Episode Transcript
WEBVTT
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A most obvious place to start as
understanding what pipeline in revenue you need to
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generate. I'm working back from that
and then, of course, understanding how
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much you need to focus on in
bound versus outland. You were listening to
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be tob revenue acceleration, a podcast
dedicated helping software executive stay on the cutting
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edge of sales and marketing in their
industry. Let's give in the show.
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Hi, welcome to be to be
a revenue acceleration. My name is Ohiam's
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here and I'm here today with Dancy
Brook. See how our operatics. Are
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You doing today? That yeah,
very good. Thank you. Oh good,
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how are you? Yeah, not
too bad. Not Too bad.
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I think we sh your very well
Christmas party last Friday, which is good.
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We know edding up towards the end
of the year, so it is
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very exciting planning for two thousand and
twenty two. So I'm not not complaining,
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loving it at the moment. And
today we will be speaking about just
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a party for the people who are
hitting. Are Just lost all my Microsoft
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so I don't have the word document
in front of me anymore. You may
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come up at some time, but
today we will be speaking about how to
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budget for as yeah, which I
think is a is kind of an interesting
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topic tyfinitely something has been evolving over
the last few years and and that's kind
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of my first question for you.
Then you know, I'll do you think
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the role off his DA and the
cost of is yeah, as evolved over
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the last few years. So I
think that's a few factors. From my
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perspective, one of the most important
factors to consider the last few years is
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probably the increase in the appreciation as
to how important and your function is within
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a business and it actually being considered
much more of a stand alone strategic function
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than it was once was. But
I think if you cost a mind back
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a few years ago, it is
very much just considered an entry point in
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two sales with people desperate to become
can't exacts or go into other roles as
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soon as possible, whereas now,
I think being a kind of world class
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str has considered a good career in
its own right and actually the str function
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being considered a strategic function in its
own right. And now in a lot
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of businesses, from what I see, it's it's actual a stand alone function,
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not necessarily just part of sales or
just part of marketing. It's actually
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a stand alone strategic function. So
with that kind of increase in in the
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importance of the role of the at
least how important it is being considered,
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certainly that's obviously increased what the top
strs can command from a salary perspective.
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I mean the other element is is
the competition out there. So there's,
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I think you know, there's thousands
of unfilled str and aid positions today in
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the SASS market, on the software
market and nactually that's obviously created that that
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typical SIPPAL and demand issue for companies, and so that's pushing salaries up and
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and their way bigger than they were
just a few years ago. And then,
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of course the other element to consider
is inflation, which is running at
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a pretty steep amount in both UK
and US. I think in the UKs
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north of six percent. In the
UK it's around for four point two,
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four point three percent. So that's
having a massive knock on impact on what
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companies are having to pay stoff.
And then, I know the other element
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is just finally, is the pressure
that covid created on pipeline generation. So
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historically marketing team sells teams have had
all of these different kind of functions that
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they've been able to utilize to build
quipeline events, in person activities, digital
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marketing activities, you know, other
account based marketing elements. And then now
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really one of the key sources to
market, or key roots market, I
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should say, more so than Everest, is around an str team, because
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it's something that's been able to be
Brazilian and robust despite the different changing landscape
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of of business, with with the
impact of Covid and I think that's increased
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the popularity and increase of strategic importance
of str teams in general and therefore just
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it pushed the costs up of having
a team in house or indeed outsting that,
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Ye know, I've seen that does
where completely a group is. Yeah,
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I think on top of that there
is all that mixed up together with
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a with a massive dose of urgency, because I think what we saw or
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the course of covied is organization that
probably had to reduce a target market by
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thirty percent, you know, when
you remove all the traveling companies, when
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you removed rtel chains and everything was
struggling. Of all the course of Fur,
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of all the course of of Covid
Nain team. That would mean that
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we had less I comes to go
after or less it comes to go after,
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so less medium to go after us
and I think a big one for
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customer. I was read the events. Even for us, you know,
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as a as a certain marketing team, events have always been very good to
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us and when you don't have dose
events anymore, you're missing. I don't
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know, I don't normally leads you
you are losing, but probably a big
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part of your strategy. But all
that mixed up with a tremendous amount of
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urgency because we need to we need
to make the targets that maybe we could
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not be less sure. I have
personally seen cost offer his. The are
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going through the roof like a the
actual custofer resource. I don't know what
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your views on that, but I
think a probably see that costs evolving by
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at least, if it's not thirty
five person at least thirty percent in the
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last couple of years. And I
think not only the costs increase, but
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I think the standout that people are
requesting for the dsdal is also dropping down
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a light. In the US,
people would have, like people who just
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come out of university now, if
not going to school, that's fine.
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You can still be an estimatim in
fact, no education at all still work.
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What are you also sometimes you do
you agree with a statement or do
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you think it's a you have a
different view? Well, yeah, absolutely.
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I mean I think if you look
at some of the some of the
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roads out there from an sure perspective, they're probably from from a salary and
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at perspective matching what you would be
in paid. Is like a an SMBA
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or mid market account exactive two,
three years ago. For sure, they're
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climbing up and and the interesting thing
is, to your point, in our
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case working is now so organized and
where clients may a certain point in time
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want to recruit people directly from us, they may be recruiting someone that one
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year ago was working in an environment
definitely not aligned with their high growth software
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company, and then, you know, on a lot less money in today
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they're plucking them and probably paying them
for four five times or they would have
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been paid a year ago. And
yes, they've obviously learned a certain amount
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and they've up skilled themselves certain amount
in that period of time that that they're
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in their last job to going into
the next one. But I mean it's
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not the same as having, take
three, five, seven years business experience
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where they've developed themselves, you know, and their commercial lacking in so I
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completely agree. It's a the other
challenge, of course, is the incredible
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amount of funding and to your point
around urgency, when you see that the
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funding has quadrupled in the last year
and, you know, multiplied by five
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times in the last two years,
then was it was its six billion in
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just the data from crunch base was
probably a very, very, very top
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of different number. Did we did
we look at six million in twenty twenty
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of startups receiving investment to twenty one
million this year. That's right. What
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billion? Yeah, so fur fell. Four billion in two thousand and nineteen,
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five billion in two thousand and twenty
and twenty one billion in two thousand
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and twenty one. So mean,
naturally they're just an incredible amount of pressure
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coming from the market, from BCS
to accelerate growth as quickly as possible.
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And and it's not just at the
amount of funding, its the size of
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these funding around. So there's certain
companies out there taking five hundred million or
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a billion dollars of funding in a
series be of seriously, they just have
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more money. It's as simple as
that. They just have more money to
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throw a growth. I'm not sure
it would probably align with the most sensible
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business practice in some instances as to
how to grow, but I mean the
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money's in the bank, so then
they need to do it right and it's
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you know, the feedback we get
from our clients, I think points towards
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and as six, not not just
growth but the speed of growth. It's
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not just it's not good enough to
grow, but doing it over ten years.
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You've got to do in two years. So you know, I mean
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that condensing a hell of a lot
of funding into a two year period to
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spend it means that they're just throwing
money around us as much as possible and
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obviously that trickled down into all of
the different sales roles and str roles that
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are out there. And then the
other pressure of not being they're not being
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enough talented people out there, which
is what I think brings a whole nother
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arguments the table, which is about
diversity. So actually not just hiring people
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with your typical technology sales background,
but hiring people from other diverse backgrounds that
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you can potentially take. You know
someone that was working in hospitality a year
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ago that have now lost that drop
because of coving could actually be perfect for
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an str role and I actually,
you know, in a year or two
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be on a lot of money compared
to what they would have been in hospitality.
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Now. I was working in the
cooke tail bar before before taking they
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first may feels bit like the song. So that's that's true, Bin Interesting.
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So on one side, if we
look at it from the vendor perspective,
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lots of funding, not only for
yourself but for other people around you.
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So obviously everybody's running after growing war
for talents made the asdr dl a's
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sees and all that. Everybody is
recruiting. Nobody's got to sensetive big enough.
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So the salary goes up, the
cost of salary goes up. What
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were your perspective on the actual response
to the market? Because with more and
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more companies, I mean more and
more technology companies to start with, I
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felt, I think, there is
an increasing time of the number of start
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up every year. There is obviously
with that the increasing time of the investment
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going to start up company. With
that there is an increasing time of volume
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of his Dr Globally and I think
the volume of is your globally is increasing.
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You're on are what's the response of
the market? Was the response of
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prospect do you think is still easier
than eyear to get through the folks,
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through the through the noise and still
get that vital meeting for your account manager
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and all that proof of value or
that they more set up for your accop
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manager, or do you think is
becoming more difficult than ever? Well,
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an, there's a couple of things
and if you look back a few years
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ago and even much longer than when
I started my career, obviously there was
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the one side offense. It was
easier because you were not competing with as
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many organizations and as many other rest
yours as you are today, and so
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when you could find them reach the
right prospects, you are probably having a
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better conversation, not only because there's
less competition but also because they were less
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educated. Today's buyers are so educated
that they know more about your solution before
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you even the new do by the
time that you engage them. There was
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that element which was easier. The
thing that made it harder than a few
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years ago and much longer than that
was the lack of tools and data and
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inside that you've got today. So
of course, if you fast forward to
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today, there as much more competition, for sure in terms of STRs,
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number of vendors, number about sources
to our companies and all that. There's
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definitely more competition. But then on
the other side of it, there are
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a lot of a lot more tools
to make your life easier, and I
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think there are more tools around intend
data, that more tooled around data itself,
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around sales automation, around cool it
intelligence, called coaching software, although
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different types of technologies and data platforms
that can make an s your life easier.
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So yes, it can be more
difficult to stand out from the crowd,
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but you've got more tools that you're
disposal to allot to support you to
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do that. I think generally speaking, what we see, what we've seen,
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is we've probably seen a steady,
certainly not an aggressive but a slight
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decline probably in productivity per efty.
But the difference is, I would say,
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that the value of that meeting,
when a meeting is it's delivered to
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her an AE, is higher and
therefore often it's a better conversation and often
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the conversion rate from meeting to opportunity
goes up because I think whenever when a
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buyer is taking a meeting it's a
more serious meeting and perhaps it would have
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been ten, five, ten fifteen
years when they were less educated about the
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prospect and it was much more education. So I think it's a changing landscape.
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I think there's less probably educational meetings
and much more quality when when when
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sitting in front of her prospect they
you raise a very good point. So
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cost of just the air goes up. It's probably a bit more difficult to
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get the results. So technically,
your cusper lead, your cusper demo,
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your cusper proof of concept, your
cospel opportunity or cosper deal close is increasing.
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Okay, but you raise a good
point around the technology, right,
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and I think this is very important. When we budget for as Dr Bda
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sometimes we made the silly mistake of
just looking at the individual. Right,
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but you've got to manage the individual. The individual probably in more tools more
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than ever right now, and I
think you mentioned a few of them.
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So sends automation, Potentially Marketing Automation, but marketing automation is probably not the
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cause that you would associate with Vida, more with marketing activities. So sells
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automation, conversational intelligence, to the
lack of going refract chorus sends love to
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all those guys. Obviously, probably
Linkedin as well. I think linkedin sells
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that degator is a big one.
Yeah, and then you all the data
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stuff. So data could be seem
less, could be zooming for could be
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six sens could be Lusha, all
those tool that are giving you access to
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the data. You know roughly and
on average, you know how much would
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you seem need? That's monstly because
because when you had them all together they
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must have at this we were probably
talking about that list. And as are
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five sound five hundred to a thousand
dollars with a foot on top of the
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custom yet true person? Yeah,
I would imagine so. I mean,
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I think the thing is it will
depend on the size of the organization as
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well as in the STR team itself, because of course, if you're buying
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all of those solutions and you have
a manager over you only have two strs,
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then you're the cost of all of
those tools and the management of though
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people are going to be relatively high. I think you spread it over a
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slightly larger team, it starts to
make more sense. Generally speaking, I
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think a rule of thumb I've kind
of heard and it sounds sensible to me,
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is that probably when you have a
team of five to six SDRS,
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it can start to make sense to
look at bring that in house. Below
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that it can start to be relatively
expensive to have that in the house.
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When you look right across the whole
kind of life cycle of having an str
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you have to start with the with
the recruitment, the cost of recruitment.
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That whether you have that recruiter in
how to use an agency, there's some
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there is some cost along the lines. Then there's the enablement of that person,
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whether you have a training person or
enablement person. That's going to be
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a searching cost. Then the other
element to consider is that they're not going
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to be productive day one. It
might take them three to six months and
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I think that process is elongating,
to be honest, not shortening in terms
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of the timeline to get that person
successful. So in that first three months
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you're certainly not going to make the
profit or the RII that you're expecting to
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make on that individual. But is
it when they've been doing the job for
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a one year period and then of
course, to make that person successful.
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To your point, you have all
of those tools. And then something that's
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often overlooked is if you have a
management a manager I should say, you
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need to spread that management cost over
the team that you have in place.
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But if you don't have a manager, someone's got to manage them. So
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then you must be thinking, well, it's a crow or BEPF sales who's
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done a pretty good salary, spreading
their costs across that team as well and
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the time associated with doing so.
So and of course you have to then
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deal with churn, which is an
str wants to be promoted probably after six
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months twelve months of good performance.
They want to come in a and it
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must be one of the highest churning
roles within a sales environment, just because
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it's entry level people that you're often
not able to qualify that if they are
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really cut out for that role or
not. And so you have a slightly
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higher channeing you'd expect in any other
part of the business and there's a cost
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that you've got you've got to attach
to that. So I think when you
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build it all in, it's probably
another thirty, two fifty percent on top
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of just that that raw salary,
the gross cellery. I think there's a
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considerable amount more cost on top of
that. And Yeah, I think,
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you know, a thousand pounds or
a thousand dollars is probably on the very
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low end when you consider the churn
and the cost of recruitment and the cost
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of management and all of that.
Yeah, that's next. That makes perfect
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sense. Do Qush out the worst? I'm probably being as a question literally
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every week. Why should I outsource? It seems to be shipped by faiths
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or sit's. I've got my own
started. That's one that I'd like to
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a'd like to your your spost and
then, if it's not the same old
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come up was made. But you
know what's so on sort of the what?
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What do you think is the benefit
of insourcing? Thus alsocing, and
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of course will be by us because
we work for prietings in we are sells.
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I'll Sare so, but you know
what would be of your ownest pure
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opinion on that matter. So naturally
that aren'to varies from companies company depending on
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their context. But if you just
think about it in a very kind of
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black and white fashion, all of
our plans to be top technology companies right
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and they're their speciality is is manufacturing, creating, developing and selling software,
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but there their expertise typically is not
in creating demand for that software or that
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technology. They do have some smart
people in the business are able to do
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so, but actually being able to
develop and scare the make success for the
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NESTYR team probably one of the hardest
things to do, primarily because of the
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profile of person. You're normally having
someone that's at the more junior end of
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their career and, of course,
all also it's actually one of the most
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intricate roles out there right now.
I think when you look at the key
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value in today's market of an outsort
of company versus doing it in house,
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there's a few things. I think
the skill shortage and and the lack of
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available talent is a massive thing,
because if you went to think today is
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day one you want to build up
a nest your team, you're going to
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find it really have to find the
right people are on board, the right
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people, and then it's going to
take you a long time to get them.
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Success will probably three to six months. The value of an outsourced test
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our companies that we have the people. Today we have the best practice.
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We have the management infrastructure, we
have the tools. That data are the
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insights, the birds I view across
all of our other clients to know what's
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making them successful and not successful,
and we can apply that logic and that
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intelligence and that experience to a new
client and get them off the ground much
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more quickly. Now, that's not
saying that we're magicians, but we have
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all of those different elements in place
today. That other that if you're building
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that team from scratch today, you
wouldn't have. So I think what it
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comes down to is the speed and
the scale and the experience. And then
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the other element, of course,
is when you're building up a team,
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you've got to make a decision.
Do you want to build that team and
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do the US or do you want
to build that team and do Europe?
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And from a business such as us, we have the ability to bring that
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scale globally from one organization. They're
not only do you benefit from all of
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those elements I just spoke about,
you can do that a global scale,
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and that's something that's quite difficult to
do if you have to hire full time
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equivalence in a particular region at any
particular time and then I think the other
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element is the ability to test the
market before you know that you absolutely need
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an str or before you know exactly
what you're needing an str for. So
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if you look at what we do
for a lot of earlier stage companies is
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that we're almost like a market research
organization and that, yes, we deliver
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a meeting to the prospect and to
the client, I should say, but
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what what we're also doing is a
lot of validation and testing of the message
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to understand what's really resonating and not. Then we can pass that back to
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our client and once they feel that
they've got actually a really well defined,
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well written, clear, concise playbook
around the messaging, is at that point
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in time when they built up enough
demand that they may make sense to start
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transitioning that functioning house. One of
the clear benefits of having that function in
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house of courses, if you've got
that bottom layer of talent, that is
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a talent pool to fuel your aids
of the future. So that is an
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element to consider. Then that's something
else that we often will deliver to our
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clients as well in the form of
a conveyor out of talent, which is
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we can work together for a period
of time, one year, two year,
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three years, and then at a
certain point of in the future they
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may actually want to recruit that person
from operatics, for you know, at
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a pre agreed ray to pretty group
price and recruitment structure that we have.
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But ultimately it allows them to once
they understand the market, once they understand
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that sale process, once they have
an SDR team built up, it's much
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safer better then go down and go
down the route of actually hiring and building
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that team in house. So I
think a few different elements. Naturally that
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will change from clime to crime and
you can get into the weeks of where
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they're doing in bound versus outbound and
all of that. But at a very
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high level, I think at in
today's world it comes down to the speed
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and scale and efficiency of having a
team outsource versus actually can having the opportunity
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to go in house. Yeah,
yeah, use some way. I mean
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the last time I was, as
the question is, someone I actually knew
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and did some business within the past, was with with someone else on that
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in that was a bit like new
to the concept of outsourcing and the way
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also the question is to look at
you very smart I'm sure you're going to
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work it out. If you want
to do it on your own, you
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can do it, you know.
But the question is, do you have
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six months, you have nine months, or do you want to get it
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done now? You know we can
get it that now. We will be
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a little bit more expensive probablydden building
your own team. In fact, I
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think that could be debatable because you've
got a good point of turn over in
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the team and repreating people and things
like that. There is lots of from
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cost, but usually speedies is of
the essence. I think if she if
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you don't have time, it's very
difficult to do it in house or almost
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risky because if you make a mistaken
you know you've got to do a change
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in the team or or you've got
to see people coming and going from that
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team. They can really set you
back. But yeah, I think I
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agree with you. I think time
is the most is the most important element
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in the Indians. Or to that
question now, I'll do you evaluate the
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number of videas there is in your
team? Right, so I'm a startups.
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I've got my target for next year. I've got a bit of thin
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bound I've got a bit, you
know, need to do a bit of
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Holt Bounds. Don't it five and
six, when it ten? What was
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the way to was the way to
evaluate the mean? Yes, the Avidea
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you need in your team. You
know, the one of the most obvious
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places to start is is understanding what
amount of revenue you want to generate from
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that particular part of Your Business.
So you know, if you take a
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total topline target, you're going to
have different areas where that pipeline is going
339
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to come from, that revenue's going
to come from. Some of it's going
340
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to be marketing, some of it's
going to be from the A, some
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of it's going to be from channel
partners, some some of it's going to
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be, you know, introductions by
board members and be season all of that.
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And there's some of it's going to
come from from a, the str
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function. Now often a rule of
thumb used is that for an a maybe
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a third of their target should come
from strs, a third coming from in
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bound, a third coming from themselves
or, you know, a third from
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marketing, which may include strs,
a third from themselves, a third from
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channel partner. So there's normally a
third of third of third rule somewhere in
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there for an ae to do their
number. The reality is, I think,
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when you look at understanding how many
SDRs dire actually need your business,
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it needs to start with how much
pipeline revenue you want to generate on a
352
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quarterly or annual base. It from
that str group and then understanding, you
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know, some of the the kind
of saled funnel that contributes towards that in
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terms of how many deals do you
need to actually execute in order to get
355
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to your revenue objective? What is
your average deal size from opportunity to close
356
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one? What's your conversion rate from
meeting to opportunity, from and even coming
357
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back from further than that, from
mql to meeting and all that? Now
358
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the other element to considers. It's
not just about in the early stage of
359
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the business, it's not just about
the revenue, because I think a big
360
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and often overlooked part is is around
understanding the market. So a lot of
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our clients will often take more strs
than they need in some instances because they
362
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want to yes, be getting more, more opportunities at the table, but
363
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they also want to to understand more
about the market more quickly, because most
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of our plants are operating in extremely
high growth markets. Where they want to
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go and you know, have a
rep in the US, are reper in
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France or rep in the UK or
up in the audits, whatever, and
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really get market feedback very quickly at
the same time as having sales conversations,
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and in a lot of instances it
almost becomes as valuable as probably a deal,
369
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because it can influence their message in
their marketing, their product road map
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and all of that. I think
you know. But coming back to your
371
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point, the most obvious place to
start as understanding what pipeline in revenue you
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need to generate and working back from
that and then, of course, understanding
373
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how much you need to focus on
in bound versus outband. But I don't
374
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think there's a one side fits all
answer there, just because of the amount
375
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of market validation or market research you
may actually want to do for your sluice.
376
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Yeah, I would. What do
you think of that? I think
377
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he's a tough cushion to on stage, folk quare. Ask It to be
378
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asked it to you, just just
a cutu would say to be this was
379
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your would. You're right, he
can be like so very we've got some
380
00:24:25.809 --> 00:24:29.529
clients, so I that tost an
some clients. This show will and we've
381
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got to be mindful of that as
well. So kind of going slightly on
382
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the side of the on somewhere.
I will get to young S, but
383
00:24:36.130 --> 00:24:40.000
you mentioned of a few daming that
in the composition in Bundas without bound I
384
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:42.519
think this is such an important,
important topick as well. At the moment
385
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we've had many clients that have struggled
to generate the right level of in bounds
386
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to sustain that growth or the growth
that is expected from them. Okay,
387
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but unfortunately or fortunately for them,
they have been able to up to a
388
00:24:59.630 --> 00:25:03.309
certain point they've been able to sustain
their growth, and quite a quick growth,
389
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quite a high growth, with in
bounds. Okay, but comes a
390
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points where in bound is not sufficiency. Need to turn to outbound, and
391
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I think it's usually when I've seen
people saying, okay, we need to
392
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adksolse that, we need to adksource
that, because in bound is okay,
393
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I'm selling. If I'm selling,
I don't know, an electric car or
394
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TV, you're going to speak to
people, just come to you and say
395
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as the consumption for long, can
I go with it? Or if it's
396
00:25:27.650 --> 00:25:32.529
a TV, is it was a
different between Plasma Orl the know approximatively what
397
00:25:32.930 --> 00:25:36.079
type of TV they want. They've
already done a bit of shopping around.
398
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:38.960
So you can go straight into something
a little bit more product lad you can
399
00:25:40.039 --> 00:25:42.559
go straight into the stuff that you
can learn by art, if you will.
400
00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:45.960
Okay, don't not think that.
You you need to kind of create
401
00:25:47.079 --> 00:25:49.829
on the spots, etc. Etc. I think the art of prospecting and
402
00:25:49.950 --> 00:25:56.230
outbound prospecting is really around being relevant
and pertinant to the people you are targeting,
403
00:25:56.950 --> 00:26:00.029
and that start about understanding your product. It's a bottomder something Indians user,
404
00:26:00.230 --> 00:26:06.059
it's a bottom the something. What's
that? Title's their company and based
405
00:26:06.099 --> 00:26:08.940
on the vertical or the industry they
work in and the title of the individual
406
00:26:10.259 --> 00:26:12.940
they are paying points, their issues
will be different and you need to adapt
407
00:26:12.980 --> 00:26:17.339
to that. And then you need
to have the value point behind of saying,
408
00:26:17.420 --> 00:26:19.609
Hey, if we work with individual
like you, this is how much
409
00:26:19.690 --> 00:26:22.490
we can say, how much more
efficiency we can bring, and this is
410
00:26:22.529 --> 00:26:26.930
what you would mean from a monetary
perspective. Does that make sense to you?
411
00:26:26.970 --> 00:26:30.970
Yes or low? And I think
this is what we've seen companies struggling
412
00:26:30.970 --> 00:26:36.400
in doing internally because they get probably
the get that cells team brainwashed with product,
413
00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:38.279
product, product. You go to
a kick off his product, product,
414
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:41.880
when what you should do is to
actually completely step back from the product,
415
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:45.000
look at it from the balcony and
look at your prospectency. Okay,
416
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:48.950
what are they doing? How can
I be personals in that context? And
417
00:26:49.029 --> 00:26:52.750
I think that's very, very difficult
to do if you come sit on the
418
00:26:52.789 --> 00:26:57.190
balcony because you're you're the Bulcon if
you just got your products and you mentioned
419
00:26:57.269 --> 00:27:00.190
something early on, which is,
I think, that bird I view and
420
00:27:00.309 --> 00:27:06.099
nothin. That's a massive advantage for
companies like us because we can see what's
421
00:27:06.140 --> 00:27:11.180
going on. We are defying we
always in particularly over the course of Covid
422
00:27:11.259 --> 00:27:15.250
nineteen and even see even now,
we've been adapting the way we operate.
423
00:27:15.690 --> 00:27:18.690
I think the methodology is pretty much
the same, but the medium we've been
424
00:27:18.690 --> 00:27:22.730
using have changed. The phone was
not workings, we had to move to
425
00:27:22.809 --> 00:27:25.849
Linkedin and then people got bother of
Linkedin, so we had to move to
426
00:27:25.930 --> 00:27:30.039
something else. And it's always moving
and that medium is always moving and it's
427
00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:34.039
about how quickly do you move,
how quickly do you know about what's working
428
00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:37.839
was not working, and I'll quickly
do you adapt technically. It's almost like
429
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:41.480
the evolution theory of evolution. I
think you you can move on much more
430
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:45.789
quicker in that space if you really
have that knowledge, if you really have
431
00:27:45.910 --> 00:27:48.990
that intelligence. So coming back to
your point about how do you esteem makes
432
00:27:49.029 --> 00:27:52.230
you know the out budget for your
team, I think if you was me
433
00:27:52.829 --> 00:27:56.670
and I look at most of our
clients and I had to do a rule
434
00:27:56.750 --> 00:28:03.180
of average, I think I would
split my team between insource and outsource.
435
00:28:03.500 --> 00:28:07.900
Personally, which I think is probably
what ninety five percent of our clients are
436
00:28:07.940 --> 00:28:11.970
doing anyway, I would probably keep
the inbound internally because I know I can
437
00:28:12.049 --> 00:28:17.170
get my guys doing the product inside
out and I can move those people to
438
00:28:17.289 --> 00:28:19.609
a position and stuff like that,
because he is really what you know you
439
00:28:19.690 --> 00:28:23.210
would want to do. A potentially
even says, but I can get them
440
00:28:23.289 --> 00:28:26.480
to ruin other products sell the product, being able to do them on the
441
00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:30.400
product, do a little bit more
on the cell cycle, but they're already
442
00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:34.079
speaking to someone who's interested. Right, however, for the practive party,
443
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:37.160
is something that without source, okay, so the world would go about it.
444
00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:41.109
It's okay, this is how many
Mquers, how many leads? I'm
445
00:28:41.150 --> 00:28:44.750
expecting to get from my marketing team
next year. So I'll go to my
446
00:28:44.829 --> 00:28:47.950
marketing folks and say, okay,
guys, what's your commitment? was going
447
00:28:47.990 --> 00:28:51.630
to be a contribution to seens or
you gotta have that Mani. Okay.
448
00:28:51.869 --> 00:28:53.549
So I will do some math and
say, I don't know, I need
449
00:28:53.670 --> 00:28:57.420
a hundred and fifty m to hours
or two hundred and quel spare amounts in
450
00:28:57.539 --> 00:29:02.500
order to make one person, one
full time equivalent, fully busy. Okay.
451
00:29:02.980 --> 00:29:06.779
So if I've got three hundred permounds, that's two people in my insight
452
00:29:06.859 --> 00:29:10.049
team, in my in my inbound
team, in bound response, pennagement team.
453
00:29:10.609 --> 00:29:12.369
And I will go to my crro
and say hey, okay, so
454
00:29:12.490 --> 00:29:15.970
you have marketing that will contribute thirty
percent of your of your target for next
455
00:29:15.970 --> 00:29:19.250
year, Whatever Mang R it is. I'm expecting you to do some upset
456
00:29:19.329 --> 00:29:22.730
and cross them to some existing customers. So was that number. And that's
457
00:29:22.809 --> 00:29:26.519
basically what will come from the a's
without, you know, any support from
458
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:30.119
from outside. I would also expect
the as to do a bit of the
459
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:33.400
work themselves. So I will expect
them to go and cry down L so
460
00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:37.599
I would ask my cro what I
would look like and I will be left
461
00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:40.950
with a gap. Okay, and
let's say that gap, for the purpose
462
00:29:41.029 --> 00:29:44.990
of the conversation, is as a
million dollar. Right, I've got a
463
00:29:45.069 --> 00:29:48.430
million dollar to do. Next question
is to look in my crm system.
464
00:29:48.829 --> 00:29:52.430
Look how many deals we close last
year. What was a total booking value?
465
00:29:52.940 --> 00:29:56.539
Do the division. That will give
you my average deal value. Let's
466
00:29:56.539 --> 00:29:59.220
say my average value is on Dreid
K. I'm not really good at bath
467
00:29:59.299 --> 00:30:02.619
so I'm going to use some very, very simple Mathia. If I've got
468
00:30:02.660 --> 00:30:04.819
to do a million and I've got
an undred caverage deal value, I need
469
00:30:04.900 --> 00:30:08.609
to press tend gams. Okay,
and I will go through the classic of
470
00:30:08.769 --> 00:30:12.690
again going in the CRM system and
say, okay, we've got we've got
471
00:30:12.769 --> 00:30:17.329
a twenty personal closing rate from opportunity
to close. So in a lot to
472
00:30:17.410 --> 00:30:22.039
close ten deals, I need to
a fifteen opportunities. Okay, and then
473
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:23.880
I will just go out to the
market and speak to a few hours or
474
00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:27.000
so and say, look, what
our level of activity do you need to
475
00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:32.279
put in in order to create those
fifty opportunities? For me, now what
476
00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:34.869
I need is fifty opportunities. The
last thing that I would take into consideration
477
00:30:34.990 --> 00:30:38.309
is the length of my cell cycle. So if I want to be concerned
478
00:30:38.390 --> 00:30:42.950
with that hundred K averaged in value
or Aarr, I would say that my
479
00:30:44.349 --> 00:30:48.509
cell cycle is probably six months,
nine months Max. Maybe in some places
480
00:30:48.549 --> 00:30:51.619
in Europe or there is a bit
more of a consensus with lots of prospect
481
00:30:51.619 --> 00:30:56.099
getting together, but let's say six
months. So technically, for another when
482
00:30:56.099 --> 00:31:00.180
I we know we are in December, mid December, I've got six months
483
00:31:00.259 --> 00:31:03.369
and a half to go and get
those fifty opportunities. Anything that will get
484
00:31:03.410 --> 00:31:08.769
after you know, July will technically
could be a twenty, twenty three opportunity.
485
00:31:10.170 --> 00:31:12.210
Okay, unless I'm lucky and I
managed to close them quicker. Right,
486
00:31:12.769 --> 00:31:17.329
and then, based on that I
will try to get partners that give
487
00:31:17.369 --> 00:31:21.480
me different pricing as to what you
would look like. So that that's how
488
00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:22.759
I would go about it. I
think you you're writing the center. There
489
00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:26.279
is is a bit of a tricky
question because there is no rule of so
490
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:29.279
it depends where you add and and
and again. I know that we've got
491
00:31:29.359 --> 00:31:33.470
lots of startups, founders and and
start up employees listening to the podcast and
492
00:31:33.950 --> 00:31:37.589
often you don't add that data.
You know, if you've been going for
493
00:31:37.829 --> 00:31:41.029
one yeah, you're going to a
new territory. You don't know what you're
494
00:31:41.069 --> 00:31:42.750
closing right is, you don't really
know what your average deal value is.
495
00:31:42.869 --> 00:31:47.700
So sometimes it's a little bit more
of it's a little bit more of an
496
00:31:47.740 --> 00:31:51.140
experiment. But I think the sort
process should be along this line. Short
497
00:31:51.180 --> 00:31:53.940
process, the soap process should be
straight for worlds, based on what I
498
00:31:53.980 --> 00:31:56.500
can get from marketing, what I
can get from myself s team, what
499
00:31:56.579 --> 00:32:00.059
I would expect to get from some
of the people and really set up some
500
00:32:00.890 --> 00:32:07.369
type of working relationship with whoever outsource
partner I would use, or even if
501
00:32:07.369 --> 00:32:09.329
I was to do it myself,
in terms of bring the team internally,
502
00:32:09.849 --> 00:32:15.009
but setting up some rollers to not
just a number of meetings. We need
503
00:32:15.049 --> 00:32:17.200
to get our number of them,
all we need to do, but more
504
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:22.039
like the the qualitative stuff. So
you know also we having good conversation and
505
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:25.079
stuff like that, because I think
one of the that's a subject that you
506
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:29.400
and I discuss at length, but
I think when we when we tend to
507
00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:32.829
budget, we just look at our
numbers, but our numbers often don't give
508
00:32:32.829 --> 00:32:36.869
you. Don't give you the reality
of what you need to do. is
509
00:32:36.950 --> 00:32:38.910
not the qualitative stuff. The quality
stuff is. Actually how many good,
510
00:32:39.069 --> 00:32:44.230
meaningful conversation are you having with prospect
how many people are saying no to you?
511
00:32:44.339 --> 00:32:46.339
Why are the sake no? Because
the noise as valuable as a yes.
512
00:32:46.900 --> 00:32:50.819
But sometimes we cannot forget about that
because again, we are in the
513
00:32:50.900 --> 00:32:54.740
oar gen versus the important. So
I would really I would really try to
514
00:32:54.779 --> 00:32:59.769
look at all that together. But
again, coming back to the bottom,
515
00:33:00.289 --> 00:33:04.890
it's simple math, looking at the
different sources of my needs. Looking at
516
00:33:04.970 --> 00:33:08.369
rough conversion rate, is a from
historical data or thing that I can extrapolate
517
00:33:08.450 --> 00:33:13.240
from plastic spients and, you know, kind of flow off averages and a
518
00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:15.359
bit of a feeling, if you
will, and then decide what I want
519
00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:17.759
to in solve. That's result source. There is start that I can keep
520
00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:21.960
close to my chest, because it's
maybe the year I don't need someone to
521
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:25.079
tell me on my product work.
Technically, however, if I go to
522
00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:30.109
a new market and I don't know
which companies to go after exactly, I'm
523
00:33:30.109 --> 00:33:32.470
not hundred personal shop, but the
ICP or the person I should target.
524
00:33:32.829 --> 00:33:36.829
I'm not on hundred personal shore,
but the Shue are facing an outo position
525
00:33:36.910 --> 00:33:39.549
my product. I would definitely go
for someone has got experience in that field
526
00:33:39.630 --> 00:33:44.220
and try to try to save.
Sometimes that's how go about it. To
527
00:33:44.299 --> 00:33:46.019
say, so much done for sharing
your insight. I was super useful today.
528
00:33:46.140 --> 00:33:49.660
We see we we kind of speak
on a daily basis. So,
529
00:33:49.819 --> 00:33:52.779
you know, hopefully be a much
more, much more value for Jin and
530
00:33:52.859 --> 00:33:57.130
he was for me, because another
kind of leave those topics on the daily
531
00:33:57.170 --> 00:34:00.849
basis. But if anyone wants to
get in touch with you, always operatics,
532
00:34:00.849 --> 00:34:06.210
which we would tremendously encourage for one
obvious reason. What was the bestly
533
00:34:06.329 --> 00:34:07.650
to get to get in touch with
you then? And so I think,
534
00:34:08.369 --> 00:34:12.159
as ever roll always says, I
think probably the best way is linkedin.
535
00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:16.039
For me, Damn Saeb on,
Linkedin the company or protects donet is the
536
00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:20.480
best place. The inquiry will be
picked up within about one minute by the
537
00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:23.710
sales team. So so I think
I againyone to get it touched by a
538
00:34:23.829 --> 00:34:28.190
probably the best two places. And
one last thing maybe before you go,
539
00:34:28.429 --> 00:34:31.469
because we we did something a little
bit new this year with with pavilion,
540
00:34:31.630 --> 00:34:37.030
which was a family revenue collective.
We publish a study with them. You
541
00:34:37.110 --> 00:34:38.340
want to take a minute or two
just to just to go through that,
542
00:34:38.420 --> 00:34:43.860
because I think it's a great resource
for people who are budgeting looking at this
543
00:34:43.900 --> 00:34:47.860
Dr Bid are trying to figure out
cost trying to figure asked what should be
544
00:34:47.900 --> 00:34:52.460
the productivity. I mean it's quite
a big report, but could you just
545
00:34:52.579 --> 00:34:55.010
think of a few moments just to
take us through that and and maybe to
546
00:34:55.050 --> 00:34:58.769
Argents? But they can get it, so they so we can. We
547
00:34:59.449 --> 00:35:02.690
can see and with absolutely will.
Firstly, I must that's a that's not
548
00:35:02.769 --> 00:35:07.599
a bad time to me to show
this. Then if you can see that,
549
00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:09.599
I got this through my through my
door today. It's some sort of
550
00:35:09.639 --> 00:35:15.000
a package from pavilion with with the
with a note at and all of that.
551
00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:16.400
So I mean, that's that's very
good. I guess that's what you
552
00:35:16.519 --> 00:35:20.239
get. If you remember. Yes, so the report that we did,
553
00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:22.829
I think it was called the state
of self development, and basically it's a
554
00:35:22.150 --> 00:35:27.949
kind of code branded report between US
and pavilion that both parties worked on to
555
00:35:28.469 --> 00:35:31.710
spend a lot of time on,
you know, doing some research, identified
556
00:35:31.789 --> 00:35:37.619
pattern and collecting data to do some
analysis on to understand what's actually going on
557
00:35:37.780 --> 00:35:40.500
within the world of self development.
And that go from where pretty much covers
558
00:35:40.500 --> 00:35:46.500
all areas, from different technology stacks
through to productivity pert or perst are.
559
00:35:47.219 --> 00:35:52.409
You know what type of salaries they
should be getting paid. Well, seeing
560
00:35:52.449 --> 00:35:57.090
different types of success in different regions, in bound usus outbound lead flows,
561
00:35:57.369 --> 00:36:00.250
how much it each str is actually
able to handle, and I think for
562
00:36:00.369 --> 00:36:04.090
us, again, we know a
lot of that data just through conversations and
563
00:36:04.250 --> 00:36:07.400
dealing with it every single day.
But we saw a lot of interest when
564
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:10.440
we've been when we've been releasing that
report. So I think, for example,
565
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:15.480
on my linkedin there was, you
know, over on fifteen hundred votes
566
00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:20.190
when you know around one of the
particular questions, and I think the question
567
00:36:20.309 --> 00:36:24.429
was related to how many strs should
be aligned to each a, and I
568
00:36:24.550 --> 00:36:29.349
know that's obviously created a lot of
debate. We've had hundreds of downloads and
569
00:36:29.590 --> 00:36:32.739
and we're definitely not using that as
a sales tactic. It's really an information
570
00:36:34.219 --> 00:36:36.739
provision, to be honest. We're
giving that out to the market and a
571
00:36:36.780 --> 00:36:38.139
lot of people seem to be getting
a lot of good use out of it.
572
00:36:38.739 --> 00:36:43.579
We have had some conversations off the
back of it where they're very consolative,
573
00:36:43.659 --> 00:36:46.489
where we're just having conversations with people
and they're asking our opinions about different
574
00:36:46.530 --> 00:36:51.570
elements to do with the str roll
and world and more than happy to keep
575
00:36:51.570 --> 00:36:54.570
doing that. But I think it's
it's definitely a report work downloading. It's
576
00:36:54.650 --> 00:36:59.610
like thirteen pages, so it's not
light that time reading, but it's worth,
577
00:36:59.929 --> 00:37:01.159
you know, maybe using it more
like a manual to go back to
578
00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:06.280
if you just have any questions or
concerns to if it as to whether you're
579
00:37:06.280 --> 00:37:07.800
doing the right thing or not from
last time. Yeah, it's starts of
580
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:12.960
graph so it's it's a good squad. They just but it's available on our
581
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:16.429
websites, I bel if. Yeah, absolutely available on our website and and
582
00:37:17.630 --> 00:37:21.110
if you can't find it and you
can just get in touch with us and
583
00:37:21.150 --> 00:37:22.989
we will have you happily sent it
up. Good stuff one. Thank you
584
00:37:23.030 --> 00:37:25.909
so much for your time done today
was really reads very much as well.
585
00:37:27.190 --> 00:37:31.340
Good Chat. You've been listening to
be tob rather new acceleration. To ensure
586
00:37:31.380 --> 00:37:35.940
that you never miss an episode,
subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast
587
00:37:36.059 --> 00:37:38.179
player. Thank you so much for
listening. Until next time,
