17.339 to that. And then you need to have the value point behind of saying, 408 00:26:17.420 --> 00:26:19.609 Hey, if we work with individual like you, this is how much 409 00:26:19.690 --> 00:26:22.490 we can say, how much more efficiency we can bring, and this is 410 00:26:22.529 --> 00:26:26.930 what you would mean from a monetary perspective. Does that make sense to you? 411 00:26:26.970 --> 00:26:30.970 Yes or low? And I think this is what we've seen companies struggling 412 00:26:30.970 --> 00:26:36.400 in doing internally because they get probably the get that cells team brainwashed with product, 413 00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:38.279 product, product. You go to a kick off his product, product, 414 00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:41.880 when what you should do is to actually completely step back from the product, 415 00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:45.000 look at it from the balcony and look at your prospectency. Okay, 416 00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:48.950 what are they doing? How can I be personals in that context? And 417 00:26:49.029 --> 00:26:52.750 I think that's very, very difficult to do if you come sit on the 418 00:26:52.789 --> 00:26:57.190 balcony because you're you're the Bulcon if you just got your products and you mentioned 419 00:26:57.269 --> 00:27:00.190 something early on, which is, I think, that bird I view and 420 00:27:00.309 --> 00:27:06.099 nothin. That's a massive advantage for companies like us because we can see what's 421 00:27:06.140 --> 00:27:11.180 going on. We are defying we always in particularly over the course of Covid 422 00:27:11.259 --> 00:27:15.250 nineteen and even see even now, we've been adapting the way we operate. 423 00:27:15.690 --> 00:27:18.690 I think the methodology is pretty much the same, but the medium we've been 424 00:27:18.690 --> 00:27:22.730 using have changed. The phone was not workings, we had to move to 425 00:27:22.809 --> 00:27:25.849 Linkedin and then people got bother of Linkedin, so we had to move to 426 00:27:25.930 --> 00:27:30.039 something else. And it's always moving and that medium is always moving and it's 427 00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:34.039 about how quickly do you move, how quickly do you know about what's working 428 00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:37.839 was not working, and I'll quickly do you adapt technically. It's almost like 429 00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:41.480 the evolution theory of evolution. I think you you can move on much more 430 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:45.789 quicker in that space if you really have that knowledge, if you really have 431 00:27:45.910 --> 00:27:48.990 that intelligence. So coming back to your point about how do you esteem makes 432 00:27:49.029 --> 00:27:52.230 you know the out budget for your team, I think if you was me 433 00:27:52.829 --> 00:27:56.670 and I look at most of our clients and I had to do a rule 434 00:27:56.750 --> 00:28:03.180 of average, I think I would split my team between insource and outsource. 435 00:28:03.500 --> 00:28:07.900 Personally, which I think is probably what ninety five percent of our clients are 436 00:28:07.940 --> 00:28:11.970 doing anyway, I would probably keep the inbound internally because I know I can 437 00:28:12.049 --> 00:28:17.170 get my guys doing the product inside out and I can move those people to 438 00:28:17.289 --> 00:28:19.609 a position and stuff like that, because he is really what you know you 439 00:28:19.690 --> 00:28:23.210 would want to do. A potentially even says, but I can get them 440 00:28:23.289 --> 00:28:26.480 to ruin other products sell the product, being able to do them on the 441 00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:30.400 product, do a little bit more on the cell cycle, but they're already 442 00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:34.079 speaking to someone who's interested. Right, however, for the practive party, 443 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:37.160 is something that without source, okay, so the world would go about it. 444 00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:41.109 It's okay, this is how many Mquers, how many leads? I'm 445 00:28:41.150 --> 00:28:44.750 expecting to get from my marketing team next year. So I'll go to my 446 00:28:44.829 --> 00:28:47.950 marketing folks and say, okay, guys, what's your commitment? was going 447 00:28:47.990 --> 00:28:51.630 to be a contribution to seens or you gotta have that Mani. Okay. 448 00:28:51.869 --> 00:28:53.549 So I will do some math and say, I don't know, I need 449 00:28:53.670 --> 00:28:57.420 a hundred and fifty m to hours or two hundred and quel spare amounts in 450 00:28:57.539 --> 00:29:02.500 order to make one person, one full time equivalent, fully busy. Okay. 451 00:29:02.980 --> 00:29:06.779 So if I've got three hundred permounds, that's two people in my insight 452 00:29:06.859 --> 00:29:10.049 team, in my in my inbound team, in bound response, pennagement team. 453 00:29:10.609 --> 00:29:12.369 And I will go to my crro and say hey, okay, so 454 00:29:12.490 --> 00:29:15.970 you have marketing that will contribute thirty percent of your of your target for next 455 00:29:15.970 --> 00:29:19.250 year, Whatever Mang R it is. I'm expecting you to do some upset 456 00:29:19.329 --> 00:29:22.730 and cross them to some existing customers. So was that number. And that's 457 00:29:22.809 --> 00:29:26.519 basically what will come from the a's without, you know, any support from 458 00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:30.119 from outside. I would also expect the as to do a bit of the 459 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:33.400 work themselves. So I will expect them to go and cry down L so 460 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:37.599 I would ask my cro what I would look like and I will be left 461 00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:40.950 with a gap. Okay, and let's say that gap, for the purpose 462 00:29:41.029 --> 00:29:44.990 of the conversation, is as a million dollar. Right, I've got a 463 00:29:45.069 --> 00:29:48.430 million dollar to do. Next question is to look in my crm system. 464 00:29:48.829 --> 00:29:52.430 Look how many deals we close last year. What was a total booking value? 465 00:29:52.940 --> 00:29:56.539 Do the division. That will give you my average deal value. Let's 466 00:29:56.539 --> 00:29:59.220 say my average value is on Dreid K. I'm not really good at bath 467 00:29:59.299 --> 00:30:02.619 so I'm going to use some very, very simple Mathia. If I've got 468 00:30:02.660 --> 00:30:04.819 to do a million and I've got an undred caverage deal value, I need 469 00:30:04.900 --> 00:30:08.609 to press tend gams. Okay, and I will go through the classic of 470 00:30:08.769 --> 00:30:12.690 again going in the CRM system and say, okay, we've got we've got 471 00:30:12.769 --> 00:30:17.329 a twenty personal closing rate from opportunity to close. So in a lot to 472 00:30:17.410 --> 00:30:22.039 close ten deals, I need to a fifteen opportunities. Okay, and then 473 00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:23.880 I will just go out to the market and speak to a few hours or 474 00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:27.000 so and say, look, what our level of activity do you need to 475 00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:32.279 put in in order to create those fifty opportunities? For me, now what 476 00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:34.869 I need is fifty opportunities. The last thing that I would take into consideration 477 00:30:34.990 --> 00:30:38.309 is the length of my cell cycle. So if I want to be concerned 478 00:30:38.390 --> 00:30:42.950 with that hundred K averaged in value or Aarr, I would say that my 479 00:30:44.349 --> 00:30:48.509 cell cycle is probably six months, nine months Max. Maybe in some places 480 00:30:48.549 --> 00:30:51.619 in Europe or there is a bit more of a consensus with lots of prospect 481 00:30:51.619 --> 00:30:56.099 getting together, but let's say six months. So technically, for another when 482 00:30:56.099 --> 00:31:00.180 I we know we are in December, mid December, I've got six months 483 00:31:00.259 --> 00:31:03.369 and a half to go and get those fifty opportunities. Anything that will get 484 00:31:03.410 --> 00:31:08.769 after you know, July will technically could be a twenty, twenty three opportunity. 485 00:31:10.170 --> 00:31:12.210 Okay, unless I'm lucky and I managed to close them quicker. Right, 486 00:31:12.769 --> 00:31:17.329 and then, based on that I will try to get partners that give 487 00:31:17.369 --> 00:31:21.480 me different pricing as to what you would look like. So that that's how 488 00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:22.759 I would go about it. I think you you're writing the center. There 489 00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:26.279 is is a bit of a tricky question because there is no rule of so 490 00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:29.279 it depends where you add and and and again. I know that we've got 491 00:31:29.359 --> 00:31:33.470 lots of startups, founders and and start up employees listening to the podcast and 492 00:31:33.950 --> 00:31:37.589 often you don't add that data. You know, if you've been going for 493 00:31:37.829 --> 00:31:41.029 one yeah, you're going to a new territory. You don't know what you're 494 00:31:41.069 --> 00:31:42.750 closing right is, you don't really know what your average deal value is. 495 00:31:42.869 --> 00:31:47.700 So sometimes it's a little bit more of it's a little bit more of an 496 00:31:47.740 --> 00:31:51.140 experiment. But I think the sort process should be along this line. Short 497 00:31:51.180 --> 00:31:53.940 process, the soap process should be straight for worlds, based on what I 498 00:31:53.980 --> 00:31:56.500 can get from marketing, what I can get from myself s team, what 499 00:31:56.579 --> 00:32:00.059 I would expect to get from some of the people and really set up some 500 00:32:00.890 --> 00:32:07.369 type of working relationship with whoever outsource partner I would use, or even if 501 00:32:07.369 --> 00:32:09.329 I was to do it myself, in terms of bring the team internally, 502 00:32:09.849 --> 00:32:15.009 but setting up some rollers to not just a number of meetings. We need 503 00:32:15.049 --> 00:32:17.200 to get our number of them, all we need to do, but more 504 00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:22.039 like the the qualitative stuff. So you know also we having good conversation and 505 00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:25.079 stuff like that, because I think one of the that's a subject that you 506 00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:29.400 and I discuss at length, but I think when we when we tend to 507 00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:32.829 budget, we just look at our numbers, but our numbers often don't give 508 00:32:32.829 --> 00:32:36.869 you. Don't give you the reality of what you need to do. is 509 00:32:36.950 --> 00:32:38.910 not the qualitative stuff. The quality stuff is. Actually how many good, 510 00:32:39.069 --> 00:32:44.230 meaningful conversation are you having with prospect how many people are saying no to you? 511 00:32:44.339 --> 00:32:46.339 Why are the sake no? Because the noise as valuable as a yes. 512 00:32:46.900 --> 00:32:50.819 But sometimes we cannot forget about that because again, we are in the 513 00:32:50.900 --> 00:32:54.740 oar gen versus the important. So I would really I would really try to 514 00:32:54.779 --> 00:32:59.769 look at all that together. But again, coming back to the bottom, 515 00:33:00.289 --> 00:33:04.890 it's simple math, looking at the different sources of my needs. Looking at 516 00:33:04.970 --> 00:33:08.369 rough conversion rate, is a from historical data or thing that I can extrapolate 517 00:33:08.450 --> 00:33:13.240 from plastic spients and, you know, kind of flow off averages and a 518 00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:15.359 bit of a feeling, if you will, and then decide what I want 519 00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:17.759 to in solve. That's result source. There is start that I can keep 520 00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:21.960 close to my chest, because it's maybe the year I don't need someone to 521 00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:25.079 tell me on my product work. Technically, however, if I go to 522 00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:30.109 a new market and I don't know which companies to go after exactly, I'm 523 00:33:30.109 --> 00:33:32.470 not hundred personal shop, but the ICP or the person I should target. 524 00:33:32.829 --> 00:33:36.829 I'm not on hundred personal shore, but the Shue are facing an outo position 525 00:33:36.910 --> 00:33:39.549 my product. I would definitely go for someone has got experience in that field 526 00:33:39.630 --> 00:33:44.220 and try to try to save. Sometimes that's how go about it. To 527 00:33:44.299 --> 00:33:46.019 say, so much done for sharing your insight. I was super useful today. 528 00:33:46.140 --> 00:33:49.660 We see we we kind of speak on a daily basis. So, 529 00:33:49.819 --> 00:33:52.779 you know, hopefully be a much more, much more value for Jin and 530 00:33:52.859 --> 00:33:57.130 he was for me, because another kind of leave those topics on the daily 531 00:33:57.170 --> 00:34:00.849 basis. But if anyone wants to get in touch with you, always operatics, 532 00:34:00.849 --> 00:34:06.210 which we would tremendously encourage for one obvious reason. What was the bestly 533 00:34:06.329 --> 00:34:07.650 to get to get in touch with you then? And so I think, 534 00:34:08.369 --> 00:34:12.159 as ever roll always says, I think probably the best way is linkedin. 535 00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:16.039 For me, Damn Saeb on, Linkedin the company or protects donet is the 536 00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:20.480 best place. The inquiry will be picked up within about one minute by the 537 00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:23.710 sales team. So so I think I againyone to get it touched by a 538 00:34:23.829 --> 00:34:28.190 probably the best two places. And one last thing maybe before you go, 539 00:34:28.429 --> 00:34:31.469 because we we did something a little bit new this year with with pavilion, 540 00:34:31.630 --> 00:34:37.030 which was a family revenue collective. We publish a study with them. You 541 00:34:37.110 --> 00:34:38.340 want to take a minute or two just to just to go through that, 542 00:34:38.420 --> 00:34:43.860 because I think it's a great resource for people who are budgeting looking at this 543 00:34:43.900 --> 00:34:47.860 Dr Bid are trying to figure out cost trying to figure asked what should be 544 00:34:47.900 --> 00:34:52.460 the productivity. I mean it's quite a big report, but could you just 545 00:34:52.579 --> 00:34:55.010 think of a few moments just to take us through that and and maybe to 546 00:34:55.050 --> 00:34:58.769 Argents? But they can get it, so they so we can. We 547 00:34:59.449 --> 00:35:02.690 can see and with absolutely will. Firstly, I must that's a that's not 548 00:35:02.769 --> 00:35:07.599 a bad time to me to show this. Then if you can see that, 549 00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:09.599 I got this through my through my door today. It's some sort of 550 00:35:09.639 --> 00:35:15.000 a package from pavilion with with the with a note at and all of that. 551 00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:16.400 So I mean, that's that's very good. I guess that's what you 552 00:35:16.519 --> 00:35:20.239 get. If you remember. Yes, so the report that we did, 553 00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:22.829 I think it was called the state of self development, and basically it's a 554 00:35:22.150 --> 00:35:27.949 kind of code branded report between US and pavilion that both parties worked on to 555 00:35:28.469 --> 00:35:31.710 spend a lot of time on, you know, doing some research, identified 556 00:35:31.789 --> 00:35:37.619 pattern and collecting data to do some analysis on to understand what's actually going on 557 00:35:37.780 --> 00:35:40.500 within the world of self development. And that go from where pretty much covers 558 00:35:40.500 --> 00:35:46.500 all areas, from different technology stacks through to productivity pert or perst are. 559 00:35:47.219 --> 00:35:52.409 You know what type of salaries they should be getting paid. Well, seeing 560 00:35:52.449 --> 00:35:57.090 different types of success in different regions, in bound usus outbound lead flows, 561 00:35:57.369 --> 00:36:00.250 how much it each str is actually able to handle, and I think for 562 00:36:00.369 --> 00:36:04.090 us, again, we know a lot of that data just through conversations and 563 00:36:04.250 --> 00:36:07.400 dealing with it every single day. But we saw a lot of interest when 564 00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:10.440 we've been when we've been releasing that report. So I think, for example, 565 00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:15.480 on my linkedin there was, you know, over on fifteen hundred votes 566 00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:20.190 when you know around one of the particular questions, and I think the question 567 00:36:20.309 --> 00:36:24.429 was related to how many strs should be aligned to each a, and I 568 00:36:24.550 --> 00:36:29.349 know that's obviously created a lot of debate. We've had hundreds of downloads and 569 00:36:29.590 --> 00:36:32.739 and we're definitely not using that as a sales tactic. It's really an information 570 00:36:34.219 --> 00:36:36.739 provision, to be honest. We're giving that out to the market and a 571 00:36:36.780 --> 00:36:38.139 lot of people seem to be getting a lot of good use out of it. 572 00:36:38.739 --> 00:36:43.579 We have had some conversations off the back of it where they're very consolative, 573 00:36:43.659 --> 00:36:46.489 where we're just having conversations with people and they're asking our opinions about different 574 00:36:46.530 --> 00:36:51.570 elements to do with the str roll and world and more than happy to keep 575 00:36:51.570 --> 00:36:54.570 doing that. But I think it's it's definitely a report work downloading. It's 576 00:36:54.650 --> 00:36:59.610 like thirteen pages, so it's not light that time reading, but it's worth, 577 00:36:59.929 --> 00:37:01.159 you know, maybe using it more like a manual to go back to 578 00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:06.280 if you just have any questions or concerns to if it as to whether you're 579 00:37:06.280 --> 00:37:07.800 doing the right thing or not from last time. Yeah, it's starts of 580 00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:12.960 graph so it's it's a good squad. They just but it's available on our 581 00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:16.429 websites, I bel if. Yeah, absolutely available on our website and and 582 00:37:17.630 --> 00:37:21.110 if you can't find it and you can just get in touch with us and 583 00:37:21.150 --> 00:37:22.989 we will have you happily sent it up. Good stuff one. Thank you 584 00:37:23.030 --> 00:37:25.909 so much for your time done today was really reads very much as well. 585 00:37:27.190 --> 00:37:31.340 Good Chat. You've been listening to be tob rather new acceleration. To ensure 586 00:37:31.380 --> 00:37:35.940 that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast 587 00:37:36.059 --> 00:37:38.179 player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,

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