16: Driving Growth by Aligning Sales and Marketing Metrics w/ Tom Grubb

October 17, 2018 00:26:10
16: Driving Growth by Aligning Sales and Marketing Metrics w/ Tom Grubb
B2B Revenue Acceleration
16: Driving Growth by Aligning Sales and Marketing Metrics w/ Tom Grubb

Oct 17 2018 | 00:26:10

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Show Notes

When’s the last time your marketing and sales teams sat in the same room?

Do they know each other’s objectives?  Are they contributing directly to the other side’s success?

Tom Grubb is the Chief Strategy Officer at Digital Pi where his role centers helping companies do great things with marketing technologies. He specializes in getting decision makers to think about the outcomes and objectives of their marketing investments.

Executives can often get distracted with shiny pieces of new marketing technology, and Tom has seen countless examples of companies focused on the “best” technology rather than the actual end goals they are looking to accomplish.

While working with clients, Tom asks a lot of questions.  His background makes him well suited for his job because he has a long history of working in the technology, marketing leadership, and product marketing spaces.  He can see the big picture, the little details and he understands the overall technology landscape.

As a veteran marketer, Tom understands just how important it is to have aligned metrics for sales and marketing.  It’s more important than the metrics themselves! In this episode of B2B Revenue Acceleration, we spoke to Tom about how to align key metrics, viewing marketing in a different light, and choosing the right tech stack.

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Episode Transcript

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:07.080 You're listening to be to be read anue acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping 2 00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:10.990 software executive stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. 3 00:00:11.470 --> 00:00:14.910 Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome to be. To be a 4 00:00:14.949 --> 00:00:18.429 really new acceleration. My name is Ohnim with you and I'm here today with 5 00:00:18.550 --> 00:00:21.620 Tom. Grew up from gitl Pie. Are You doing today themb? I'm 6 00:00:21.699 --> 00:00:25.539 doing great. Thanks for having me, no problem at all. So I'll 7 00:00:25.620 --> 00:00:32.579 discussion today. Thumb is about driving growths by aligning cells and marketing metrics. 8 00:00:33.219 --> 00:00:38.490 Before we get into the conversation, before we get into the detail, can 9 00:00:38.530 --> 00:00:42.810 you please stell us a little bit more about yourself, your role and also 10 00:00:42.890 --> 00:00:48.210 your company, Needle Pie? Sure so, as as tree strategy officer to 11 00:00:48.250 --> 00:00:52.399 Little Pie, I guess in simple terms you can say my role really centers 12 00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:56.679 on helping companies do great things with marketing technologies. I mean, that's really 13 00:00:56.679 --> 00:01:00.000 the end game. In practice, with that means is it's really getting decision 14 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:04.109 makers to think first about the business objectives and the outcomes that they want from 15 00:01:04.109 --> 00:01:07.989 their investment. It's easy to get distracted with the technology and not really think 16 00:01:07.989 --> 00:01:11.510 about what you're trying to do a Sein sumilar. Companies really go down that 17 00:01:11.629 --> 00:01:15.469 path of thinking too much about technology without a clear definition or what doing. 18 00:01:15.950 --> 00:01:21.579 So my role is really to insert in a company and look around and ask 19 00:01:21.579 --> 00:01:23.900 a lot of questions and try to understand what do you got and what are 20 00:01:23.900 --> 00:01:26.500 you trying to do? And as far as my background, I'm I'm very 21 00:01:26.500 --> 00:01:32.579 well suited at this because I have a background at crosses technology marketing, leadership 22 00:01:32.700 --> 00:01:36.129 and product marketing. So I can see the big texture right on down in 23 00:01:36.209 --> 00:01:41.090 the wheels of being in the technology I'm in using these technologies. I don't 24 00:01:41.170 --> 00:01:42.930 just just talk about it and there's no way that I could do what I 25 00:01:44.010 --> 00:01:47.239 do if I didn't spend a lot of time in the products and working with 26 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:49.959 them. I feel lucky to do what I do. I really like it. 27 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:52.719 My work or some of the best minds in the business, both on 28 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:56.280 the client side and with the Fox that are in our company. And the 29 00:01:56.439 --> 00:02:00.959 last words our company, Usital Pie. We've been around for about six years. 30 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:04.790 I've been on board for most of that time and we're doing quite well. 31 00:02:04.870 --> 00:02:07.270 We're doing something right. We just got named to the in Fivezero tact 32 00:02:07.349 --> 00:02:10.430 is growing private companies list. Well, thanks for the introduction to and that's 33 00:02:10.430 --> 00:02:14.550 that's very useful. So, as part of the topic today, we know 34 00:02:14.710 --> 00:02:19.539 that the the lack of salts and marketing alignment is not a new topic in 35 00:02:19.580 --> 00:02:23.819 the industry and it can be attributed to many different things. But the what 36 00:02:23.939 --> 00:02:29.939 I really want to discuss with you today is around metrics and KPIS. Do 37 00:02:30.050 --> 00:02:35.770 you believe that sells and marketing results should be should be measured by the same 38 00:02:35.849 --> 00:02:42.849 metrics from courage alignment between the teams? Oh, if yes, what would 39 00:02:42.849 --> 00:02:46.360 be useful to one of stone is, what do you think the metric that 40 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:49.879 should be used or what do you think this meeting should be? It's good 41 00:02:49.879 --> 00:02:53.000 question, so I guess I would start from the point of view that you 42 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:57.759 know, sales and market alignment is an old topic and some many people who 43 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:00.389 probably call out a lifetime achievement award if you can actually pull it off and 44 00:03:00.590 --> 00:03:05.629 sustain it. I have seen in firsthand that the keys to the universe for 45 00:03:05.710 --> 00:03:08.469 alignment really are metrics, and it isn't just sales and marketing. I mean, 46 00:03:08.469 --> 00:03:13.340 if you think about it, an entire business is supposed to be about 47 00:03:13.419 --> 00:03:15.419 delivering results and if you can't measure those results. You know, what are 48 00:03:15.419 --> 00:03:20.020 you doing? It's just that sales and marketing are really, you know, 49 00:03:20.139 --> 00:03:23.500 one of the Lynch pins, right, that's the engine of growth, and 50 00:03:23.659 --> 00:03:30.610 so to me it's absolutely fundamental that you get these analytics right and into their 51 00:03:30.650 --> 00:03:35.330 rightful place for this to occur. Yeah, I absolutely know for a fact 52 00:03:35.330 --> 00:03:40.169 that these analytics are are the key fun so which ones? Interestingly, I 53 00:03:40.250 --> 00:03:46.319 would say that the best metrics are the ones that sales and marketing executives all 54 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:50.360 the way up to the CEO, actually agree on, understand and stick with. 55 00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:53.159 So, in other words, it matters less like which metrics you choose, 56 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:58.349 but it matters much more that everyone believes in them, they act on 57 00:03:58.430 --> 00:04:02.509 them, they they have a constructive dialog around them. So it matters most 58 00:04:02.550 --> 00:04:06.310 that you get to that point and which, exactly which metrics you choose. 59 00:04:08.189 --> 00:04:13.099 Okay, so you get to bully about, do the defront of functions. 60 00:04:13.180 --> 00:04:15.819 Said, marketing management, one of my taking a response to being seen, 61 00:04:15.899 --> 00:04:20.980 what do we achieve? Agreeing on what do we achieve? But looking at 62 00:04:21.019 --> 00:04:26.129 the numbells of that sort of engagement at any shakes think. Okay, he's 63 00:04:26.209 --> 00:04:29.810 my thought of the process. That's what you are saying it is, and 64 00:04:29.930 --> 00:04:32.250 I can give you an example. This fresh on my mind. Take a 65 00:04:32.329 --> 00:04:38.129 company that has been growing and moving in the traditional model of I have to 66 00:04:38.170 --> 00:04:42.759 go engage people, individuals, and have to convert those individuals into, you 67 00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:46.120 know, dollars by way of engaging them. And I got to go get 68 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:48.439 people and I got to go make them do things and moving further through the 69 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:53.629 funnel. That's the traditional model. But then a company, thinking of a 70 00:04:53.670 --> 00:04:57.709 couple in particular, they come to the point where there have a large deal 71 00:04:57.829 --> 00:05:01.350 size and they realize that it's Morere about occasion account let's. So that's a 72 00:05:01.430 --> 00:05:04.230 very different way of looking at the world and you can't just throw away the 73 00:05:04.350 --> 00:05:09.180 old view start with a new one. You in that case, you have 74 00:05:09.259 --> 00:05:13.939 to both continue to engage people's individuals space that sere's people don't talk to accounts, 75 00:05:13.980 --> 00:05:16.019 they talk to people who belong to it. And so, if you 76 00:05:16.060 --> 00:05:20.730 think about it, these companies have to stop and recognize that they need to 77 00:05:21.170 --> 00:05:25.850 recalibrate how they talk about marketing. And I've seen this play out, this 78 00:05:26.009 --> 00:05:30.810 exact scenario where the company suddenly goes from the executive say I want to understand 79 00:05:30.850 --> 00:05:35.680 attribution and the marketing team goes off and they instruct the world around attribution rather 80 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:40.639 than attribution model, and then the business moves forward and they come back and 81 00:05:40.759 --> 00:05:43.720 it's well, that was good, but now you need to tell us how 82 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:47.319 you're engaging account so, regardless, they have to move together down that path 83 00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:50.829 and to be able to talk about the presence in the source the same way. 84 00:05:51.389 --> 00:05:57.550 Absolutely, but do completely agree with you. Actually, we what we 85 00:05:57.709 --> 00:06:00.670 tend to see ourself in the market. We tend to see that we kind 86 00:06:00.670 --> 00:06:05.620 of come as the glue between cells and marketing. Is that maybe a little 87 00:06:05.620 --> 00:06:10.379 bit of a metaphor here, but that's kind of who we are. We 88 00:06:10.860 --> 00:06:16.339 come and bridge that gap between cells and marketing and often the dollars come from 89 00:06:16.420 --> 00:06:20.689 marketing. However, most of our interaction on a daily basis will be with 90 00:06:20.769 --> 00:06:28.050 the cells team and what we've realized. We realize that it's really important at 91 00:06:28.129 --> 00:06:31.879 the at the early stage of the conversation or before you even start working on 92 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:36.600 a specific project of whatever the type of project or whatever the the end goal 93 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:42.079 is to actually get cells and marketing in the same room and just tell them 94 00:06:42.199 --> 00:06:46.079 what what we are about to do or the ideas that we've got the responsibility 95 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:48.870 that we will take in the process, the responsibility that marketing will tell that 96 00:06:48.990 --> 00:06:54.029 cells will take, and if everybody agrees, you almost have that sort of 97 00:06:55.029 --> 00:06:58.389 I would almost culle it like an SLA. Well, there is an agreement 98 00:06:58.509 --> 00:07:01.420 of what we are doing and you can documented and always go back to it. 99 00:07:02.100 --> 00:07:08.939 But I think for us it's really important because often what we could see, 100 00:07:08.980 --> 00:07:11.939 or what we have seen in the past, is we get an engagement 101 00:07:12.180 --> 00:07:15.689 with the marketing team, we have the dollars and then we end up delivering 102 00:07:15.810 --> 00:07:18.930 something for the cells team that is not really what they want. So you 103 00:07:19.050 --> 00:07:25.329 end up having difficulties in actually proving your value because you've got, I guess, 104 00:07:25.649 --> 00:07:30.319 a receiver that may not between incline or not fully happy to engage with 105 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:34.560 you. So so I completely agree with with what you're saying and I think 106 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:41.480 it's extremely important to have those discussion early on and at the outset of any 107 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:45.670 programs to make sure that everybody is on the same way of Lens and everybody's 108 00:07:45.829 --> 00:07:49.350 is trying to achieve the same goals, as well as understand very clearly what 109 00:07:49.509 --> 00:07:55.910 their role responsibilities are in achieving that that common goal. So that's that's makes 110 00:07:55.949 --> 00:08:00.420 sense to me. In your recent article about but marketing at analytics, you 111 00:08:00.579 --> 00:08:03.420 mentioned that the view from the top of the organization, I believe you mentioned 112 00:08:03.540 --> 00:08:09.420 CEO, ball of directors, etc. Is often that cells, and I'm 113 00:08:09.500 --> 00:08:15.529 putting you here, cells, drives revenue and marketing drives up costs. Okay, 114 00:08:16.089 --> 00:08:20.610 so that's quite able statements and I will be honest with you, a 115 00:08:20.689 --> 00:08:24.649 statement of use myself in the past. Maybe not in that but that's you 116 00:08:24.689 --> 00:08:26.439 know, that's the reason why it makes me. makes me smile because I 117 00:08:26.519 --> 00:08:31.600 think you kind of get its put on in term of interm what people think. 118 00:08:31.080 --> 00:08:35.600 But what I would like to understand better is your point of view on 119 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:43.110 what do you believe marketing professional should or can do to change that scenario and 120 00:08:43.590 --> 00:08:48.750 avoid being seen as a concent but well being seen as an investment. Yeah, 121 00:08:50.389 --> 00:08:52.429 that's a really good question. So I'm only kind of reflect for a 122 00:08:52.509 --> 00:08:56.539 moment on the both statement that I made in that article. You know, 123 00:08:56.740 --> 00:09:01.419 it really is about it's really speaking to the spirit of the relationship that I've 124 00:09:01.419 --> 00:09:05.059 seen, I mean as a VP marketingsm for many years. You know, 125 00:09:05.100 --> 00:09:07.419 I've been in the room and I've been in that position of what you done 126 00:09:07.419 --> 00:09:11.610 for me lately and it's coming. It's coming from a place. So I'm 127 00:09:11.649 --> 00:09:13.129 giving you all this money and what am I getting for it? Fair question. 128 00:09:13.929 --> 00:09:18.570 So that statement is really a reflection to reality for marketers that they are 129 00:09:18.610 --> 00:09:22.169 on the hook to explain and really defend, and I took that word defend 130 00:09:22.250 --> 00:09:24.639 on purpose, their marketing results. And this is the word of the problem. 131 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:30.080 The reality is that that position of coming to the table is in the 132 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:35.759 defensive position really sets everything off on an unhealthy dialog that really centers on marketers. 133 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:39.470 They end up thinking first about how I going to defend myself, you 134 00:09:39.590 --> 00:09:43.549 know, and instead of thinking how am I going to go and when market 135 00:09:43.590 --> 00:09:46.750 share today, and I see this all the time and I don't I don't 136 00:09:46.750 --> 00:09:50.429 blame the marketers for getting into this position. It happens. So every day 137 00:09:50.509 --> 00:09:54.179 is a new day to figure out how to how to keep your job and 138 00:09:54.539 --> 00:09:58.100 present data that it makes that case. But it comes at a huge cost, 139 00:09:58.460 --> 00:10:01.700 because think of the time and energy and effort that a person or team 140 00:10:01.860 --> 00:10:05.940 spend on solving that problem. Instead of solving the problem, I'm going to 141 00:10:05.980 --> 00:10:09.009 go just keep blood in the market. And so what do you do? 142 00:10:09.690 --> 00:10:13.250 You know, this whole conversation is really the center on this problem. Face 143 00:10:13.370 --> 00:10:16.090 it, there is no bigger room in the world than room for improvement when 144 00:10:16.090 --> 00:10:20.490 it comes marketing, which is an interesting statement when you get down to it. 145 00:10:20.649 --> 00:10:22.480 Going back to how does this conversation get off on the wrong footing? 146 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:28.600 The SMART CEOS, they want to know that their marketing team is the people 147 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:33.919 and the process and the technology to always understand what works and what doesn't so 148 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:37.669 they can always do better. In other words, instead of demanding that the 149 00:10:37.750 --> 00:10:41.629 marketing team coming to the table and show me what you've done and defend your 150 00:10:41.710 --> 00:10:46.230 position every day in every way, that that will happen naturally if they come 151 00:10:46.269 --> 00:10:50.179 at it and say just show me that you have a method and a process 152 00:10:50.299 --> 00:10:54.379 that I understand and believe in to constantly be testing intoing better, because if 153 00:10:54.419 --> 00:11:00.019 they do have the end resolve will take care of itself because they'll use the 154 00:11:00.019 --> 00:11:03.330 data and the information to just always do better. So to me it's still 155 00:11:03.409 --> 00:11:09.129 comes down to it's a mindshift at the top. It really at some point 156 00:11:09.570 --> 00:11:13.370 the executives need to sit down and I have a pretty direct conversation about what 157 00:11:13.450 --> 00:11:18.919 do you really want from marketing? Right marketing generally doesn't create revenue. Marketing 158 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:22.200 gets people, engages them to the point where some of those people go on 159 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:28.679 to become revenant. It's really a fundamental, basic conversation about marketings role, 160 00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:33.909 how to talk about marketing and how we're going to how we understand marketing to 161 00:11:33.990 --> 00:11:37.950 always be doing better. And what does that look like? Yeah, do 162 00:11:37.990 --> 00:11:43.669 you feel that there is a problem of perception? Is Coming from impatients? 163 00:11:45.309 --> 00:11:48.259 Because, from my perspective, and another said to you, you know, 164 00:11:50.379 --> 00:11:54.460 sells drive a new marketing drive drive up cost we is something that may have, 165 00:11:54.620 --> 00:11:58.299 may have come out of my mouth a couple of time or something that 166 00:11:58.500 --> 00:12:03.090 was comes through my mind a few times in the past and account I'm guilty 167 00:12:03.129 --> 00:12:07.610 of that and I think for me, from my perspective, it was it 168 00:12:07.809 --> 00:12:13.850 was maybe around impatience of seeing results or impatience of seeing those engagement and I'm 169 00:12:13.889 --> 00:12:18.480 glad that I've been working with with a marketing team that has been dealing with 170 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:24.480 me, managing me in managing that in patience up to the point where actually 171 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:28.320 I can start, you know, and almost educate myself about, okay, 172 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:31.230 this is the way it's working, this is what we're getting. Okay, 173 00:12:31.309 --> 00:12:35.629 now I get it now people are speaking about us now when we're engaging. 174 00:12:35.710 --> 00:12:37.629 We know we we went to an event. So that's that's probably one of 175 00:12:37.669 --> 00:12:41.750 the best example that I can give you about the results of marketing from my 176 00:12:41.950 --> 00:12:46.500 perspective. We went to an event in May this year, so a few 177 00:12:46.580 --> 00:12:50.860 months back, and we sat down and I was with my with my marketing 178 00:12:50.940 --> 00:12:54.340 manager at the time. We sat down with three prospects. Two of them 179 00:12:54.379 --> 00:13:01.809 were CEOS of their companies and obviously we wanted to speak about operatics and the 180 00:13:01.929 --> 00:13:05.169 first statements that both of them made, and I will rephrase a little bit, 181 00:13:05.330 --> 00:13:09.049 but basically they told us, well, we've got so many good stuff 182 00:13:09.049 --> 00:13:13.320 about you, we have had so many people talking to us in a positive 183 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:18.759 way about you that we don't really we don't really have an issue about what 184 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:22.799 you do as a business and the quality of your services. The issue we've 185 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:26.830 got is can we afford your services? HMM. For me that was the 186 00:13:26.909 --> 00:13:31.590 moment who are realize. I was like, wow, okay, that's two 187 00:13:31.629 --> 00:13:35.549 out of three. That's, you know, sixty six percent run right this 188 00:13:35.710 --> 00:13:41.899 morning, of people who are basically talking about a brand and we never really 189 00:13:41.940 --> 00:13:46.299 had that before, or never really felt that way before. That's why you 190 00:13:46.419 --> 00:13:48.779 just and you know those. That's one examples, but there is much more 191 00:13:50.220 --> 00:13:52.139 of those things that have happened to me or conversation that happened. But I 192 00:13:52.220 --> 00:13:56.129 guess for me was really the impatient. So would you put that in the 193 00:13:56.169 --> 00:13:58.129 same category? Would you put in in patience? So is it? Is 194 00:13:58.169 --> 00:14:01.169 it the fine that you've got ceus that are a bit more of a financial 195 00:14:01.289 --> 00:14:05.570 view on things, or why would you attribute that, that sort of mindset 196 00:14:05.649 --> 00:14:11.440 to? Yeah, so it's a really point in patience is you know what's 197 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:16.120 the root of patience? Is a lack of clearing, understanding or expectations are 198 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:22.399 said, and so you know the more than marketing and talk about and help 199 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:28.070 to see you out. Executives really start to understand the stuff, kind of 200 00:14:28.070 --> 00:14:31.029 dancing in an area that there is a point of which these are it is 201 00:14:31.110 --> 00:14:35.149 have to understand at a deeper level what marketing is, what it's about. 202 00:14:35.509 --> 00:14:39.100 The marketing people do marketing because that's a skill and domain that they're good at, 203 00:14:39.779 --> 00:14:43.419 and we're a lot of marketers fails, are not very good. Having 204 00:14:43.460 --> 00:14:48.740 a plan and deliberate actions to help the executives really understand this stuff in the 205 00:14:48.860 --> 00:14:52.610 open and honest clear about it. So they're in patient. It means either 206 00:14:52.730 --> 00:14:58.289 their expectations were never sad or somebody's missed out trying to get them really see 207 00:14:58.330 --> 00:15:01.730 clearly what they're trying to do. So it's an event. Have you said 208 00:15:01.769 --> 00:15:05.690 clear goals and which your outcomes are? If people understand that before you do 209 00:15:05.850 --> 00:15:07.440 it, it's true of all that. So the meaning when I hear in 210 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:13.200 patients it's a lack of time commitment to get people the table stand what should 211 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:16.919 they expect coming out the back of it? Sure, guess. On the 212 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:22.350 stem to Bikeab you see things progressing from market tells. You say he's getting 213 00:15:22.350 --> 00:15:24.350 better, he's getting wealth, I guess. To my point is the question 214 00:15:24.389 --> 00:15:28.710 that I'm trying to twist, because do you see at see you all over 215 00:15:28.950 --> 00:15:33.990 time, evolving towards embracing more of the investment that they're making into marketing, 216 00:15:35.029 --> 00:15:39.899 or do you think it's a regression of all time? I mean the answer 217 00:15:39.980 --> 00:15:43.220 is it course, a lot of these it depends on who you're talking about 218 00:15:43.259 --> 00:15:46.299 in a case by case spaces. If you try to trend it, I 219 00:15:46.419 --> 00:15:50.850 think a couple of things that are happening that have to be raised here on 220 00:15:50.970 --> 00:15:56.809 this point. One is just the sheer massive technologies, but it are available 221 00:15:58.009 --> 00:16:00.929 right in the conversation in this turning more and more a CEOS, especially in 222 00:16:02.009 --> 00:16:04.440 the tech business, you know, think about these technologies and talk about them 223 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:10.919 and certain expectations like to have that. So that's crept into the conversation. 224 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:15.320 It's now the technology part of the conversation has gotten much heavier, and so 225 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:19.350 that's changed things. On the other hand, the other pieces committed picture is 226 00:16:19.549 --> 00:16:25.350 is attribution. A few years ago people didn't really talk about attribution and now 227 00:16:25.470 --> 00:16:30.590 it's something that's pretty well understood and talked about it in a lot of different 228 00:16:30.590 --> 00:16:33.539 ways, and so these things have crept into the conversation. where it used 229 00:16:33.539 --> 00:16:37.100 to be how many new names do you get? Did you get? Today 230 00:16:37.620 --> 00:16:41.500 it's more about they're more open and more capable at the exact level of talking 231 00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:48.330 about technologies and talking about engagement and talking about attribution. So that is something 232 00:16:48.370 --> 00:16:53.210 that's changed. What isn't changing fast enough is a deliberate process or method, 233 00:16:53.289 --> 00:16:59.570 whatever you want to call it, for all parties to agree on. So 234 00:16:59.809 --> 00:17:03.399 what what are these things going to be, and what is the plan to 235 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:07.799 get to Roli from these things and what is our I look like? So 236 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:11.039 it depends. I see some CEOS and some companies where it's a healthy, 237 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:17.430 productive conversation of all the right things. I see others that are far, 238 00:17:17.710 --> 00:17:21.509 far away and as a massive dis that. So it really depends. The 239 00:17:21.589 --> 00:17:25.230 other most the almost fitted the SAS seven faithful or Demockt Doelles. That the 240 00:17:25.390 --> 00:17:29.950 listening twist today is something that you should be mindful during the interview process. 241 00:17:30.059 --> 00:17:33.339 Make sure that you you meet with the top and make sure as you cannot 242 00:17:33.380 --> 00:17:37.220 discuss what would be the what what success means? I guess in a way, 243 00:17:37.900 --> 00:17:40.539 very much so, very much so. And I would add a question 244 00:17:40.660 --> 00:17:44.059 in my father it's like how do you measure marketing? And was in the 245 00:17:44.099 --> 00:17:47.009 answer and then see how open they are there. Maybe it's are of course 246 00:17:47.089 --> 00:17:51.609 to we think it. Yeah, absolutely so. My last point with you 247 00:17:52.250 --> 00:17:56.289 to day the would be around marketing automation tools. There are many tools in 248 00:17:56.410 --> 00:18:03.200 the market that are great to WELP marketing sells team to keep truck truck of 249 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:08.759 metric to make them more productive, to drive results, but it's probably quite 250 00:18:08.839 --> 00:18:15.029 easy, as you mentioned actually early on in the conversation, to fall under 251 00:18:15.150 --> 00:18:19.589 the spell of vendors showing beautiful charts graph with the promise that you can you 252 00:18:19.910 --> 00:18:25.630 can achieve the same in your organization. So we speak about the technology stack 253 00:18:26.069 --> 00:18:32.779 and the beautiful the beautiful statement that they are making if everything sings, tends, 254 00:18:33.059 --> 00:18:37.660 etc. Etc. What do you believe is key for companies to look 255 00:18:37.660 --> 00:18:42.690 at when they are choosing that tools to measure the performance? Yeah, even 256 00:18:42.730 --> 00:18:45.730 the way that that question is phrase makes me think a lot of that. 257 00:18:45.930 --> 00:18:51.130 So that kind of puts the tools at the center of the conversation and really 258 00:18:51.250 --> 00:18:55.609 what you want is people be thinking about what's the business product trying to solve. 259 00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:59.519 So you know from where I sit, I give my hands into all 260 00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:03.240 these technologies because all these companies would serve they get many, many of them. 261 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:08.920 And what you realize that today is that the affordability and breath of the 262 00:19:10.029 --> 00:19:15.630 technology available to the marketer is just staggering, the staggering, and even small 263 00:19:15.950 --> 00:19:21.789 to meetum size company can get these tools that are so sophisticated, and they 264 00:19:21.829 --> 00:19:25.539 can, if they're good and they're smart, they can engage market the global 265 00:19:25.579 --> 00:19:29.579 scale, even a small company and they can outrun a big company they're more 266 00:19:29.619 --> 00:19:33.779 agile. So the affordability and availability and sophistication these tools is has changed the 267 00:19:33.859 --> 00:19:37.900 game framatically. What, as he said, there's a lot of them. 268 00:19:37.730 --> 00:19:41.569 So here's here's what happens. Companies of any size, big or small, 269 00:19:42.170 --> 00:19:48.250 can literally gorge on this stuff to an access to the point where they're almost 270 00:19:48.289 --> 00:19:52.809 choking on it. Mart I can really dazzle, but it can also overwhelm. 271 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:56.319 So what's underneath this is and I live in to it earlier on, 272 00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:59.359 is that the big mistake is. You know, you don't go out and 273 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:06.119 shopping for technology without a plan that covers resources, requirements, timeline, benefits 274 00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:07.630 and kind of back to the question you asked earlier, it's like, well, 275 00:20:07.670 --> 00:20:11.829 what are why are people in a hurry to get the results? You 276 00:20:11.910 --> 00:20:15.029 know, these technologies aren't necessarily easy to build a mind. Yeah, so, 277 00:20:15.230 --> 00:20:18.990 yeah, as you said, we live in the era of marketing stats, 278 00:20:18.069 --> 00:20:22.579 kind of a Mashup these techno alogies. They're supposed to all work together 279 00:20:22.700 --> 00:20:26.779 for a greater purpose. And, as I said, these technologies are ridiculously 280 00:20:26.900 --> 00:20:30.740 good. I mean most of them are. Are unbelievably good. And so 281 00:20:32.539 --> 00:20:36.210 what does that mean? It means that now more than ever, you need 282 00:20:36.289 --> 00:20:41.089 smart people and a plan to get to the value and the challenges that you 283 00:20:41.210 --> 00:20:45.210 know, companies race off to Buyo technology and they don't have a plan, 284 00:20:45.849 --> 00:20:48.970 and I will tell you this. I mean I go back to technology for 285 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:53.880 a long time and some ways the same old problems around forever are still here. 286 00:20:55.799 --> 00:21:00.119 Technologies don't stand themselves up and you don't figure themselves and they don't deliver 287 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:03.039 our I. Without people doing something and having a plan. But worst thing 288 00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:07.390 you could do is go buy these tools and just think that I'm just going 289 00:21:07.430 --> 00:21:10.470 to turn it on in an hour. I'm the results quite the opposite. 290 00:21:10.509 --> 00:21:14.430 Are you one good example? So, Marquetto, that's a platform that we 291 00:21:14.509 --> 00:21:18.259 work in, is more and more becoming a collection of applications where they're kind 292 00:21:18.259 --> 00:21:22.980 of at the center. And then when you do that, you have all 293 00:21:22.019 --> 00:21:27.259 these applications and all these data that are passing across between one another, and 294 00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:32.420 that means there's Apis that are being called and back and forth and on goes. 295 00:21:33.089 --> 00:21:37.369 You better be smart about how you're consuming apis with all these applications being 296 00:21:37.450 --> 00:21:41.569 looked up, because the minute something goes down, everything can go down, 297 00:21:41.009 --> 00:21:45.690 and so I'm the big point on this is Eyes Wide Open. If you 298 00:21:45.809 --> 00:21:49.200 think that these technologies are a simple and so orsonable. A lot of it's 299 00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:52.400 are on, you know, supposed to be complicated. Have Plan, know 300 00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:56.599 what you're getting and know why you're getting it, and tellinement on that. 301 00:21:56.400 --> 00:22:00.279 Absolutely, absolutely. I mean quick, quick story that I would share with 302 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:04.069 you from my side experience. Recently and based on the response you just you 303 00:22:04.269 --> 00:22:08.509 just you just provided here, I went to a meeting. It was actually 304 00:22:10.029 --> 00:22:12.309 not too far away from where you leave I was. I was in Redwood 305 00:22:12.349 --> 00:22:17.539 City and I met with with a company of Great Company and our client now, 306 00:22:18.099 --> 00:22:19.779 but I was sure, prize that probably they are so gone. Question 307 00:22:21.099 --> 00:22:22.819 to me. So we know we like to question people first. So I 308 00:22:22.900 --> 00:22:26.740 went through my question to understand where they are and what they do, Exetra, 309 00:22:26.779 --> 00:22:30.609 etc. And Open up to their question and they're so gone. Question 310 00:22:30.690 --> 00:22:33.849 to me was what's your technology stack? And I was like, Oh, 311 00:22:34.369 --> 00:22:37.809 we've got to take we've got technologies, but we don't have a stuck. 312 00:22:37.849 --> 00:22:42.210 It's not just it's not just a stack that we use for every single clients. 313 00:22:42.410 --> 00:22:47.119 Now, based on what you do, based on what you need, 314 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:49.160 based on the type of prospect you want to go after, based on the 315 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:53.000 type of marketing you are doing was based on the type of activity you want 316 00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:56.799 to do and based on what you want to achieve. We can suggest the 317 00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:00.390 technology style that will again, and as you mentioned, the APA thing is 318 00:23:00.549 --> 00:23:06.109 is very important. So if you I can move almost click within what you've 319 00:23:06.150 --> 00:23:08.589 got already, someone that will just fit, we need to find it's like 320 00:23:08.750 --> 00:23:11.900 cogs. They need to work together. It's not just that we've got something 321 00:23:12.019 --> 00:23:17.019 fantastic running then you just put that I buy is inside and it just spitting 322 00:23:17.700 --> 00:23:22.740 prospects or opportunities or deals. You you have to as you said rightly, 323 00:23:22.859 --> 00:23:26.019 and a really, really a big advocate of that, you need to have 324 00:23:26.140 --> 00:23:30.529 people behind the machine. You still need to be able to qualify that that 325 00:23:30.690 --> 00:23:33.089 individual, and I guess to my point that I was making to them is 326 00:23:33.130 --> 00:23:36.809 like you could have the best technology, Stech, and you could have the 327 00:23:36.809 --> 00:23:40.410 best technology, you will still need at some point to touch Hu meantors at 328 00:23:40.490 --> 00:23:45.319 the end to do the first step in the qualification and bring that to the 329 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:48.240 next steps. But I agree with you in the sense that, and as 330 00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:52.960 part of what you are you've been writing in your article that there is a 331 00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:56.230 big driving people want to consume technology. Seems that they want it's almost like 332 00:23:56.309 --> 00:24:00.269 bulimia. They want a lot of technology, and having technology means that is 333 00:24:00.349 --> 00:24:03.470 better. I think technlogy means that you are doing a good stuff and yes, 334 00:24:03.549 --> 00:24:08.789 they are great technologies, but technologies should be there to improve the efficiency 335 00:24:08.869 --> 00:24:14.339 of individual they should be there to provide more intelligence. From all perspective, 336 00:24:14.779 --> 00:24:19.900 they should be used wisely. So I definitely shall your thoughts on the topic. 337 00:24:21.579 --> 00:24:25.849 Now we always ask a question at the end of each of the podcast 338 00:24:26.329 --> 00:24:30.170 and it's about how can we get old of you? So some of our 339 00:24:30.250 --> 00:24:33.609 listener may want to engage with you. is are because they want to speak 340 00:24:33.609 --> 00:24:37.650 to someone that digital Pi, or they may want to discuss with you directly, 341 00:24:37.049 --> 00:24:41.559 pick your brain up around some specific topic. And so what's the best 342 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:45.160 way to get ord of few? So that's pretty easy for the company. 343 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:52.910 Our website is digital piecom. That's Pi all one word and the same domain 344 00:24:52.990 --> 00:24:56.549 as my email. It's just my first name, so tom at disittle Piecom, 345 00:24:56.269 --> 00:25:03.349 and I'm welcome any feedback or any questions to engage on. This topic 346 00:25:03.470 --> 00:25:07.180 is near and dear to my heart and I've really enjoyed speaking with you on 347 00:25:07.299 --> 00:25:11.779 this topic today. Well, it was great having you today and thank you 348 00:25:11.819 --> 00:25:18.500 very much for sharing old, old the stories, your swords you'll experience with 349 00:25:18.660 --> 00:25:22.049 us. I also had a great time, so thank you very much for 350 00:25:22.089 --> 00:25:29.289 all time them. Absolutely operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technology 351 00:25:29.369 --> 00:25:34.529 companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhouse 352 00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:38.839 has existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus, 353 00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:45.599 agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales. 354 00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:52.910 See How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been 355 00:25:52.990 --> 00:25:57.509 listening to be tob revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, 356 00:25:57.750 --> 00:26:02.470 subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much 357 00:26:02.470 --> 00:26:03.069 for listening. Until next time.

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