Episode Transcript
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You weren't listening. To be.
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Io. Hi you welcome. To
be. To be a revenue acceleration.
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My name is m here and I'm
here today with Christian Glatzel. See you
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and go from dot whose or gems. How are you doing to the eight?
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Christian? Al Right, pretty good. I mean San Francistco and I
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think with one of the warmest,
most pleasant days, so I think it's
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it's a really good day. Well, that's good to add. Today one
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labor days. You're living the Austrian
time in the US and being with us.
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Thank you so much for being with
us on Labor Day. Would you
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mind giving us a little bit of
an introduction to yourself, but also the
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organization that you're president choose on gems. Yes, superhappy. So you mentioned
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already a little bit. I'm originally
from Austria, born in Saltzburg, which
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I think, at least for the
American it's the sound of Music Association that
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typically comes to Saltzburg. Worked there
for Microsoft, like, studied their work
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there and then came to the US
to do my m B A and started
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working here, worked at Google and
then um about a few years ago,
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started the company us a chance,
together with my identical twin brother. So
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it's especially September is all about conferences
and I think in conferences is always really
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dangerous. Have you talked to me
or have you talked to my twin brother
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and CO founded? Because for some
people it's really hard to differentiate. Absolutely
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you are exactly identical. I think. If you ask other people, I
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think the answers. Yes, I
think JEN UH. I think it's hard.
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If you if you just get to
know us, I think it's hard
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to different that's that's kind of funny. I'm sure you event lots of lots
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of interesting confusing, confusing conversation with
lots of people. When you who walk
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around an event in someone grab you. Yeah, it's always like you,
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do I know this person and I
forgot, do not know this person?
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Is always like the very first question
for myself. That's pretty cool. That's
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pretty good, I think. Don't
remember the name of someone and they catch
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you can just pretend that you are
your brother. Fantastic situation as well.
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Yeah, so what did you that
you guys do? I choose our gems,
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as you mentioned, chopped by a
movement. So basically we automate pipeline
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by turning buyers Chop Movement into hopefully
a R R. So Um in this
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we focus on two components. So
it's you have this this large list of
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people that that bought your product,
will use your product, and we all
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know people are changing the job more
rapidly than ever before. And so when
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these people moved to new orgast stations, what the very best stays people should
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be doing is actually like noticing this, tracking and down, reaching out to
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these people again and making sure that
once they settled, then organization, hey
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it could there be a need for
the product again. So that's really what
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we do. Is like the larger
the list the better, because about twenty
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percent of people change their job every
year. So, depending on the size
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of the organization, this can actually
be really meaningful in terms of like seeing
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thousands or tens of thousands of past
buyers and users change their job. Ye,
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see that. That's really useful.
Uh, and I think you know
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I wanted you to really voise that
for audience because obviously we were speaking together.
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So I know I know what your
company does, but one of the
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reasons why we wanted to speak to
you today is because it's such and and
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particularly let me step back a little
bit. We we started to really push
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what we call the customer success Johnny
autopatics Um and as we are growing,
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most of the people that we are
on the trenches selling or operating the business
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are kind of getting more and more
away from the business. Okay, but
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also because we've been at it for
eleven years now, pretty much a lot
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of clients, a lot of individual
within clients organization that is a progressed internally
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or externally the organization. So they've
got differ drops somewhere else. A fair
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few have retired as well and they
go fishing now of some of other stuff.
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And then there is all the new
ones that are coming in. But
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it's our sells team closing them.
It's more for maybe some of the less
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senior operation people dealing with the campaign. So we don't see them. And
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I was asked to build a list
of all my I'd like to call some
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of them close friends, so people
we've been doing business with, people where
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I know there is a respectful,
you know, engagement and literally in certain
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years I was able to scribble three
pages on my notebook. So there's quite
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a few people and when you think
about what you've got, that linked and
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you see all the connection got in
common and then it's kind of it's kind
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of very granular and sending a few
emails to those people to say hey,
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here is an update, this is
what we're trying to do, we've spoken
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for a little while. You always
get something back. It is all a
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great conversation or and I collect for
what you've done or an update on their
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life from news about kids being born
or whatever. But you're right, you
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also get a lot of business.
So yeah, I guess my question to
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you is it's all good that I'm
doing that. Now he's making and thinking
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about it, but how important is
the consistency in that process and how do
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you keep it consistent, because that
has been my issue. My issue is
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that I've got those people and I'm
very opportunistic myself to reach out to them.
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I think they are really opportunistic themselves, and we only reach out each
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other technically when we eat each other. Is that? I don't know.
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Yeah, man, on on so
many things that are important. I think
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that that the biggest one is actually
how difficult this is to do it at
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scale, like I mean you're talking, you're thinking about the relationships and the
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people that you know, and then
you go to your sales team and they
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have their own people that they know, but certainly maybe a sales person like
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leaves your organization and certainly the knowledge
of the salesperson and the relationships they have
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also leave. But I think that
that's that's actually touched on the most important
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thing that you said, which is
like this kind of like a little bit
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being opportunistic, and I think that's
what you say, where it's all about
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creating actually a relationship. So we
need to think more the B two.
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B thinking always was about like these
our organizations that buy my product, but
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more and more we actually should learn
from B to see where it's all about
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actually the individuals. It's not the
organization that advice the product, it's the
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individual that advised the product. It's
the individual that uses it, it's the
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individual that's the champion. So if
we, if you apply more a B
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to c thinking versus to be thinking, then this means that now I have
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a relationship with a ton of individual
people, and in relationships it's it's really
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important that I think about how can
I also provide value into this relationship,
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and I obviously provide value with my
product. I also provide value in a
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situation where maybe I don't immediately directly
get something out of it, and that's
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why how can I stay in touch
with this person and, for example,
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I connect with them on Linkedin,
or sometimes you you give before you get,
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like if if this person used my
product and now maybe the company has
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some difficulties, maybe there layoffs,
and I can practively reach out and see
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how I can help this person.
Now, how can I help them with
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introductions, like sometimes I can make
sure that if this is, for example,
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a saying Lather, then I can
introduce them to other companies that are
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now that are currently looking for slast. So I think really changing this from
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okay, it's a business relationship,
to actually a bit to see it's it's
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it's a real relationship between people.
Yeah, I really love what you are
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saying about providing some value. That
is not, you know, using my
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stuff straight away. And and the
example all of helping them to find a
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job or helping them to where the
few people had had to lay off people
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in the team and did not really
have a house for them, like you
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know that, and they were feeling
bad because they were maybe laying off people
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for the wrong reason, and reaching
out and said look, we could speak
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to them, we can try.
You know, it's kind of cool,
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but I was trying with my team
to think about some other stuff we could
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do. How can we bring value
without being pompous, you know, without
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being painful, without sending too many
messages, because I think there is a
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there is a thin line Um.
So so what are the type of activities
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have you seen being successful in that
sort of you know, bringing values but
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without being too much of in the
face? It's always good to put yourself
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into their shoes and I think,
at least for me, this doesn't come
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natural. So it's kind of like, Um, what are they going through
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in the situation. There could be
something that could be something negative. This
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could be something positive if they started
in job somewhere. Um, but there's
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still this anxiety of like, okay, now I have all this pressure of
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performing at the beginning. So,
for example, what we've seen is,
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Um, let's maybe see this person. They were my customer, my relationship
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here. They moved to a new
organization. Um, if I know what
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job they're doing now, is there
something like some information I can provide,
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for example, if someone Um starts
as a new VP of sales? I
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reached out a few times to people
and said, Hey, I just saw
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it from the other side, because
we just tired advp of sales. Here
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are the things that I think should
matter like to you. Hear the things
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that I think matter to your boss
and and just provide a little bit more
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information. And, by the way, he is a blog post that's really
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helpful in the first three six and
she's to be to be nest with you,
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the two things that I'm really doing
myself is a little bit of Gossiping.
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You know, people want to know
what other people are doing. So
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when you happen to know a lot
of people in the same sort of space,
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they cannot know what the movements are
and they want speak about the industry
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and what's happening, what's selling,
what's not selling, what's going on and
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stuff like that. So that's probably
around I'd say, Seventy eight parts of
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my conversation and then the rest is
very much the first one, which is
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really around the job. So I
see something moving or see them looking for
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something or them posting something on Linkedin
and in steff responding to Australians and them
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a DM or called the mobile,
or as them what'Sapp you know, and
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say hey, we've not connected.
I know someone who's done that. So
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it may not be a job,
but it's about connecting people with each other.
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We were trying to think about what
else can we do and it's always
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quite interesting that that sort of line
of bringing value without being too much in
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their face, because you don't want
to break this relationship by being too needy.
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At the same time. That's kind
of from leading me to another thing
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that I've seen Makee tehim doing and
again. You know, for me Christian,
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I say to myself as get my
videas, have been a videre myself,
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you've got to be a portunistic.
If you see someone moving, this
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is a fantastic trigger to get in
touch with them. But someone take that
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without a pitch of salt. They
take it like literally and what they do
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is Christian moving. And the day
you post the job, basically that you
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move, they're gonna try to get
into your inbox and I think there is
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a time before you do that sort
of things. And and there is also
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maybe a method. You don't want
to say, Oh, you move,
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so use my stuff in a new
company. So yes, I'd like your
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thoughts about that. Not In time
of the content and the value, because
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we can discuss it briefly, but
more on the term of time frame when
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someone needs I think the most important
thing. When you talk about value,
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I mean ultimately I ask the seller
the DR I strowly believe that my product
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can help them. Right. I
think, as you said, it's more
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a matter of what is the right
timing for this, and the way we
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think about this is that there are
three distinct phases. As someone starts your
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new job, and I briefly mentioned
it, like three six days. The
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way we see like a good like
a new sales leader, when they started
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the new organization, they're not immediately
implementing new things. Right like what they
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do is in the first phase,
the first three days they're listening, they're
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learning everything in the organization. In
the second phase, the next three days
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they're thinking. So what? What
are the things that should be changing?
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What would tools, processes, people
could I be bringing in to bring this
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organization forward? And then the third
phase, day sixty two, I need
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that's when they're implementing. And that's
why what you want to do in the
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listening phase, you're not going in
and say hey, use my product,
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but the other the way we do
it is if we identified it one of
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our champions, one of our power
you just change their job. Then we
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go in Um send an email pretty
quickly in the first week, but basically
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just thanking them for working with us, for using the product at the previous
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company and and wishing them all the
best in that transition. There's no asking
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this. We might even add a
gifting step into this, like hey,
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and to make it to make the
transition easier, is a little bit like
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he's a small gifting. Are Right, and then in the range of two
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to three weeks later, that's from
Reading Hey. Now that you're settled.
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Um, could it be interesting to
explore if we can help you at a
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new job as well? Yeah,
and then from then on. So basically,
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we talk here isn't about a sequence. So we talked about the first
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step within the first week, just
taking them two to three weeks later,
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that's when the real sequence starts and
that's when we have these eight nine steps
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over two three weeks with the phone
calls and emails and Linkedin messages. Yes,
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so not straight away on them.
You mentioned something, though, about
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sending them potentially a present. That's
something that tell makes him not to do.
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I'll find it a bit that.
That's why I think you and and
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you know that is I'm talking about
a matter of opinion. I'm not saying
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it's right or wrong. It's my
opinion. I'm not saying it's the best
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practice. I just find it a
little bit weird when someone send me something
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fun of thing, even if it's
a yeah, it's is, or something
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that I don't fually need or don't
fully five dollar about show for for starbucks
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that I can't choose because they live
in London and they would not take it.
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Helus on you to get our show
with me and remember I've got it
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when I'm in the US and then
you go to some stuff that I maybe
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a little bit over the top,
like, you know, a nice bottle
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of whiskey or a nice bottle of
wine or bottle of champagne and things like
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that. So it's just that I
don't really know how to do it and
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I think it's a little bit I
don't want to use that word, but
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it doesn't sound it's not bribery,
but it's almost feel like, you know,
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I want to give you something,
so, you know, you feel
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like you've got to give something back. And when I resist stuff from people,
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I don't like it because what they're
telling me. They say, I'm
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going to give you something, not
because my artists full of kindness, but
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I'm gonna do it because my my
wallet is full of space and I would
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like your money in it. So
and I think it's kind of you know,
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if you give a present to someone, it's got to be for an
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occasion, it's got to be for
something. You shouldn't just be like that.
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So, you know, keep me
a nest. Correct me if I'm
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wrong. What are your sorts on
the whole gifting situation? Yeah, very
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interesting. Because I think in certain
situations I fully agree with you. The
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interesting thing is we always talk about
relationships, like, at least here and
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and these are certainly people. This, this is this is a person that
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previously purchased the product. Right,
this might be the person that brought you
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into the previous organization. From there
it's bread and now several departments used the
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product. Um, if this person
leaves the organization, I literally want to
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thank them like Hey, thank you
very much for actually working with us here,
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for bringing us here. I can
see that it can be misunderstood,
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but especially, do you already have
a relationship? I don't. I don't
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see this bribery. I see this. This is what I would be doing
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to a friend as well. I
think it's about but what you're saying is
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the size of the gift should be
appropriate to the action that I'm doing.
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Right, if this, if this
is a person that locked and twice into
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my product, I'm not sending a
bottle of some pain. But if this
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is the person that brought me into
a large organization and made sure that they
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are sticking around them and staying like
that. And then I think about of
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Champain. It's totally appropriate, similarly
to actually, for example, we did
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when we when companies were still in
there, but we visited them, we
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brought them about of Champain for Christmas. I think it's very yeah, I
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think when you visit the clients or
if you organize an event. So I
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think it's nice to do. One
of the thing that we may want to
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do is to do like even if
people find it weird. I think we're
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gonna get back to normal, but
people still find a little bit busy after
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talk of it to go networking and
get out of the office sometimes. But
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we used to do a client's Christmas
party. We are basically we have our
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clients, but also all the champions
in the market that you know, speak
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Frea daily of us, and so
you don't need to be a client to
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come and it's a fantastic networking event
because you're read with them, you meet
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with the rest of the community.
Um. So that's spending at the moment
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because we have seen our clients running
a fair few events and particularly when it's
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their own events, we see attendance
right not being fantastic. So we've got
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it in the in the back of
our heads us of that. We sort
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of doing is something a bit more
meaningful, you know, like a meaning
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full in time of how much it
costs, but meaning full in the sense
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of we took the time to write
a note to right account the psych you
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caud you know. So actually taking
the time to write a sank you card
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is not something that you can do
at scale. And you know, congrats
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on your new job and getting all
the team that was working on the project
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when they were in the previous company
to sign and obviously put a little world
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but again there is complexity in doing
that because without not all in the same
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office now anymore. Now it gets
hurt. You could just walk around with
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the envelope and the thing and get
it done like literally in thirty minutes,
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and then the only problem you had
after that is find the address to send
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it. Would you send it too? So, so do you think is
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purely online, or do you do
you also consider getting some off flying touch?
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Do you think building a community?
I guess that's where I'm going,
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is also away. And then what
about the meaningful, the kind of and
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written type of things, which is
almost kind of maybe too close, but
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it doesn't cost you anything, but
maybe it will make people smile because we
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don't freee caught anymore. I actually
still have a hard time in the new
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environment to say what what this means
in terms of events and communities that you're
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creating online offline. Um, I
think that, for example, the office
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visit or or sending the cards to
the home address, both of which are
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really hard to do in this new
environment. I actually I actually don't have
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an answer to this because I think
I'm in San Francisco right now with actually,
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like there's so many conferences specifically in
San Francisco in September. So I
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think maybe this is actually a chump
starts, hopefully, the in person events.
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Again, considering how much people moved
outside the city, even in San
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Francisco, I think it gets harder
and harder, like it's to think about
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visiting and a really large customer in
person that they haven't moved it in person.
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It's probably really hard to actually find
the day where the three people that
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I'm in touch with are all in
the office. Yeah, it was difficult
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before. You remember, before Covid
San Francisco, the bay area being one
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of the area where you call clients
and some coming and yeah, but let's
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do a call anyway. You don't
need to. You're like I'm coming,
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I'm I'M gonna be literated on the
road. I mean something like I know
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exactly why you are going to be
starting on other meters away from your office.
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Let me walk by. And you
know, even before, I think,
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there's been that sort of that sort
of thing, that it's okay to
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be online. You know, another
format I would think of is potentially doing
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videos, but again you need to
have the team together to be able to
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do a video or you have to
record it on your phone and then do
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a little bit of a montage and
send it to say thank you. It's
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it's that's that's how issue at the
moment. You know, I think getting
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the trigger is one thing, and
that's by is how do we paste it
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so we don't jump on you know
it's a bit too much, but also
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how do we make sure that's gonna
Compass in the in what we are doing
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with the interaction after and I think
Um and this, I think that the
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really interesting thing for exactly when we
talk about the chop change trigger, because
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obviously we talked about the champions here, we talked about probably like senior people
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in the role, like the decision
makers and that's where the thought process.
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What if this is manner work versus
what is automation comes in? Or do
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what's in a sense, if I
add a gifting step, what's the size
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of the gifting step? But what's
actually really interesting is if you can broaden
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this. So when we talk about
the champions in the easier way to talk
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about this is a close one opportunity
context. If we talk about then a
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says prosmatic here, but Um,
we're actually the real large value comes out
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of this is when I broaden it
and when I said how many people actually
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used my product? So these are
the people where I might not even have
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a relationship. They weren't included in
the buying process. Maybe my CSM knows
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about them, maybe not. But
even if the CSM knows, they're passing
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this information onto the sales person.
Basically never happens. But this is oftentimes
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like if you if you have a
SAS product, that's the difference between let's
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say four people being involved in the
purchasing process but two hundred people using my
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product. And if I tracked these
two hundred people, they might not be
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a decision maker here, but they
can be the decision maker at the next
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organization or they report to the decision
maker and now they're kind of like my
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my internal even spy that can help
me work the organization. And so in
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this case then it's actually less about, let's say, adding a gifting step
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or not, because maybe there was
no relationship. But it certainly it actually
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changes the game of prospecting where,
instead of the code outreach to the decision
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maker, I can do that as
well, but I can also go to
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the people that use the product and
kind of like do the P L G
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motion through the organization. I think
this is this is this is portant Christian.
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Um Actually look at it that way. So it's it's it's a very
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spotant comment. Um. Based on
that, I've got a question that I've
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got to ask you is, do
you have any stats? Do you have
333
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any like odd numbers that you can
share with audience about how much existing relationship,
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nicely leverage after a job move,
can actually entry to impact the top
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line? Yes, Um, so
I think that the biggest one we we
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always started with is just looking at
the outrea trade. Um. So that's
337
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the first one. We just see. We're doing this play internally user terms
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I think we published the statistics on
our website, but I think it's something
339
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in the range of eighty to nine
percent open rate, five to six acts
340
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the response rate. So we're looking
at like thret response right on these emails.
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Obviously they have their relationship, but
ultimately there's also this conversion rate to
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opportunities, which is about three acts. To any other outreach that you can
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can be doing. But I think
the biggest number that we see consistently is
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that Um, tracking new champions,
your power users, ultimately result in ten
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to fift off your whole pipeline,
which means that if you're not doing display
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underson losing out on ten to fifteen
of the partin. And what's really interesting
347
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here is that this it's probably the
only marketing activity that actually scales with the
348
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business. Like it's really hard,
if your linkedin advertising works, to actually
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say, okay, now I like
the organization is growing, I need to
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have two X my linkedin advertising,
because suddenly I'm spending way, way more.
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But as my organization grows, as
I'm have more users, more champions,
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it also means that contract more people. It also means that now I'm
353
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generating more business from them. So
ultimately it's ten to fifteen percent, and
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that's actually fully on autopilot. When
you want to set this up, once
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you have like you track all your
users. Um, like in our case.
356
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What user chance does is literally feed
these new leads into your sades first,
357
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preferably feed on directly into an out
each sequence. Um In our case.
358
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Um, it literally our a es
and SDRs realize about this with a
359
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new meeting shows up in their calendar. Now I agree, I think.
360
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The one stutard I'm not sure I
coude is the two to three x opportunities.
361
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So are you saying that you create
two to three x small opportunity from
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initial conversation? That's what you are
saying. No, like Um. If,
363
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basically, if your team, let's
sate a hundred target Um Um.
364
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Sorry, let's say VPS, and
of saying the marketing that I'm targeting perscuse
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a hundred people that have used my
product before, then basically doing the same
366
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effort, like reaching out, putting
them all in a sequence, taking care
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of my actions, resulting in about
three times the opportunities. Then your target
368
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then your regular target lists. It's
three day more productive technically than picking up
369
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difference trying to eat. Yeah,
some, some, some people that should
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never had a relationship with. That's
that's justful. The last thing really you
371
00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:53.759
mentioned, you know, passing onto
the sales team. So again, from
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my own experience of it, people
who probably would appreciate to have the interruption
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with me, and that's that's one
of the things. We kind of stop
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to do it a little bit because
I can't be sending proposal as much as
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I used to at the beginning and
it took focus on someone the stuff.
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Now, so I'm trying to involve
the sales team, but they still ring
377
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me if they want something, if
they want to progress. You know,
378
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my team removed me from the email. They had me back. So is
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there a balance around that? You
have rules around that from your clients,
380
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or it's just like, you know, it doesn't matter for me to get
381
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involved. I just can't be doing
the day to day's full sell cycle anymore.
382
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Unfortunately. I love it and I'm
trying not to do it because I
383
00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:37.640
really like it, but unfortunately,
you know, I need to focus on
384
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someone ourselves. So No, stract
like I totally hear what you're saying.
385
00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:45.880
Like it's very similar innocence. I
think both you and I I was the
386
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first day person of the organization,
that was the first customer success person of
387
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the organizations that I evolved in relationships
with the very early people. I think,
388
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Um, typically, I tried to
treat them kind of like relationships,
389
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which means that I um, I
want to make sure that at some point
390
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I'm part of the touch and so
this means there's actually an outreach step that
391
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:11.799
involves with these people. So there's
there's a step where I reach out and
392
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this could be the first one or
this could be the fourth one, and
393
00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:19.839
then ultimately I'm trying to be like
the further down it goes to the funnel
394
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Um, the more I want to
be involved. So at least like in
395
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one of the final conversations, I
want to if if that's a person that
396
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I previously worked with, then I
try to make sure that I'm still involved.
397
00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:33.440
And I think it all comes like, yes, like that, like
398
00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:37.680
a million things that that we all
can be doing, but I think it
399
00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:41.240
all comes down to actually focusing on
creating the relationship and I think that's part
400
00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:44.119
of it. Excellent. Well,
thank you so much, Christian. Um.
401
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:47.519
Lots of great insights here. If
anyone wants to push you, the
402
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:51.079
conversation with you or engage with you. The jams and and and I do
403
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:52.759
not know you guys can help them, because I think one of the top
404
00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:56.039
that we've not even touches. What
do you do with sells them sells people
405
00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:02.400
coming and living your own organization and
retaining that information should go a big part
406
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:06.240
of yours. But if anyone of
audience wants to wants to push you,
407
00:27:06.279 --> 00:27:07.599
the conversation with you. Was the
best way to get all of your questions
408
00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:11.319
now I think that that's a great
point. Like, ultimately, what we
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do here is pretty much where we
talked about here, right. So,
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Um, we we take your input, which is like all the people that
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purchased the product, all the people
that use the product, regardless of who
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they worked with, as you say, like to says, person at leaves,
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etcetera, and then push it directly
into your states first. So if
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if you're interested in learning more about
this, then please reach out to me.
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00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:36.799
Email addresses Christian at User Jams Dot
Com. Wonderful. Well, thank
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00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:38.079
you so much for our time,
Christian. Today was an absolute pleasure to
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00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:41.599
be on the show. Austin.
was great chatting. Thank you so much
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00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:45.680
for having me here. You've been
listening to be to be revenue acceleration.
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00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:48.640
To ensure that you never miss an
episode, subscribe to the show in your
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favorite podcast player. Thank you so
much for listening. Until next time,
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00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:57.359
this podcast is sponsored by Gong.
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00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:04.480
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your organization into a revenue machine by
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00:28:10.759 --> 00:28:14.359
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