Episode Transcript
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You were listening to be tob revenue
acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive
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stay on the cutting edge of sales
and marketing in their industry. Let's get
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into the show. In this special
episode of Bahb Revenue Celeration, will be
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hearing from host or alien motier and
CEO of ten bound, David Delaney.
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They discuss the sales development outsourcing report
at the recent ten bound conference, offering
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an exclusive look and how industry leaders
use outsourced s to your agencies. Well,
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hello everybody, I'm back. I
haven't I haven't moved, but the
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conference has moved on. That was
a great session we just had with Sean
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at Zoom Info, and I am
honored and blessed to introduce the next guest.
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I call him by his nickname because
I can't say his first name.
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Ray. How are you today?
I'm very good, David, and very
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good right. Thanks for jumping on
and thanks to operatics for helping us to
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run the great two thousand and twenty
two outsource industry survey. We're just honored
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and and and so grateful for your
support on this. Yeah, so pleasure,
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David. We think the fostome the
MIT. You, while just starting.
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Ten bounds still going. We know
ways to start a business. I
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love what you're doing. As I
said to you many times, I think
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there is not enough people who are
trying to help those a sens professional organization,
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Bos trulie around the the sence of
development pace. So as soon as
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we knew that you are doing a
bit of four research, we wanted to
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add which we think is normally spots
and being the community. Absolutely, and
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I mean this is a big endeavor
at you know, when when we interact
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with executives, and so you know, essentially ten bound works with executives on
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the go to market side, CMOS
and and VP's of sales who sales development
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as one of their responsibilities, the
managers and directors like Sean from Zoom Info,
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and and then all the SDRs,
especially on the executive side. They're
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wondering. They need pipeline, they
need sales pipeline and they they're doing a
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ton of marketing activities, they're building
their brand, they've got a great sales
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team but they don't have enough pipeline, and so they will hire an SDR
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team. They'll have a great SDR
manager, but one of the pieces of
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the puzzle, especially if they're going
after a niche market, is should we
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get involved? Should we use an
outsourced agency and outsourced SDR agency? And
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that's one of the burning questions.
And they you know, they start to
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go onto Google and talk to their
friends and there's just not a lot of
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good benchmark reporting on that topic.
And and so this is the second year
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that we've run the great ten bound
operatics, sales development outsource survey. And
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so, just to give you that
context, we got over two hundred and
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fifty responses asking a series of questions
on how people think about hiring an outsource
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agency and when it's a win,
it's the right move, and what their
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sentiment has been on working with companies
like yours. So, Ray, when
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I first met you I was consulting
with a cyber security company, right and
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and if you remember, you came
in and did a presentation. It was
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it was terrific and you, in
starting the company really focused on building pipeline
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in the cyber security area. Is
that right? Yeah, we started,
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we say both security. We wutanistic. Now, so we have not take
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fin take lots of infrastructure, stiller, not of Saber. It's a very
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insistuous world. People get a quailed
move on to another company to take us
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with them. I guess the brands
are not the most loyals because they did
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have stuff. You know, a
P company, P from gets involved,
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people sell out and wants want to
move on to someone's. But but the
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individual, the actual contributor, the
VP marketing, the VP send the Clod,
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the crows, the CEO's are relatively
loyal to us and always come back
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to us when they started the new
venture. So we've had that side that
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has been doing very well. But
now sign or security on you represent around
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at suppers. Some too fall revenue
and we are doing much more in time
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of big data, infrastructure matake,
fintake and we have created puds. So
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what we beat if we bed that. We need to be an expert in
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which you do. So we've got
puts of fixed pertise for each of these
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different type of solution and it's about
them or something with people speak around the
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bolt table ready. And if you
want to be good at productive it stot
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about your product. It sort about
your every proposition. It's about what's happening
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into organizations, so intelligence on what's
going on. It's what's fuel the success
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of our team. Yep, and
if there's a lot of ways to think
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about this. So as a leader
of sales development, you know you you
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want to think the next level up
in your organization. What are the CMOS
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and VP's really concerned about? And
and you know one of the main pieces
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is we need to build pipeline and
and so that's when it comes down.
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Do we hire an internal team?
Do we use an outsource team? Do
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we blend the to you know,
what's our next move here? And so
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one of the key characteristics, I'll
get into the survey, but one of
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the key characteristics that you mentioned is
the expertise in the industry that you're calling
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on and and understanding the industry and
the personas and the vocabulary to the degree
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that you're almost fluent in that and
and you can be more effective in your
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messaging under the person. I mean, the way I would have character is
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it is speed. You know,
semo, Sia rows. They need speed,
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particularly if you're speaking to an early
stage company or if you're speaking to
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a scale up. They won't spit. The day they made the decision to
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alsource, they already three months behind. All right, so they want you
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to get going. The expectations are
really I and the first thirty, sixty,
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ninety days absolutely critical. And Yeah, I think speed is the is
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the most important aspect that do CMOS
and siarrows are looking for, and the
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expect is is linked to it,
because if you know the market, if
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you've got data in the market,
if you know the accounts, if you
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know what's happening in this organization,
of course that with that will add the
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speed. So I would say speed
is probably the most predominant things that those
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guys after. Yep, and and
one of the big questions that we get
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at ten pounds. Should I just
outsource the whole a SDR team, which
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is kind of scary, you know, because I grew up in the s
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right and so if you got outsource, that means you're such ally thrown out
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on the street. It was a
bad time. But but you know that
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that's the main question. Or should
I have only an inhouse team or potentially
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bland? So let's let's dive into
the survey because we go into some of
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those questions. Yep, okay,
so the respondence people wise. So interesting
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on this front is that most of
the people that responded are in a managerial
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role or an executive role. So
they're they're thinking about this and the survey
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appeal to them because they really wanted
to get a free copy of the report,
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which we have. Actually it's in
the it's in the chat from opera
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attics and and so they want to
understand which, which of these should I
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do and create that benchmark. Most
of the companies that responded are in the
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US, just as smattering from from
Europe, and that's probably because ten bound
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is based in the US and most
of the people that are involved in this
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or in the US. And and
then average sale price is pretty much across
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the board. But the meaty meaty
part is, you know, a midsize
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to sort of entry level and the
entry level enterprise deal. I just want
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to share I'm getting a SDR call
right now live on the interview and it's
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marked a spam. So we did
a interview a while ago on how to
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get around that. So make sure
if your calls are being marked with spam,
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you have to do some stuff on
the back end. But anyways,
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how long is your average deal cycle? So again we're getting into like the
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entry level enterprise and that could be
again the the Tho that were focused on
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because, ray, I know a
lot of your clients. They are actually
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large deal enterprise accounts that you work
withs are correct? Yeah, it's correct.
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I think the the we've developed a
bit of a reputation to a disruptive
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vendors and we like to operate in
the enterprise world. We like to be
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a little bit more account base maybe
then some other companies. We do a
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fair amount of you know, I
can see the on the sledge. You've
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got tear like appointment setting, in
bound sales. These are the classic services,
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right, but the account based out
bound I think is recent thing that
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not only our clients are struggling to
do, but other agencies don't know how
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to start. And and this is
a bit of an art about you know,
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how do you open the door?
And I'll do you then do the
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deep Dave in the account when you
saying something and there is multi by your
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personnel and you want that to create
that consensus where everybody can make a decision
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and decide for the solution. So
I find quite interesting that the event registration
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is low, but that's probably due
to covied and the that people are struggling
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to get face to face into events. But what I would say that even
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registration should be part of an appointment
setting on account base, out bounds program
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I don't three on dozen way people
do adduct around. You know what you've
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got amounts, David. Here is
a list of two hundred people. I
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want an attendant. I think that's
not quality. I think what should happen
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is we work together or we are
your team. Okay, we are targeting
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those people any way, and the
even should only be one cold call,
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a faction or call to action.
Okay. So you could do emost use
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the event as an excuse to go
back to a notch ring put or you
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could use the event as as a
way to get someone that doesn't want to
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get an appointment with you, because
that's the problem of appointments. At incompaign,
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you called prospect because you want an
appointment with them and sometimes because you
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want the appointment so bad you forgot
to focus on the essence of the conversation.
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And when you forget, when you
focus on the essence of the conversation,
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you often get you often get what
I would say as a by product
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that meeting coming your way anyway.
So it's kind of interesting the way it
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works. But yeah, we all
do. Services. Are Things that we
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do. Lie Generation Not so much. We leave that to marketing. If
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I've got to go downder something of
generation and list management again, I think
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we will be too expensive. We
don't offshore any resources. So you know,
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if you want to do listen management, do it. Do it some
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much shape. Don't do it with
people based in London or that. That
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are solved another yeah, I mean
this is actually really surprising to me because
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if you think about it like a
like a funnel, sort of the very
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very top of the funnel is just
identifying people, getting them some information,
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maybe getting them interested in turning an
event and things like that. And and
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yet the number one, you know, almost twenty percent of the respondense was
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appointment setting, which is like way
down the final I mean, they have
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to know about you, they got
to kind of trust you, and I
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got to give you fifteen percent of
your time. So that was surprising actually.
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Yeah, but you know, the
the the outbound appointment setting is again
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to think we'll come back to your
question later about when they should do should
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absource everything on that, but it's
more, I think is more difficult.
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The appointment setting and the account based
album is more difficult for insight teams for
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the simple reason they tend to be
brainwashed about the product and the functionalities and
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if you lead an outbound conversation with
with functionalities and how your products is the
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best on the market, you know
people won't respond to that. People respond
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about what the problems are, what
issues they are facing, and if you
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can't correlate the two, your chances
of getting an appointments are really slim.
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So asking people what they would out
source, I'm not sure prise appointment is
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coming up. My bits of pride
that outbound seals isn't a little bit higher
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because we see a lot of people
at once more lack of complete cell cycles
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and they want to add solves that
completely, particularly for meat market stuff.
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But there you go. Yeah,
and and I'll cut to the chase.
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I mean it. We we recommend
really is that you have both, because
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you can see, you can see, you know in talking with with Ray,
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that the learnings and the insights and
the expertise that an outsource agency can
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bring can feed into the learning in
and the playbook of your internal team and
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you can go back and forth with
with an outsource agency. You don't have
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the talent pipeline, you know,
to work into your that Sean was just
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talking about in Zoom Info. But
you can get better results faster at the
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same time. So why not have
both? But anyway, that's just overall
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recommendation that we make when people ask
about this, and I think it.
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You know, if you look at
the next the question, does it ever
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make, sir, make sense,
to completely outsource? We got a strong
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response. There was like sixty eight
percent. Yeah, either strongly or slightly
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agree. And you know that's counterintuitive, because what are your what are your
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thoughts on that? And, fast
and foremost, imagine if we sponsor the
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survey and you have only people disagree. Who is it? So I'm quite
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glad, man who that's it.
Relax now. Now I think I think
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you made you made you made a
very good point. I believe it's a
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question of stage in your life.
Okay, you know, you, you
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you, you come out. If
I take an example, when I was
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a students and I had to paint
wool or fix something in my house,
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I would probably go to the shop
by some paint and do it myself.
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I would not out sourced. You
don't really have the money to do it,
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could do it myself. He was
not a big place or whatever.
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Now I had I outsource absolutely pretty
much everything. Okay, because I mean
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a position where and in my time
back and, quite frankly, if someone
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else do it before, we are
likely to do it better than me.
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But I was not in that mindset
right so yeah, I think there is
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that. I think you made a
fantastic point about people should outsource to any
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you when you alsoso the right company, you should get inside. That really
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helps you to understand what's happening in
your market, what the prospect are saying,
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what's the voice of the customer?
What are the system that I should
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use? What sequence you should they
build? What's My SDA playbook looks like,
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etc. Etc. If you work
with an expert, and I say
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that two lots of clients who ask
me the question should out socially and not
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out source. Well say to them
as look, you are small people.
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You would not be on that job
being paid big money in a text startup
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or tax scale up if you are
not smart. So, quite frankly,
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you can do it yourself. If
you come to us, you can either
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do it in three months, six
months and get it to work. But
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if you do it on your Aly, may take you nine months, twelve
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months to figure out how to make
it work. So really is a question
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of how quickly do you need it
and when you get to that conversation.
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That's why I think, you know, people are more keen to also,
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in the first place is for the
speed of execution. Again, get in
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the resource. Yeah, I think
when my dears rusher start working and I
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could spend, you know, five
hours on Youtube and buying all these manuals
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and I swear I could fix it
at some point, but my wife called
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my eye to know me to take
the tool box out of the garage and
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hem like now it sounds like a
lovely she knows me when that's good.
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So yeah, we and and again. You know, we got great results
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from it, so it definitely works. So if they're thinking, they're like,
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okay, we have an eternal team. We Love them, they're doing
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a great job, but we need
more pipeline and we need it fast.
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We need an expert in the industry. How do we set up an agency
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for success to either integrate or to
take over the sales development program yeah,
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so that's a fantastic topic ause actually
to pick that we are we are looking
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at in a lot of detail with
our customer success team, I'll sense team,
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and operation guys. The reason why
we're looking at it in details is
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that we have we've had a little
bit less satisfaction from newish clients towards the
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Sou Gond half of two thousand and
twenty one, and I think the reason
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behind that is big. We've been
a little bit victim of all success and
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we have a good reputation in the
market and world of mouth. Good at
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operatic sticks or your problem. Okay. So people come and I'll sense team
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would probably not bring enough friction in
the process. So people come, we
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get things going very quickly. We
get going and then we find an all
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dul and those are door. We
try to fix it. We, we,
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we obviously canly bright, but perception
can go very quickly. Okay.
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So now what we are doing is
really working on that enablement, okay,
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and setting expectation, spending time with
our prospect really bringing friction in the cycle,
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almost telling them this is the list
of things that could go wrong and
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this is the process we've got for
every single one of them, and we
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wanted to show you that, because, no matter if you do it with
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us or with someone else, on
your own, decide the issue that we
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will face. Okay, so I
think that's extremely important. The other thing
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is that we need to agree with
clients. At enablements is one thing,
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but nobody comes out of an onwnboarding
and those are to do something. So
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ongoing training is also very important.
How do we do that? Ongoing training?
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Treating the team as an extension.
Again, if you're going to add
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source, don't treat them as a
supplier or don't treat them as a sort
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party. Are People at are lower? Just bring them as part of the
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team, make them feel good.
What on the psychology? If people like
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you, they will work out of
for you. If they don't let you,
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you'll struggle to get things from them. Okay, that's kind of common
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sense. But again, sometimes we've
got plans that don't turn up to weekly
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business for you, don't turn up
to monthly business for you, and they
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expect is fine, because they are
busier than us. But when you don't
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get the support, when you don't
get the love, it's a bit difficult
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to give the love back. Okay, so if you want a hundred percent
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of the people you've got. You've
got to make them feel good understanding the
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challenge of running a team. I
mean again, it's kind of coming back
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to bringing the friction. They will
be Tourne over in an SDR team.
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You know, in your previous conversation
with shown me that show yer. Just
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want to make Chub about his name. He was talking about people being promoted
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internally. Okay, what we suggest
to our clients is when we're going to
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introduce you to your video as?
Yeah, I've a chat about the carrier
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path, so they can tell you
what they want to do. Maybe you've
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got an opportunity for them. Maybe
we can work to together to get that
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guy of that girl working on the
program for nine months, twelve months feel
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great, a good job, and
then we'll help them to move to their
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next the next part of that career
path. Okay, but being very clear
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and transparent about it is refreshing.
You know, when we've got clients say,
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you know, David's got to stay
on my compaign. I don't care
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if if he's got all the right
attribute to become a manager. Is a
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great videas yea for me. If
you remove him I'm leaving you guys.
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Usually we say to the clients,
okay, go, because it's people.
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First is those guys have worked six
months, nine months, ten months,
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eighteen months on your program. Now
they want to progress. Guess what,
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I was that guy, you are, that Guy David. We would have
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been those guys. We've got to
give them their chance. So these are
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the thing that are also very important. And then the last one is using
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the insights provided. You know,
it sounds bizarre, but sometimes people get
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with us or get with an outsourcer
and they kind of force you the way
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of doing things. And what one
of the most the best example is someone
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coming up and so I've got a
script. Say Okay, show me your
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scrapes. Let say yeah, the
script that we use with the last three
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agencies and then we use it with
a team that we build internally. Never
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really worked, but I'm pretty sure
that with your reputation, you give me
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work. So we just take it, shoot, tear it apart and say
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no, let us lead, let
us show you, let us be,
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give you the guidance. And sometimes
some of our clients, I don't like
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some of the feedback we've got to
give them because it's extra walk because it's
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not as easy and plain seeling as
they were expecting it to be. But
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you know, in any relationship,
I think you need friction if you only
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to grow and and and that's what
we're trying to do. Because, yeah,
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what is too easy? When clients
come because their friend to you that
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you are the best things in slice
bread. They come in, they just
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give you everything they've got, they
don't negotiate, they don't want to ask
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the question. You go and then
they realize that it's not what they were
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expecting because that perception was perfect.
And this average, because at the beginning
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of a program is difficult, right, so you've got to accept calibration.
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That's why they should come. But
so, yeah, so what I would
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say is break bit of friction,
treat the team as an extension of yours,
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as your friends, as your kids
are whoever. But give them respect
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and you're going to get respect back
and use the insight that we, the
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are also will provide to get better. Completely and and as a part of
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the survey, we did interviews with
five or six top sales and marketing leaders
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and it's exactly to your point.
The one of the the the thought process
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of a lot of people outsourcing is
set it and forget it. Yeah,
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it's like here, Ray, I've
got this huge, big, ugly problem.
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You take it, I gotta go
do something else. And and that's
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that's where it sort of goes off
the rails, right, because you you've
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got to be involved. You would
never do that with an internal as Dr
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Team unless you are really lousy.
Yeah, BPOR director, you wouldn't just
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set them up and put them in
the corner and think that they're going to
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produce. But people do that with
the outsource agencies. And Yeah, and
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let's comment on that, is the
amounts is probably I would say that around
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eighty percent of the clients that leave
us for that pastation and sell. Yeah,
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you know what I will do.
It is going to be better if
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I do it myself. I would
say eighty person come back to a six
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months later after training it themselves and
they just come back. And so you
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know what's okay, okay, guys, all right, we get it now,
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and sometimes you need that. You
know, it's an important step,
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because the game, the grass slop
Gren now. So let's go that when
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but it doesn't taste as nice.
It's just so yeah, you know,
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there's no silver bullet and and you
know it's interesting because we see this at
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our clients. It's IT'S A it's
a pendulum. You know, they'll go,
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I'm going to try in house SDR
it doesn't work, we'll get rid
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of them, we'll go with an
agency. That didn't work, we'll go
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back to it. And you know, and then people are always coming in
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and out of the company. You
know, they only stay at the company
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for one or two years and then
they moved to the next company and it's
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just this ongoing it's it doesn't create
an excellent pipeline production machine, it's this
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jalopy. I don't know if you're
Eli with that. I've got time for
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one more question. Rate. This
all been so interesting. Thank you for
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sharing your knowledge and I forgot to
mention also visit the booths. You can
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get a free copy of the report
that we're talking about for planning. You
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00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:56.920
can meet with the operatics team.
They're over in the virtual booth and get
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more information and also Zoom Info,
you know, and the other sponsors have
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their booth there. One last question
from IDO at. I hope I'm saying
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that right. TCK. He's I've
met him before. He's developing a sweet
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intelligence product. How do you get
your intelligence to your SDRs and bedrs so
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that they can come up to speed
quickly? I have something interesting to say.
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Yeah, so we've boot we when
we will own in your face and
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we will small company. We used
to cull it the meacat system. You
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know, the market a dose,
little things that just stand up and if
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this is something they just speak to
each other and they all know and then
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they go in the hole together.
That was the mere cat right. You've
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got the you've got the separator and
you just stopped your eys and you just
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say, you know what, I
get this. I've got that. The
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intelligence was flowing that way with GDPR
and things like CCPA in the US.
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You've got to be a little bit
more careful with what you are end laying.
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But what we've built, because I
appreciate need to be conscious of time,
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is that for every single one of
our clients, we found a system
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that is basically a multi tenancy crm. So we can we can run a
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company in their own little silo,
in their own little environment, but we
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have a two way synchronization with a
platform that we call CID. Social intelligence
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at a day is so basically a
few David, you gonna call on to
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an accounts, update some contact details, update some intelligence on the account,
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such as, okay, those guys
are looking at reducing operational cause by twenty
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percent. Okay, we can't say
they have a project on this. We
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can say this or that, because
we kind of information flewing from one clients
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to the other. But the other
arcing intelligence, which is checked by your
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quality team, will then go into
the system, which means that if you
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are, if your colleague done with
working in another states is kind of targetting
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the same accounts, but for another
company, that twenty percent increase of productivity
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or efficiency, they will get the
pop up saying that company has en.
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You'll talk, get pleased. I'm
looking after that and basically, do you
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have a very proposition at he's renivant
to that, to that. So social
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indisions at the base, mount to
tennancy, crm and basically two aldred and
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fifty people that are cleansing our data
everyday worldwide, which are the people do
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the job. Wow, okay.
So, and I'm going to connect you
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with Ido because it is good.
He's amazing. So you know it sounds
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like you got it all figured out, but you can always always use some
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more. So, Ray, thank
you again. Thank you for supporting the
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survey. Everybody, go to the
booth, grab the survey, talk to
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operatics and next up James Barton,
who is an amazing sales development leader in
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the cyber security space. Right you
should. You should jump into this next
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00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:59.720
one. Look he's going to talk
about I mean he's been going up through
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the ranks to run a huge sales
development programs and he's going to share his
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five pearls of wisdom with us for
sales development leadership. Ray, thank you
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so much for jumping on and we'll
see you next talk. Absolutely pleasure.
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Thank you, David. You've been
listening to be tob read the new acceleration.
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00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:22.319
To ensure that you never miss an
episode, subscribe to the show in
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00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:26.519
your favorite podcast player. Thank you
so much for listening. Until next time,
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