Episode Transcript
WEBVTT
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You're listening to be to be revenue
acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping software
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executives stay on the cutting edge of
sales and marketing in their industry. Let's
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get into the show. This podcast
is sponsored by Gong. Gong empowers your
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entire go to market your organization by
Operationalizing Your Most Valuable Asset, your customer
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interactions. Transform your organization into a
revenue machine, or unlocking reality and helping
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your people reach their full potential.
Get started now at Gong dot Io.
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Hi, welcome to be a review
acceleration. My name is and I'm here
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today with Holie Whitfield, growth marketer
Adventu less stuft. How are you doing
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today? All the better for being
here a nice nice to spend some time
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with you and speak about some code
emails over it today. Are you doing
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abso luckily? Yeah, I mean
the email in the toolboxes is a subject
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of controversy. So looking forward to
discussing with you and discussing some of the
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technique and everything. But before we
get going, you would you mind just
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giving a little bit of a gable
to yourself and the company you representsoft yeah,
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so I've always worked in sales technology
companies for some reason. I'm not
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sure exactly why, but with that
you get to learn a little bit about
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cold calling, about cold email,
about social media, outreaching, all those
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things. And I was a salesperson
once upon a time, so I have
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done a bit of this stuff.
And the topic we're going to speak about
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later on it it did start many
years ago. I started off as an
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str I completely freestyled everything. I
had no road map, I had no
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templates, I had no frameworks,
I had no proper framework structure to anything
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I did, whether that be reaching
out, whether that be to the phone
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call, the sales process, that
anything. I just did it and sort
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of really learned the hard way,
because you had to when you literally have
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nothing. And at one point I
thought to myself, like I'm writing what
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I thought was quite a good email, very personalized, to a few prospects
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a day, but I was really
mixing up I calls to Action, I
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was mixing up certain parts of the
email which should be their own thing and
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and really the results weren't as good
as I was hoping. I didn't get
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upset about it. I thought,
you know, I'm starting. Is there
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I need to implumence something to help
me make this repeatable, and that's when
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I stumbled a from a boss across, I should say, frameworks. So
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that's where we got to and the
company, obviously my company, and other
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software sales engagement platform. And obviously, if you know what that means,
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you know that that helps sales represent
their cold emails, it helps them stick
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to their cadence, it helps them
follow our pails and do their cold calling.
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So very applicable to my team.
And we spent a lot of time
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looking at our emails and core scripts. So pretty well versed in that at
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this point now. Yeah, well, I remember the days were starting as
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well as a video. Yeah,
and I was pretty much in the symboled
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as you here. Is really stuff
contact to go after. I mean,
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in fact, back in the day
Linkedin didn't exist and for the CRM system
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we had to use like a c
Dr Own, you know that you would
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put in down like it was all
cool, but you had to install it
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on your motion and everybody. So
back in the days, yell know,
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pages and and if you go and
start to to to call people, and
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many emails were horrendous. You know. I've been looking at some of them.
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Maybe a few years later and they
were like super along. I want
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you to tell everything to the prospect. You know all my life all the
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all the functionalities. Leyn't realize how
it works at all. So very much
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looking forward to the conversation today.
Well, well, let's get cracking ready.
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I mean everybody knows what email is. I think people have different perspective
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on the effectiveness of emales, which
is always take with a pinch of salt,
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because obviously he won't as every single
tool. If you don't use it
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effectively, your Hon't get great results. So as we get started, could
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you please share with us some too
and don'ts of email outreach? Yeah,
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so it's it's funny that you say
that people have different opinions on that.
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I recorded a web but or not
very long ago, with Devin Rade from
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Gong and he he went through some
of the research that he and his team
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have done about a call to actions
and just generally speaking, what is the
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performance of email inside of a deal
and as a complete cold outreach touch,
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and a lot of the feedback he
got on that content, just as as
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an article on their website, very
polarizing. So some people treat it as
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the silver bullet. They believe what
is Said Is Gospel. They go with
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that and it's fact. And then
some people they just question it to the
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end of the earth. Is this
about the right job titles, right industries,
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locations, all of it. So, so it really has append there's
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a lot of, you know,
a lot of variables to all of this.
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So that's the that's the fun thing. You kind of have to take
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it and apply it to your own
situation as best you can. But,
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dudes, I like brevity in my
emails, so that means I don't like
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a big essay. Interestingly, though, again, I do a lot of
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webinars. So I had a couple
of top tier experts in my opinion,
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Sam McKenna and Carl Common, had
them email me and we went through it
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on a Webinar and we and we
broke down what did they do, why
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did they do it? I had
the chat raide them and that kind of
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stuff. It was a close one, very close, but their emails were
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actually quite long and I thought that's
really interesting because I normally like and normally,
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I don't know about you, when
you when you're going through Linkedin,
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when you're reading stuff about cold event, it's normally. Normally you hear shorter,
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the better. Within reason. Obviously
you don't want two words, but
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normally you hear something like that.
And their emails as experts very, very
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personalized, and the court to Action
was very unique to me, and even
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the bridge between court to Action and
the trigger events that that was very personalized
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to me. But it was quite
long and I thought, well, that
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that's interesting. So so a bit
of a mix. What what I'm getting
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out there is I like brevity,
but they did that style. So what
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I'm saying in a sense is your
first email, for example, you're never
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going to just send one to leave
it, try something and your next one
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do it different. So don't go
like four or five emails in a row
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they're all very long. Mix it
up. So you could have a short
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one, a long one, then
the next one could have a video,
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the next one curves something else.
So a bit of variables. That that's
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a good D and they don't obviously
going very long. So all the close
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did an analysis. One of the
first things I did in this job.
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We looked at over six thousand cold
emails said using our platform. The longest
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one, if I remember, was
six thousand words. In the body,
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which is eight percent of the second
Harry Potter novel in length. If,
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if you believe that's that, and
the subject I was fifty two words.
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So obviously things like that, when
you're going way outside of what is what
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you have ever seen in your own
inbox, that's just not going to do
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it. But a bit of an
extreme example. But yeah, going too
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long. Make make sure nothing gets
read. And my pet peeve, I'll
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say this one then I'll stop grambling
pet peeves. Bullet points in emails.
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You've probably seen that Brazilian times,
just like I have. If I'm trying
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to follow up, this is what
I always go wrong. I normally use
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too much of my information first.
So if I'm going to go with four,
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four pain points I want to hit
you with, if I list all
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four of them, what have I
got to say after that? I've used
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all of it. So if I
just kill the world, want to talk
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about the first one, and then
I saved the next three and I write
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my emails regarding them separately, I've
got four emails, or maybe four or
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five emails and four or five calls
and Linkedin touches and so on and so
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forth. Instead I've just thrown it
all in the wall. One email bullet
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points. No one reads them,
it's gone. That's that's my big one
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at the moment. So, Shaman, we've found a good at pointing emails.
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So I've been. I may have
too. I may have to refi
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my strategically. Do you think there
is a difference between North America and Europe
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in Tilm of what prospect like or
responsetraight to different type of Emaales? You
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know, the reason why I'm skining
is because do you remember it was a
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tactic maybe two or three years ago, where people would just put blank at
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the beginning of emails you had nohing, and then they would stop saying hey,
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and then you have to scroll down
the gate. I find it extremely
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on the in and and and actually, you know, I do like an
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email that you're authentic, going to
the point, you've done your research,
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you are shocked and you tell me
what you do, you tell me what
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you want. Tell me that you
want a meeting with me to discuss what
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and what I would get out of
it, and give me two times.
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Make It easy for me to book
it right that. That's what I would
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prefer as a prospect myself, but
I was recently. The cements were like
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extremely long and some of my guys
in the US use that type of Fimil
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and actually found a lot of success. Right. It's like the Linkedin Post
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that you've got one sentence and I
was all sentence on the list as a
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sentence to the list. It seems
to be working and I don't really understand
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why. But do you think that
there is a fundamental difference term of expectations
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or pressference depending on where you are? US, US Europe? This might
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be controversial, so call me out. Okay, I think a little bit
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that you the UK, speaking from
from the UK, and Europe is a
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little bit behind North America. They
have a little bit more technology. There's
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so many more companies over there that
are very SAS centric and all that sort
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of stuff. Over here, I
can name on my on one hand number
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of Saas companies that I actually know. So that maybe that's just me,
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but but that bubble effects that that
really makes the US. I don't know
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what it is. I feel like
there's a bit of an Echo Chamber and
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all of the advice and the best
practices that they know and that they actually
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developed sometimes and they're implementing across all
of these companies. I feel like you
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see it a lot more and it's
a lot more cutting edge and a lot
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more up to the minute in terms
of best practice, whereas over over in
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Europe police, what I have seen
just my personal lens, we try and
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use best practices. Absolutely definitely try
and do that. We're always trying to
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improve. We're just a fraction behind
some of the stuff that they're doing,
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and sometimes that's because, let's say, a lagged market in the US.
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If I'm selling to into like a
laggered market and they don't do email,
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I might cold call them and a
very standard, basic cold call might just
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be the best way to do it. And you and you treat it as
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number escape. That might be the
way over and over. In Europe that
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might be a bit more of the
case, whereas in the US that might
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just be a couple of markets or
some in particular. But the rest,
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it seems like, or at least
I'm perceiving, you've got to be a
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bit more clever and a bit more
advanced than you know. I think things
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are a lot more in that regard. So so what do you think?
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Are you saying differently all the same. Yeah, I mean I'm seeing different
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tactics. You know, the textiqus
that have worked and I think we are,
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you know, dose tactics general all
the time. I was speaking to
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someone about linkedin voice. Notes to
linkedin voice was pretty cool. PS covid
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you would get people prospects. You
will send the voice to a prospect.
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The reason why it's cool is because
you need to do it on your on
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your phone. So if you are
in a cold center and you are,
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you know, in a sequence without
treach and stuff like that, potentially you
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may not be able to take your
phone, go into the APP find really
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and leaving the voice. But they
were pretty good because if you're if it's
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the first voice to curiasive, it's
like the first video curacived, for the
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first video is said, what is
that? Let's have a look. So
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at least you get the open rate
and then, by the way, we
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have to come back to the subject
line and remind me to get back to
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that. But I think you get
the open rate. I think I'm scenical
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because I'm in the industry and our
right in the semis and we're looking at
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the tactics. I think it would
be useful to get the lengths of a
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prospect. I do agree with you. I think the US are probably a
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little bit more advanced, but also
think that the US is also much more
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spammy than we are here in Europe
and the prospect probably gets far more less
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qualitative interaction. And that lead me
to believe you know, when there is
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when there is an element of spam
or volume or whatever, technology is overused,
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and what I've seen in my lifetime
of our technology being over used that
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people go back to the bloody basic. The bloody basic is a one structured
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email that is smart and this is
basically what I would send one of our
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professional at my level. That I
respect that at the time to research and
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I will try to be pertinent and
I will be on bolding the fact.
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Look, I'm trying to be pertinent, but I don't know if I've got
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it. But I believe that you've
got to those issues right because I've been
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compodies in your situation or individual I
C P in your situation suffering from the
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same issues and we've got a really
good way to solve it. So I
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agree with you that I would probably
not put that into an email, but
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but that's how I feel about the
US right now. I think everybody is
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trying to be too smart sometimes,
and when I've got the opportunity to speak
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to prospect they don't want smart.
They was okay, you've got a product.
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You're clearly trying to get some of
my time. Right, help me
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what I'm trying to do. I'm
trying to put you on the map.
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What exactly do you do and what
makes you unique? That's the other people
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who do something similar out to you, and you've got to be able to
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articulate that relatively when and quick Lee. And that's the difficulty, I think
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of writing an email. The difficulty
of writing an email is how can you
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succactly summarize of every proposition? And
then I like your idea of cutting it
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down so longer and need answer to
your question. But I think when I
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look at the emails and all the
different taxic and I get into conversation,
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of course some of them will work
and someone, someone will smile because they
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got hey, I got a coffee
about show whatever attached to the email or
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your there is a caddle link,
so I can go ahead pick up something
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I was five years ago and I
start cool Aymore. You know, you
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have some cool sign that show you've
got lots of things that you can do
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to make it a bit different from
a look perspective. But at the end
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of the day, when, when, when I have conversation with syllable people
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or of decision makers, they want
efficiency. They don't want personalization, they
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want pertinence. You know, they
don't care about the page you went to
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the same university, or you should
put the same soccer or football or baseball
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team as them, or you know, I get tons of things that people
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saying, Oh, yeah, your
last podcast was fantastic. Right, I
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didn't really listen to that. No, but they just, you know,
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they just obviously traded to get my
ego going, which is one of the
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tactics. So I think you need
to have people who receive a lot of
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females to probably teach people who want
to send emails how to do it.
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And when you reach from the prospect, my feedback and never left it,
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but partually North America will have been
part of like prospect, but or recently
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on the topic is just be pertinent. Just just tell us what you want
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and give me the option to say
yes or no and in a way get
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to the point, but you might
not work in on markets if you go
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two or three other down and you're
trying to get a meeting with an influencer.
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Maybe that cool email with you know, like that new technique that you've
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got on Linkedin, on whatever training
platform, may work, but end of
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the day, solid subject, two
people open it and then solid open here.
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I'm research. I've researched too.
You are not. It's not an
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automated demail. Have that. Do
it with thousands of people. Is Pretend
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in the way. And then I
tried to be pertinent by by making epothesis
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of pain that you are facing based
on result that I've done, and I
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try to tease you is how we
solve it. And and and that's that's
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how I would go about it,
based on the feedback I received. And
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actually I will do that work.
But that makes sound a little bit all
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school, you know, but it's
for me. That's what works. And
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when I sent my emails I get
a good response raight but I would not
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send an email to someone I'm not
convinced we're ready. Then not response.
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So I need to convince myself that
I'm like a box. Are Going on
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the ring or the M fighter.
I'm not gonna God. I'm thinking I'm
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gonna get destroyed. I'M gonna go, I'm gonna Only God. I think
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I've really a good chance to do
it, which I think is also important,
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and that's what all the preparation for
me of that email. But it's
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not just email, it's your whole
sequence. You know the email is when
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doing so, if you're prepelled,
you're can cool, you pre do,
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you propere fily everything, but that
preparation is really key and d you are
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actually going in the organization. Yeah, you're actually going. Some of deal
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value. The more important that is. Well, it's funny you say that
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you treat it like going into a
boxing ring. Would you get into the
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ring with that person if they were
going to destroy you? Obviously you would
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not. What I've been trying to
do with our sales reps, particularly for
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some of our best target accounts,
are a B M list. We're writing
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emails on the level of that.
You're you're almost asking why on earth do
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we not work together? Yet we're
finding those ones where it makes it that
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much sense. Then it's just easy. It's like a normal email between colleagues.
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Instead of a cold email, whereas
I feel like the cold email,
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you're you're in a different mindset.
You're you're like trying, you're actually really
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trying to convince and you're you're doing
it so intentionally, whereas when you're just
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emailing a colleague because it's a task, you're just doing it and it happens.
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We're trying to treat it a bit
more like that. If we have
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and we can find that much reasoning, that makes so much sense, it's
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gonna work value. You're not interrupting. I'm not interrupting all this day,
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when all your is that email,
no matter if you respond to me or
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not, is interested in my meeting
or not, is going to be.
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Oh Wow, okay, that's interesting. I have information to give you.
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I've got educational content. Not contacted, would attached, but I will put
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something in there that it needs to
be of value to you. You know
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what I mean. So I'm not
interrupting your day too try to sell you
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something. I am giving you value. I'm actually enpy you to realize that
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there is something available that I could
do fantastically well for you, potentially in
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your organization. So that's reframing of
helping versus just being an entrance is very
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big, because it's it's like it's
like spots psychology. I mean, if
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you go back to the boxing things, you you need to reframe to a
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positive value of what you are doing. That's just Ah. You know that
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gave with resiversign. But then,
you know, for me the worst is
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the people who are blessing. I
received emails from my competitors asking me if
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I need the paper generation and support
two grammy business and that that's a big
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no no. You know, when
they take at least and they're just like
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blast. That's where I don't get. So you you, we we kind
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of spoke about demail structure from my
perspective. Okay, maybe I shouldn't let
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you go first. Well, what's? What's? How is your perspective difference
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from my? Dame of the structure? You would like to use it,
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and I appreciate what you're saying.
Or is that you may have differenttimated the
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block right, so you may probot
them in a different work. But what?
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How? How would you structure them
in the best possible way? So
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what what I went and did?
Anyone could do this. So I don't
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proclaim that it's my own. I
went on to Google and I went for
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cold email frameworks just so that I
could help myself right to a consistent framework,
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let's say framework. Don't think about
template. Template is High Ali,
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I noticed that you are the growth
marketer out for the littlestoft. Do you
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have a podcast insert my company about
when can we meet? Calendar link.
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That is not a framework. That's
just a crap. Email. Framework is
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something like what to say in which
sentence order and then, basically, like
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if I could draw without using words, what would the email look like?
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So, for example, Josh Braun, but probably somebody you've seen on Linkedin
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that I follow him, he's got
his own framework and it's called the t
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t t t t email and that
is the trigger event, third party validation.
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Teach me and tell me, and
that's him trying to tell you how
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to write the email. So do
you begin with your trigger event? Your
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Second Party is your third party validation, and so on. Those are all
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on separate lines and that is how
he writes his emails. Why I do
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that? And I've I've subconsciously become
quite good at just doing that format.
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anyways, now, because I've I've
spoken about it a lot and I think
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it's a good one. Why he
does that is often we're just like freestyle.
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We just think right, I'm reaching
out to them because reason and I
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want this, and I noticed that. Jumble it all together and it becomes
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a really jarring, not well flowing
email, and that's what I used to
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do in my early days. I
used to go something like Hey, I
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love your podcast and I saw that
you have this thing and also I'm doing
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that thing too, and we we
had that same guest on and also we
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do this and what we meet and
the prospect is probably very confused and it's
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too much. It's not in a
bright order, not a great email.
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So the point of a framework is
not to tell you how to write,
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is to tell you kind of what
to write, but in a way that
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will actually work better than you just
throwing something it's it's being conscious and not
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unconsciously throwing something up just because the
amount of times that we do this,
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we especially if you're personalizing stuff very
well or if you're finding a lot of
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good research to make it relevant,
you will have to structure it a little
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bit differently. You will have to
change what you say. It's employ is
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just kind of Oh, instead of
your hiring three people, oh this account
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they're hiring severn, so I'll change
that work. That's not really doing anything
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different. So so I just started
to look for those. So there's plenty
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of them. So I said,
Josh Braun's, that's one. There's Aida,
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which is a I d a.
that's a very well known copyrighting one.
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So if you've ever seen a billboard, which I bear you how,
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you have seen an Aida Billboard.
That is how they write copy. If
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you've ever seen it added a newspaper. Sometimes they use ada to write that,
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and it's basically attention, interest desiring
action. There's normally a big attention
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grabber at the top of any billboards. Then there's an action in the bottom
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right corner somewhere something like that.
That's one. There's there's problem, agitate,
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solution, obviously B and a and
s that there's be a b before
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after bridge. That's probably when you
get a lot. I'm getting a lot
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of those at the moment. I
got a few of them, but just
337
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just right into a framework I always
find really helps me out. So I
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don't think I answers your question very
well there. Did I no, no,
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you did. I mean, you
know, the difficulty of the question
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is to depend on who you are
targeting. All right, if you're targeting
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I think it sounds the CFO.
You may want to have a different ton
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of female if you're interacting with a
sill level person versus a deputy of a
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deputy of a deputy person. If
you're saying something for Five K, they
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are are virsuits three million a r? And also it depends on the multi
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buying personal potential journey, the complexity
of the deal. You know, are
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you disruptive? Are you a commodity? Al Right, so, are you
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bringing something new to the market and
people may want one, but they will
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be looking at each other and so, okay, with's paying for it?
349
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L suits? Well, you know, I've got one, so do I
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need to replace it? I think
the tone of female. I agree with
351
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you. I think there are lots
of things that are available. There is
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lots of frameworks. I think thinking
that there's a silver bullet is not right.
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In fact, I think what has
worked for me is priority to take
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different methodology and kind of mixed them
up together and try to come up with
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something that kind of bring, you
know, meeting back home but the the
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things that I know that when I
present to a good email, I know
357
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it's a good email, and you
know that if you send a good email,
358
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your response rate will be high.
And what I'm saying hi is pretty
359
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much, you know, around twenty
if it's done properly, if you crave
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them properly, if you spend the
time to not just do the lazy stuff
361
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of or you are looking on servees, Nlegat or class doom the people that
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are recruiting or whatever, and I
try to be Smad, basically all you
363
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are based in Montreal. Well,
guess what, I've got an oncle living
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00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:30.599
there. This is fantastic. Now
we have friends, let's get a bitting
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together. I think we need to
do a little bit more than that.
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And and and I believe that prospect
also appreciate the fire that you can't make
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hypothesis of their pains. You know
also, and particularly as you are going
368
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disruptive. I think that's that's important, because you're almost trying to tell them
369
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in the best polite way, that
there is a better way to do something
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they already doing. Okay, so
it's it's really about this is what I
371
00:23:56.279 --> 00:24:00.279
see in the market Oh, this
is what we've been we really days and
372
00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:04.960
this is what all dwards with the
new aren't so all those things, depending
373
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on what you are saying, I
think, would dictate a different structure and
374
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I don't think there is one sage
fits sour. So I do agree with
375
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you. I think people need to
look at what's available. You need to
376
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:19.799
play, you need to experiment,
you need to measure and then try to
377
00:24:19.960 --> 00:24:26.359
replicate what's successful. Basically, so
something you said that I now actually need
378
00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:30.839
to take my notes and throw them
away. We do them because the five
379
00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:36.039
frameworks that my team normally rights to
the our five favorites, picking some out
380
00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:40.119
of the Internet that we liked.
We try and mix up our cadences to
381
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right to various ones of these frameworks
throughout that as I said, basically we
382
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don't want to write the exact same
thing ten times because it's obvious no one
383
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:49.480
cares and if you don't like it
the first time, you're probably not gonna
384
00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:53.359
like it on the night. We
mix it out. But let's say,
385
00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:57.240
for example, my my p a
s problem, agitated solution, just like
386
00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:04.160
you said, champion level, probably
could work. Big CEO, huge company.
387
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:10.960
You will not sell them a problem
that they have and maybe they don't
388
00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:12.480
know that they have it. That's
your that's your weight it, but you're
389
00:25:12.519 --> 00:25:15.480
not really going to agitate it and
you're not going to tell the something that
390
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:18.960
they don't know so much. So
probably, like you said there, I
391
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:23.359
think that's a that's one problem with
frameworks. Actually, I have not thought
392
00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:27.160
about it until just now, but
you can write any template, any framework
393
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the one, but it has the
bent. So so, as I was
394
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saying, problem agitate solution champion version
is very different to problem agitate solution decision
395
00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:41.680
maker version a big company. But
just to pick two different ferries, sort
396
00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:44.279
of the same thing there. So
yeah, so, yeah, definitely,
397
00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:48.480
like even using a trigger event,
the trigger event obviously could very much change
398
00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:52.119
dependent on role and type of company
and what actually has happened in that in
399
00:25:52.160 --> 00:25:55.799
that company or market. I would
never say to you that you're hiring two
400
00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:59.880
SDRs because maybe you're not involved in
that adult. Maybe it would be some
401
00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:03.759
that like help spot data tells me
that meetings and now being more by co
402
00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:07.359
calling than email this week. Right. If that's true, maybe maybe you
403
00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:11.400
would care more about that. Do
you know? It's those things the best
404
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:15.039
triggered I've seen rearly was been working
again and I'm thinking very about when the
405
00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:18.640
Explo and C I. We we
tried to, because we've got to framework
406
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:22.839
and we work with our clients and
all that. But and you need to
407
00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:26.319
be able to do it. When
I was a Bidr, I used to
408
00:26:26.599 --> 00:26:32.160
love having conversation with my as so
and they would tell me about all the
409
00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:36.200
meetings they are going to it.
Back then I was I was working the
410
00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:38.720
French market. So, you know, I would be working with an a
411
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:42.000
and it would come back and say, Oh wow, I got that meeting
412
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:47.119
with BNP Pariba. I met with
the CIS group and you know, I
413
00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:51.480
realized a doubt sourcing everything to I
D m. But so so we wanted
414
00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:53.880
to go with that angle and when
we go to the meeting we realized that
415
00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:59.000
actually, that problem is that and
I'm like this is called does man,
416
00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:03.079
because that's my reger. I'M gonna
go to all the people and can I
417
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:06.000
use the world? You know you
can. I mean you can just say
418
00:27:06.039 --> 00:27:07.720
what. We've been speaking with one
of the big one of the Big Five
419
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:14.200
Bank and the conversation we were completely
wrong. We wanted to go and tell
420
00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:15.880
them about this and that, which
is traditionally what we've been doing. But
421
00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:19.799
what we realized? We realized that
the big part of the infrastructure was being
422
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:23.519
outsourced and the real issue was the
human kept. It all around that and
423
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:26.880
what's happening with people, and this
is how we can help around that.
424
00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:30.880
And I know that you've got responded
to my previous notes, but that just
425
00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:37.200
and the number of people who are
responding to okay, now you're at my
426
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:41.359
level, you're speaking to people like
me. You really do it. It's
427
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:45.200
that's really what good from my perspective, as a trigger. That's always been
428
00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:49.000
the trigger that works the best for
me. Is I just realized something else.
429
00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:55.119
I'll just realise something that told you
with someone in your industry that kind
430
00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:59.359
of compete with you and this is
the issue that they're facing. And you
431
00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:02.599
may at a meeting because they want
to know what's going on done there.
432
00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:06.960
And you know, everybody looks a
little bit of their competitor and they may
433
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:08.200
say, well, I may meet
with Ali to Ondersand what they're doing,
434
00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:11.079
because we're thinking about our team.
So you may not get the meeting for
435
00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:17.480
the right reason, but there is
a sort of follower like ship. What
436
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:19.839
this guy is the way. You
know, can we spend falterious to discuss
437
00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:22.480
about it and how use of that
problem? Because if you can solve the
438
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:26.319
prime for those guys and you're having
meeting with them to solve their poem,
439
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:29.960
maybe you can serve mine as well. So it's always been a good trigger
440
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:33.759
for me too, all the bd
deal and listening to us to really create
441
00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:37.200
a relationship with d a s and
not just get feedback on the meeting you
442
00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:41.319
said for them, but all the
world stories and use those world stories.
443
00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:45.680
People like to be told the story. I believe I want to ask you
444
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:48.960
something. So I've had the spoken
about quite a lot similar to what you're
445
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:52.400
saying. Yeah, but not not
about what the accounting is active or your
446
00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:56.200
colleagues have been able to find out
what the prospect is, what you've been
447
00:28:56.200 --> 00:29:00.039
able to find out yourself speaking to
other people in that account. So I
448
00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:03.519
say I want to call you write. What happens? What would you say
449
00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:07.079
if I'm if I find out a
couple of things from your str team,
450
00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:11.000
just picking something up and I noticed
there's a B and c going on,
451
00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:14.759
whatever it might be, and then
I email you and I call you,
452
00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:17.759
go through my kids with you and
I say, look, I just want
453
00:29:17.799 --> 00:29:21.559
to let you know about one,
two and three things that that your team
454
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:25.319
have been expressing. And obviously it's
not really bad like that. They think
455
00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:27.680
you're terrible and the company sucks.
It's nothing like that. It's just stuff
456
00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:32.119
to improve a bond which you would
care about. You do you take that?
457
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:34.200
Because I've heard this spoken about quite
a lot. I think it's very
458
00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:37.000
difficult to do it in the right
way. You don't really want to be
459
00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:41.599
digging up there and be seen to
sort of try and find the headline,
460
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:44.160
because that's not it. But I
think it can be used. I think
461
00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:48.599
a meeting every day with someone would
just even if you start, I would
462
00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:52.599
ruse or no, I mean I
woke up every day to the better company
463
00:29:52.119 --> 00:29:56.000
so and and, as the company
is growing, trust me, keeping you
464
00:29:56.039 --> 00:30:00.559
off your eyes on the D D
is difficult, you know, and we
465
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:03.240
are trying to to do it,
but you you're kind of building a plane
466
00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:07.920
or making a plane better or when
you are in the air, so sometimes
467
00:30:07.960 --> 00:30:11.319
you've got issues and you've got to
deal with it. And also we're managing
468
00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:15.039
people. So that for me is
is a great trigger. We tried it
469
00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:18.440
for selfully so I don't think it's
just me, because we tried it for
470
00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:22.039
our self and one of the videos
we would do is to put an inquiries
471
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:26.759
through a company we want to get
in touch with and we basically don't get
472
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:32.279
followed up for three days and then
we would send an email to getting sent
473
00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:37.319
and say look, as an inquiries
to the other to your three competitors,
474
00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:38.960
and here is the response time from
the other. You clearly have an issue
475
00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:44.640
here. People won't buy your stuff. People hated it right. We had
476
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:48.559
some very bad feedback. I had
some CEO emailing me and stuff like that,
477
00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:52.960
and I find it bizzare because I
believe that self, a oneness is
478
00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:56.799
number one quality of leadership and it
doesn't mean that you've got to get phrases
479
00:30:56.839 --> 00:31:00.880
all the time right. I would
actually respond better to you if you point
480
00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:03.960
out issues in the business. Also, as you telling me. Oh what
481
00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:10.960
you really is fantastic, because I
think you are helping me if you are
482
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:14.920
doing me to improve or if you're
trying to go to a subject matter to
483
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:18.279
sublute that improve me helped me to
improve. That's just, you know,
484
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:22.680
Brown nosing or you know, I
don't need to be told that you know,
485
00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:25.759
it's just like you always look fantastic
from the outside. You know when
486
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:26.799
you are inside, you know what's
going on, you know what you're working
487
00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:32.440
on. It never stops. So
I think for me early that technique would
488
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:36.680
work really well, but I've seen
some people not feeling as good about it
489
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:41.160
because you cannot expose something that's not
working and it defends mechanism comes in and
490
00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:48.319
yeah, I've had if people send
us a bad email, we we retaliate
491
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:52.039
with our own email. Love retality
as such, like it's a way I
492
00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:53.640
agree or anything, but we try
and say, look like there's a better
493
00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:57.160
way, we can help you with
this and that and so on. Yeah,
494
00:31:57.279 --> 00:32:00.279
same thing, and you would have
thought and it's trying to help you
495
00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:04.720
sell. But yeah, what's not
to like there? Well, I think
496
00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:07.000
it's like you said, there's a
bit of Friday that comes up and it's
497
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:10.599
hold on, don't point the finger
at me, and I get that quite
498
00:32:10.599 --> 00:32:14.480
a bit in our emails too.
Sometimes that the ones that I receive.
499
00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:19.119
It's they're trying to do FOMO.
They're trying to say marketing teams, like
500
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:22.480
you haven't thought about this thing yet, and it's almost like we've missed out
501
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:25.720
we're stupid. One Way to upset
me is to make me feel stupid,
502
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:30.440
so that one never works. But
but if it's like you're showing me something
503
00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:35.240
new that not everyone knows and it's
not just me that's missing out, it's
504
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:37.880
different that it's such a subtle difference. But yeah, I have tried that
505
00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:42.240
whole Um and I've actually done the
one that you said to where you go
506
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:45.079
through their inquiry system, never hear
back and then you say look, that's
507
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:51.960
broken. What's going on? Yeah, and it's it's absolutely mad that you've
508
00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:54.359
got to send our marketing need or
just saying to you will leave me alone.
509
00:32:54.759 --> 00:32:58.039
Your Business Are you know? We
don't. We would never work with
510
00:32:58.079 --> 00:33:00.440
a company. Lad You so well. If I was in their shoes,
511
00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:02.640
I would say it's okay, well, okay, good. Thank you,
512
00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:06.559
well done, because I didn't see
that. I didn't put an inquiry myself
513
00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:08.400
and you got me there. I'm
feeling a little bit of shame, you
514
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:10.200
know, I would. I would. You know, you feel a little
515
00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:14.559
bit of shame that they actually you
get somewhat smarter, that done something and
516
00:33:14.680 --> 00:33:17.680
just realize something is that working?
At least give them the time to explain
517
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:21.519
what they could do, because even
if you don't want to buy their stuff,
518
00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:23.640
you could get some best practices and
it could help you to steer the
519
00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:30.759
shape. But sanks for wellness and
accountability is there are two of the value
520
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:34.160
that we we have to define what, what, what a good person needs
521
00:33:34.279 --> 00:33:37.920
to poetics and the people that we
developed. Some people don't have it,
522
00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:39.519
some people don't like to have it
and you know, you get them on
523
00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:42.759
the bad day, they've got some
bigger issue. They think it's not a
524
00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:45.599
big issue. But put yourself in
the shues of the prospect right, if
525
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:49.519
I put an inquiry to any ourself, then all your completitors, they can
526
00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:52.160
tell you something. The person that's
respond to me the first, and maybe
527
00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:55.880
it's because I work in the industry
and like that, but the one that's
528
00:33:55.920 --> 00:33:59.960
respond to me the first and give
me the best explience in the search process
529
00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:02.200
are likely to get made. But
you don't know, right they're like they're
530
00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:07.599
likely to get my bugrself there.
So I don't know. I think everybody
531
00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:09.280
is different. But with your technique, and by the way, if you
532
00:34:09.320 --> 00:34:13.239
know anything about the proticts, of
mentioned that on the podcast now. But
533
00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:15.480
as we don't just give me on
the thing that they need to know and
534
00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:20.400
get fixed. But because there are
enquiry system I confromise you I'll be reaching
535
00:34:20.440 --> 00:34:22.599
out and we'll put them or I'll
be on you within a minute. Yeah,
536
00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:25.159
we should try that on these shows, you know, every month and
537
00:34:25.239 --> 00:34:29.519
we keep, we keep, we
keep touching to make sure that now that
538
00:34:29.639 --> 00:34:34.280
you have different names. So we
don't know absolutely you're coming back to we
539
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:37.119
discussed earlier on about the subject line. I just want to come back to
540
00:34:37.159 --> 00:34:38.920
that very briefly. I mean,
I think there is a lot of bad
541
00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:43.239
quality here. Against someone sending an
email from the first time ever, do
542
00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:47.239
w youtube points and you know,
like the forwarding you something which that's very
543
00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:52.639
much starting the relationship on the bed. You basically start engaging with me by
544
00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:57.039
laying to me or trying to manipulate
me. I don't like it. So
545
00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:00.320
so there are lots of things like
that going on. People putting something words
546
00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:05.159
drastic pency to get you to a
band and you've got nothing insight. What
547
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:10.320
are your advision creating a competing subject
link? This is one where, if
548
00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:15.800
if I say the words about subject
line, words lengths, like don't have
549
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:17.599
a very, very long subject line, people just say yeah, I know
550
00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:22.239
that, but because we all do. But my stats show that works.
551
00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:25.000
So it was very close between what
would work best. Two words, three
552
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:29.880
words and forwards. I wish I
could have gone into this much detail,
553
00:35:29.960 --> 00:35:34.360
but I have a strong theory that
the ones that had four words, they
554
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:37.360
were small words. They weren't big
long words of like ten letters each.
555
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:42.199
And the reason is, and we
measured that by open rate and reply rate,
556
00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:45.719
so across both of those metrics,
those lengths of subject lines did work
557
00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:51.000
better on our analysis. That's because
I believe with that. Let's say I've
558
00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:53.360
got two words in my subject line
and it's your podcast, just picking something
559
00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:58.280
up. That's not that long.
You in your Gmail, you will definitely
560
00:35:58.360 --> 00:36:01.719
see at least all five, six, seven, maybe eight words of my
561
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:06.159
initial email. After that, before
you open it, I called a preview
562
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:08.039
text that everyone speaks about it now
so that it's the new thing. If
563
00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:13.880
I've got decent relevance impersonization in their
email, you've got like a double wireme
564
00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:16.079
that you can see your podcast is
a subject line. You can tell what
565
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:20.159
it's about, but it's not really
detailed that you don't need to open it
566
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:22.920
and you've got a bit more of
the preview into what's going to happen.
567
00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:27.719
So then you will probably open it. So that's good. But, like
568
00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:30.159
I was saying about the Webinar that
we did a while ago, so I
569
00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:35.119
had the two experts email me.
Their subject lines pretty long. So I
570
00:36:35.199 --> 00:36:37.159
thought, hold on a second.
Everyone talks about how you've got to have
571
00:36:37.239 --> 00:36:40.079
a short subject line, how it's
got to be very crisp to three four
572
00:36:40.119 --> 00:36:45.559
words, but there's was six and
seven what they were doing and why it
573
00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:47.400
worked for me and it was very
personalized to me. So again, this
574
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:52.360
doesn't really work on just a but
two thousand people in a cadence and let
575
00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:54.559
it go. They were doing stuff, like one of them said, the
576
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:58.519
river Medway, which is literally I
can see it out my window right there.
577
00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:01.840
It's the it's the medway river in
my town and guarantee you I've never
578
00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:06.239
had an email about that ever before. A little bit of novelty, and
579
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:08.079
he had a couple of other words
on the end of the subject line,
580
00:37:08.599 --> 00:37:14.639
but with that one it did stand
out for obvious reasons. It's clearly only
581
00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:16.840
me is getting is going to get
that one. So that one was one
582
00:37:17.079 --> 00:37:21.400
the other one. So Sam uses
her own the little man, show me,
583
00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:23.840
you know me. So in that
one she picks out three things,
584
00:37:24.280 --> 00:37:28.639
and I quite like this one.
But it can go wrong if you get
585
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:32.559
random things. For example, she's
picking out things that are totally unrelated to
586
00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:37.199
each other about me. So it
could be she has a mutual connection with
587
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:39.960
me. So she might name them
and then it might be a recent event
588
00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:44.000
which I did. So so we
did a virtual conference and it was called
589
00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:46.960
Giver Con. So it's the person
that we both know, and then comma,
590
00:37:47.559 --> 00:37:52.400
then give a con comma, and
then something else that she's also found.
591
00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:55.199
It could be sometimes people do their
own company names. Sometimes it's like
592
00:37:55.840 --> 00:38:00.000
linkedin post or whatever it is.
But do you then put to to explain
593
00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:02.760
that? That said, I wants
to grab your attention, so you know,
594
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:06.960
and now you are already here.
Is what I want to drop some
595
00:38:07.239 --> 00:38:09.159
because I guess you've got to explain
what you do these things. Say.
596
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:14.519
How do how do you go about
the first paragraph then now, or do
597
00:38:14.599 --> 00:38:16.840
you just do that and then you
go straight into your your your your very
598
00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:21.239
problem in the in the body,
in their emails. That was what their
599
00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:24.880
first bit was. So their first
sentence, or so that was. Yes,
600
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:30.880
so the river medway one UM.
He used some contexts about saying years
601
00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:35.559
ago the river medway was the only
way that any talent would get money.
602
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:37.760
It would be the center of Commerce
and Training, all that sort of stuff.
603
00:38:38.119 --> 00:38:43.639
Now the technology is involved and he
segued into how things work nowadays.
604
00:38:44.119 --> 00:38:45.960
He had quite a cool segway that. That's pretty cool. Yeah, that's
605
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:50.440
pretty cool because it's not too cheesy
like and if you're probably look at it
606
00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:52.599
and it's like, Oh, you've
made a depart too. You probably went
607
00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:57.760
on Google map, did something,
went on the wikipedsia, put some stuff
608
00:38:57.800 --> 00:39:00.280
together. You really want to talk
to me. You made a really conscious
609
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:05.119
effort to speak to ministries, to
the meet your Robert. So yeah,
610
00:39:05.239 --> 00:39:07.639
okay. But the cool thing about
that so I asked him and he told
611
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:10.360
me and now I thought about it, I thought that map, that's just
612
00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:15.800
so easy. How did he find
out that without spending all day? It's
613
00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:19.679
actually really easy. He went on
my linkedin profile and he saw the town.
614
00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:22.519
It tells you where everyone's living.
So if for some people might say
615
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:27.039
do y'rk, okay, a bit
more difficult. You can't say the Brooklyn
616
00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:30.119
Bridge and they don't live anywhere near
it. But if someone lives in suberbitare
617
00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:35.159
like I do, I've got maidstone
in Ken in England, then great.
618
00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:37.760
Just put maidstone into Google. You
will find the River Med where, you
619
00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:42.599
will find what's here. You'll find
madstone United Football Club, you'll find the
620
00:39:42.920 --> 00:39:45.559
library whatever. He just did that. It took him twenty seconds. He
621
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:49.920
went on my linkedin profile, like
you should with anyone, saw that and
622
00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:52.320
he saw my job title, to
which is something else that he used.
623
00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:54.280
So it's you know, once you
build the muscle memory, once you've done
624
00:39:54.280 --> 00:39:58.119
it a few times, once you've
done your reps, you can get really
625
00:39:58.159 --> 00:40:00.400
quick with that stuff. So so
already s but that concussion is very much
626
00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:06.760
about people doing the job properly right. It's it's about using the tool properly.
627
00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:09.239
You can give me an ax and
I can do some very stupid stuff
628
00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:14.559
with that. Oh I can actually
use it properly and cut wood and cut
629
00:40:14.599 --> 00:40:16.239
a lot of woods and be very
you know, basically a lot of but
630
00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:19.679
like, I don't know about that
energy, but there you go. I'm
631
00:40:19.719 --> 00:40:22.079
trying with the x. But what
do you think it's opening in the market?
632
00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:25.079
Because what do you think is so
many spam? I mean, I
633
00:40:25.159 --> 00:40:30.480
still receive a lot every day out
people just literally send in me an email
634
00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:32.320
or you've not saying I wanted to
bump that up. If you're not respected
635
00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:36.360
to my previous one, you must
be busy. No, you just you
636
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:39.320
don't even just scrap. I'm not
interesting that. Will never be interested in
637
00:40:39.400 --> 00:40:42.800
that. You don't even have the
right guy in fifty percent of the case
638
00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:45.000
or sixty percent of the case,
and I don't know what you want.
639
00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:49.400
Most of them actually don't respond because
I'm like, I don't have any any
640
00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:52.440
d what would be the agenda of
that meeting? You want a meeting with
641
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:54.280
me. You're want the most precious
thing that I've got, which is time,
642
00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:58.840
because I'm never going to get it
back, and you're not telling me
643
00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:02.440
why. That's bloody sentfish. But
so that that's by the stuff. So
644
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:07.239
what do you think it's opening with
technology, and what do you think is
645
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:10.000
happening in the market? If you
meaning there's a bit of a problem which
646
00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:15.679
is really difficult to solve because you
never know. There's no tangible sign apart
647
00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:19.440
from just the obvious things like it
looks like we're getting better a plrates.
648
00:41:19.480 --> 00:41:22.639
It looks like we're getting better email
rates, all those things, booking more
649
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:25.920
meetings. It's really the messaging.
So and it's amplified when you get a
650
00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:30.239
volume. If I if I send
ten emails a day and I get now
651
00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:32.480
replies, you know, okay,
bad day. If I send a thousand
652
00:41:32.519 --> 00:41:36.000
again that replies, it feels like, oh my God, that's terrible,
653
00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:38.800
but really it's the same thing.
So it just feels worse with all of
654
00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:44.159
the speed technology. I think it's
messaging is this huge thing now. So
655
00:41:44.920 --> 00:41:47.760
your your email where they're saying whatever
they want to say and there's no real
656
00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:51.400
agenda and all that stuff, and
then they follow up and they do the
657
00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:53.360
like what are your thoughts? Email, all of that stuff. They go
658
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:58.079
through ten, twenty touches, they
call you, they linked in, you
659
00:41:58.119 --> 00:42:00.679
don't engage or maybe you tell them
no, one are interested. After all
660
00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:05.719
of that, what's happened is they've
done that to hundreds of people and the
661
00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:08.400
same things happened maybe a couple of
bit. What they didn't do, or
662
00:42:08.440 --> 00:42:12.440
what they maybe not done well enough, is the first thing that I did
663
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:15.719
in my job, the first thing
that our reps now doing their job spend
664
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:20.360
like a week, two weeks.
I mean the whole week, don't do
665
00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:24.920
anything else, sit on calls like
this and speak to customers and people are
666
00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:30.119
like them. That's it. That's
literally it. So when I joined this
667
00:42:30.199 --> 00:42:32.719
company I had three pages of notes
of content, ideas and things I wanted
668
00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:37.239
to do based on my assumptions,
and I knew the company very well senior
669
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:40.800
for years and I know the space. When I did those phone calls for
670
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:45.239
about two weeks, I promise I
got rid of every single bit of the
671
00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:51.280
whole notepad. It was all wrong. None of it actually landed with any
672
00:42:51.320 --> 00:42:53.280
of the customers. I was really
embarrassed. I was asking them so like,
673
00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:57.039
do any of these make any sense
to you, like would that be
674
00:42:57.159 --> 00:43:00.360
interesting at all? And they all
just think no, like your most but
675
00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:04.639
it's not like that. And what
what they then got from them? You
676
00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:07.519
know now translate into it everything that
we do. So I was that far
677
00:43:07.639 --> 00:43:10.400
off and that's how much I actually
knew about the company going into it.
678
00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:15.199
Never mind, that's quite rare most
of the time. If I was to
679
00:43:15.320 --> 00:43:17.840
jump to another company now, I
probably wouldn't know as much about them as
680
00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:22.639
I would have known this company coming
in here. Yea a massive disadvantage and
681
00:43:22.840 --> 00:43:28.159
that that really translates into the messaging. So to email you right now if
682
00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:30.519
I don't know our stuff inside and
out and I've heard it from fifty companies
683
00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:35.360
like you, just like you,
just for the reasoning for me to email
684
00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:38.559
you being okay, I got no
chance. I'm really guessing. It's hard
685
00:43:38.679 --> 00:43:42.199
enough as it is when you know
what you're talking about and you know exactly
686
00:43:42.280 --> 00:43:45.440
what person like you, the recipient
of my email, is going through.
687
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:49.480
Never mind if you're not absolutely sure. The hardest thing is, though,
688
00:43:49.559 --> 00:43:52.000
it's very difficult to know when you
have that, because I would never email
689
00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:55.480
you thinking I've got it wrong.
That's stupid. So no one does that.
690
00:43:55.880 --> 00:44:01.280
But it is very difficult to yeah, well, you know, there
691
00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:04.840
is a lot of people I don't
care about being wrong and they just think,
692
00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:07.880
you know what, a thousand email
yesterday, you don't get any response.
693
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:09.559
Let's do ten thousand tomorrow and see
if I get something. Oh and
694
00:44:09.639 --> 00:44:13.639
it ten sunsand I got one response. I need to do ten thousand every
695
00:44:13.719 --> 00:44:16.039
day. I mean that's stupid,
but I think there is a lot of
696
00:44:16.079 --> 00:44:20.480
people thinking that way. You know, it's a number game or the more
697
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:23.199
the bigger the male list, the
more the more response will get, I
698
00:44:23.239 --> 00:44:29.000
mean, yeah, and the more
you're gonna damage your brands because you obviously
699
00:44:29.079 --> 00:44:31.599
won't be pertinent. You mentioned something
very interesting. You can have come back
700
00:44:31.639 --> 00:44:35.840
to one of the thing that was
describing as my own experience, which is
701
00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:39.679
really around. The way you will
know how to be personate with people is
702
00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:44.840
by speaking to people in their shoes
and also what their issues are. Okay,
703
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:49.199
and I think now and again that's
probably for all the BDSDA listening to
704
00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:52.880
us and people sending even in general
in your company must have, or should
705
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:58.159
have, or would have, conversational
intelligence. You can actually listen to calls,
706
00:44:58.280 --> 00:45:00.719
you can listen to things, you
can find use nuggets. You should
707
00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:05.000
have a setup where the A is
asking questions about look, what are your
708
00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:07.679
changes? What what keeps you awake
at night, when you get out of
709
00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:09.880
work and you drive back? You
know whether you're thinking, what's in your
710
00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:14.159
mind? What is it that you
want to solve? Okay, go and
711
00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:17.239
pick up these nuggets and get it
from thers's mouth and use them again.
712
00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:22.519
I think this is this is brilliant, because I don't think it's complicated.
713
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:25.679
I think he's doing the the important
versus the augent. I think he's doing
714
00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:31.840
the smart thing versus the volume things. Is quantity versus quantity, and I
715
00:45:31.840 --> 00:45:35.920
would draw to us. Someone say, look at send ten men and I
716
00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:39.079
got two responses. When someone says
said ten thousand, I've got two responsive.
717
00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:43.159
The Guy has got ten thousand and
got two response he will be so
718
00:45:43.360 --> 00:45:46.199
concerned. It clearly means that something
is wrong, that that is not right.
719
00:45:46.559 --> 00:45:50.440
Subject Line is not right, content
of the message is not right,
720
00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:55.039
not called to action whatever. But
probably everything is right. abably three everything
721
00:45:55.159 --> 00:45:59.199
is not right in that in that
context, if you if you get such
722
00:45:59.280 --> 00:46:02.519
a small running time of response,
we're getting to the end of the session.
723
00:46:02.519 --> 00:46:07.320
Really Bridges, but we could have
probably carried on farm it felt like.
724
00:46:07.400 --> 00:46:08.559
You know, it was a very
interactive session. So thank you so
725
00:46:08.719 --> 00:46:12.320
much for for your time with you
today. We should probably do that again.
726
00:46:12.360 --> 00:46:15.079
And just a wrong number two.
If anyone wants to get you got
727
00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:20.039
to find your online or to engage
with the needle soft. What's the best
728
00:46:20.119 --> 00:46:22.840
way to get all of you?
Everyone probably would say the same thing,
729
00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:25.840
but linkedin. Is that where I
spare my time. So that's the one.
730
00:46:27.159 --> 00:46:30.360
I'm lucky that not many people share
my name so I probably come up
731
00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:32.639
near the top, or hopefully first, if you put my name into into
732
00:46:32.679 --> 00:46:37.639
the search bar there and Vanilla soft
dot com. Yeah, we're always doing
733
00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:40.159
loads of webinars and content and all
this kind of stuff. So probably they
734
00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:44.519
linked in profile to freeze. I
fin it should trade to send you an
735
00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:49.480
email and the relivant s contenance to
the points. I will review it.
736
00:46:49.599 --> 00:46:52.679
I will send feedback. Whatever it
is. I try my best to not
737
00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:54.639
just sit and talk about it,
I try and live and reread it too.
738
00:46:55.159 --> 00:46:58.639
That's wonderful worlds. Thank you so
much for your time today. It
739
00:46:58.719 --> 00:47:01.679
was an absolute pleasure to have you
on this my pleasure you've been listening to
740
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:06.760
B two B Revenue Acceleration. To
ensure that you never miss an episode,
741
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:09.760
subscribe to the show in your favorite
podcast player. Thank you so much for
742
00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:15.039
listening. Until next time. This
podcast is sponsored by Gong. Gong empowers
743
00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:22.559
your entire go to market organization by
Operationalizing Your Most Valuable Asset, your customer
744
00:47:22.599 --> 00:47:28.440
interactions. Transform your organization into a
revenue machine by unlock in reality and helping
745
00:47:28.519 --> 00:47:32.000
your people reach their full potential.
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