140: B2B Marketing in a Recession: Strategies for Accelerating Growth

November 17, 2022 00:30:32
140: B2B Marketing in a Recession: Strategies for Accelerating Growth
B2B Revenue Acceleration
140: B2B Marketing in a Recession: Strategies for Accelerating Growth

Nov 17 2022 | 00:30:32

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Show Notes

When businesses need to reduce their spending, marketing is often one of the first areas to be cut.

This is, no doubt, because some business leaders doubt the importance of investing in a solid marketing strategy. They either label it as non-essential and prioritise other spending activities or simply believe their business can survive on the bare minimum.

Yet this can have detrimental effects on business growth, which business leaders will prioritise as a recession looms.

Rather than cutting back on marketing, there should instead be a focus on analysing and fool-proofing your strategy as the market begins to turn.

In this episode of B2B Revenue Acceleration, our host Aurelien Mottier (Co-Founder and CEO, Operatix) sat down with Nadia Milani (VP of Marketing, Proposify). 

They discuss the importance of marketing during a recession, as well as best practices recommended to help accelerate growth and how marketers should adapt to overcome the challenges of an economic downturn.

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to B2B Revenue Acceleration on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, our website, or anywhere you get podcasts.

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Episode Transcript

WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.040 --> 00:00:06.080 You're listening to Be to Be Revenue Acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping software 2 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:10.279 executives stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's 3 00:00:10.279 --> 00:00:14.960 give them to the show. This podcast is sponsored by Gong. Gong empowers 4 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:21.079 your entire go to market your organization by operationalizing your most valuable asset, your 5 00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:27.399 customer interactions, transform your organization into a revenue machine or unlocking reality and helping 6 00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:31.920 your people reach their full potential. Get started now at Gong dot io. 7 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:36.159 Hi, welcome to be to Be a Revenue Acceleration. My name is Eudien 8 00:00:36.200 --> 00:00:40.960 Which and I'm here today with Natzia Milleni, VP Marketing at Propositifying. How 9 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:43.479 are you doing to day, Nadia, I'm doing great right. Thanks for 10 00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:47.159 having me, No, that's an absolute pleasure. So today we'll be talking 11 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:50.399 about B two B marketing in your recession. We don't know if we're in 12 00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:53.600 a recession yet, but we're planning your head just in case. And and 13 00:00:53.719 --> 00:00:58.640 what are the strategies to accelerate growth when the markets are becoming a little bit 14 00:00:58.679 --> 00:01:02.159 slower. But before we get started, what would be a wonderful media is 15 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:06.400 if you could introduce yourself and also the company you represent. The moment called 16 00:01:06.439 --> 00:01:11.879 propositifin amazing, So I'm not in Milani'm VP of Marketing at Proposify. We 17 00:01:11.959 --> 00:01:15.439 are a proposal software solutions. So what that means is, think about when 18 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:19.519 you send out a PDF of a proposal, sales proposal. We help automate 19 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:25.280 that and we help bring insights into that process so you can see how many 20 00:01:25.280 --> 00:01:27.599 proposals you've been sending out, who's been viewing them, and it really helps 21 00:01:27.640 --> 00:01:34.040 companies gain control and send into the proposal process. We sell mostly to sales 22 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:40.760 teams, but we also sell to sales ops professionals and marketing professionals are also 23 00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:45.280 in that bucket. And what's really great about our business specifically in a recession 24 00:01:45.359 --> 00:01:48.799 is that we are not segment or category exclusive, so we don't we don't 25 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:53.840 sell to only one specific industry. We sell to many different industries, so 26 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:57.760 that I think that helps in a recession. Speaking about the recessional or downton 27 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:02.439 in the economy, one of the one of the things that we've seen with 28 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:06.760 COVID, which is slightly different, small like upon them, but a bit 29 00:02:06.799 --> 00:02:09.599 of everything, a lot of st else, but we saw the marketing budget 30 00:02:09.879 --> 00:02:16.520 being probably some of the first budget to be cut alongside some redundancies. If 31 00:02:16.599 --> 00:02:20.919 you being a marketing professional electrons somewhere your sorts on that, do you think 32 00:02:21.560 --> 00:02:25.360 we should kept marketing budget when things are tough kinds are difficult? Yeah? 33 00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:28.840 Right, you know what it's It's not an easy answer. I think it 34 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:31.960 depends on many factors. Um So, it depends on what what industries you're 35 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:36.360 selling too. So if you're only like one's industry and you're selling to sales 36 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:39.240 check right now for example, and they're not growing, I think certain companies 37 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:43.120 are going to have to make certain decisions. Um So. I don't think 38 00:02:43.159 --> 00:02:46.800 this is like an answer for every single company, but um I certainly think 39 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:51.360 that overall there's a lot of research that supports this. And even if you're 40 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:53.680 on LinkedIn at all, there's been a lot of coming up and recessions and 41 00:02:53.719 --> 00:03:01.080 what to do with marketing budgets. Most companies in previous recessions who kept spending 42 00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:07.039 marketing or kept spending and had marketing budgets were able to get ahead of it 43 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:12.680 after the recession was over. Because recessions are cyclical, right, so they're 44 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:17.039 not forever. They happen for a certain period of time. So if you 45 00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:23.800 are a company that continues to do marketing and continues to create demand or try 46 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:27.199 to during that time, and the mental will obviously be as much, but 47 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:30.120 you will get ahead of the competitors who do not do any marketing during that 48 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:38.240 time. UM So I do believe that marketing budgets should not be significantly cut. 49 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:44.840 And I do think that companies who continue to be smart about their marketing 50 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:51.520 strategies and continue to have that marketing budget will finish first at the end of 51 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:53.319 the of the recession and when we come out of it, I think you 52 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:57.919 could not make more sense the In fact, one of the things we've seen, 53 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:02.240 Mr Covid, we we pade the decision to carry on having good conversation 54 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:08.360 and having good marketing and sharing information about what we were seeing, how the 55 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:14.159 how the strategy have to change, why when time a little bit different, 56 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:18.439 and through this conversation we aren't really trying to sell, but we are trying 57 00:04:18.439 --> 00:04:23.160 to help. And for the end of as soon as things got back to 58 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:27.600 normal or guess what, lots of what different ringing basically because you've been helping 59 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:30.279 people when the time more tough, that's stopping the communication because they come buy 60 00:04:30.279 --> 00:04:34.600 your stuff. You can be more right with with with your answer. So 61 00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:41.160 so speaking about best practices now, right, So you may carry on, 62 00:04:41.560 --> 00:04:45.199 but you've probably to be a little bit smarter or is she to addapt what 63 00:04:45.319 --> 00:04:48.639 you are doing from a marketing perspective to still be relevant and address people. 64 00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:53.319 I guess in the right way, because you've got to be conscious of of 65 00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:56.519 things changing. And I also agree with what you're saying. It could be 66 00:04:56.519 --> 00:05:00.920 different from one industry to another industry. How would you propose to fight adapt 67 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:03.439 your your your marketing strategy? Do you have any best polticisy in mind the 68 00:05:03.560 --> 00:05:08.120 radio things that you would do? Yeah, you know, it's it's a 69 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:11.040 really good question, and it's something that we've been thinking a lot about. 70 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:13.600 Is that what can we do? Then there's there's really a lot that you 71 00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:17.319 can do when things slow down, and it's actually a really great opportunity to 72 00:05:17.560 --> 00:05:23.879 reevaluate what we've been doing as a marketing team um or as as an organization. 73 00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:27.360 But like you really touched on something that's that's really good. Ray you've 74 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:30.240 been mentioned it's important to keep addressing the needs of your customer, right, 75 00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:34.519 So it's understanding what are your customers going through. So even if they're not 76 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:40.279 ready to buy today, when they are ready to buy tomorrow or after the 77 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:44.439 recession is over, you will come top of mind because you are that brand 78 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:48.360 that has continue to have meaningful conversations. So it's really understanding what are they 79 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:53.480 going through And the only way you can do that is to conduct actual customer 80 00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:56.639 discussions and interviews. So there's a few ways that you can do that. 81 00:05:57.160 --> 00:06:00.879 You can either create if you have a customer advocacy group already within your organization, 82 00:06:01.160 --> 00:06:04.040 you can reach out to a current customer base to understand, like, 83 00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:06.720 you know, what what is happening how well how you know for us, 84 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:12.199 it would be the proposal process. How has that changed during you know this 85 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:15.759 particular time, has have proposals has been more meaningful to your to your sales 86 00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:19.160 team? UM? You know, have you grown your sales team, because 87 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:24.639 some people will try to grow their sales change decrease other areas because sales becomes 88 00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:27.439 even that much more important and they want to build more efficiency. So it's 89 00:06:27.560 --> 00:06:32.680 understanding like what's happening with your customer and creating content that meets them where they 90 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:35.959 are. UM and and addressing those pain points. So it's a really great 91 00:06:35.959 --> 00:06:40.639 opportunity to evaluate, Okay, what are our content pieces, what our what's 92 00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:45.160 our content strategy, what has to change, and what's more meaningful right now? 93 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:47.000 UM, So that's that's one thing that you can do. So really 94 00:06:47.040 --> 00:06:51.160 talk, speak to your customers, understand what they're looking for or what what 95 00:06:51.399 --> 00:06:55.800 means of change, and build content assets that are relevant to them. Either 96 00:06:55.839 --> 00:07:00.240 it's a blog post or it's like a podcast interviews like this with with people 97 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:04.360 in the industry UM that you you speak to that that's within your I c 98 00:07:04.519 --> 00:07:11.759 P. And creating um either the podcast interview or blog post or creating you 99 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:15.360 know, a white paper if if required. So it's that, but it's 100 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:19.600 also a really great opportunity to you know, if you are thinking about reducing 101 00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:24.480 budget or marketing budget, there's other areas where you can find efficiencies and reduce 102 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:28.399 budgets, not only the demands and budget. It's not only the marketing budget. 103 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:30.279 It's a good opportunity to look at tech overall, like what is your 104 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:35.439 tech stack and what are the key what are platforms and technologies that really matter 105 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:40.680 to your business. So it is a good time to evaluate that and if 106 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:44.680 you are a company who is looking at building on their sales team, so 107 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:48.560 things like proposal find may help the tech stack and help build sales efficiencies. 108 00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:51.319 So I think the tech stack is a really good great place to look at 109 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:56.160 during this this time and where what what should we use and what maybe doesn't 110 00:07:56.160 --> 00:08:01.399 have as much relevancy right now. I think also figuring out like process improvements 111 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:05.040 just simply like how are we operating and does it really work? And how 112 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:09.360 can we be very very clean on execution. So from marketing perspectives, like 113 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:13.959 how are m Q two s l A conversions these days? Like how is 114 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:18.160 how is that working? And are there any processes that we can improve on, 115 00:08:18.279 --> 00:08:22.439 like can we have more alignment with our BDR team for examples, so 116 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:26.000 where you know our speed to leads better, our s l A numbers are 117 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:31.080 just like really being um, we're just crushing it. So those are I 118 00:08:31.080 --> 00:08:33.279 mean, there's there's a number of things you can do, but those are 119 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:37.840 just the top of my mind of things that you can pause you can potentially 120 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:41.240 work on. And additionally, like even s c O like looking at there's 121 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:46.279 better content um as well that just ties it back to them content marketing strategy. 122 00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:48.200 Sorry, I'm like going off on a tangent here, but I just 123 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:52.000 feel like these types of down turns downturns are really great times to just reset 124 00:08:52.559 --> 00:08:58.320 as not only a marketing team, but also as as a company. So 125 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:01.399 I think that you know, we all along growth and you know, for 126 00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:03.200 many years we've had growth at all costs, and you know, things have 127 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:07.279 been going great in tech industries and the stars of the show, and we're 128 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:13.919 seeing that flattened out. But it's it's always a great opportunity as an executive, 129 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:16.879 as a team to just start thinking, how can we do better? 130 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:20.000 What are the things that we are going well that we can double down on. 131 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:24.120 So I don't think it's such a you know, people always think it's 132 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:28.200 die or doom and gloom story, we're heading into recession. Oh my gosh, 133 00:09:28.279 --> 00:09:33.120 let's all worry and like, you know, our anxiety runs high. 134 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:39.279 But I really think that you can position yourself so well that you become a 135 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:43.759 leader um at the end of it and you come out even stronger as a 136 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:46.519 team, as a marketing team and as a company. So I think it's 137 00:09:46.559 --> 00:09:50.799 really important to use this opportunity to do just that. Yeah, I think 138 00:09:50.840 --> 00:09:56.559 it's a great time to test the residiens of centers and marketing. And we 139 00:09:56.600 --> 00:10:00.440 see it, you know, we we I'm sure you've about it. But 140 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:03.200 there was a little bit of burned out from cmos and c rs towards the 141 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:05.919 end of of the pandemic, towards the end of coming because I think everybody 142 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:11.000 was getting a little bit under pressure and everybody focus on the what what What 143 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:13.840 I like about your answer, and I say that you are getting on but 144 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:18.240 it is it's it was a good answer that your answer was very much focused 145 00:10:18.279 --> 00:10:20.879 on the process. That's just the reserves. And I think focusing on the 146 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:26.159 process sometimes what people forget. Okay uh, And coming back to the point 147 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:30.360 I was making early on, you could still try to make self like cut 148 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:33.679 throats when things are a bit tougher, because you know, you do whatever 149 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:37.279 you want, I guess from a sen some organization. But if you actually 150 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:39.960 turned the things around and start to have conversation, try to unders on how 151 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:43.159 you could help what's happening in the organization was what's that mean for them? 152 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:46.919 What's that mean for their investments? Showed little bit of emotional intelligence. You 153 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:52.519 actually built up a little bit probably a better report um and then we can 154 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:56.519 if you or what we've seen. And we were doing what we do, 155 00:10:56.600 --> 00:11:01.720 which is regeneration into southerns eight and two thousand and ten as well when we 156 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:05.559 also had some tough time and what we ended up doing well And the only 157 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:07.639 thing that we had to do back then because it was pretty bad and most 158 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:11.120 of our clients will startup, was to show on the length of our contracts. 159 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:13.720 So we had to do some changes in the way we're engaging with our 160 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:18.519 clients so we are more flexible for them to come in and use the service 161 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:22.639 and come out if they don't need to. But the reality is that in 162 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:28.840 recession you probably need more pipeline never so if you're if you need for X 163 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:31.759 in a tougher environments, not pocket, you probably need six SEX. We 164 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:35.279 need to make that effort. But often I think the bad bits that we 165 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:39.879 see, let's put it that way, are very focused on results, results, 166 00:11:39.879 --> 00:11:43.000 results, results. We want people that are ready to buy now because 167 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:45.960 times are tough. Well, actually you should do the opposite of saying, 168 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:48.240 well, we don't. We want to have good conversation now because we know 169 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:52.840 that this will be resulting in in success in the future when when times are 170 00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:58.320 better. Now, I guess my question to you as well, listening to 171 00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:03.320 your answer to my previous question, do you think your engagement model between sales 172 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:07.080 and marketing needs to change when times are little bit more difficult? So would 173 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:11.919 you the KPI has changed with your engagement forward change or do you finis should 174 00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:15.919 remain exactly the same in time of the role of marketing and starts walking together. 175 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:20.919 I hate this answer. Um it depends, but no, I think 176 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:26.519 there depends evolved your your organization is. But I do think that there's definitely 177 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:30.840 an opportunity to reset, and then that could happen in a myriad of ways 178 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:35.279 between a sales and marketing team. I think that you know, I think 179 00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:39.399 the sales and marketing alignment happens most and this is debatable, but at the 180 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:46.240 m quel two s A life stage, so you're marketing qualifiedly to sales accepted 181 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:50.320 so s A s A L sorry um conversion point and the reason why is 182 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:54.440 that you can have all these these m quels UM. But if there you 183 00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:58.000 know, if we're there's a low percentage of conversion, and how do we 184 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:01.000 optimize that? How do we make it easier for your b DR team? 185 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:05.639 Or your str team to to convert on on those. So it could be 186 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:09.480 that there's a new SLA to focus. If you're an inbound business where primarily 187 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:13.879 inbound most of our revenue comes from inbound, where about eight percent of our 188 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:18.440 total revenue comes from from inbound a proposify. So as understanding like how can 189 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:24.360 how can we even just lock this process up even more to to just convert 190 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:26.799 convert more um. Also, the other thing is like what our with our 191 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:31.080 a CD, with our average contract value? What can we do to bring 192 00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:33.840 bring that up? You know, because it is a partnership between sales and 193 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:37.039 marketing, So marketing needs to go out and try to find you know, 194 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:39.360 the bigger fish if your a CV needs to be up, but what is 195 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:43.240 sales doing on their and UM to help to help make that happen. So 196 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:48.679 it's having those consistent conversations and figuring out how can we just how we do 197 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:52.720 better in a time where demand is not there are buying cycles are you know, 198 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:54.519 are kind of kicking longer. There's a lot more tire kickers in the 199 00:13:54.600 --> 00:14:01.679 process, So what can we do to protect the reavy that re creating and 200 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:05.679 really tighten that alignment between sales and marketing. There's three three main ways to 201 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:09.320 grow, like and I can't remember what the charts called, but it's either 202 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:13.519 you bring on way more inbound or more leads. So it's really the top 203 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:18.000 of final bringing more. So even if your conversion rate decreases, you know, 204 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:20.720 over time during a recession, let's just say you started with a really 205 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:26.679 great conversion rate of you know, let's just say it's like of all the 206 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:31.200 leads that common or depending on industry, it will change maybe your conversion rates 207 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:35.600 and let's just say that decreases and all of a sudden, it's it's, 208 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:37.960 you know, three percent of all all leads convert. It's maybe go from 209 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:41.799 a five to three. So that one way of growing is bringing way more 210 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:45.759 in. But during recession that's hard because you're your budgets are probably going to 211 00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:50.559 decrease a bit. Or you can optimize the middle so your operations so you 212 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:54.639 have better outputs. So that's really aligning core teams and and working better operationally 213 00:14:54.679 --> 00:14:58.720 between your marketing and sales team. Or it's third, it's it's you know, 214 00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:03.240 the output changes, so it's your your your leaver, your output lever 215 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:07.159 changes where you're bringing in more leads um and the output is greater. Is 216 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:09.919 your o a c V is much higher than we typically get, But that's 217 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:15.279 probably not going to happen in a recession either. So really the biggest opportunity 218 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:18.879 is that is that middle part, like how do we build efficiency? So 219 00:15:18.919 --> 00:15:24.879 we're moving faster where we're optimizing what we have and we're protecting the you know, 220 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:28.919 the leads that we're getting in and converting them at a at a greater 221 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:33.360 um greater efficiency. So I think that's the opportunity during during the recession. 222 00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:37.960 Also wants to pick up on the point that you mentioned earlier on the beginning 223 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:41.159 of the conversation, I believe that other way if I will rephrase your property 224 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:45.720 but you get upset. Look, it depends to one of my questions because 225 00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:48.399 not all the industry will be impacted in the same way. So when you 226 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:54.399 walk fast industry, So the point I want to make that is doing volumes 227 00:15:54.440 --> 00:16:00.000 are great things, but should you not actually focus more on account based type 228 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:03.840 of approach and actually a little bit less volume but more targeting when the time 229 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:07.279 are tough because I don't know, for example, it was probably not a 230 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:15.080 great time to contact Airbnb or to contact the Hilton Group or to contact American 231 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:19.320 Airlines during COD right because they are shut down at the issues. Would they 232 00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:25.159 want to buy a solution that is not solving the right now, which is 233 00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:30.200 nobody coming into the autors? Are nobody flying? Uh? Probably not okay, 234 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:33.879 So they probably all ends on that train or dish that they've got that 235 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:37.559 at end. So would you would you use in senor of strategy like more 236 00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:40.720 of an account based tape of a portion becausing really on the vertical you can 237 00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:45.120 help where you believe there is a capability to invest but also a capability to 238 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:49.039 really get a return on the assolution. Yeah. I think that's a really 239 00:16:49.039 --> 00:16:52.799 great point. So if if you have already been seeing success with the account 240 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:56.759 based strategies, I think doubling it down what's what's working is key. So 241 00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:02.480 I think that if you're a in organ station that has already started in an 242 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:06.759 account based motion and you've seen some successes and it's doubling down on that, 243 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:10.480 I think that if you have not done that in the past for whatever reason, 244 00:17:10.519 --> 00:17:14.960 Like for us where we were repeal G, we added a SELG motion 245 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:19.119 so sort of sales lead motion um and so we're we're quite not at the 246 00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:23.480 account based phase right now, however, we are definitely considering. We are 247 00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:27.799 in some ways, but we are thinking about how do we make account based 248 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:33.079 more reality for Q one And the reason is it's like to do it right, 249 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:36.680 you really need to have that alignment with sales. Number one two is 250 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:38.799 to have a really budget understanding. Okay, this is the budget we're going 251 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:41.759 to carve out for this, this is the impact we're going to have on 252 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:45.519 revenue. And some of that takes testing. Specifically, if you've never done 253 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:48.440 it before within the organization, or have done it but have not seen great 254 00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:52.680 results, um, then you need to kind of plan around it and understand, 255 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:56.599 Okay, what's what's the revenue for for and what will the impact look 256 00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:02.160 like. So that's really important to to map out. But absolutely I think 257 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:07.279 that what I agree on that you can do today without planning is have a 258 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:11.079 little bit of that account based mindset, regardless of weather, how sophisticated your 259 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:14.880 account based model is in your organization. And what I mean by that is, 260 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:18.359 if there's certain industries that are just not performing, it's probably not a 261 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:23.720 great time to go and prospect those customers market to them. But if for 262 00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:27.319 example, energy is doing well. As it's doing it's doing pretty well right 263 00:18:27.319 --> 00:18:30.279 now. So if you have if you're in an industry, or if you're 264 00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:34.319 at a company where you sell to many industries, pick the ones that are 265 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:38.440 doing well and double down on them um and and do less of the ones 266 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:41.799 that are are not. At this point, so you know, certain sales 267 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:45.720 tech isn't doing really well right now. There's to your point. During COVID, 268 00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:49.880 there was there were many companies that were not doing well that travel and 269 00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:55.599 service industries. UM to stay away from those and focus as a team on 270 00:18:55.680 --> 00:19:00.519 the the industries that are are not as affected by by a downturn. Another 271 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:04.799 thing that you mentioned that there is about the storytelling and and being able to 272 00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:11.519 well actually understands first of all the context of the people you're selling to what's 273 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:14.279 happening in your prospect organization, what does that mean for them, what was 274 00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:17.599 that mean for their team? And then how do you use the stories to 275 00:19:17.599 --> 00:19:19.839 to to communicate back to them. I just want to know if you've got 276 00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:26.039 any tactics or strategy to actually have that sort of connection link with the sales 277 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:29.160 team, because I guess you will be very much reliant on yourselves team to 278 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:33.039 provide you with those feedback to be able to use that information and and and 279 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:37.759 then package it into content, package it into blog posts and stuff like that. 280 00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:41.720 So is there a way or solution that you are using to go and 281 00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:45.960 collect that probably the most important information, which is what's happening in the trenches. 282 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:52.039 Yeah. We it's a bunch of different techniques that we do to help 283 00:19:52.079 --> 00:20:00.119 support this is one or the marketing department specifically. UM so we first we 284 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:03.720 try to find out what the customer and who what the customers going through, 285 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:07.920 and who the customers like, so we have to find our I c P. 286 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:11.200 But it's having those continual conversations as a marketing team, so we not 287 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:17.599 only so it's not getting the customer data directly only from the sales people, 288 00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:22.440 but also marketing speaking directly to customers. And it was really interesting, I 289 00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:26.920 proposified because it was the first time where the CEO is all about this and 290 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:30.720 I've worked at different organizations in many different categories, and it was the first 291 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:33.359 time of the CEO is like, I want you to talk to the customers 292 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:36.839 and I don't need and you don't need to do anything but just figure out 293 00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:38.599 the ones that you want to you want to talk to specific to our i 294 00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:42.720 c P and to start booking meetings with them. So that was really awesome 295 00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:47.839 in a lot of ways because it gave me the freedom to have direct conversations 296 00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:49.680 with the customer to really try to understand what they're going through. And that 297 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:55.839 helped me as a marketer to start positioning messaging. And it's never really even 298 00:20:55.880 --> 00:21:00.240 positioning, it's just really creating great content that that matters to them and that 299 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:07.079 resonates with them. But we do also seek out sales feedback as well UM 300 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:10.920 and the easiest way that we do that is through we use Gong. So 301 00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:17.759 Gong is a conversation tracking UM software, so we can figure out many different 302 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:21.920 things. There's actual track trackers and tags that you can put into the software 303 00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:26.319 to understand how much, you know, a certain marketing campaign came into conversations 304 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:33.359 or um how much recession came into a conversation, or how much pricing all 305 00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:37.480 of a sudden came into a conversation. So so you can start to understand 306 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:44.680 the trends and if something is resonating or something is becoming more relevant to the 307 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:49.519 customer experience, so that that actually I would say is much more helpful than 308 00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:56.400 having the direct conversation with sales because it's all automated, it's all data, 309 00:21:56.880 --> 00:22:00.880 and really the sales team is busy selling, so they, you know, 310 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:04.519 even though we have a really great relationship proposed by the marketing and sales team, 311 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:08.839 I don't want to be that marketer who's asking them for you know, 312 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:11.960 they're they're you know, opinion on certain thing things that I can't. I 313 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:15.119 just go right into Gong and I can see some of that data there. 314 00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:21.200 So that so I really recommend using that tool not only to understand that, 315 00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:25.079 but also understanding its certain content is resonating and what I mean that by that. 316 00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:29.279 For example, we started a new series called The Closing Show Live, 317 00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:34.000 and um, we we wanted to understand if if our customers are buyers, 318 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:38.279 we're seeing that content. So we started to put a tracker around that and 319 00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:42.880 we're going to continue doing it on some of the close life content that we're 320 00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:47.440 creating. So that it's just a really great way of understanding if a certain 321 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:52.079 campaign or marketing initiative is also resonating with buyers and in prospects. Well, 322 00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:56.920 we love going down the actually sponsoring the podcast so that they helping us to 323 00:22:56.039 --> 00:23:00.920 us to keep going, which is fantastic and solution to listen to conversation and 324 00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:06.519 so yeah, absolute big advocate of of of going too. My last question, 325 00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:11.880 so we we be very much focused on the creating new opportunities, creating 326 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:15.880 new deals. I'd like to ask you one last question about return and and 327 00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:22.640 and what marketing can do to retain existing clients, because you know it could 328 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:26.240 people need to cut stuff, etcetera, etcetera. So it's it's all good 329 00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:29.759 to want to get some new one, but also protecting your existing one is 330 00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:33.519 very important. And you probably have customer success so there's a lot of people 331 00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:37.759 being involved already probably in that customer of John and making sure that they get 332 00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:41.599 the most out of your solution propositified. But I wanted to know from your 333 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:45.920 perspeci event, from your marketing group or even if you don't do it a 334 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:48.680 propositify, but your day in previous life, what can market or what can 335 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:56.240 be to be market or do to support retention. Yeah, that's a really 336 00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:00.000 great question and depends on the size of your marketing team. I think, 337 00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:03.920 um, I think that if you have a large shirt marketing team, I 338 00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:10.000 think having a customer marketing team is amazing. So you know there's a salesforce 339 00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:14.440 team that probably has it, and I think Adobe definitely has it, and 340 00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:17.880 those are those are great because it could just focus on the retention part of 341 00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:22.480 the business. UM. But it's really about making you know that their lives 342 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:27.839 easier. So it's having content that resonates with customers, creating advocacy groups so 343 00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:33.839 understanding what's what's happening there, UM, and just rewarding them for their partnerships. 344 00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:38.559 So whether that's through um, you know, having events or having a 345 00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:41.799 digital event. So it's really just adding value. So how can I add 346 00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:48.079 value to the customer experience as a marketer? UM. That could be having 347 00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:51.559 customer rewards like maybe this is a good time to start thinking about how we 348 00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:56.000 can do that, or a community so you can there's a whole number of 349 00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:59.880 slew of softwares where you can create a community. So it's almost like a 350 00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:03.119 book where all of your customers live there and they can interact with each other. 351 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:07.920 It does take a resource to get that going and continue continue um the 352 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:11.200 effort, but I think if you can start to think about how to build 353 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:17.599 community and just rewarding your customers. I think that it's a good time to 354 00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:22.559 start thinking about that journey session UM and that helps. That helps with retention. 355 00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:26.680 So it's working with your CS team on how to how to execute that. 356 00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:30.200 But such a great point, UM, one that I didn't go to 357 00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:33.960 directly, just because we propose afy it. We're a very small marketing team, 358 00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:37.559 so we kind of do bits and pieces of everything UM and the customer 359 00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:41.119 marketing thing. Admittedly we're not super strong on today, but we definitely think 360 00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:47.319 about that and how we can be stronger tomorrow. Yeah, that makes sense. 361 00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:51.400 You mentioned a few solutions that can help with building communities. Do you 362 00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:55.160 have any names to share out of interest? Because I could be interested for 363 00:25:55.240 --> 00:26:00.920 myself further, because this is we're getting the plant three. What's called platform 364 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:06.480 so powered by Tribe community platform. You know we should have it is a 365 00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:08.200 good name to come up with, you know, you want to create your 366 00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:14.279 try. Yes, we have a community called the Closer Circles. So we 367 00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:19.440 started it last year and UM we have about we have about ten thou customers, 368 00:26:19.480 --> 00:26:25.200 about three thousand of them have have opted into being and the platform and 369 00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:30.960 we UM have tips and tricks we offer. UM, there's a scoreboard, 370 00:26:30.039 --> 00:26:33.799 so people we just certain to score they win swag Um. We put in 371 00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:40.839 the problems that we were currently facing, um customers introduced themselves, so we 372 00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:42.960 we like the platform. I'm not I'm not a pro on which platforms are 373 00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:45.880 the best. I'm sure there could be certain ones that are there, but 374 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:49.880 this for the price and for what it does, we were happy with it. 375 00:26:51.640 --> 00:26:53.359 Yeah, No, it's and it's great. It's study useful. Fall 376 00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:57.200 agens because that everybody would listen to what she says. Oh there is a 377 00:26:57.240 --> 00:27:02.559 son Sue that can do it. Uh, and and it's it's it's always 378 00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:04.359 useful to have a name to get to get to get the things going, 379 00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:07.359 to get the self going. I like the fact you've got a little bit 380 00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:11.599 of gamification with some swag as well as probably could So yes, whatever was 381 00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:15.279 that. We've We've done a podcast with with some jackos with the CEO of 382 00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:22.799 Proven New Connectives and exterms and marketing platform and community and we're good friends. 383 00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:26.839 So we're a'm part of the CEO community. And it's kind of interesting because 384 00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:30.200 everybody wants to build the community, but nobody really knows how to start and 385 00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:33.680 how to do it. It's such a big, big, big project, 386 00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:37.559 and it's complex as well, because as you said, it's about having resources 387 00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:42.319 that can keep it alive. You can just create a community and have uh 388 00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:45.680 nothing in them of what's in it for me as part of a member. 389 00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:49.559 So you need you need to create all that and it's a it's it's a 390 00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:53.119 humongous amount of what that needs to be put in. But I think if 391 00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:56.200 you do it right, it could be probably one of the most rewarding technique 392 00:27:56.599 --> 00:28:02.480 because we all know that referrals for one person two the other person the highest 393 00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:06.759 closing deals. Um, you know, I think I think people finding information, 394 00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:10.200 people speaking about and being part of that community. But you cantually get 395 00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:12.799 in, you know. It's it's craziness that sort of fear of missing out 396 00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:17.839 and everything is it's kind of an interesting concept. So we we we also 397 00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:22.799 are on the on the Journey operatics. Uh we did it, but it 398 00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:26.880 was very physical our community. So we used to meet with people and literally 399 00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:30.440 have food and drinks and go and catch up and make friends and it was 400 00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:33.759 fantastic. But now it's it's a bit more online, so we've got to 401 00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:37.400 adapt and and that's one of our big projects for twenties three, So thanks 402 00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:41.160 for for for sharing at least the name of the platform you are using. 403 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:45.519 That Now, if everybody wants to carry on the conversation with you on what 404 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:49.640 we've been speaking today around you know how those how to B too B marketing 405 00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:53.240 should it up when times are becoming a little bit tougher. But also if 406 00:28:53.240 --> 00:28:57.440 anyone wants to engage with you to discuss about propositify and our propositify, I 407 00:28:57.480 --> 00:29:03.920 could support them in enacts, generating their engagements rate with prospect, accelerating the 408 00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:08.440 cycles with prospect. What's the best way to get to yes? So I'm 409 00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:14.400 like open to all discussions. So if you are looking for marketing mendership and 410 00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:17.599 you just want thinking or just wanted to connect with another marketer, um, 411 00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:21.119 you're having a challenge currently at your organization, I'm happy to work with you 412 00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:25.559 on some of that as well as if you're a sales team or operations and 413 00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:27.440 you are just trying to get more deals out the door and close more faster, 414 00:29:29.359 --> 00:29:32.599 I'm happy to discuss proposify as a solution. So you can reach me 415 00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:37.279 at on LinkedIn is the best way and Daddy Milanni is my UM is my 416 00:29:38.279 --> 00:29:44.359 alias is a page, it's just not in Milanni on LinkedIn, and I'm 417 00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:48.000 happy to connect and carry the conversation. Good well, thank you so much 418 00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:51.359 for your time to Danna Jane. Was an pleasure to have you on the 419 00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:53.039 show. So good to be here. Great. It was such a great 420 00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:59.920 conversation and very contextually relevant, so I appreciate the chat. You've been listening 421 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:03.119 to be two be revenue Acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, 422 00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:07.039 subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much 423 00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:11.720 for listening. Until next time. This podcast is sponsored by Gong. Gong 424 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:18.480 empowers your entire go to market organization by operationalizing your most valuable asset, your 425 00:30:18.519 --> 00:30:25.799 customer interactions. Transform your organization into a revenue machine by unlocking reality and helping 426 00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:30.359 your people reach their full potential. Get started now at Gong dot io.

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