121: The Beginner’s Guide to Sales Gamification w/ Brian Trautschold

February 16, 2022 00:35:27
121: The Beginner’s Guide to Sales Gamification w/ Brian Trautschold
B2B Revenue Acceleration
121: The Beginner’s Guide to Sales Gamification w/ Brian Trautschold

Feb 16 2022 | 00:35:27

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Show Notes

Gamification is more than a buzzword.

It’s a proven way to motivate, revitalize, and inspire your team to great results. In sales, gamified initiatives can have ripple effects that reach every corner of your company.

With strategic implementation, consistency, and intentional connection, you can build a system that recognizes accomplishments and rewards through personalized incentives.

To paint a more detailed picture of gamification, we had Brian Trautschold, Co-founder & COO at Ambition, on the show to discuss the approach of making work fun without losing productivity.

We covered the benefits of gamification, ways to track team accomplishments, personalizing incentives, and more.

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.

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Episode Transcript

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:03.560 I do really think that if we show people the metrics that matter, if 2 00:00:03.600 --> 00:00:07.040 we alert them to keep them aware of the things that will lead them to 3 00:00:07.150 --> 00:00:12.109 be more successful, that helps everyone. You are listening to be tob revenue 4 00:00:12.109 --> 00:00:17.429 acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay on the cutting edge of sales 5 00:00:17.469 --> 00:00:22.179 and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome 6 00:00:22.300 --> 00:00:25.739 to be to be a revenue acceleration. My name is Adam with yer and 7 00:00:25.820 --> 00:00:31.140 I'm here today with Brian Trug should confounder and chief operating officer at ambition. 8 00:00:31.780 --> 00:00:35.060 Are we doing today? Brain, I'm doing excellent. How are you right? 9 00:00:35.460 --> 00:00:38.409 Yeah, very good. Thank you very good. Like a Monday in 10 00:00:38.490 --> 00:00:41.329 the U case, little bit gray, but you know, we passed all 11 00:00:41.409 --> 00:00:45.609 the winter ice night at three PM, so it's three hundred and six PM. 12 00:00:45.770 --> 00:00:49.609 Man Kind of sent you out there, so that's pretty cool. So 13 00:00:49.770 --> 00:00:53.920 today we is you, Brian. We will be spooky speaking about gemmification. 14 00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:59.200 Out to introduce gammification into your sales team and and how can you benefit from 15 00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:02.079 it? But before we get started, would you mind giving us a little 16 00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:04.310 bit of background as to who you are yourself and who is your company? 17 00:01:04.349 --> 00:01:07.989 Ambition Yeah, well, I'm one of the founders of ambition. I'm currently 18 00:01:08.069 --> 00:01:11.189 the CEO. Yeah, this has been an awesome journey for me. Like 19 00:01:11.310 --> 00:01:15.549 you said, we are a company that provides sales performance management software. We're 20 00:01:15.590 --> 00:01:19.819 trying to help revenue teams get the most out of their reps. there people 21 00:01:19.980 --> 00:01:25.379 in whether that's customer facing sales, because for our success, accle management and 22 00:01:25.500 --> 00:01:29.180 ultimately have those people enjoy their experience more. And so how I got to 23 00:01:30.140 --> 00:01:33.530 start this company, and the inspiration was we were all sellers as well. 24 00:01:33.569 --> 00:01:38.049 We kind of graduated college, appendment to the workforce basically during the two thousand 25 00:01:38.049 --> 00:01:40.450 and eight financial crisis. So we had big dreams of what we were going 26 00:01:40.489 --> 00:01:42.530 to be and in my case, I ended up doing inside sales for a 27 00:01:42.650 --> 00:01:48.760 global technology company, and what I found is that the way that they manage 28 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:52.599 their teams, the way that they instead of as people, how they organized, 29 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:56.120 you know, it didn't feel modern, it didn't feel like it resonated 30 00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:59.239 with a lot of the young people like myself, and so for the last 31 00:01:59.319 --> 00:02:01.750 eight years we've been trying to solve that and the deeper we get into the 32 00:02:01.790 --> 00:02:08.069 space, the more opportunities and challenges we uncover. That really impact how salespeople 33 00:02:08.270 --> 00:02:12.590 go about their day, how managers go about their day and how they feel 34 00:02:12.590 --> 00:02:15.900 about the work they do. Yeah, so do you do? You sort 35 00:02:15.020 --> 00:02:20.020 of thinkas focus, you'll send on insight sens and be the eyes dals with 36 00:02:20.139 --> 00:02:23.460 you. You open up to the rest of the on this hars function. 37 00:02:23.419 --> 00:02:28.020 We we open up across the sales function. We really think about teams that 38 00:02:28.139 --> 00:02:31.930 have clearly defined metrics, the clear clearly the fine process. That's obviously something 39 00:02:31.969 --> 00:02:37.810 that's useful in terms of how you track, measure manage those expectations. We 40 00:02:38.009 --> 00:02:44.319 started certainly more focused on inside sales or even some cases like sales development and 41 00:02:44.439 --> 00:02:49.919 high velocity rolls. But what's interesting is over the last two years, especially 42 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:54.360 as we've all become remote workers or, you know, work from home cultures, 43 00:02:55.120 --> 00:02:59.270 it's kind of, I would say, it's brought everyone to a similar 44 00:02:59.310 --> 00:03:02.229 function. Everyone is really focused on, you know, performance metrics, on 45 00:03:02.469 --> 00:03:07.150 checking people's pacing, making sure that folks have awareness to what's happening across the 46 00:03:07.229 --> 00:03:13.300 organization and so whereas you know, maybe two or three years ago someone would 47 00:03:13.300 --> 00:03:16.139 say, well, my enterprise sellers, that's an art, they're doing whatever 48 00:03:16.180 --> 00:03:20.419 they do. I'm not going to mess with their Mojo or their process. 49 00:03:21.060 --> 00:03:23.060 Now they kind of want to see how it's working and how effective it is 50 00:03:23.259 --> 00:03:28.169 and what type of whether it's weekly monthly, metrics, they're doing and how 51 00:03:28.169 --> 00:03:31.370 they're performing to them, of course. And you focus on the specific industry 52 00:03:31.409 --> 00:03:35.729 because, again, you mentioned you stop to your carry in the tech space, 53 00:03:35.849 --> 00:03:38.449 software space, the ease. That's really well, you guys at ambition, 54 00:03:38.569 --> 00:03:40.719 are puts in order of you. I thought of you open up to 55 00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:45.080 us a voute courts as well. Yeah, we're focus on more verticals. 56 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:47.560 Actually, our first customer was in logistics. Logistics is, you know sometimes 57 00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:52.360 now and with all the supply training crisises around the world, it's maybe in 58 00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:54.039 the forefront of our minds, but seven, eight years ago, is kind 59 00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:58.909 of behind the scenes and we started there. We had an amazing customer that 60 00:03:58.990 --> 00:04:04.750 had really an incredible culture that they were managing and measuring almost exclusively on Pad 61 00:04:04.909 --> 00:04:09.590 and paper and Excel, all manual, and we digitize that. We brought 62 00:04:09.590 --> 00:04:13.180 that into a real time virtual world. And so, you know, we 63 00:04:13.300 --> 00:04:18.060 serve logistics, baking and finance, mortgage insurance, obviously, tech and software 64 00:04:18.459 --> 00:04:24.930 and even things like you know, people we call them industrial. But sometimes 65 00:04:24.970 --> 00:04:30.209 those companies are are really interesting chart because they're typically less tecum label than someone 66 00:04:30.250 --> 00:04:34.170 who's inside for its getting continually been down by a sales pitches and people in 67 00:04:34.329 --> 00:04:39.399 alcohalector to get their their business. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, 68 00:04:39.399 --> 00:04:43.519 we we can feel at the mean there is definitely a big searche of SDR 69 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:47.079 Videa, of sels development function in the in the technology space, and part 70 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:50.879 scary is the lack of covid and pund the mix and stuff like that and 71 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:55.670 events that being available to act. And you need to have new means to 72 00:04:55.790 --> 00:05:00.389 generate leads and and obviously one of the common things that people turn to his 73 00:05:00.470 --> 00:05:03.350 bed as there. So we've seen a massive search in a in the BTB 74 00:05:03.509 --> 00:05:06.500 technology space, in the B to be selftware space. But let's get into 75 00:05:06.500 --> 00:05:11.100 the conversation. I've got a few more question about it. Still as an 76 00:05:11.180 --> 00:05:15.819 interesting to pick to see how we can rechivate sales people. But gemmification rights 77 00:05:15.939 --> 00:05:17.540 bit of a buzz word. It means lots of things. I've seen lots 78 00:05:17.579 --> 00:05:21.329 of people pitching us about gammification and saying how they could bring easy could bring 79 00:05:21.370 --> 00:05:25.810 that, and you know, some of it is really is actually very fun 80 00:05:26.089 --> 00:05:30.850 and it's actually not really related to commissions or money or a monetary kind of 81 00:05:30.930 --> 00:05:34.959 a monetary element that you would get as part of performing well. Some other 82 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:39.720 are you know, they could themselves gamification, but I don't really know if 83 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:42.519 it's gamification. Is More like a point system. It's kind of a little 84 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:45.040 about type of things and there is really, you know, for give me, 85 00:05:45.240 --> 00:05:47.120 to win something into have challenging and he's to be a little bit more's 86 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:49.149 a bit of a bus. Well, I think lots of people have different 87 00:05:49.269 --> 00:05:53.589 point of view about it, but let's say that we've got someone who's completely 88 00:05:53.709 --> 00:05:56.189 new to it, to the today. They don't do enough get euscation. 89 00:05:56.470 --> 00:05:59.389 They may have all the bodies, they've not meant the vent all have met. 90 00:05:59.670 --> 00:06:01.470 They don't done it in Yale space, they don't really have an opinion 91 00:06:01.829 --> 00:06:04.420 and they being the death serms flow is already a good pitch to deve environment. 92 00:06:04.899 --> 00:06:11.620 Okay, so I would introducing gamification would benefit that team and that business. 93 00:06:12.060 --> 00:06:14.420 Yeah, that's a great that's a great setup, right, because I 94 00:06:14.459 --> 00:06:17.139 think a lot of more customers are more companies than we would you know, 95 00:06:17.180 --> 00:06:21.329 then we would we would actually guess out of the gate don't know what gamification 96 00:06:21.529 --> 00:06:25.170 is like. It is a total new thing and even though maybe in our 97 00:06:25.170 --> 00:06:29.250 space and in technology or maybe you know fast moving companies, is something that 98 00:06:29.329 --> 00:06:32.720 we're aware of or thinking about, they just think about how is my person 99 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:36.000 doing to quota untament like wills there? Are they on track for their commission 100 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:40.319 plan? And that's enough gammification for them. Right like that, they're doing 101 00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:44.160 you nection, that they have a competitive salespore. I think what's interesting as 102 00:06:44.199 --> 00:06:47.470 we got into this space, we started to build our platform. You know, 103 00:06:47.550 --> 00:06:51.389 we were competing against people who are writing their numbers on a white board 104 00:06:51.470 --> 00:06:55.949 or who are posting, you know, sales rep of the week by the 105 00:06:55.990 --> 00:06:59.829 coffee machine, and so that's really organic, like that's classic sales. That's 106 00:06:59.910 --> 00:07:04.100 in you know, every you know all of the maximums about our customers. 107 00:07:04.540 --> 00:07:09.019 I think what's interesting is over the last couple of years people have become much 108 00:07:09.060 --> 00:07:12.660 more scientific, as the way a lot of people describe that. But they're 109 00:07:12.699 --> 00:07:15.209 trying to have, you know, really streamline revenue operations. They're trying to 110 00:07:15.209 --> 00:07:19.810 be very smart about how they build sales ops and go to market operations and 111 00:07:20.009 --> 00:07:27.410 using data and visibility to data to change behavior, and I think that's one 112 00:07:27.410 --> 00:07:30.360 of the things that we in our space, and I mean will talk about 113 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:32.600 our product, but we really believe is going to have an impact on reps. 114 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:36.360 you know, like I said, if we went into an industrial company 115 00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:41.360 or a fortune five hundred company for five years ago and are trying to educate 116 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:46.149 them about ambition, they would say listen, Brian, we are our team 117 00:07:46.189 --> 00:07:48.949 has, you know, quota plan. They understand how the commission plan works, 118 00:07:49.149 --> 00:07:53.470 they know how to hit it and everything else. They just need to 119 00:07:53.509 --> 00:07:55.870 go get it done and if they don't, they're not going to be here. 120 00:07:55.910 --> 00:07:58.740 If they do, we're going to reward them. Well, that's ends 121 00:07:58.740 --> 00:08:01.339 up happening is whether you're looking at that quarterly or, more likely, annually, 122 00:08:01.379 --> 00:08:05.139 everything's in the rearview mirror. It's all or it's already in the past. 123 00:08:05.379 --> 00:08:09.060 And what you want in a kind of forward thinking sales organizations you want 124 00:08:09.100 --> 00:08:13.730 to be looking out the windshield trying to understand how can you impact behavior so 125 00:08:13.850 --> 00:08:18.569 that people will hit it and and you know that's whether it's their sales process 126 00:08:18.649 --> 00:08:22.610 or how they are their leads come into their funnel and then what they do 127 00:08:22.730 --> 00:08:26.569 with those leads. There's a whole series of conversion rates, right, and 128 00:08:26.649 --> 00:08:30.079 activities you do against those leads. You all know this very, very well. 129 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:31.960 You want to track the measure, all those things, and so alsimily 130 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:37.919 we think about how do you stack up a series of you know, awareness 131 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:41.909 about that, whether it's pure competition points, leaderboards, whatever, like. 132 00:08:41.269 --> 00:08:45.590 The execution of it has to fit into the business and the culture of that 133 00:08:45.710 --> 00:08:48.830 workforce. But but we see that changing a lot. I mean, I'm 134 00:08:48.830 --> 00:08:54.509 a Pelton writer around pelts on every day scaryfication right there. It's everywhere right, 135 00:08:54.590 --> 00:08:58.620 like I can'tnot see it. I use, you know, my Delta, 136 00:08:58.340 --> 00:09:03.379 my airline points, like. Yeah, I'm continually being, you know, 137 00:09:03.940 --> 00:09:07.779 notified and alerted and and I act on those things. And so I 138 00:09:07.019 --> 00:09:11.289 think there's a yeah, I think there's a difference between the gaming side or, 139 00:09:11.409 --> 00:09:16.169 like you know, we're going to make I don't believe in making work 140 00:09:16.610 --> 00:09:20.049 a game. But I do I do really think that if we show people 141 00:09:20.370 --> 00:09:22.769 the metrics that matter, if we alert them to keep them aware of the 142 00:09:22.850 --> 00:09:26.600 things that will lead them to be more successful, that helps everyone. That 143 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:31.480 raises that raises the baseline for everyone and it gives them, I think, 144 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:35.039 more autonomy to make good decisions as a sales RAPP board, account manager or 145 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:39.789 whatever. Yeah, I could not agreement with you the you've got put it 146 00:09:39.870 --> 00:09:41.830 on. So I though, I don't have a puntone because I've got to 147 00:09:41.870 --> 00:09:46.269 Jimne trly tend meutes down the road. But add Jim. They give you 148 00:09:46.389 --> 00:09:48.149 like an out rate money too, so something that you put around the up 149 00:09:48.149 --> 00:09:52.429 chest and you good. They've got station lays, which I like super out 150 00:09:52.470 --> 00:09:54.820 causation, while you run the way that you punch stuff, except for etc. 151 00:09:56.460 --> 00:10:01.899 And God did that make me competitive, because if I'm wearying that stuff, 152 00:10:01.100 --> 00:10:03.820 I want to build the musclar in the room. I want to be 153 00:10:03.899 --> 00:10:07.690 in the red will than all the other guys in the room. I want 154 00:10:07.690 --> 00:10:11.049 to try all the I want to be you know, and it's maybe needs 155 00:10:11.049 --> 00:10:13.490 a bit silly, but you know, I think and to take kind of 156 00:10:13.529 --> 00:10:16.490 energy. One of the facts I want you to mention to use through what 157 00:10:16.649 --> 00:10:22.080 you are saying. We are trying to implement ification right now and we've had 158 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:28.519 a few tries and we had eaten. Miss I believe that you recognize performance 159 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:33.440 through commission plan. Okay, your courage, behavior through gammification. Okay, 160 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:39.230 someone trying hard and not eating the commission needs to feel good about doing the 161 00:10:39.309 --> 00:10:43.190 right things and trying out gammification. It okay. So you can really turn 162 00:10:43.590 --> 00:10:48.070 with gamification. This is what we like about it. You could almost turn 163 00:10:48.230 --> 00:10:52.460 what technically is a down for the SDRVIDEA, something that we just kill them, 164 00:10:52.539 --> 00:10:56.179 Modo killed, that would want them to go outside and walk for five 165 00:10:56.220 --> 00:10:58.740 days, because that the other bit of projection or whatever, into a positive. 166 00:11:00.220 --> 00:11:03.299 Okay, doing things like you know, I don't know. Let's say 167 00:11:03.340 --> 00:11:07.649 you get hundred dollars, commission, for each meeting that you book, a 168 00:11:07.809 --> 00:11:09.730 demode that you book or whatever. It is. All right, I need 169 00:11:09.850 --> 00:11:16.690 to speak to an average. You to speak to let's say five people to 170 00:11:16.809 --> 00:11:20.840 get one demo. Okay. So technically, would what you what we try 171 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:24.200 to Refraine is like what? Look, that's really good in the gamification systems 172 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:28.480 that know, is twenty dollar in your pocket. You need to have another 173 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:31.600 four to get one to say yes. So that's okay, you just made 174 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:35.590 twenty dollar by getting a note. Move on and get the next one or 175 00:11:35.629 --> 00:11:39.149 get a yes. And as a sort of things that we as you said, 176 00:11:39.470 --> 00:11:43.870 it's you use spellit and you don't want to you we probably won't never 177 00:11:43.029 --> 00:11:48.019 see you, you know, on the tour the France and that of things. 178 00:11:48.340 --> 00:11:52.419 But you all, what grammification can help you to do is to compete 179 00:11:52.460 --> 00:11:56.139 in your league, and I think that's really important because when you've got to 180 00:11:56.259 --> 00:12:00.860 large cells team like we've got over two hundred and twenty tword and salts. 181 00:12:00.899 --> 00:12:05.490 You we using count now of the ASDAVIDEA, not everybody is equal. I 182 00:12:05.570 --> 00:12:09.009 can't compel someone who's been with us for three years. We knows business inside 183 00:12:09.049 --> 00:12:11.370 out with those our clients, the market inside out. There's as a new 184 00:12:11.450 --> 00:12:16.600 be that got all the right skill but it's just a little bit wet behind 185 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:20.159 the heels and it's, you know, six months expresses. You impel them, 186 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:22.879 but often the new be will try to look up to those guys and 187 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:28.279 compare themselves to them. So it's about also creating the subcategories for us where 188 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:33.429 everybody at their stage can can kind of compete with people at their level, 189 00:12:33.710 --> 00:12:37.429 and that's what we're trying to were trying to walk and find the right formula 190 00:12:37.509 --> 00:12:39.710 on at the moment, because it's why you got to be careful, because 191 00:12:39.710 --> 00:12:45.659 we know defining leagues almost is it can leak to people, can lead to 192 00:12:45.700 --> 00:12:48.220 people thinking that, you know, there is a little bit of unfairness in 193 00:12:48.299 --> 00:12:52.980 the process. But going back to my question, my line of of question 194 00:12:52.139 --> 00:12:56.539 for today, you know, for the people who are using gemmification. So 195 00:12:56.539 --> 00:12:58.129 let's say you've got companies like us that have been doing a little bit of 196 00:12:58.210 --> 00:13:01.250 it. We've done a bit on our own, and I like the FID 197 00:13:01.289 --> 00:13:05.169 that you speak about. White Body, an employee of the months and Hey, 198 00:13:05.250 --> 00:13:07.970 we've done at all. Guilty. What are the method that you think 199 00:13:09.009 --> 00:13:13.759 are working the best in time of gammification? We have is done an insentive. 200 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:16.360 That is my effective another or challenge. That is my faith terms. 201 00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:20.360 That would you see, walkie, what's cool at the moment? Yeah, 202 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:22.039 well, that's a great question. You know, I think I would take 203 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:26.960 it back because I think, and I try to do this on podcast or 204 00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:31.309 even in sales calls, like it's less about what's the incentive, it's experiences. 205 00:13:31.429 --> 00:13:35.350 I'd say, like if you're if you're going to spend money on employees, 206 00:13:35.470 --> 00:13:37.549 I'll bring my rule. Then do things that they're going to remember. 207 00:13:37.590 --> 00:13:45.659 I think that oftentimes, if you can give or gift or or award people 208 00:13:45.820 --> 00:13:50.179 something that is experiential. That could be as as Nice as, you know, 209 00:13:50.460 --> 00:13:54.019 a dinner with their partner, it could be a trip there will they 210 00:13:54.059 --> 00:13:58.330 will remember that. They'll internalize that differently than here's a two hundred fifty hour 211 00:13:58.370 --> 00:14:01.009 Amazon Gift Card or whatever. That's that's harder, that's more work, that's 212 00:14:01.129 --> 00:14:05.330 more mental energy. I think the bigger thing from a concept side, that 213 00:14:05.450 --> 00:14:11.279 I think every company could be better at is you kind of mentioned it with 214 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:13.120 like the metrics that you actually care about. How do you turn a negative 215 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:18.080 of getting a rejection into something that kind of builds a back up so they 216 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:22.039 don't have to go take that walk because they feel bad? They're like that 217 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:24.990 happens, part of part of playing whatever sport you play. If you play 218 00:14:26.149 --> 00:14:28.230 soccer, you miss shots, shots are off. You know they go off 219 00:14:28.269 --> 00:14:31.710 the post, so that you missed a frame. Like it's okay, so 220 00:14:31.789 --> 00:14:33.149 you have to take more shots to get back in the game. You know 221 00:14:33.190 --> 00:14:37.110 you've gone to got to just think about it and get that in your mind. 222 00:14:37.149 --> 00:14:39.860 You've got to go back. You've good, Muzzumi, doubt right. 223 00:14:41.139 --> 00:14:43.940 It's part of the process. Right, it's just going to happen. If 224 00:14:43.980 --> 00:14:46.740 you take enough shots will miss some. I think the thing that every organization 225 00:14:46.860 --> 00:14:50.539 could do is zoom out. Zoom out and understand, okay, here's what, 226 00:14:50.899 --> 00:14:54.370 here's the end result I want. I want this result from my sales 227 00:14:54.409 --> 00:15:00.169 route, my BDR whatever. Well, how do I break that into monthly 228 00:15:00.210 --> 00:15:05.490 or weekly or quarterly smaller sections? And so now I can give them some 229 00:15:05.730 --> 00:15:09.720 small periodic guidepost that we can build feedback off of and then zoom at one 230 00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:13.840 level, one level further back, and say to hit those guy posts or 231 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:18.759 hit those benchmarks where they need to do daily or weekly. And if you 232 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:22.590 can do that and you kind of build up this this framework of measurements, 233 00:15:24.269 --> 00:15:28.950 now you can continually have really good, positive feedback things. Because you know, 234 00:15:28.190 --> 00:15:31.509 if the commission plan is the end all be all, which is great, 235 00:15:31.590 --> 00:15:33.870 the ascent of INCINDEM's all have to be aligned. Well, how do 236 00:15:33.950 --> 00:15:39.379 you give them the most feedback like that that also are on your that you're 237 00:15:39.419 --> 00:15:41.820 wearing at the gym? How do you know if you're doing while or not? 238 00:15:41.980 --> 00:15:45.899 continuate, because, like, you want to have that that feedback to 239 00:15:45.980 --> 00:15:48.740 be quick, you want it to be present available, and so I think 240 00:15:48.779 --> 00:15:54.769 that those are the mindset that a leader of sales or revenue leader, a 241 00:15:54.889 --> 00:15:58.850 sales ops person should be thinking about so that the last thing you want, 242 00:16:00.090 --> 00:16:03.960 and it's still extremely common, is day and day out a sales rep is 243 00:16:04.120 --> 00:16:07.879 making calls, doing demos, whatever. They don't really know if they're doing 244 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:11.080 will or not. They're kind of like, you know, I hope this 245 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:15.440 deal closes because I'm getting paid on that deal. But they need to be, 246 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:18.350 you know, having better awareness to their better insight to how they're doing. 247 00:16:18.710 --> 00:16:22.509 I don't think that's reportable almost everywhere. I haven't seen a sales process 248 00:16:22.549 --> 00:16:26.029 where you can where you can't kind of zoom out and understand the whole as 249 00:16:26.070 --> 00:16:30.110 well. Yeah, it's what we've seen and what we try to do also 250 00:16:30.269 --> 00:16:36.139 is to one of one of our big problem is it's always a prime you 251 00:16:36.179 --> 00:16:38.299 know in the cells team, you you running sell, Steve, and the 252 00:16:38.299 --> 00:16:41.539 feedback is are there is not enough training. As well, we can be 253 00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:45.500 successful and you put all the training and nobody's using it and nobody gets on 254 00:16:45.620 --> 00:16:48.289 it. And I have a nice too long now. Shall I come on? 255 00:16:48.690 --> 00:16:52.970 So there's no you know, it's always a it's never good or body's 256 00:16:53.009 --> 00:16:56.809 always it's always a good excuse to that. Not Complain, as I should 257 00:16:56.809 --> 00:17:00.769 not use that sort of us very negetive, but it's a bit. It's 258 00:17:00.809 --> 00:17:03.599 a bit like it's difficult to get it right and and what we like, 259 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:07.799 and we've been using a linkedin learning a fair amount. And they do that 260 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:11.200 as what you've got badges, you know, you could put stuff you've got 261 00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:14.680 face, you win things, you've got budges, you level up and I 262 00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:17.390 think it's some fears is working one. And the point I'm trying to make 263 00:17:17.549 --> 00:17:22.549 that you almost to take your analogy of spot. You almost want to also 264 00:17:23.069 --> 00:17:27.630 recognize and do gammification when people are training, not just what they're playing the 265 00:17:27.670 --> 00:17:32.980 game in front of Fiftyzero people, okay, with huge. So it's about 266 00:17:33.180 --> 00:17:34.940 you know, because lots of people don't do that. They just think they 267 00:17:34.940 --> 00:17:41.180 can win it or whatever. So how do you actually get them to through 268 00:17:41.259 --> 00:17:45.009 Gemmification, give them a reward for doing all place that nobody wants to do? 269 00:17:45.410 --> 00:17:48.210 Is absolutely horrible to the role play with your colleague, but it's kind 270 00:17:48.250 --> 00:17:52.410 of important if you are new. It's so cool. Nobody like it. 271 00:17:52.490 --> 00:17:55.849 So you know, it's almost like, in a ways, how do you 272 00:17:55.970 --> 00:17:59.640 make the things that nobody wants to do a little bit more fund through Gemmification. 273 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:02.559 But one question that I've got for you, because we found it even 274 00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:07.920 more complex. So gamification, no white but employee of the months on the 275 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.319 coffemeational a sort of great stuff, as you mentioned. That was pretty cool 276 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:17.390 when everybody was in the office. Okay, now we've got people absolutely everywhere, 277 00:18:17.549 --> 00:18:21.670 and and that's as to impact, I think, on what we are 278 00:18:21.710 --> 00:18:26.230 doing and what we are rethinking. Number one, sometimes we are not seeing 279 00:18:26.269 --> 00:18:30.940 the right attitude anymore. What's the right attitude? Is the right attitude someone 280 00:18:30.019 --> 00:18:34.420 banging stround Red Chords a day or sending thousands email a day? Maybe nuts. 281 00:18:34.940 --> 00:18:41.049 That's maybe not doing the right thing. Okay, so how do we 282 00:18:41.289 --> 00:18:45.170 see what they are doing? You know, if you have a team of 283 00:18:45.289 --> 00:18:47.890 ten people and you are sitting at the end of that De's can you see 284 00:18:47.890 --> 00:18:49.529 them all day? You can pretty much give them points, but do things 285 00:18:49.609 --> 00:18:52.529 physically that and and he's reads you really easy, right, but when they 286 00:18:52.529 --> 00:18:56.559 are two, we found it very difficult. So I guess the question that 287 00:18:56.680 --> 00:19:00.720 I've got for you is a two sided question. Number one is our you 288 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:06.200 guys, you know, adapt it to that walk from type of mentality which 289 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:08.960 is slightly different from SDR BDA because usually we put them in in the same 290 00:19:10.029 --> 00:19:14.910 room. And number two is, do you have any fologians? You have 291 00:19:14.950 --> 00:19:21.589 any that recommendition in time of software or cloud sus model that people could use? 292 00:19:21.710 --> 00:19:26.099 So only you keep truck of the stats and the Gamification, but also, 293 00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:29.140 you know, you can communicate with people as too. Is winning what 294 00:19:29.420 --> 00:19:33.740 with what's happening, and so yeah, it's very it's a mouthful of a 295 00:19:33.819 --> 00:19:38.369 question, but you hit on. I think you basically described the challenge that 296 00:19:40.089 --> 00:19:42.970 that we seek out for with the prospect or customer like that is. That 297 00:19:44.210 --> 00:19:48.289 is why you need a losing your we were, we sold so much to 298 00:19:48.410 --> 00:19:52.799 organizations that had that. Everyone in the same room, TV's on the wall, 299 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:57.200 scoreboards everywhere like that. Was Our customer three years ago and we were 300 00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:00.960 lucky that we built all of these tools for remote work before that. But 301 00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:03.799 it's the best thing that happens to our business ever, was that all those 302 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:07.069 people, like you said, we're everywhere. They're working from home or they're 303 00:20:07.109 --> 00:20:11.349 working from like cat, who we talked to the beginning, to call working 304 00:20:11.470 --> 00:20:15.190 for either skiing somewhere like that is the doesn't don't say that brand now the 305 00:20:15.230 --> 00:20:18.990 next thing is that all them praise of operatics were something like. Imagine stuff. 306 00:20:18.990 --> 00:20:22.819 So iis cat's walking from the shops. You know all of this. 307 00:20:22.940 --> 00:20:27.980 Sorry again, that's especial treatment because catch shift Tonqu possitive. I'll target less 308 00:20:29.019 --> 00:20:33.420 jail. So that's fine. There you go. That's that's good gamification. 309 00:20:33.579 --> 00:20:36.410 That's great. Like that's it. There you guys. That's rewarding the right 310 00:20:36.450 --> 00:20:41.809 things. I think you need a system in place that you can set specific 311 00:20:42.369 --> 00:20:48.329 goals with specific timelines and measures and provide accountability. You know, I think 312 00:20:48.369 --> 00:20:52.880 we talked a lot about rewards recognition in sentives. Part of it is just 313 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:56.400 accountability. You know, are you are you putting in the right amount of 314 00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:59.160 training hours, like you said, are you doing the things that will make 315 00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:03.279 you a good seller, service person, support person, whatever? Because you 316 00:21:03.470 --> 00:21:07.069 mentioned the crux of it is, and this is why we've spent two or 317 00:21:07.069 --> 00:21:12.190 three years of our Product Really Building on our coaching suite, because it's about 318 00:21:12.230 --> 00:21:18.150 effectiveness more than it's just more than about, you know, productivity. When 319 00:21:18.230 --> 00:21:21.140 I say productivity, I mean more and more and more and more and more. 320 00:21:21.220 --> 00:21:23.579 There's a top end of where more is no longer good, like you 321 00:21:23.660 --> 00:21:26.539 said, if someone needs to make three hundred calls a day, that's probably 322 00:21:27.019 --> 00:21:32.180 means they're not very effective on the cause that they're making. There's probably a 323 00:21:32.299 --> 00:21:37.250 good sweet spot in there where they're making good calls, having high quality conversations 324 00:21:37.410 --> 00:21:41.210 to the right type of lead, and so you want to measure that effectiveness 325 00:21:41.730 --> 00:21:45.369 and I think ultimately what we what we strive for, you know, to 326 00:21:45.410 --> 00:21:51.160 go back to part of that question, is providing a system that that puts 327 00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:57.400 the right insights about performance, whether there's productivity, effectiveness, consistency, quality, 328 00:21:59.079 --> 00:22:03.109 into the hands or or surfacing them to the right person the right time. 329 00:22:03.190 --> 00:22:07.670 Sometimes that's the Rep. sometimes the rep just needs to know your off 330 00:22:07.750 --> 00:22:11.349 track. Sometimes it's their man the journeys to know they did something amazing or 331 00:22:12.109 --> 00:22:15.900 they made some help, some training. Sometimes it's the CEO and you're like, 332 00:22:17.019 --> 00:22:21.339 Hey, to use cat can. Just did this incredible deal or really 333 00:22:21.460 --> 00:22:25.579 did this thing that's far the way outside the normal. So you so let's 334 00:22:25.619 --> 00:22:29.140 make sure that Raino so that he can send a message or give her a 335 00:22:29.220 --> 00:22:32.049 call and say, Hey, I just saw this is incredible. Like those 336 00:22:32.089 --> 00:22:34.609 are the things that become you need a system to do that because you don't 337 00:22:34.609 --> 00:22:37.730 have time. I don't have time. distancy as well. I mean you 338 00:22:38.009 --> 00:22:41.809 can do it. We try to do it, but being consistent at it. 339 00:22:41.529 --> 00:22:45.480 Yeah, and evening. If you start to do it and the information 340 00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:51.319 is not flowing consistently, then you'd have John. That feels fantastic because at 341 00:22:51.319 --> 00:22:55.119 the last all ends meeting he had a little mentioned about him. All his 342 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:57.039 friends were looking at him in the office and get up clapping and stuff. 343 00:22:57.079 --> 00:23:03.789 You know where they are on mute. But Pamela next months that did exactly 344 00:23:03.910 --> 00:23:07.109 some stuff, if not better. But the information got didn't get to me 345 00:23:07.269 --> 00:23:08.869 on the side EADS and they're like right, where am I not getting a 346 00:23:08.910 --> 00:23:12.579 mention? That's a great and you absolutely killed dom jo when you that. 347 00:23:12.660 --> 00:23:18.299 And it's difficult because there is an expectation someone from sometimes from staff and and 348 00:23:18.380 --> 00:23:21.900 he's fair. I have him. We see we should know about everything, 349 00:23:21.980 --> 00:23:23.579 but technically, if you're the CEEO of a company or if you're that, 350 00:23:23.619 --> 00:23:27.650 you should know absolutely everything, and you should. It's impossible. It's constable. 351 00:23:27.690 --> 00:23:30.809 You can't get all the information. You don't know the performance of all 352 00:23:30.890 --> 00:23:36.009 the people and it also dependunty, you've got some teams for the manager is 353 00:23:36.089 --> 00:23:38.210 really vocal about the people you've know. Someone's else teams for down. Let's 354 00:23:38.250 --> 00:23:41.640 vocal. So it's about getting that consistency. So I do agree with you 355 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:47.640 at editing a platform that and to get the consistency the information flowing so everybody 356 00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:49.519 streets. D quality is very important, because you thought, he's not a 357 00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:52.039 game. You know, if you a treaty good in the Games. It's 358 00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:56.990 not fair. You just built guy. Yeah, it goes bad because it 359 00:23:56.109 --> 00:24:00.869 goes Beta. And so how do you do that? So do you pro 360 00:24:02.069 --> 00:24:03.750 gets your and systems? I'd like to also a little bit more about yeah, 361 00:24:03.869 --> 00:24:07.190 feature cougs the Bakens. Yeah, I was well, I was trying 362 00:24:07.190 --> 00:24:10.099 to. Yeah, didn't know how deep want to go into it, but 363 00:24:10.140 --> 00:24:14.819 yeah, so we're sinking directly with this drm. So in most cases that's 364 00:24:14.980 --> 00:24:18.980 that salesports or similar diet Microsoft inamics. So we're pulling in not just the 365 00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:23.369 end results, which could be close one deals or revenue. We're sinking with 366 00:24:23.809 --> 00:24:29.650 acceleration tools. That could be everything from you know, the telephony system, 367 00:24:29.809 --> 00:24:33.609 like how they make the calls, or or outreach or sales lock or some 368 00:24:33.650 --> 00:24:37.650 of these great tools that help you kind of do more automated cadences. You 369 00:24:37.730 --> 00:24:41.880 know, conversation intelligence, remn intelligence training as a huge integration for us now 370 00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:45.759 with folks like signs make or lesson latey or high spot. So getting awareness 371 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:49.960 to all of the things these these teams are doing, these revenue facing teams 372 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:55.990 or customer facing teams. So then you get a three hundred and sixty degree 373 00:24:56.630 --> 00:25:00.069 view of all the things that are happening and you can create that those expectations, 374 00:25:00.630 --> 00:25:04.150 the accountability of what do you expect from these people? You probably expect 375 00:25:04.150 --> 00:25:11.259 a whole series of metrics and the manager feels empowered because you know, ignore 376 00:25:11.299 --> 00:25:14.940 ambition. If you're a manager, you've got sales force, you've got probably 377 00:25:15.099 --> 00:25:18.180 Tableau, you've got outreach, you've got a lessonly, you've got gone. 378 00:25:18.900 --> 00:25:22.769 Now you've got six systems and you're like, where am I supposed to look 379 00:25:22.849 --> 00:25:25.890 to find out how many people are doing? But I look at you know, 380 00:25:26.289 --> 00:25:29.329 I'm probably looking at one thing because I don't have time to look at 381 00:25:29.369 --> 00:25:30.529 all, but I'm probably just going to look at how many deals they close. 382 00:25:30.569 --> 00:25:33.130 One selles force and that's the only thing I pay attention to. You 383 00:25:33.690 --> 00:25:37.559 need a system that brings it all together and ends up giving you context to 384 00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:41.920 are they doing well versus their goals? Are they doing well to their peers 385 00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:45.799 goals? You talked about it before. You've got a whole organization that's really 386 00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:52.390 a bell curve from super experienced effective people to new people trying hard, to 387 00:25:52.509 --> 00:25:56.509 people who maybe actually not very effective and need to be trained. They need 388 00:25:56.670 --> 00:26:00.670 context of that and it's very difficult for a manager or a sales leader to 389 00:26:02.150 --> 00:26:04.339 to crystallize all that. So that we give them a system. We're point 390 00:26:04.380 --> 00:26:08.539 the data that were manipulating it so they can see that performance, and then 391 00:26:08.579 --> 00:26:15.140 we're sending alerts out when when things are on schedule, off schedule, on 392 00:26:15.339 --> 00:26:18.210 target, and then we give them tools to go, you know, create 393 00:26:18.250 --> 00:26:22.529 an employee of the month type thing or create a special instent of our competition 394 00:26:22.569 --> 00:26:27.170 around very intentional metrics that they want to drive behavior toward. So ultimately we 395 00:26:27.210 --> 00:26:32.609 give them awareness and then we give them levers to pull to change behavior. 396 00:26:32.650 --> 00:26:34.880 Yeah, that's pretty cool. Some of that. Don't want to come back 397 00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:40.559 on quickly because I think you really need something that was interesting is the two 398 00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:45.160 hundred dollars and Votua. You know, I think there is nothing worse and 399 00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:48.789 a non personal gift. You know, like I don't care what you done. 400 00:26:48.829 --> 00:26:52.150 Something kind of okay, but I can't be bother up to get to 401 00:26:52.230 --> 00:26:55.390 know you. I can't be both up to kind of know what put what's 402 00:26:55.390 --> 00:26:59.109 Rock your board. So here is something and go andknock yourself phnamazon, because 403 00:26:59.150 --> 00:27:02.539 you know you can buy some tooth brush or whatever you want that cry. 404 00:27:02.779 --> 00:27:07.140 How much of that you think is important in the process? Because this is 405 00:27:07.299 --> 00:27:12.619 what I think makes from my perspective, that the that personalization and it's difficult 406 00:27:12.700 --> 00:27:15.450 right in. The bigger the team that the more difficult it is. But 407 00:27:17.210 --> 00:27:21.609 trying to find something that will be meaningful for the people, to create the 408 00:27:21.730 --> 00:27:25.529 smell the moments, because I like your sort process you spoke about, you 409 00:27:25.609 --> 00:27:29.369 know, that the meaningful and then create this moments thing that they can remember 410 00:27:29.690 --> 00:27:34.960 and create a sort of like emotional that that emotional tie is with the company. 411 00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:40.440 So is that something that you get, is walk on with your system? 412 00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:42.799 I mean you have like different type of things that you offer to people. 413 00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:48.470 I mean do you support your client in personalizing, because that's stuff as 414 00:27:48.509 --> 00:27:51.509 well. Yeah, that's really tough, I'll be honest with you. That 415 00:27:51.630 --> 00:27:55.150 by integration. So we don't end up being the redemption of that. I 416 00:27:55.309 --> 00:27:57.309 think that that's ultimately on the manager. And then what you're talking about, 417 00:27:57.309 --> 00:28:03.779 the is really key in terms of when you are delivering rewards or instead it 418 00:28:03.900 --> 00:28:07.940 was, because we talk about this all the time and there's there's really good 419 00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:11.859 research on this. Reps or employees often leave a manager. They're typically not 420 00:28:11.970 --> 00:28:17.210 leaving the company. So if the if the relationship between the manager and the 421 00:28:17.289 --> 00:28:22.450 individuals that great or is broken, that's when they leave and it's it is 422 00:28:22.490 --> 00:28:26.130 challenging and it's a continual thing that I think managers have to get better on 423 00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:30.640 of. You know what motivates right? What motivates cat? Is it? 424 00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:34.119 Is it skime? Is it time off? Is it, you know, 425 00:28:34.519 --> 00:28:40.480 the ability to, you know, jump off work at three hours? What? 426 00:28:40.759 --> 00:28:41.470 You know, whatever. Yeah, well, I could be a I 427 00:28:41.589 --> 00:28:45.549 could be you could be lots of things. I grow with your it's just 428 00:28:45.190 --> 00:28:48.430 it does depend so much from people who have some people would probably would love 429 00:28:48.509 --> 00:28:52.190 to have a meeting Star restaurant experience. someons I would want to go in 430 00:28:52.230 --> 00:28:56.339 any cupital of our London. Some of the I would want to go to 431 00:28:56.660 --> 00:29:00.220 a best ket board game to see the Mavericks, hopefully winning against someone in 432 00:29:00.339 --> 00:29:03.259 the elent trip for you all. Yeah, but you know, it's so 433 00:29:03.460 --> 00:29:07.339 you've got it's always I that's what they've done. The last time I went 434 00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:11.170 to Dallas and managed to go to one of the game and yeah, but 435 00:29:11.250 --> 00:29:15.609 not because I want anything, you know, it's that's the thing. Everybody's 436 00:29:15.609 --> 00:29:18.329 got down things. Some people may just want a couple of tickets for our 437 00:29:18.369 --> 00:29:21.490 concepts, you know, and that's the thing is really meaningful, because that 438 00:29:21.650 --> 00:29:23.289 they the impact of that. She's also you have to wait for it to 439 00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:26.039 apar. You think about it and you've got to find someone else to come 440 00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:30.119 with you. You've got to think about all the ramification of roll that sort 441 00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:34.200 of things. I'm and he's the fun. It's the fun because even for 442 00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:37.200 us we tried to be very fast. Not So. You're bringing up something 443 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:41.589 that I think we call this coaching, and we talked about how to create 444 00:29:41.670 --> 00:29:45.910 consistent coaching it and I'll be honest, I think a lot of organizations this 445 00:29:45.109 --> 00:29:48.150 is one of the things that I think will change in the next few years. 446 00:29:48.470 --> 00:29:51.390 I'll try to wrap this up quickly, so then we're going to Rut 447 00:29:51.470 --> 00:29:53.819 time. But you know, we do this really well for our prospects. 448 00:29:53.859 --> 00:29:59.859 We keep all this information on them and in sales force or whatever CRM WI 449 00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:02.980 using. We know the last time we talked. We know we've talked about 450 00:30:03.019 --> 00:30:04.700 I kept a note of Rayles, the doubts, Mavericks, Ball Ball, 451 00:30:04.940 --> 00:30:11.490 and like we do that with prospects. If you ask most organizations how they 452 00:30:11.529 --> 00:30:15.849 do that with their people, they'll be like, I don't know, we 453 00:30:15.009 --> 00:30:18.609 talk every two weeks or I talked to him every day in slack and you 454 00:30:18.690 --> 00:30:22.799 know, I know I know ray but like I don't remember what is that? 455 00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:25.960 I don't remember his band, I don't remember his team. And so 456 00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:29.319 like the notes end up living, you know, on a legal pad somewhere 457 00:30:29.319 --> 00:30:32.880 or they're like, you know, in email or whatever. They're not in 458 00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:36.470 a system. And so what we built with our coaching product is that. 459 00:30:36.670 --> 00:30:40.789 So like every one of those one on ones or performance reviews or check ins 460 00:30:40.869 --> 00:30:44.630 between our rep and a manager like that gets store and they can they can 461 00:30:44.710 --> 00:30:48.950 revert back to that meeting from four weeks ago and he was like he told 462 00:30:48.990 --> 00:30:51.099 me he went to go see a basketball game. I don't remember what it 463 00:30:51.259 --> 00:30:52.940 was, and I'm going to see I was doubts mavericks. How cool. 464 00:30:53.140 --> 00:30:57.500 I'm a tip that note. And I think that employee we call a customer 465 00:30:59.019 --> 00:31:03.500 relationship management like I think that employee May's better. Those relationships is key. 466 00:31:03.980 --> 00:31:08.250 And then you also combine that with performance trender were time you say, Oh, 467 00:31:08.369 --> 00:31:12.250 when I ran a certain type of contest or in incentive, did ray, 468 00:31:12.730 --> 00:31:15.529 did he really like? Did anything change or it was that just something 469 00:31:15.609 --> 00:31:18.359 that he liked or he don't care about that? Okay, cool, I'll 470 00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:22.359 remember that. Is it when I set a personal challenge for him where I 471 00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:26.039 say Hey, man, this is just between you and I just want to 472 00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:29.200 see if you can go do this thing in the next month. He responds 473 00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:32.160 to that type of thing? Cool, like I'M gonna. I would now 474 00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:36.150 know if that I'll remember that. It's I think that's where we're going with 475 00:31:36.430 --> 00:31:41.390 this this space and with us as a specific company, where it's not just 476 00:31:41.630 --> 00:31:45.150 one size fits all, one in set of FIT's all. It's more of 477 00:31:45.190 --> 00:31:49.220 a personalized, smarter approach. Yeah, that's next month we trying concept of 478 00:31:49.299 --> 00:31:53.940 about sock like would walk, which is the the team, the team ships. 479 00:31:53.980 --> 00:31:56.900 I know if you're familiar with sock like would what is basically a British 480 00:31:56.940 --> 00:32:00.769 guy. That was it. Took on the coaching for the REDB team do 481 00:32:00.890 --> 00:32:04.369 the you can rid the Teindo wanted doing well and they went on to win 482 00:32:04.450 --> 00:32:07.289 the World Cup. To the very end. Then, since that she was 483 00:32:07.410 --> 00:32:10.930 it was basically the end of the Olympics when the Olympics came to London and 484 00:32:12.049 --> 00:32:15.880 I was one of the best ever year for our best of an Olympic for 485 00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:19.799 UK athlete in time of gold, middle and everything. So obviously someone who's 486 00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:22.839 very good at getting the most of people and he's got that concept of teamship 487 00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:28.160 which is well, get them to set the rules and it's interest the rules 488 00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:31.789 as them what they think. We should look at the other complan that already 489 00:32:31.789 --> 00:32:35.190 speak about the performance. Don't want to hear about that. What are the 490 00:32:35.269 --> 00:32:38.109 stuffings that I important and you gave mefication. You could get to point every 491 00:32:38.109 --> 00:32:42.029 day because you are puncture. You don't want me in the office and you 492 00:32:42.109 --> 00:32:45.460 get my five points. If you don't at nine, certain self, nine 493 00:32:45.740 --> 00:32:49.339 for example. But if he's coming from the team and the defining the rules, 494 00:32:49.700 --> 00:32:53.180 usually is the better too for people to Adare to them. The second 495 00:32:53.220 --> 00:32:57.779 thing is we also looking at and maybe something that only should you do it 496 00:32:57.900 --> 00:33:00.769 with your solutionism, get the other way around. So basically, is the 497 00:33:00.849 --> 00:33:06.769 team that give the leadership team a challenge. Yeah, a game or you 498 00:33:06.849 --> 00:33:08.369 know, whatever it is, but is should be a challenge. You basically 499 00:33:08.369 --> 00:33:10.930 go to a team as it give us a challenge. What we change. 500 00:33:10.970 --> 00:33:15.200 You all day long about your staff challenges. Think about it. Come up 501 00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:19.279 with a challenge and I'm gonna take it and we're gonna have fun about it, 502 00:33:19.599 --> 00:33:22.000 you know, and that's that's sort of sort of things that again, 503 00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:25.640 it's not it's not the you've got all the other things about commission plan and 504 00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:28.750 everything, but I think when it comes to the top, and the top 505 00:33:28.869 --> 00:33:30.750 is a bit to go to the people that you know working and they look 506 00:33:30.789 --> 00:33:34.230 up, and so it's always medi managed me and everyference. Know, you 507 00:33:34.309 --> 00:33:37.349 give me a challenge. What can I do? When do you think I 508 00:33:37.390 --> 00:33:39.470 can do? For it with be absolutely outstanding, like for me in my 509 00:33:39.589 --> 00:33:43.299 shoes. What can I do and what's my time for him to do it? 510 00:33:43.339 --> 00:33:45.619 Let's be really sick. Let's pick up and that's kind of cool because 511 00:33:45.619 --> 00:33:50.259 you end up having a little bit of fun and from my personal point of 512 00:33:50.299 --> 00:33:52.940 view, this is how you get to the people, because they will, 513 00:33:52.019 --> 00:33:57.009 you know, you have just conversationals like the outside of the business, and 514 00:33:57.170 --> 00:33:59.970 some of them may may have somebody that thought it a bit crazy, so 515 00:34:00.250 --> 00:34:02.089 you may have to tame them a little bit, but some of them may 516 00:34:02.130 --> 00:34:06.049 come up with some consult are quite fun and in fact, then you go 517 00:34:06.170 --> 00:34:07.849 and do it, you make it a little bit public and it shows that 518 00:34:08.010 --> 00:34:12.119 you know, you are also ready to take a challenge. Yes, just 519 00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:15.239 responsibility people. So that's that's that's also something pretty cool at we doing. 520 00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:19.119 But UN fun. That's great. Yeah, I mean you you know, 521 00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:22.440 we try to lead by example and and and I have a bit of fun 522 00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:25.429 because, you know, I think it's you know, we speak about gammification. 523 00:34:25.510 --> 00:34:29.510 We can speak about gammification without speaking about fun. You know, it 524 00:34:29.550 --> 00:34:31.789 should be fun. Yeah, it should be fun. But thank you so 525 00:34:31.869 --> 00:34:36.349 much for you inside brand. We getting to the end of allocated time. 526 00:34:36.389 --> 00:34:39.980 We try to keep it factively shot shots, so some people can just listen 527 00:34:40.019 --> 00:34:44.500 to us, to us on that commute. If anyone wants to carry on 528 00:34:44.539 --> 00:34:46.699 the conversation with you, Bryan, or get in touch resambition, what's the 529 00:34:46.780 --> 00:34:50.820 best way to get all of you? Yeah, we're easy to find where 530 00:34:51.059 --> 00:34:53.650 ambitioncom like to connect with you all. We have tons of resources. If 531 00:34:53.650 --> 00:34:57.730 you're trying to change what you're doing, learn more about Seales, coaching, 532 00:34:57.849 --> 00:35:00.849 ification, performance management. I'm happy to connect with facts on like then please 533 00:35:00.889 --> 00:35:05.130 find me Brian Trout show, as well as to wear so not to connect. 534 00:35:05.170 --> 00:35:07.280 And once again, where I really appreciate you have me all. This 535 00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:09.599 is awesome conversation. Yeah, thank you so much for our time. As 536 00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:14.679 a pleasure to have you on just brand. Thank you. You've been listening 537 00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:17.519 to bed be read a new acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an 538 00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:22.550 episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so 539 00:35:22.670 --> 00:35:23.510 much for listening. Until next time,

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