123: 10 Years of Sales Development

March 16, 2022 00:33:33
123: 10 Years of Sales Development
B2B Revenue Acceleration
123: 10 Years of Sales Development

Mar 16 2022 | 00:33:33

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Show Notes

Sales development has come a long way and is an increasingly vital component to any successful business.

Though it’s something many businesses can’t live without, the function is often neglected by leaders, who fail to invest in it or the experience for the employees charged with making a success.

That’s why I invited David Dulany, Founder and CEO of Tenbound, onto the show. He brings a wealth of experience in sales development and knows first-hand how to get the most out of your sales development.

In this episode, we discuss how sales development has changed drastically in the last decade, why AI won’t be taking over the SDR position any time soon, and why companies need to invest more into the role and improving the experience for their hires.

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for B2B Revenue Acceleration in your favorite podcast player.

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Episode Transcript

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.960 --> 00:00:06.559 You were listening to be tob revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive 2 00:00:06.599 --> 00:00:10.400 stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's give 3 00:00:10.439 --> 00:00:13.599 into the show. Hi, you welcome to be to be a rever a 4 00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:17.160 new acceleration. My name is already in with you and I'm here today with 5 00:00:17.280 --> 00:00:21.719 David de Lenny. See You and founder of ten bounds. Are You doing 6 00:00:21.719 --> 00:00:25.760 today, David? I am doing great. I'm so excited to dive in 7 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:31.160 with us and it's a big one because today it's a quote, special quod 8 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:36.640 spisher episode. It's out ten years and eivers three episode. So you're very 9 00:00:36.679 --> 00:00:40.520 special guest. You know someone that get very close to our art and and 10 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:44.640 since we all said I'm racing out ten years of annivers three eat operatics, 11 00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:49.119 we wanted to speak to someone who's been involve fatherless ten years in the sense 12 00:00:49.159 --> 00:00:53.719 development business, to speak about what happening of other as ten years basically. 13 00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:56.920 So can you beat but before we get started, could you tell us a 14 00:00:57.000 --> 00:01:00.640 little bit more about yourself, David? I mean the people. I don't 15 00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:03.320 know. You must be living on those stone, but you know, because 16 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:06.359 you just tell us a little bit more about you and and the company you 17 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:11.439 represent, ten bounds. Yeah, it's interesting, Ray, because when I 18 00:01:11.480 --> 00:01:17.079 initially met you, quick background, I had been running in sales development programs 19 00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:22.519 at different tech companies here in Silicon Valley and I was between things and I 20 00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:27.000 started consulting with just friends of mine who needed help, you know, either 21 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:34.079 hiring sales development reps or putting their playbook together or writing scripts and just anything 22 00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:40.680 sales development related. It was kind of my niche. And when we met 23 00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:45.560 initially I was working with one of our clients and we were looking at different 24 00:01:45.560 --> 00:01:52.599 outsourced SDR companies that could help augment and you came in and presented and it 25 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:56.879 was super impressive. I can't remember if we, you know, went forward. 26 00:01:56.920 --> 00:02:00.719 It wasn't my decision. It's not my I just make recommendations, but 27 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:05.480 very impressed with you and I've known you since then. I think that was 28 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:08.759 two thousand and seventeen, and so you know, right now we've got there's 29 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:14.759 two sides of ten bound. One is those advisory services. So we still 30 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:22.080 work directly with SDR teams in Silicon Valley and their executives to help them, 31 00:02:22.120 --> 00:02:24.960 you know, improve the performance of the program or start the program at they're 32 00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:30.000 at their companies, and then on the other side we do media. So 33 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:38.599 we run conferences and Webinars and digital events to help support the sales development community. 34 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:42.159 And another quick thing I wanted to mention is we're going to be working 35 00:02:42.199 --> 00:02:46.439 with operatics. I don't know if you know this, but they we're partnering 36 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:51.120 up on some conferences this year. So super excited about that. Now, 37 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:53.319 well, what excites to bother? I think, what one of the things 38 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:57.120 that to be found about ten bodies like you. You're ready putting to the 39 00:02:57.240 --> 00:03:01.639 sens development functional on a binistal all and and we are so much behind you 40 00:03:01.719 --> 00:03:05.879 on that. You know, it's kind of I remember the last podcasts that 41 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:09.080 we've we've done together as probably a couple of years ago now, maybe at 42 00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:12.759 least. So you, and I'll forgo and you came up with that, 43 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:15.919 with that concept of having cells development at the bat right. Why are we 44 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:20.680 not at the Bat right? And and I remember that has been sticking with 45 00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:23.680 me since, and I've been mentioning your name two lots of people about about 46 00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:27.879 that conversation. So so, yeah, it's been a it's been a pleasure 47 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:30.360 since two thousand and seventeen, hating you as as a contact and somewhere that 48 00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:34.280 can call to bounce some eydeas with. You know, always, always a 49 00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:38.520 great source of knowledge. So, David, in the last ten years things 50 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:42.639 have changed. I remember I started at the bottom, like you know, 51 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:46.120 like you like, you've done as well. And for me when I started 52 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:50.039 in two thousand and four, two thousand and five is more and ten. 53 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:53.759 You know, I be talking about really relieving revealing a little bit my age 54 00:03:53.800 --> 00:04:00.400 here. Literally, we had nothing. We had seeball as a crm system 55 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:02.960 and you had to open up like your PC and put a CD around inside 56 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:06.479 and just cannot get it on the computer. We had with something like the 57 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:11.800 equipment of the yellow pages, to get like a book of contact Excel S, 58 00:04:11.800 --> 00:04:15.319 preatcheet that did look like rainbows because color cudding was, you know, 59 00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:18.279 such a, such a, such a cool stuff back then, and I 60 00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:23.439 was it even linkedin. Was Not there when I want to when I started 61 00:04:23.519 --> 00:04:27.639 then. God, if you look at it now, if you look at 62 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:30.959 I remember you showing me like the thee as a marketing tech quadron that you 63 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:35.040 put together, always a little of logos. Things have changed of a day. 64 00:04:35.959 --> 00:04:43.920 Yeah, it is it's almost like, you know, the Jurassic Jurassic 65 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:47.199 Park or something like that to think about that, because yeah, definitely, 66 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:53.600 I mean I I can even go further back. When it came to prospecting, 67 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:58.319 we had dummy terminals and probably the people who are on the call don't 68 00:04:58.360 --> 00:05:00.439 even know what those are, but it's essentially, you know, there would 69 00:05:00.439 --> 00:05:04.639 be a server in the office and then the computers were just hooked up to 70 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:10.000 the server and all you had was that database and it was a name of 71 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:15.680 phone number and maybe a note box like and somebody was loading that in. 72 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:19.959 So yeah, the evolution has been tremendous, you know, and I think 73 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:28.439 big picture, to start with, sales development really has changed from very tactical 74 00:05:28.759 --> 00:05:35.360 and and, you know, task driven work to something that's very strategic and 75 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:42.560 critical to the success of a company, especially, and so we work with 76 00:05:42.680 --> 00:05:47.639 SASS companies, you know, who are fast growing softwares of service companies. 77 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:53.759 That's exclusively, you know, our niche and you know, once a product 78 00:05:53.879 --> 00:05:58.199 is ready, you know the the marketing is pretty dialed in. At some 79 00:05:58.279 --> 00:06:04.279 point someone's it's talking about out bound and and suddenly this becomes very strategic. 80 00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:10.839 So I think that that's one of the main changes that that I've seen over 81 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:15.319 the last ten hours. Yeah, I also think that I'm being told as 82 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:19.439 well. So that is becoming more difficult and I think it can of makes 83 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:27.480 sense because when you look at the population of technology companies that have been popping 84 00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:30.240 out of the woodwork every you've got more and more text I mean you are 85 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:34.800 looking at the the investment that are going inside businesses. Literally they just, 86 00:06:34.920 --> 00:06:39.199 you know, multipling by ten years on you. So I think there is 87 00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:44.639 a real push towards technology and and the market is a little bit more crowded. 88 00:06:44.680 --> 00:06:47.360 I think people have more options, you know, I think the toolbox 89 00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:51.439 is becoming much greater. For the prospect and when you are selling technology, 90 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:56.480 no matter what you are obviously everybody's coming with the very proposition, but there 91 00:06:56.560 --> 00:07:00.800 is so many best of breed solution the sort of like a very specific project 92 00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:05.879 or problem. Sorry that it's kind of confusing for the prospecting and it's other 93 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:11.319 belief for the for the cells development professional to to actually, you know, 94 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:16.399 differentiate themselves, goes through and, let's face it, I think with the 95 00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:24.160 with the increasing demand of Asdrbda think the level of quality or the increase of 96 00:07:24.199 --> 00:07:28.720 mediocrity in what people are doing. From a tactic perspective, it's not only 97 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:32.959 giving a bad name to the job but but also probably impacting people who are 98 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:36.199 trying to do a good job to go through and actually have the good conversation. 99 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:43.920 Right. So I think it's also that sort of almost the psychological element 100 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:45.759 of yeah, I want to do it, but I want to do it 101 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:47.040 cheap, because I think we went through that of all the ten yards. 102 00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:49.920 You know, we went through okay, let's do it internally. Now, 103 00:07:49.959 --> 00:07:53.639 let's do it internally, but we should do it cheap. That's okay if 104 00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:56.480 we do it of shure. Now it's not okay anymore to do it of 105 00:07:56.560 --> 00:07:58.800 show, because the quality is that they are but we're going to do it 106 00:07:58.839 --> 00:08:01.959 internally. No, externally again, well, actually less for cruit the game 107 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:05.160 from the outsourcer. Well, it's not working because they're not managed there. 108 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:07.800 It's all of those things working to get it and it's becoming more and more 109 00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:11.120 complex and I think the generation of people have changed as well. You know. 110 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:16.399 We know that we we speak about millionaires alert and I don't think that 111 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:22.759 fundamentally difference from from the other. But I think it's a they're the people 112 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:28.720 that are doing the job. Ten years ago were probably more sealesy and less 113 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:31.559 sticky than the people who are doing the job now. You know, people 114 00:08:31.559 --> 00:08:35.240 were doing the job. Now they've got a different way of communicating. Ten 115 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:37.600 years ago, most of the sales gays I would speak to. If you 116 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:39.720 want to speak to each other, I would be on the code or face 117 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:43.960 to face meeting. Maybe a slower way to the business. But now you 118 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:48.279 know you've got to be ference in what Stupp you've got two different in slack. 119 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:54.320 No information is flying and I think all that as made. I don't 120 00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:56.919 think he's making the sells development was and he was before. It's just making 121 00:08:56.919 --> 00:09:01.679 it maybe a little bit more complex. Sinectic Gates, and then it took 122 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:05.440 people specific. Yeah, definitely. I mean there's so many factors and and 123 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:09.919 on one hand, you know, I I would like ten bound to be 124 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:15.639 a place where people can go and just feel a little bit, you know, 125 00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:18.919 clarity. Yeah, about this this mel you you know that that's that's 126 00:09:18.919 --> 00:09:24.360 happening right now in the industry. And at the same time, I mean 127 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.440 we have a long way to go, because you mentioned a lot of different 128 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:33.639 issues that have come up. You know, one one is, if you 129 00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:37.240 boil down sale development to the most basic level, you know, they're in 130 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:43.919 borrowing from Marcus Lamonists, there's people, processes and the technology. Yeah, 131 00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:48.559 and and and so, you know, all of the issues that you mentioned 132 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:54.799 there they can be sort of bucketed into this simplistic format. And so just, 133 00:09:54.919 --> 00:10:01.320 you know, thinking about the people. It's the profile of the type 134 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:05.840 of people that would want to do the job, because you know, it's 135 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:09.240 not easy. It's definitely a high energy, high, you know, high 136 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:16.759 rejection sales position that not everybody's cut out for. So so it's getting the 137 00:10:16.759 --> 00:10:22.879 people right and the expectations that people have, it's getting the process correct and 138 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:26.039 mapped toward the market that you're going after and then, as you mentioned, 139 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:35.720 it's getting the right technology to support your strategy, you know, without overspending 140 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:41.480 or plugging into many technology solutions and things like that. So it's a it's 141 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:46.120 a fine balance and that's so much so many different aspects. Yeah, yeah, 142 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:48.559 I appreciate that. Then, you know, I know that that ten 143 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:52.320 bounds over the yells. You've been a you've been publishing a set as development 144 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:54.840 market map. Okay, so I I kind of I need to to eat. 145 00:10:54.879 --> 00:10:58.159 When I spoke about the different loogo that you are putting together. I 146 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:01.600 guess it's so for you, a Quadrante is more like a map and and 147 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:05.759 I guess this is a great way to track, you know, out the 148 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:09.440 market that has been evolving. So on top of people and Technologies. Is 149 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:13.759 that anything else that you've seen from from the stripot like Cretty, evolving of 150 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:18.399 things that you think you know alligin should should watch for the future trends? 151 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:26.279 Yeah, I mean so there's a few things. One is it's evolved in 152 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:31.159 a way where at first, when we thought about bringing together all the different, 153 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:37.000 you know, tools and services that serve the sales development community, it 154 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:45.559 was very tactical, so and and it was very based on on point solutions 155 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:50.200 that could help with specific things. But how it's evolved over the years is 156 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:56.000 similar to the way that sales development as involved, because it's more about what 157 00:11:56.159 --> 00:12:03.480 is it going to take to connect marketing and sales and create reliable pipeline, 158 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:07.960 you know, for the sales team, three x x pipeline. And and 159 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:15.080 so if you look at the map, there's there's an outsourced component and and 160 00:12:15.159 --> 00:12:22.440 you know, it contains the companies like operatics which which provide the pipeline for 161 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:28.480 companies from an outsource perspective and and then it also goes into all the different 162 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:37.720 software that's available to run cadences and to coach and to develop the people internally, 163 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:41.600 because what we see is, you know, at a lot of companies, 164 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:46.360 after a certain point they're running both outsourced and and in source as ther 165 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:52.799 team, because they're looking at things from a overall pipeline perspective versus just, 166 00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:58.080 you know, tactical things. So yeah, again put in agreement, which 167 00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:03.080 you in fact, we've done some research on our clients and as them to 168 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:07.639 cushion way out social you've got an insults team and it's interesting because we see 169 00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:11.639 most of all clients insourcing rules such as insight sense, which is kind of 170 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:16.159 you know, batoline is Dabda. But the people will do the low value 171 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:20.200 type of the most of the lower average in value type of deal and probably 172 00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:24.240 take them a little bit falls or even take them to close or close them 173 00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:28.000 throots through a channel partner. And the reason behind that is because these are 174 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:31.679 people at Instud the technology. They want to be in control of that. 175 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:35.399 You know, it's a revenue generating again, some of them. Do our 176 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:37.159 stats it, but we see most of our plans liking to have that that 177 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:43.679 function internally. And the other one is really around the inbound response management. 178 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:46.360 So our marketing team is generated in needs. We need people at can take 179 00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:50.960 the seats quickly, qualify them and move them, push them to a dip 180 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:52.879 more push them to to to the next step, would be a meeting them 181 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:58.480 or whatever it would be. However, when we ask them, you know 182 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:03.840 why the out source of what you see value in outsourcing is often the case 183 00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:05.720 that we are I'm not trying to make generate it, but probably talking about 184 00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:09.919 seventy eighty percent of the people we spoke to. So fair amounts. You 185 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:15.679 know, when you think about we've got probably got close to two hundred clients 186 00:14:15.879 --> 00:14:18.519 active at the moment. So you know, and we this our customer this 187 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:26.440 is our customer success team asking this question to those clients and the feedback we've 188 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:31.399 got some about we need people that actually know the market. Then we need 189 00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:35.279 people that know the end user. We when we do outbound calling, the 190 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:39.840 issue with guys that we speak about us, but when we do run outbound 191 00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:41.120 call, we comes. We shouldn't speak about us. We should be making 192 00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:46.399 assumption of the issue that that accounts or that Doesna is facing, and I 193 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:50.120 think this is where the alsource are still very relevant in the market. Is 194 00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:54.080 kind of that. The capacity of an outsourcer to understand the target accounts on 195 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:58.639 those on the personnel. I've experience in targeting this person. I've conversation on 196 00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:03.799 that. There belt people who have built up sequences because again, you know, 197 00:15:03.879 --> 00:15:07.720 my was in the conversation on Monday, or maybe yesterday on Tuesday, 198 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:11.200 with with with a potential client. Okay, and it is funny because it's 199 00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:16.960 it's actually an ex employee that is now a sells director introducing us to his 200 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:20.919 marketing team and we kind of getting all together. So person's work was an 201 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:24.399 inside of operatics and was actually very good doing the job. And that's because 202 00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:26.720 the question as well was the difference between doing it our self or doing it 203 00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:31.039 with you slap. It's just time and pace. You know, you guys 204 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:35.240 are all smart people. You're smart, you have good job, you're probably 205 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:39.279 paid a lot of money, but you're not to specialist of waid. We 206 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:41.679 do, but you're smart, so you gotta figure it out. It may 207 00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:43.080 take you nine months, you may take you twelve months. You will have 208 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:46.519 turn over in your team, processes won't be set up the right way. 209 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:52.240 But you are smart, so you will fail, learn and get better every 210 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:54.440 month. Okay, it's going to be difficult to put that stone, but 211 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:58.120 but you will get there. Oh, you could come to us and literally 212 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:02.200 in one month, will up and running in one months and an hour. 213 00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:07.399 Who are rempt up instree months, whilst delivering results technically six months before yours? 214 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:11.519 A team would have dine it. Okay, you don't have the Pram 215 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:15.360 of sourcing, which is the first kality issue. You know, I mean 216 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:18.360 everybody saying it's a candidate market. I think about that. For the US 217 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:22.320 twenty years, always be the condidate market. Yeah, good, Bedea, 218 00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:25.720 good as they are impossible to find. Why are the impossible to find? 219 00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:30.519 Because if you are a sells direct or marketing direct or VP sells or CR 220 00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:34.399 or CMO, and you are in your right mind and you identify a good 221 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:37.960 videa as the idea team, you're going to take them under your wing and 222 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:41.799 no one will take them away from you. You will make sure that you 223 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:45.399 push them. You know. That's why those guys are at on indeed or 224 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:48.039 looking for a job. They don't need to update the see me the good 225 00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:51.240 one. So you don't find that you can of need to get the first 226 00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:56.039 speak and to get the first peak. You need to recruit on competencies versus 227 00:16:56.080 --> 00:17:00.919 experience and that stuff. Okay, but I guess the point that I was 228 00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:03.319 want to make your to cut along story shot, is the pace. I 229 00:17:03.319 --> 00:17:08.039 think the value of the outsourcer should be the understanding of the market, the 230 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:15.400 ability to have data and intelligence of your own user. Obviously, processes, 231 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:18.839 but all that you know, processes, people, all that sort of stuff. 232 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:22.680 It's really about pace. I can help you to get results in one 233 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:26.680 months when, if you do it on your own, you probably gets results 234 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:30.000 in stre months. We can get to a cruising space in two months to 235 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:33.440 an ALF months. Is going to take you nine months to get to a 236 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:37.359 cruising pace. And then when we go is the cost of having the team. 237 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:40.039 You will have to another in your team as well. Everybody we have 238 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:41.720 turn of. All these people are being pushed right, left and center. 239 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:47.200 So that's the interesting conversation of insourcing our thoughts also things. So I guess 240 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:51.000 my point two, number one is outsource of for probably a bit more of 241 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:55.279 a practive approach, that that's where we see the market going and maybe the 242 00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:57.640 trending to US twenty two. And the second thing is for the pace. 243 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:00.680 You know, people just need to get that now that they don't have six 244 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.519 months, they don't have one you they've got to getting them now. Yeah, 245 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:07.519 exactly, and you know there's a lot there. I mean we always 246 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:12.480 recommend to think about we need. We need the pipeline right now, you 247 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:15.960 know. And so what's available, you know, and and look at, 248 00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:21.319 you know, outsource seeing as an option there, because exactly like you said, 249 00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:26.319 that's your full time job, is running SDR team. That's your company 250 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:32.599 basically, is the processes during place, especially if you're niched into a market 251 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:36.799 and you know, for example, cyber security, so you know the vocabulary, 252 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:40.839 you know the problems, you know the conferences. You you know you're 253 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:45.599 really ingrained in that industry. You can hit the ground running and and you 254 00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:49.160 know, on the flip side, there's a lot of advantages to having the 255 00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:53.720 internal SDR team, you know, from, like you said, the bench 256 00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:59.759 strength. Yeah, hiring people that could be at your company for the next 257 00:18:59.799 --> 00:19:03.759 generation of your company. And a lot of the big, big companies here, 258 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:07.640 you know, it's still a kind of valley and beyond they have a 259 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:10.960 whole. It's almost like joining the army, you know, you're a boot 260 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:15.599 camp recruit, and they stick around at these companies for years because they're just 261 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:25.039 highly valuable contributors. So two quick things that we recommend is if you're thinking 262 00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:30.200 about starting an SDR team or it the program is struggling and at your company, 263 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:36.160 start a start with a good manager who's done it before and has a 264 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:41.640 playbook and knows what they're doing, before you hire another internal str yeah, 265 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:47.720 get a good leader for the program, you know who's worked with s outsource 266 00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:51.279 companies, who knows how to write a playbook, who can do training and 267 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:56.400 coaching and all those things. Start there and then and then build out the 268 00:19:56.519 --> 00:20:02.160 internal team. The other quick thing is you mentioned something critical, which is 269 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:07.720 when you're bringing in a new SDR, start with the industry, start with 270 00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:11.640 the problems that you solve and start with the audience that they're going to be 271 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:18.680 talking to and make sure that they have that vocabulary and understanding before you move 272 00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:22.920 it's just a huge issue that we see that people start just like you said, 273 00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:27.200 they're they're plugged in with all these tools that are on the market map. 274 00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:32.440 They have the ability to send out a bazillion emails, but they know 275 00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:36.480 nothing about the industry that they're calling on and so once they finally do get 276 00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:41.640 into conversation, they just blow it and and they're miserable, you know, 277 00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:47.200 because they're not getting results. So it's a down, downward spiral. Yeah, 278 00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:52.119 now appreciate that. The thing that's so we picked up infected the Yeo. 279 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:56.599 We we met there was a Linkedin reportitus publishing two thousand and seventeen about 280 00:20:56.599 --> 00:21:00.920 the twins and melting jobs, and they the list and sends. Development was 281 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.119 on them balls three. I mean God if he was only end emlgen jebbing 282 00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:07.680 to SASA and seventeen. Adult know again, what people do. Well, 283 00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:11.960 befall that. But whatever the AA in some of that because literally, I 284 00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:15.480 think I think everybody's there is such a ideam and for bgis the odd the 285 00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:21.119 moment. What you see the mockt going. Yeah, I mean I think 286 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:23.480 that demand will still be strong, but there's a lot of a lot of 287 00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:32.079 different factors. If you look at the SDR team as the connective tissue between 288 00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:37.440 marketing and sales, you have to have that connective tissue to be able to 289 00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:44.440 connect the dots on inbound and brand and digital events and then being able to 290 00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:48.240 give it to someone who can run a demo and be successful in negotiation and 291 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:55.640 closing the deals. And and we're not quite at a point ray where we 292 00:21:55.799 --> 00:22:00.000 can just automate the whole thing and have robots doing right. We're getting there, 293 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:06.039 but I don't see that happening for another five to ten years unless somebody 294 00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:11.240 can show me where you can get rid of all strs and and make that 295 00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:18.279 connection without hiring people. And so I think right now that's why demand is 296 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:22.319 higher than ever. I wouldn't be surprised if that report came out and SDRs 297 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:27.079 are still one of the top, you know, five in demand jobs out 298 00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:32.640 there, because we have, we're quite develop the technology to be able to 299 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:37.359 get rid of the position. Yeah, and you know, and bringing it 300 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:42.759 back also to the outsource industry, I mean your industry continues to grow because 301 00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:48.079 there's an insatiable demand for exactly what you're talking about. You know, sales 302 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:53.599 teams need x x pipeline going into the corner. They have to be able 303 00:22:53.640 --> 00:23:03.440 to show that and if product marketing demand Jen brand building is not producing enough 304 00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:07.880 in bound leads. Then we've got to go out bound. We have to 305 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:11.079 go proactively talk to people, and that's where the strs coming and this has 306 00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:18.599 been the we expecting to to have a wave from covid nineteen. So obviously 307 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:21.680 when Covin eighteen eight, you know it's like it was going to happen. 308 00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:23.960 So it's like a it's like March two thousand and twenty. I was just 309 00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:29.200 back from skiing literally in the center India, Picenter, I started in Europe. 310 00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:30.319 So I can't bring back with me in the UQ, which is terrible, 311 00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:33.480 but there you go. That's for the same story. The market got 312 00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:37.599 a little bit crazy. You know, we were walking with some very large 313 00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:41.359 companies, probably the biggest IT companies you can think of. That elp us 314 00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.000 with such a generous to great thing and if you want, the completely cut 315 00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:48.079 offf the marketing budget. They let a lot of people go and lots of 316 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:52.359 things want to, you know, going well. So that was a some 317 00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:56.440 big contract that left us but to actually managed to grow during that year, 318 00:23:56.680 --> 00:24:00.440 but probably more towards the Sumerdult of the year, because I think the beginning 319 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:04.119 everybody frows and then people are like wow, okay, we can phrase forever. 320 00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:08.440 We've got to sell stuff. We've got to we've got to go back 321 00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:12.039 to just marketing. And then two thousand and twenty one was kind of that 322 00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:15.599 tour. Okay, we need to go back at it. Well, when 323 00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:18.119 you're behind, right, it's kind of over. Now it's not over, 324 00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:22.240 but everybody's fed up with it, right, so let's let's move on. 325 00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:27.319 And even some a taking place. You know, it's difficult to meet people 326 00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:33.039 in personal I think that was a big component of Lee generation proactively. Generations 327 00:24:33.079 --> 00:24:36.200 are going out there and fishing, getting people to come at your whatever, 328 00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:41.160 and dose big show that taking place probably have impacted by plane drastically, and 329 00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:44.960 we saw that this year, you know, we we saw a large show 330 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:48.359 by in factors from Francisco, Rsa. You know, you are speaking about 331 00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:52.480 save our security a few minutes ago. This is Rasa is probably the biggest 332 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:56.440 saber security show in the world and avery it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger 333 00:24:56.519 --> 00:25:00.960 and bigger, in fact that some points they may remain in the Bosculony Center 334 00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:03.359 to keep on, you know, digging in the grounds to make it bigger. 335 00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:07.759 I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that got postponed to 336 00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:11.640 June. You know, if you are a Saber security company, you like 337 00:25:11.960 --> 00:25:15.759 our marketer, you're expecting to get three hundred lets from the TV and right 338 00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:22.119 into one in February. That's business technically for two thousand and twenty two. 339 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:25.720 If you've got a six months or cycle. Right. If it's moved to 340 00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:27.519 June and you've got a six months of cycle, that's twenty twenty three. 341 00:25:27.559 --> 00:25:33.519 Business start good anymore and you need to change your tactic very quickly and I 342 00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:38.720 think lots of people have been turning to outbound prospecting because of that, which 343 00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:42.799 I guess is a good is a good thing for us because we add clients 344 00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:48.400 turning to outbound prospecting that did not believe without bound prospecting anymore. You know, 345 00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:51.079 they have had so many bad explain that they are like none. That's 346 00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:53.200 not possible. Nobody can do it out so so I would terrible, all 347 00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:57.720 crappy. But they kind of came back to us because almost you don't have 348 00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:02.960 any choice, like, you know, kind of Moonwalking, Moon walking towards 349 00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:06.599 us and stead of going for not really being shut up, and we managed 350 00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:10.079 to tell them around. We managed to change their opinion. We managed to 351 00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:12.799 prove them that we can go and get bigger deals P actively. That then 352 00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:17.440 what they were doing before that. That that's been a there's been a plus 353 00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:21.480 for us. But I guess my last question for you is really about the 354 00:26:21.559 --> 00:26:25.319 future. Okay, and from your perspective, David, you know, when 355 00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:27.880 you see the next five ten years in time of in time of you know, 356 00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:30.599 sells developed, my what do you think will happen? I don't you 357 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:33.519 just book about Ai and stuff like that. Do you think those things will 358 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:37.440 actually come to life? Yeah, I mean, you know, I think 359 00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:47.640 that they'll be a gradual process of automating the repetitive, boring, frustrating aspects 360 00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:51.519 of the job, which is a lot of the research and, you know, 361 00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:56.839 looking manually through different things and the type of stuff that causes people to 362 00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:00.160 burn out. I mean they're they're if a machine can do it, it 363 00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:04.720 will be, you know, replaced for sure. But what can't be replaced 364 00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:12.240 is the the human creativity and the ability to make connections and and learn and 365 00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:19.119 grow through experience of really understanding the market right and and so I think humans 366 00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:23.359 still have a place here for at least, you know, five to ten 367 00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:27.519 years unless somebody can figure out a way to do that. And I think 368 00:27:27.640 --> 00:27:33.599 for for sales development, we just need to realize it's strategic, it's an 369 00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:37.640 important part of the marketing mix and the whole industry needs to get better. 370 00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:44.000 You know, there needs to be better management, better training, more executive 371 00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:52.000 support, more coaching and and and and setting expectations correctly for people getting into 372 00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:56.359 the job. I think that that that's a huge, you know, area 373 00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:00.480 of potential because, you know, there's so many jobs available and there's all 374 00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:06.119 these people coming out of college and there they don't have, I mean no 375 00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:10.240 offense, they don't really have any skills or any experience and they become an 376 00:28:10.359 --> 00:28:14.799 SDR and they're like this sucks. Yeah, this job sucks. You know, 377 00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:21.599 I can, I'll just flip NFT's and make eighty seven thousand dollars in 378 00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:23.440 a minute, whatever that means. I don't know what that means, but 379 00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:27.640 but you know, we've got got, I can to you everything about it. 380 00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:33.440 Okay, this free ducks and streight chickens of some sorts. I'll tell 381 00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:34.839 you everything about all the the on the future. They I've got. I 382 00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:37.599 got into an FT. is this. It's a vicious circle don't get that. 383 00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:42.079 It's quite addictive and it is really is. Really is really a fear 384 00:28:42.119 --> 00:28:45.920 of missing out. Is it's about for more really. So it's kind of 385 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:48.680 fun to look at it. But anyway, now I know which is, 386 00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:53.599 you know, companies, companies need to realize this is worth investing in and 387 00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:59.960 you've got to improve the experience for the people on the team and make them 388 00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:03.720 more engaged. And then, and then also performance management is very important, 389 00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:07.359 because if somebody gets in and they don't want to talk to people, they 390 00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:11.559 don't want to be creative, they don't want to leverage the tools, they're 391 00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:15.519 just like, I'm just going to do this for the money. I mean, 392 00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:18.440 of course they ask. They are job sucks. Yeah, should be 393 00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:22.480 a byproduct when you should be a byprode of to doing something you like. 394 00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:26.039 You know, is level walks the other way, but I you know, 395 00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:29.720 it's music to my hair. Really. I think that's really what we're doing 396 00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:33.519 in the recruitment process, you know, trying to get people to under song 397 00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:37.079 with the role is yeah, and in fact, you know what of I 398 00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:40.000 don't recruit anymore, but when I used to work with one of the thing 399 00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:41.720 that I used to do is to say to people in the lasting telview, 400 00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:45.599 even if they were fantastic, say well, look, you look great. 401 00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:48.920 David. On the personal level really like you, but I don't think the 402 00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:52.359 job is for you. I don't think you are cut off right and stop 403 00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:56.519 speaking. And then you see what they're doing and new home, someone you 404 00:29:56.759 --> 00:30:00.519 are waiting there. Your art is spelt the dating because someone you want to 405 00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:04.079 give them the job. But you do that last thing, which is kind 406 00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:08.200 of that that Mexican stand off where you're say, okay, please, please 407 00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:12.119 push back, please stand please fight for it, and you've got some that 408 00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:15.720 fight for it and it's not what you're talking about. I think I'm perfect 409 00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:18.799 for the job. You said, okay, that's exactly what I wanted to 410 00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:21.359 see on Monday. But you've got some of that. I just pack up 411 00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:26.279 on that stuff. And that basically tells you that if they get an objection 412 00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:27.599 from someone a little bit more senior, they would just take it as a 413 00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:32.759 grunted and move on. And there is so many things that needs to be 414 00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:40.319 it's psychologically, the complexity of doing what we do from the different lover or 415 00:30:40.359 --> 00:30:44.039 even even being a full on serves person. I mean, I'd love to 416 00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:45.960 see some ai doing it. You know, I'd love to be proven wrong, 417 00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:48.440 but I think it would be extremely difficult. I mean if we've got 418 00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:52.440 that, technically whatever, we'll have ai that is get that can replace human 419 00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:56.799 and I would be quite scary. But I think is is such a skillful 420 00:30:57.200 --> 00:31:00.720 job that it's air. We will see what the future got for us. 421 00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:06.279 But I do agree with you with the whole setup. So we get into 422 00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:08.319 the NFIP is an unfortunately, David, you know that when you and I 423 00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:11.160 get together we can go on for a long, long, long time and 424 00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:15.359 we both fully passionate about what we're doing. So and we can post on 425 00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:18.799 Drei the chat as well. But look, I'm sure lots of people want 426 00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:22.480 to probably reach out to ten pounds everybody. I mean I don't know when 427 00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:29.119 single organization that would not need advice or concertancy with their own insight team. 428 00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:32.680 And he two days do and you're listening to us. Tabe is probably one 429 00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:34.880 of the most eligible person you can get in front of. So that's it. 430 00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:37.720 That's giving me a little bit of giving you little bit of credit. 431 00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:42.119 Yeah, but if anyone in aligience wants to get old of you, David, 432 00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:45.480 was the best way to to to less. Yeah, definitely. I 433 00:31:45.559 --> 00:31:51.000 mean we put out a newsletter every Tuesday and it's free and it's at ten 434 00:31:51.079 --> 00:31:55.160 poundcom and it's a great way to just understand the stuff that we're working on 435 00:31:55.400 --> 00:31:59.440 and then how it could help you, and the events that are coming up, 436 00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:01.599 because there are a lot of them, are free as well. Yeah, 437 00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:06.000 so jump out of this letter and Ray. Thanks. I mean it 438 00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:08.480 definitely the sky's the limit here. I mean, when people start to take 439 00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:15.680 this seriously and realize how important it is, the industry is, you know 440 00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:20.799 it's going to explode. So absolutely what we've been here for ten years proving 441 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:22.559 that, you know, we can be done, that it can be done 442 00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:24.599 properly and there is a market for it. You know, been growing pretty 443 00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:30.279 much fifty percent on year since since inception. So I know self funded. 444 00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:32.480 So there is definitely, definitely a market for it. There is definitely a 445 00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:37.839 doubt there is a fantastic market to operation. It's a bit gritty, you 446 00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:40.119 know, and I think I think the other you work the better you get, 447 00:32:40.279 --> 00:32:44.480 you know, out of it. But again, I know that you've 448 00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:47.160 been you've been spending a lot of time studying the markets, looking at the 449 00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:51.640 market, staying on top of the trends and what's going on, not only 450 00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:53.839 from a technology perspective, but so also satis tactic perspective. So, once 451 00:32:53.920 --> 00:33:00.359 again, anyone in the audience looking for is a a good conversation or or 452 00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:02.279 some support, do gets in touch with David and David, I want to 453 00:33:02.359 --> 00:33:07.400 thank you so much for being with us to celebrate out ten now, ten 454 00:33:07.480 --> 00:33:08.920 sen, you are straight. Technically we're gonna do that all this yea off 455 00:33:08.920 --> 00:33:12.359 like I want a celebration for the whole of two thousand and twenty two, 456 00:33:12.759 --> 00:33:15.160 but it's actually is, actually pretty much today on Imaustraa. Thank you for 457 00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:19.359 being there. Thank you for being a great guest, and I speak to 458 00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:23.920 so you've been listening to bedb read anue acceleration. To ensure that you never 459 00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:29.279 miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank 460 00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:30.400 you so much for listening. Until next time,

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