16: Driving Growth by Aligning Sales and Marketing Metrics w/ Tom Grubb

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:07.080 You're listening to be to be read anue acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping 2 00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:10.990 software executive stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. 3 00:00:11.470 --> 00:00:14.910 Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome to be. To be a 4 00:00:14.949 --> 00:00:18.429 really new acceleration. My name is Ohnim with you and I'm here today with 5 00:00:18.550 --> 00:00:21.620 Tom. Grew up from gitl Pie. Are You doing today themb? I'm 6 00:00:21.699 --> 00:00:25.539 doing great. Thanks for having me, no problem at all. So I'll 7 00:00:25.620 --> 00:00:32.579 discussion today. Thumb is about driving growths by aligning cells and marketing metrics. 8 00:00:33.219 --> 00:00:38.490 Before we get into the conversation, before we get into the detail, can 9 00:00:38.530 --> 00:00:42.810 you please stell us a little bit more about yourself, your role and also 10 00:00:42.890 --> 00:00:48.210 your company, Needle Pie? Sure so, as as tree strategy officer to 11 00:00:48.250 --> 00:00:52.399 Little Pie, I guess in simple terms you can say my role really centers 12 00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:56.679 on helping companies do great things with marketing technologies. I mean, that's really 13 00:00:56.679 --> 00:01:00.000 the end game. In practice, with that means is it's really getting decision 14 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:04.109 makers to think first about the business objectives and the outcomes that they want from 15 00:01:04.109 --> 00:01:07.989 their investment. It's easy to get distracted with the technology and not really think 16 00:01:07.989 --> 00:01:11.510 about what you're trying to do a Sein sumilar. Companies really go down that 17 00:01:11.629 --> 00:01:15.469 path of thinking too much about technology without a clear definition or what doing. 18 00:01:15.950 --> 00:01:21.579 So my role is really to insert in a company and look around and ask 19 00:01:21.579 --> 00:01:23.900 a lot of questions and try to understand what do you got and what are 20 00:01:23.900 --> 00:01:26.500 you trying to do? And as far as my background, I'm I'm very 21 00:01:26.500 --> 00:01:32.579 well suited at this because I have a background at crosses technology marketing, leadership 22 00:01:32.700 --> 00:01:36.129 and product marketing. So I can see the big texture right on down in 23 00:01:36.209 --> 00:01:41.090 the wheels of being in the technology I'm in using these technologies. I don't 24 00:01:41.170 --> 00:01:42.930 just just talk about it and there's no way that I could do what I 25 00:01:44.010 --> 00:01:47.239 do if I didn't spend a lot of time in the products and working with 26 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:49.959 them. I feel lucky to do what I do. I really like it. 27 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:52.719 My work or some of the best minds in the business, both on 28 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:56.280 the client side and with the Fox that are in our company. And the 29 00:01:56.439 --> 00:02:00.959 last words our company, Usital Pie. We've been around for about six years. 30 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:04.790 I've been on board for most of that time and we're doing quite well. 31 00:02:04.870 --> 00:02:07.270 We're doing something right. We just got named to the in Fivezero tact 32 00:02:07.349 --> 00:02:10.430 is growing private companies list. Well, thanks for the introduction to and that's 33 00:02:10.430 --> 00:02:14.550 that's very useful. So, as part of the topic today, we know 34 00:02:14.710 --> 00:02:19.539 that the the lack of salts and marketing alignment is not a new topic in 35 00:02:19.580 --> 00:02:23.819 the industry and it can be attributed to many different things. But the what 36 00:02:23.939 --> 00:02:29.939 I really want to discuss with you today is around metrics and KPIS. Do 37 00:02:30.050 --> 00:02:35.770 you believe that sells and marketing results should be should be measured by the same 38 00:02:35.849 --> 00:02:42.849 metrics from courage alignment between the teams? Oh, if yes, what would 39 00:02:42.849 --> 00:02:46.360 be useful to one of stone is, what do you think the metric that 40 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:49.879 should be used or what do you think this meeting should be? It's good 41 00:02:49.879 --> 00:02:53.000 question, so I guess I would start from the point of view that you 42 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:57.759 know, sales and market alignment is an old topic and some many people who 43 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:00.389 probably call out a lifetime achievement award if you can actually pull it off and 44 00:03:00.590 --> 00:03:05.629 sustain it. I have seen in firsthand that the keys to the universe for 45 00:03:05.710 --> 00:03:08.469 alignment really are metrics, and it isn't just sales and marketing. I mean, 46 00:03:08.469 --> 00:03:13.340 if you think about it, an entire business is supposed to be about 47 00:03:13.419 --> 00:03:15.419 delivering results and if you can't measure those results. You know, what are 48 00:03:15.419 --> 00:03:20.020 you doing? It's just that sales and marketing are really, you know, 49 00:03:20.139 --> 00:03:23.500 one of the Lynch pins, right, that's the engine of growth, and 50 00:03:23.659 --> 00:03:30.610 so to me it's absolutely fundamental that you get these analytics right and into their 51 00:03:30.650 --> 00:03:35.330 rightful place for this to occur. Yeah, I absolutely know for a fact 52 00:03:35.330 --> 00:03:40.169 that these analytics are are the key fun so which ones? Interestingly, I 53 00:03:40.250 --> 00:03:46.319 would say that the best metrics are the ones that sales and marketing executives all 54 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:50.360 the way up to the CEO, actually agree on, understand and stick with. 55 00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:53.159 So, in other words, it matters less like which metrics you choose, 56 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:58.349 but it matters much more that everyone believes in them, they act on 57 00:03:58.430 --> 00:04:02.509 them, they they have a constructive dialog around them. So it matters most 58 00:04:02.550 --> 00:04:06.310 that you get to that point and which, exactly which metrics you choose. 59 00:04:08.189 --> 00:04:13.099 Okay, so you get to bully about, do the defront of functions. 60 00:04:13.180 --> 00:04:15.819 Said, marketing management, one of my taking a response to being seen, 61 00:04:15.899 --> 00:04:20.980 what do we achieve? Agreeing on what do we achieve? But looking at 62 00:04:21.019 --> 00:04:26.129 the numbells of that sort of engagement at any shakes think. Okay, he's 63 00:04:26.209 --> 00:04:29.810 my thought of the process. That's what you are saying it is, and 64 00:04:29.930 --> 00:04:32.250 I can give you an example. This fresh on my mind. Take a 65 00:04:32.329 --> 00:04:38.129 company that has been growing and moving in the traditional model of I have to 66 00:04:38.170 --> 00:04:42.759 go engage people, individuals, and have to convert those individuals into, you 67 00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:46.120 know, dollars by way of engaging them. And I got to go get 68 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:48.439 people and I got to go make them do things and moving further through the 69 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:53.629 funnel. That's the traditional model. But then a company, thinking of a 70 00:04:53.670 --> 00:04:57.709 couple in particular, they come to the point where there have a large deal 71 00:04:57.829 --> 00:05:01.350 size and they realize that it's Morere about occasion account let's. So that's a 72 00:05:01.430 --> 00:05:04.230 very different way of looking at the world and you can't just throw away the 73 00:05:04.350 --> 00:05:09.180 old view start with a new one. You in that case, you have 74 00:05:09.259 --> 00:05:13.939 to both continue to engage people's individuals space that sere's people don't talk to accounts, 75 00:05:13.980 --> 00:05:16.019 they talk to people who belong to it. And so, if you 76 00:05:16.060 --> 00:05:20.730 think about it, these companies have to stop and recognize that they need to 77 00:05:21.170 --> 00:05:25.850 recalibrate how they talk about marketing. And I've seen this play out, this 78 00:05:26.009 --> 00:05:30.810 exact scenario where the company suddenly goes from the executive say I want to understand 79 00:05:30.850 --> 00:05:35.680 attribution and the marketing team goes off and they instruct the world around attribution rather 80 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:40.639 than attribution model, and then the business moves forward and they come back and 81 00:05:40.759 --> 00:05:43.720 it's well, that was good, but now you need to tell us how 82 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:47.319 you're engaging account so, regardless, they have to move together down that path 83 00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:50.829 and to be able to talk about the presence in the source the same way. 84 00:05:51.389 --> 00:05:57.550 Absolutely, but do completely agree with you. Actually, we what we 85 00:05:57.709 --> 00:06:00.670 tend to see ourself in the market. We tend to see that we kind 86 00:06:00.670 --> 00:06:05.620 of come as the glue between cells and marketing. Is that maybe a little 87 00:06:05.620 --> 00:06:10.379 bit of a metaphor here, but that's kind of who we are. We 88 00:06:10.860 --> 00:06:16.339 come and bridge that gap between cells and marketing and often the dollars come from 89 00:06:16.420 --> 00:06:20.689 marketing. However, most of our interaction on a daily basis will be with 90 00:06:20.769 --> 00:06:28.050 the cells team and what we've realized. We realize that it's really important at 91 00:06:28.129 --> 00:06:31.879 the at the early stage of the conversation or before you even start working on 92 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:36.600 a specific project of whatever the type of project or whatever the the end goal 93 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:42.079 is to actually get cells and marketing in the same room and just tell them 94 00:06:42.199 --> 00:06:46.079 what what we are about to do or the ideas that we've got the responsibility 95 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:48.870 that we will take in the process, the responsibility that marketing will tell that 96 00:06:48.990 --> 00:06:54.029 cells will take, and if everybody agrees, you almost have that sort of 97 00:06:55.029 --> 00:06:58.389 I would almost culle it like an SLA. Well, there is an agreement 98 00:06:58.509 --> 00:07:01.420 of what we are doing and you can documented and always go back to it. 99 00:07:02.100 --> 00:07:08.939 But I think for us it's really important because often what we could see, 100 00:07:08.980 --> 00:07:11.939 or what we have seen in the past, is we get an engagement 101 00:07:12.180 --> 00:07:15.689 with the marketing team, we have the dollars and then we end up delivering 102 00:07:15.810 --> 00:07:18.930 something for the cells team that is not really what they want. So you 103 00:07:19.050 --> 00:07:25.329 end up having difficulties in actually proving your value because you've got, I guess, 104 00:07:25.649 --> 00:07:30.319 a receiver that may not between incline or not fully happy to engage with 105 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:34.560 you. So so I completely agree with with what you're saying and I think 106 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:41.480 it's extremely important to have those discussion early on and at the outset of any 107 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:45.670 programs to make sure that everybody is on the same way of Lens and everybody's 108 00:07:45.829 --> 00:07:49.350 is trying to achieve the same goals, as well as understand very clearly what 109 00:07:49.509 --> 00:07:55.910 their role responsibilities are in achieving that that common goal. So that's that's makes 110 00:07:55.949 --> 00:08:00.420 sense to me. In your recent article about but marketing at analytics, you 111 00:08:00.579 --> 00:08:03.420 mentioned that the view from the top of the organization, I believe you mentioned 112 00:08:03.540 --> 00:08:09.420 CEO, ball of directors, etc. Is often that cells, and I'm 113 00:08:09.500 --> 00:08:15.529 putting you here, cells, drives revenue and marketing drives up costs. Okay, 114 00:08:16.089 --> 00:08:20.610 so that's quite able statements and I will be honest with you, a 115 00:08:20.689 --> 00:08:24.649 statement of use myself in the past. Maybe not in that but that's you 116 00:08:24.689 --> 00:08:26.439 know, that's the reason why it makes me. makes me smile because I 117 00:08:26.519 --> 00:08:31.600 think you kind of get its put on in term of interm what people think. 118 00:08:31.080 --> 00:08:35.600 But what I would like to understand better is your point of view on 119 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:43.110 what do you believe marketing professional should or can do to change that scenario and 120 00:08:43.590 --> 00:08:48.750 avoid being seen as a concent but well being seen as an investment. Yeah, 121 00:08:50.389 --> 00:08:52.429 that's a really good question. So I'm only kind of reflect for a 122 00:08:52.509 --> 00:08:56.539 moment on the both statement that I made in that article. You know, 123 00:08:56.740 --> 00:09:01.419 it really is about it's really speaking to the spirit of the relationship that I've 124 00:09:01.419 --> 00:09:05.059 seen, I mean as a VP marketingsm for many years. You know, 125 00:09:05.100 --> 00:09:07.419 I've been in the room and I've been in that position of what you done 126 00:09:07.419 --> 00:09:11.610 for me lately and it's coming. It's coming from a place. So I'm 127 00:09:11.649 --> 00:09:13.129 giving you all this money and what am I getting for it? Fair question. 128 00:09:13.929 --> 00:09:18.570 So that statement is really a reflection to reality for marketers that they are 129 00:09:18.610 --> 00:09:22.169 on the hook to explain and really defend, and I took that word defend 130 00:09:22.250 --> 00:09:24.639 on purpose, their marketing results. And this is the word of the problem. 131 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:30.080 The reality is that that position of coming to the table is in the 132 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:35.759 defensive position really sets everything off on an unhealthy dialog that really centers on marketers. 133 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:39.470 They end up thinking first about how I going to defend myself, you 134 00:09:39.590 --> 00:09:43.549 know, and instead of thinking how am I going to go and when market 135 00:09:43.590 --> 00:09:46.750 share today, and I see this all the time and I don't I don't 136 00:09:46.750 --> 00:09:50.429 blame the marketers for getting into this position. It happens. So every day 137 00:09:50.509 --> 00:09:54.179 is a new day to figure out how to how to keep your job and 138 00:09:54.539 --> 00:09:58.100 present data that it makes that case. But it comes at a huge cost, 139 00:09:58.460 --> 00:10:01.700 because think of the time and energy and effort that a person or team 140 00:10:01.860 --> 00:10:05.940 spend on solving that problem. Instead of solving the problem, I'm going to 141 00:10:05.980 --> 00:10:09.009 go just keep blood in the market. And so what do you do? 142 00:10:09.690 --> 00:10:13.250 You know, this whole conversation is really the center on this problem. Face 143 00:10:13.370 --> 00:10:16.090 it, there is no bigger room in the world than room for improvement when 144 00:10:16.090 --> 00:10:20.490 it comes marketing, which is an interesting statement when you get down to it. 145 00:10:20.649 --> 00:10:22.480 Going back to how does this conversation get off on the wrong footing? 146 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:28.600 The SMART CEOS, they want to know that their marketing team is the people 147 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:33.919 and the process and the technology to always understand what works and what doesn't so 148 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:37.669 they can always do better. In other words, instead of demanding that the 149 00:10:37.750 --> 00:10:41.629 marketing team coming to the table and show me what you've done and defend your 150 00:10:41.710 --> 00:10:46.230 position every day in every way, that that will happen naturally if they come 151 00:10:46.269 --> 00:10:50.179 at it and say just show me that you have a method and a process 152 00:10:50.299 --> 00:10:54.379 that I understand and believe in to constantly be testing intoing better, because if 153 00:10:54.419 --> 00:11:00.019 they do have the end resolve will take care of itself because they'll use the 154 00:11:00.019 --> 00:11:03.330 data and the information to just always do better. So to me it's still 155 00:11:03.409 --> 00:11:09.129 comes down to it's a mindshift at the top. It really at some point 156 00:11:09.570 --> 00:11:13.370 the executives need to sit down and I have a pretty direct conversation about what 157 00:11:13.450 --> 00:11:18.919 do you really want from marketing? Right marketing generally doesn't create revenue. Marketing 158 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:22.200 gets people, engages them to the point where some of those people go on 159 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:28.679 to become revenant. It's really a fundamental, basic conversation about marketings role, 160 00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:33.909 how to talk about marketing and how we're going to how we understand marketing to 161 00:11:33.990 --> 00:11:37.950 always be doing better. And what does that look like? Yeah, do 162 00:11:37.990 --> 00:11:43.669 you feel that there is a problem of perception? Is Coming from impatients? 163 00:11:45.309 --> 00:11:48.259 Because, from my perspective, and another said to you, you know, 164 00:11:50.379 --> 00:11:54.460 sells drive a new marketing drive drive up cost we is something that may have, 165 00:11:54.620 --> 00:11:58.299 may have come out of my mouth a couple of time or something that 166 00:11:58.500 --> 00:12:03.090 was comes through my mind a few times in the past and account I'm guilty 167 00:12:03.129 --> 00:12:07.610 of that and I think for me, from my perspective, it was it 168 00:12:07.809 --> 00:12:13.850 was maybe around impatience of seeing results or impatience of seeing those engagement and I'm 169 00:12:13.889 --> 00:12:18.480 glad that I've been working with with a marketing team that has been dealing with 170 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:24.480 me, managing me in managing that in patience up to the point where actually 171 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:28.320 I can start, you know, and almost educate myself about, okay, 172 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:31.230 this is the way it's working, this is what we're getting. Okay, 173 00:12:31.309 --> 00:12:35.629 now I get it now people are speaking about us now when we're engaging. 174 00:12:35.710 --> 00:12:37.629 We know we we went to an event. So that's that's probably one of 175 00:12:37.669 --> 00:12:41.750 the best example that I can give you about the results of marketing from my 176 00:12:41.950 --> 00:12:46.500 perspective. We went to an event in May this year, so a few 177 00:12:46.580 --> 00:12:50.860 months back, and we sat down and I was with my with my marketing 178 00:12:50.940 --> 00:12:54.340 manager at the time. We sat down with three prospects. Two of them 179 00:12:54.379 --> 00:13:01.809 were CEOS of their companies and obviously we wanted to speak about operatics and the 180 00:13:01.929 --> 00:13:05.169 first statements that both of them made, and I will rephrase a little bit, 181 00:13:05.330 --> 00:13:09.049 but basically they told us, well, we've got so many good stuff 182 00:13:09.049 --> 00:13:13.320 about you, we have had so many people talking to us in a positive 183 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:18.759 way about you that we don't really we don't really have an issue about what 184 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:22.799 you do as a business and the quality of your services. The issue we've 185 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:26.830 got is can we afford your services? HMM. For me that was the 186 00:13:26.909 --> 00:13:31.590 moment who are realize. I was like, wow, okay, that's two 187 00:13:31.629 --> 00:13:35.549 out of three. That's, you know, sixty six percent run right this 188 00:13:35.710 --> 00:13:41.899 morning, of people who are basically talking about a brand and we never really 189 00:13:41.940 --> 00:13:46.299 had that before, or never really felt that way before. That's why you 190 00:13:46.419 --> 00:13:48.779 just and you know those. That's one examples, but there is much more 191 00:13:50.220 --> 00:13:52.139 of those things that have happened to me or conversation that happened. But I 192 00:13:52.220 --> 00:13:56.129 guess for me was really the impatient. So would you put that in the 193 00:13:56.169 --> 00:13:58.129 same category? Would you put in in patience? So is it? Is 194 00:13:58.169 --> 00:14:01.169 it the fine that you've got ceus that are a bit more of a financial 195 00:14:01.289 --> 00:14:05.570 view on things, or why would you attribute that, that sort of mindset 196 00:14:05.649 --> 00:14:11.440 to? Yeah, so it's a really point in patience is you know what's 197 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:16.120 the root of patience? Is a lack of clearing, understanding or expectations are 198 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:22.399 said, and so you know the more than marketing and talk about and help 199 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:28.070 to see you out. Executives really start to understand the stuff, kind of 200 00:14:28.070 --> 00:14:31.029 dancing in an area that there is a point of which these are it is 201 00:14:31.110 --> 00:14:35.149 have to understand at a deeper level what marketing is, what it's about. 202 00:14:35.509 --> 00:14:39.100 The marketing people do marketing because that's a skill and domain that they're good at, 203 00:14:39.779 --> 00:14:43.419 and we're a lot of marketers fails, are not very good. Having 204 00:14:43.460 --> 00:14:48.740 a plan and deliberate actions to help the executives really understand this stuff in the 205 00:14:48.860 --> 00:14:52.610 open and honest clear about it. So they're in patient. It means either 206 00:14:52.730 --> 00:14:58.289 their expectations were never sad or somebody's missed out trying to get them really see 207 00:14:58.330 --> 00:15:01.730 clearly what they're trying to do. So it's an event. Have you said 208 00:15:01.769 --> 00:15:05.690 clear goals and which your outcomes are? If people understand that before you do 209 00:15:05.850 --> 00:15:07.440 it, it's true of all that. So the meaning when I hear in 210 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:13.200 patients it's a lack of time commitment to get people the table stand what should 211 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:16.919 they expect coming out the back of it? Sure, guess. On the 212 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:22.350 stem to Bikeab you see things progressing from market tells. You say he's getting 213 00:15:22.350 --> 00:15:24.350 better, he's getting wealth, I guess. To my point is the question 214 00:15:24.389 --> 00:15:28.710 that I'm trying to twist, because do you see at see you all over 215 00:15:28.950 --> 00:15:33.990 time, evolving towards embracing more of the investment that they're making into marketing, 216 00:15:35.029 --> 00:15:39.899 or do you think it's a regression of all time? I mean the answer 217 00:15:39.980 --> 00:15:43.220 is it course, a lot of these it depends on who you're talking about 218 00:15:43.259 --> 00:15:46.299 in a case by case spaces. If you try to trend it, I 219 00:15:46.419 --> 00:15:50.850 think a couple of things that are happening that have to be raised here on 220 00:15:50.970 --> 00:15:56.809 this point. One is just the sheer massive technologies, but it are available 221 00:15:58.009 --> 00:16:00.929 right in the conversation in this turning more and more a CEOS, especially in 222 00:16:02.009 --> 00:16:04.440 the tech business, you know, think about these technologies and talk about them 223 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:10.919 and certain expectations like to have that. So that's crept into the conversation. 224 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:15.320 It's now the technology part of the conversation has gotten much heavier, and so 225 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:19.350 that's changed things. On the other hand, the other pieces committed picture is 226 00:16:19.549 --> 00:16:25.350 is attribution. A few years ago people didn't really talk about attribution and now 227 00:16:25.470 --> 00:16:30.590 it's something that's pretty well understood and talked about it in a lot of different 228 00:16:30.590 --> 00:16:33.539 ways, and so these things have crept into the conversation. where it used 229 00:16:33.539 --> 00:16:37.100 to be how many new names do you get? Did you get? Today 230 00:16:37.620 --> 00:16:41.500 it's more about they're more open and more capable at the exact level of talking 231 00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:48.330 about technologies and talking about engagement and talking about attribution. So that is something 232 00:16:48.370 --> 00:16:53.210 that's changed. What isn't changing fast enough is a deliberate process or method, 233 00:16:53.289 --> 00:16:59.570 whatever you want to call it, for all parties to agree on. So 234 00:16:59.809 --> 00:17:03.399 what what are these things going to be, and what is the plan to 235 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:07.799 get to Roli from these things and what is our I look like? So 236 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:11.039 it depends. I see some CEOS and some companies where it's a healthy, 237 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:17.430 productive conversation of all the right things. I see others that are far, 238 00:17:17.710 --> 00:17:21.509 far away and as a massive dis that. So it really depends. The 239 00:17:21.589 --> 00:17:25.230 other most the almost fitted the SAS seven faithful or Demockt Doelles. That the 240 00:17:25.390 --> 00:17:29.950 listening twist today is something that you should be mindful during the interview process. 241 00:17:30.059 --> 00:17:33.339 Make sure that you you meet with the top and make sure as you cannot 242 00:17:33.380 --> 00:17:37.220 discuss what would be the what what success means? I guess in a way, 243 00:17:37.900 --> 00:17:40.539 very much so, very much so. And I would add a question 244 00:17:40.660 --> 00:17:44.059 in my father it's like how do you measure marketing? And was in the 245 00:17:44.099 --> 00:17:47.009 answer and then see how open they are there. Maybe it's are of course 246 00:17:47.089 --> 00:17:51.609 to we think it. Yeah, absolutely so. My last point with you 247 00:17:52.250 --> 00:17:56.289 to day the would be around marketing automation tools. There are many tools in 248 00:17:56.410 --> 00:18:03.200 the market that are great to WELP marketing sells team to keep truck truck of 249 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:08.759 metric to make them more productive, to drive results, but it's probably quite 250 00:18:08.839 --> 00:18:15.029 easy, as you mentioned actually early on in the conversation, to fall under 251 00:18:15.150 --> 00:18:19.589 the spell of vendors showing beautiful charts graph with the promise that you can you 252 00:18:19.910 --> 00:18:25.630 can achieve the same in your organization. So we speak about the technology stack 253 00:18:26.069 --> 00:18:32.779 and the beautiful the beautiful statement that they are making if everything sings, tends, 254 00:18:33.059 --> 00:18:37.660 etc. Etc. What do you believe is key for companies to look 255 00:18:37.660 --> 00:18:42.690 at when they are choosing that tools to measure the performance? Yeah, even 256 00:18:42.730 --> 00:18:45.730 the way that that question is phrase makes me think a lot of that. 257 00:18:45.930 --> 00:18:51.130 So that kind of puts the tools at the center of the conversation and really 258 00:18:51.250 --> 00:18:55.609 what you want is people be thinking about what's the business product trying to solve. 259 00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:59.519 So you know from where I sit, I give my hands into all 260 00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:03.240 these technologies because all these companies would serve they get many, many of them. 261 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:08.920 And what you realize that today is that the affordability and breath of the 262 00:19:10.029 --> 00:19:15.630 technology available to the marketer is just staggering, the staggering, and even small 263 00:19:15.950 --> 00:19:21.789 to meetum size company can get these tools that are so sophisticated, and they 264 00:19:21.829 --> 00:19:25.539 can, if they're good and they're smart, they can engage market the global 265 00:19:25.579 --> 00:19:29.579 scale, even a small company and they can outrun a big company they're more 266 00:19:29.619 --> 00:19:33.779 agile. So the affordability and availability and sophistication these tools is has changed the 267 00:19:33.859 --> 00:19:37.900 game framatically. What, as he said, there's a lot of them. 268 00:19:37.730 --> 00:19:41.569 So here's here's what happens. Companies of any size, big or small, 269 00:19:42.170 --> 00:19:48.250 can literally gorge on this stuff to an access to the point where they're almost 270 00:19:48.289 --> 00:19:52.809 choking on it. Mart I can really dazzle, but it can also overwhelm. 271 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:56.319 So what's underneath this is and I live in to it earlier on, 272 00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:59.359 is that the big mistake is. You know, you don't go out and 273 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:06.119 shopping for technology without a plan that covers resources, requirements, timeline, benefits 274 00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:07.630 and kind of back to the question you asked earlier, it's like, well, 275 00:20:07.670 --> 00:20:11.829 what are why are people in a hurry to get the results? You 276 00:20:11.910 --> 00:20:15.029 know, these technologies aren't necessarily easy to build a mind. Yeah, so, 277 00:20:15.230 --> 00:20:18.990 yeah, as you said, we live in the era of marketing stats, 278 00:20:18.069 --> 00:20:22.579 kind of a Mashup these techno alogies. They're supposed to all work together 279 00:20:22.700 --> 00:20:26.779 for a greater purpose. And, as I said, these technologies are ridiculously 280 00:20:26.900 --> 00:20:30.740 good. I mean most of them are. Are unbelievably good. And so 281 00:20:32.539 --> 00:20:36.210 what does that mean? It means that now more than ever, you need 282 00:20:36.289 --> 00:20:41.089 smart people and a plan to get to the value and the challenges that you 283 00:20:41.210 --> 00:20:45.210 know, companies race off to Buyo technology and they don't have a plan, 284 00:20:45.849 --> 00:20:48.970 and I will tell you this. I mean I go back to technology for 285 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:53.880 a long time and some ways the same old problems around forever are still here. 286 00:20:55.799 --> 00:21:00.119 Technologies don't stand themselves up and you don't figure themselves and they don't deliver 287 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:03.039 our I. Without people doing something and having a plan. But worst thing 288 00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:07.390 you could do is go buy these tools and just think that I'm just going 289 00:21:07.430 --> 00:21:10.470 to turn it on in an hour. I'm the results quite the opposite. 290 00:21:10.509 --> 00:21:14.430 Are you one good example? So, Marquetto, that's a platform that we 291 00:21:14.509 --> 00:21:18.259 work in, is more and more becoming a collection of applications where they're kind 292 00:21:18.259 --> 00:21:22.980 of at the center. And then when you do that, you have all 293 00:21:22.019 --> 00:21:27.259 these applications and all these data that are passing across between one another, and 294 00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:32.420 that means there's Apis that are being called and back and forth and on goes. 295 00:21:33.089 --> 00:21:37.369 You better be smart about how you're consuming apis with all these applications being 296 00:21:37.450 --> 00:21:41.569 looked up, because the minute something goes down, everything can go down, 297 00:21:41.009 --> 00:21:45.690 and so I'm the big point on this is Eyes Wide Open. If you 298 00:21:45.809 --> 00:21:49.200 think that these technologies are a simple and so orsonable. A lot of it's 299 00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:52.400 are on, you know, supposed to be complicated. Have Plan, know 300 00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:56.599 what you're getting and know why you're getting it, and tellinement on that. 301 00:21:56.400 --> 00:22:00.279 Absolutely, absolutely. I mean quick, quick story that I would share with 302 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:04.069 you from my side experience. Recently and based on the response you just you 303 00:22:04.269 --> 00:22:08.509 just you just provided here, I went to a meeting. It was actually 304 00:22:10.029 --> 00:22:12.309 not too far away from where you leave I was. I was in Redwood 305 00:22:12.349 --> 00:22:17.539 City and I met with with a company of Great Company and our client now, 306 00:22:18.099 --> 00:22:19.779 but I was sure, prize that probably they are so gone. Question 307 00:22:21.099 --> 00:22:22.819 to me. So we know we like to question people first. So I 308 00:22:22.900 --> 00:22:26.740 went through my question to understand where they are and what they do, Exetra, 309 00:22:26.779 --> 00:22:30.609 etc. And Open up to their question and they're so gone. Question 310 00:22:30.690 --> 00:22:33.849 to me was what's your technology stack? And I was like, Oh, 311 00:22:34.369 --> 00:22:37.809 we've got to take we've got technologies, but we don't have a stuck. 312 00:22:37.849 --> 00:22:42.210 It's not just it's not just a stack that we use for every single clients. 313 00:22:42.410 --> 00:22:47.119 Now, based on what you do, based on what you need, 314 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:49.160 based on the type of prospect you want to go after, based on the 315 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:53.000 type of marketing you are doing was based on the type of activity you want 316 00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:56.799 to do and based on what you want to achieve. We can suggest the 317 00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:00.390 technology style that will again, and as you mentioned, the APA thing is 318 00:23:00.549 --> 00:23:06.109 is very important. So if you I can move almost click within what you've 319 00:23:06.150 --> 00:23:08.589 got already, someone that will just fit, we need to find it's like 320 00:23:08.750 --> 00:23:11.900 cogs. They need to work together. It's not just that we've got something 321 00:23:12.019 --> 00:23:17.019 fantastic running then you just put that I buy is inside and it just spitting 322 00:23:17.700 --> 00:23:22.740 prospects or opportunities or deals. You you have to as you said rightly, 323 00:23:22.859 --> 00:23:26.019 and a really, really a big advocate of that, you need to have 324 00:23:26.140 --> 00:23:30.529 people behind the machine. You still need to be able to qualify that that 325 00:23:30.690 --> 00:23:33.089 individual, and I guess to my point that I was making to them is 326 00:23:33.130 --> 00:23:36.809 like you could have the best technology, Stech, and you could have the 327 00:23:36.809 --> 00:23:40.410 best technology, you will still need at some point to touch Hu meantors at 328 00:23:40.490 --> 00:23:45.319 the end to do the first step in the qualification and bring that to the 329 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:48.240 next steps. But I agree with you in the sense that, and as 330 00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:52.960 part of what you are you've been writing in your article that there is a 331 00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:56.230 big driving people want to consume technology. Seems that they want it's almost like 332 00:23:56.309 --> 00:24:00.269 bulimia. They want a lot of technology, and having technology means that is 333 00:24:00.349 --> 00:24:03.470 better. I think technlogy means that you are doing a good stuff and yes, 334 00:24:03.549 --> 00:24:08.789 they are great technologies, but technologies should be there to improve the efficiency 335 00:24:08.869 --> 00:24:14.339 of individual they should be there to provide more intelligence. From all perspective, 336 00:24:14.779 --> 00:24:19.900 they should be used wisely. So I definitely shall your thoughts on the topic. 337 00:24:21.579 --> 00:24:25.849 Now we always ask a question at the end of each of the podcast 338 00:24:26.329 --> 00:24:30.170 and it's about how can we get old of you? So some of our 339 00:24:30.250 --> 00:24:33.609 listener may want to engage with you. is are because they want to speak 340 00:24:33.609 --> 00:24:37.650 to someone that digital Pi, or they may want to discuss with you directly, 341 00:24:37.049 --> 00:24:41.559 pick your brain up around some specific topic. And so what's the best 342 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:45.160 way to get ord of few? So that's pretty easy for the company. 343 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:52.910 Our website is digital piecom. That's Pi all one word and the same domain 344 00:24:52.990 --> 00:24:56.549 as my email. It's just my first name, so tom at disittle Piecom, 345 00:24:56.269 --> 00:25:03.349 and I'm welcome any feedback or any questions to engage on. This topic 346 00:25:03.470 --> 00:25:07.180 is near and dear to my heart and I've really enjoyed speaking with you on 347 00:25:07.299 --> 00:25:11.779 this topic today. Well, it was great having you today and thank you 348 00:25:11.819 --> 00:25:18.500 very much for sharing old, old the stories, your swords you'll experience with 349 00:25:18.660 --> 00:25:22.049 us. I also had a great time, so thank you very much for 350 00:25:22.089 --> 00:25:29.289 all time them. Absolutely operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technology 351 00:25:29.369 --> 00:25:34.529 companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhouse 352 00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:38.839 has existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus, 353 00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:45.599 agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales. 354 00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:52.910 See How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been 355 00:25:52.990 --> 00:25:57.509 listening to be tob revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, 356 00:25:57.750 --> 00:26:02.470 subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much 357 00:26:02.470 --> 00:26:03.069 for listening. Until next time.