17: Here is One "Low Tech" Factor That Will Allow You To Dominate Your Competition w/ Chris Orlob

October 24, 2018 00:32:47
17: Here is One "Low Tech" Factor That Will Allow You To Dominate Your Competition w/ Chris Orlob
B2B Revenue Acceleration
17: Here is One "Low Tech" Factor That Will Allow You To Dominate Your Competition w/ Chris Orlob

Oct 24 2018 | 00:32:47

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Show Notes

What you need to remember in today’s world is that having a unique product is only a ticket to play the game.  

 

It’s not going to help you win the differentiation battle.”

 

That’s what Chris Orlob, the Senior Director of Product Marketing at Gong.io, believes about differentiating yourself in the marketplace.  He understands that it is not your technology that will set you apart from your competitors.  

 

It’s all about setting your company up as a strategic partner immediately in sales conversations that will lead to you dominating the marketplace.

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Episode Transcript

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:08.349 You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay 2 00:00:08.390 --> 00:00:12.189 on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into 3 00:00:12.189 --> 00:00:17.230 the show. Hi, welcome to be to be a revenue acceleration. My 4 00:00:17.350 --> 00:00:20.750 name is Adi am with you and I'm here today with Chris Hall up from 5 00:00:20.829 --> 00:00:24.260 Gonk. Are You doing today, Chris? I'm doing great, very happy 6 00:00:24.260 --> 00:00:28.859 to be here, excited to talk affect. So today, Chris, all 7 00:00:28.940 --> 00:00:34.460 conversation will be about low tech factor that will dominate your competition. Okay, 8 00:00:34.700 --> 00:00:40.049 it's based on the analyticore that you recently wrote. But before we dive into 9 00:00:40.090 --> 00:00:43.530 the topic, then you please tell us a little bit more about yourself, 10 00:00:44.329 --> 00:00:49.049 your role at Gong and also what the what going do as a business? 11 00:00:49.490 --> 00:00:54.679 Sure so, my name's press. I've been running product marketing over here at 12 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:58.759 Gong for about the last two years or so, and before that, funny 13 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:02.679 enough, I was actually the CO founder of a small SASS company that competed 14 00:01:02.799 --> 00:01:06.269 with film. was called conversature, and we were just three kids. Who 15 00:01:06.469 --> 00:01:08.349 Did you know? We didn't really know what we were doing. We didn't 16 00:01:08.349 --> 00:01:12.909 have the credibility with the BC community to actually raise a substantial amount of money 17 00:01:14.069 --> 00:01:17.870 and so we boot traps this startup for pretty close to two years. I 18 00:01:17.909 --> 00:01:21.939 think it was supposed to abound eighteen months, and we eventually just ran out 19 00:01:21.939 --> 00:01:26.939 of money and we ended up smating forces with going and it was the happiest 20 00:01:26.019 --> 00:01:30.700 failure I've ever had in my career. I've had had more fun working with 21 00:01:30.980 --> 00:01:34.450 the team Atcong that I've ever had in my career. But before that my 22 00:01:34.530 --> 00:01:38.409 background was in sales management and sales, as original sales manager over at a 23 00:01:38.530 --> 00:01:44.769 company called inside salescom out of prove Provo, Utah, and that's where most 24 00:01:44.810 --> 00:01:48.879 of my career has been sales sales management, and I spent a lot of 25 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:52.719 time on product marketing injury and our start up, which is what led me 26 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:57.280 to running product marketing over here at Gong and having an absolute last excellent and 27 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:00.909 and what did that? You do exactly at going. Yes, so're going 28 00:02:01.310 --> 00:02:05.590 is it's creating a new category. We're about two years into it. So 29 00:02:05.670 --> 00:02:10.189 we're the number one conversation intelligence platform for sales and what that means is we 30 00:02:10.349 --> 00:02:17.539 help sales teams have better sales conversations and generate more revenue by capturing in analyzing 31 00:02:17.659 --> 00:02:23.539 their calls, not just their calls but their conversations, email communications included. 32 00:02:23.900 --> 00:02:27.340 We analyze those with Ai. So you can increase close rates, you can 33 00:02:27.419 --> 00:02:30.210 dominate your competition, you can gram new sellers faster. So that's kind of 34 00:02:30.330 --> 00:02:35.810 the long wind of pitch, short winded pitches. We analyze your sales conversation 35 00:02:36.050 --> 00:02:39.969 so you can sell that well. Let's beautiful because as bringing right into to 36 00:02:40.050 --> 00:02:45.120 pick up today. So that's a beauty from bridge between. Going to my 37 00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:50.319 next question, you recently wrote an ultiqure. That quote add attention and probably 38 00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:53.039 one of the reason why we reach out to you to discuss fos or, 39 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:58.199 to be honest with you, in that sequel you you quote and and you're 40 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:01.909 truly a right about the fact that the market is is becoming more and more 41 00:03:02.150 --> 00:03:08.229 crowded with new technology vendor that often really on the product differentiation, on their 42 00:03:08.349 --> 00:03:13.780 speck or on their features, shall I say. And we know that the 43 00:03:13.860 --> 00:03:16.860 volume of the volume of the to s vendors, it is growing over the 44 00:03:16.979 --> 00:03:20.939 other. I think you've got a you've got an example actually in the article. 45 00:03:21.060 --> 00:03:23.060 While you look at the mark, take the mark, take landscape, 46 00:03:23.539 --> 00:03:29.210 and I think you are taking five hundred vendors or even less than that in 47 00:03:29.289 --> 00:03:32.889 two thousand and eleven, and now we are looking at over five thousands, 48 00:03:34.090 --> 00:03:38.009 or the numbers are quite crazy. So obviously there is lots of competitions, 49 00:03:38.569 --> 00:03:42.800 lots of people with lots of boot product. I'm share, but everybody seems 50 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:46.039 to be leading on feat shows and then you come with them. That concept, 51 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:50.639 I think, is is great and what we talked about in Lens just 52 00:03:50.719 --> 00:03:54.830 before this podcast, around the fight that's really to get to two fights or 53 00:03:54.909 --> 00:03:59.110 to be on the battle growner, to be strong on the battle ground of 54 00:03:59.189 --> 00:04:03.909 competitive differentiation. With what company should do is to drive or move the move 55 00:04:03.990 --> 00:04:10.780 away from product cell to having the right type of cells conversation. Okay, 56 00:04:11.020 --> 00:04:14.180 so before we get into that, to pick and and some of the examples 57 00:04:14.259 --> 00:04:17.500 that you use and dive into the details, can you please tell audience little 58 00:04:17.579 --> 00:04:24.180 bit more about that concept of driving the conversation, driving the differentiation through sales 59 00:04:24.220 --> 00:04:30.490 conversation rather than features and products. We do you think about differentiation? The 60 00:04:30.730 --> 00:04:34.170 average person is going to think about product uniqueness, and that's right. Like 61 00:04:34.290 --> 00:04:39.560 you should strive to have a very unique value proposition for your market and have 62 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:43.720 a unique feature set but what you need to remember in today's world is that 63 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:46.959 having a unique product is only a ticket to play the game. It's not 64 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:54.029 going to help you win the differentiation battle. Instead, the battleground for differentiation 65 00:04:54.589 --> 00:05:00.110 has shifted from having a unique product to having related sales conversations. And so 66 00:05:00.269 --> 00:05:03.670 the argument I make in the article is that what your sellers say, do 67 00:05:03.990 --> 00:05:09.819 and right during the sales process is where the perception of difference is created. 68 00:05:10.019 --> 00:05:13.220 And the reason I can make this play with any sort of player credibility is 69 00:05:13.220 --> 00:05:16.660 the exact trends that you just out blind a couple minutes. There's an explosion 70 00:05:16.779 --> 00:05:21.089 of competition and every v TOB category. MARTEC, like you said, is 71 00:05:21.129 --> 00:05:25.250 the perfect example. Just to use it to illustrate. In Two Thousand and 72 00:05:25.250 --> 00:05:29.529 eleven that were a hundred and fifty Martech vendors and today I think the number. 73 00:05:29.769 --> 00:05:32.209 I've heard two things. They're see the five thousand vendors or they're sevenzero 74 00:05:32.730 --> 00:05:38.600 vendors, but the point is that's astronomical. There's a ton of competition in 75 00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:43.639 every category and you cannot rely on a unique product to cut through that noise. 76 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:46.000 And here's the last thing, not the last thing, but the last 77 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:49.949 thing on this riff I'm going on I'll say about having unique product is if 78 00:05:49.990 --> 00:05:56.670 you compete in a competitive space and you think you have a unique product, 79 00:05:57.110 --> 00:06:00.189 you the people at Your Company, your employees, your sales people, your 80 00:06:00.230 --> 00:06:03.660 marketers, those are probably some of the only people in the world who really 81 00:06:03.699 --> 00:06:09.660 understand the uniqueness of your product because they live and read your product. They 82 00:06:09.860 --> 00:06:14.540 know everything about it. That's different from your competitors. They probably know your 83 00:06:14.620 --> 00:06:18.370 competitors products inside and now they're spending their lives with the product. But when 84 00:06:18.449 --> 00:06:23.730 you introduce a buyer to your product for the first time, you know they're 85 00:06:23.810 --> 00:06:27.009 just taking a look at it. They can't tell the difference is so easy. 86 00:06:27.050 --> 00:06:30.329 It's it's kind of like telling the differences between twins. If you're a 87 00:06:30.490 --> 00:06:34.199 parent, you spend your life with your children, if you have twins, 88 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:39.120 and eventually you can tell the difference is very easily. But people who are 89 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:43.319 just meeting your twin children, they can't tell the differences is easily. It's 90 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:46.149 going to take them a long time to be able to easily discern the differences. 91 00:06:46.430 --> 00:06:51.350 And the same thing happens when you lead with your product to differentiate especially 92 00:06:51.430 --> 00:06:55.750 and be to be and especially in be to be technology today. Yeah, 93 00:06:56.149 --> 00:06:59.589 I love the twin energy. I must sell. So I love the little 94 00:06:59.670 --> 00:07:02.819 pig shell that you put on the on the Linkedin Utquali. It to twins 95 00:07:02.860 --> 00:07:06.220 with a number on. Yet this is quite fun. But and I actually 96 00:07:06.220 --> 00:07:11.620 have two of my best friends out twins, the two ladies, the identical 97 00:07:11.779 --> 00:07:15.060 twins, and I remember when I felt met them, I could not tell 98 00:07:15.100 --> 00:07:17.490 the difference. And then, obviously, as the spend more time with them, 99 00:07:17.529 --> 00:07:20.170 and you know, did you get my best friend? I was I 100 00:07:20.250 --> 00:07:24.370 could not one thought that people couldn't not tell the difference. And it's so 101 00:07:24.569 --> 00:07:27.410 true that you know, when you look at it with with an an expert, 102 00:07:27.529 --> 00:07:30.079 I you can't truly tell. You just like this, this looks similar 103 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:33.240 to me, but then when you get involved on the dead day today, 104 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:38.639 it's you almost feel offended people don't see the difference. You like, come 105 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:42.519 on, this is obvious. So that's that's probably telling a squad a lot. 106 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:46.430 But that analogy is great in term of the more you spend time, 107 00:07:46.589 --> 00:07:50.029 the more you are involving too something, the less what maybe, which you 108 00:07:50.069 --> 00:07:54.670 make prcive, as perceive as obvious, is obvious to the rest of the 109 00:07:54.750 --> 00:07:58.980 world and and I think that's a very strong statement and a very strong analogy. 110 00:07:59.180 --> 00:08:03.019 So in the article there is also something that caught my attention. You 111 00:08:03.139 --> 00:08:07.939 speak about the different way to differentiate yourself in the market. Use the Amazon 112 00:08:07.060 --> 00:08:11.500 example, with a ton of volumes and and very low margin, but they 113 00:08:11.540 --> 00:08:16.649 absolutely obviously doing extremely well as a business. You have the niche which other 114 00:08:16.649 --> 00:08:20.089 people probably get stuck into, being a small business, extra extra right now. 115 00:08:20.370 --> 00:08:24.089 Again, very interesting to see the different angles you are using and the 116 00:08:24.170 --> 00:08:28.600 categories. But moving down the article, you speak about dominating your competition and 117 00:08:30.199 --> 00:08:35.120 I guess when you speak about that you mean that the ultimate objective is for 118 00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:39.159 your prospect to see you as being unique and not even take the time or 119 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:43.669 take the opportunity to compare you to someone else or to put you in a 120 00:08:43.789 --> 00:08:46.909 category. Okay, and we know that, particularly when you deal with large 121 00:08:46.909 --> 00:08:54.389 organization, were large proclament team or processes around the proclament team, categories are 122 00:08:54.429 --> 00:08:56.539 really important for those gates they like to put between the books. Anyway, 123 00:08:56.700 --> 00:09:01.659 coming back to my question, Oh, can you make shure that's your prospect 124 00:09:01.779 --> 00:09:07.539 disqualify your competitors untirely and see your company as a strategic Bot. Now from 125 00:09:07.620 --> 00:09:11.850 the sales conversation. Well, I think that can make a few podcast episodes 126 00:09:11.970 --> 00:09:13.690 in itself, but I think we can definitely touch on them. Ye, 127 00:09:13.809 --> 00:09:18.090 here. I think the first thing you need to realize is, if you 128 00:09:18.169 --> 00:09:22.450 could sum up everything we've talked about so far, so far it is how 129 00:09:22.690 --> 00:09:26.480 you sell is just as important as what you sell. Maybe it's even how 130 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:28.679 you sell is more important than what you sell. became it because, again, 131 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:33.840 the perception of difference in your buyers mind is going to be created during 132 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:39.830 sales conversations, and sales communications not necessarily just having a raw, unique product 133 00:09:39.870 --> 00:09:43.149 and hoping they discover that uniqueness on themselves. But if you're sold on the 134 00:09:43.269 --> 00:09:46.429 idea that how you sell is more important than what you sell, then there 135 00:09:46.470 --> 00:09:50.190 are a few things you can do during your sales conversations to really box out 136 00:09:50.190 --> 00:09:54.139 of your competitors right out of the gate and get your buyer to not even 137 00:09:54.179 --> 00:09:56.779 see them in the pack of category, as you know. And I would 138 00:09:56.779 --> 00:10:03.379 say the first one is you need to tell a story about your customer, 139 00:10:03.659 --> 00:10:07.049 not your product, in such a way that threatens the stability of their status. 140 00:10:07.250 --> 00:10:11.490 Well, so perfect. And that's when that there are a few things 141 00:10:11.570 --> 00:10:15.210 working here. First of all, you're talking about your customer, not your 142 00:10:15.250 --> 00:10:18.690 problems. Another being attention. Second of all, you're talking about a problem 143 00:10:18.769 --> 00:10:22.960 that's relevant to them, so another extra pay attention. And third, if 144 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:26.840 you can tell a story that threatens that their status quote, it's going to 145 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:30.559 trigger what we call loss of version. And loss of version, in short, 146 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:35.750 is when it's the economic, behavioral, economic principle that people are twice 147 00:10:35.789 --> 00:10:41.269 as hard to work to avoid something and they are to gain something. And 148 00:10:41.389 --> 00:10:43.429 when you can tell a story in this way, now you've gotten a seed 149 00:10:43.509 --> 00:10:48.470 at the executive table. You've become much more strategic, while your competitors are 150 00:10:48.549 --> 00:10:52.940 tactical and pushing product features blow in the organization. So I'll give you like 151 00:10:52.980 --> 00:10:56.340 a one very short example of how to craft a story like this. Let's 152 00:10:56.340 --> 00:11:01.779 say you sell formaldehyde free furniture. So, for the unfamiliar, Formaldehyde is 153 00:11:01.860 --> 00:11:05.370 like this weird chemical that used to be built in the furnitures and it created 154 00:11:05.370 --> 00:11:09.490 all sorts of sicknesses and it was actually very common, and today still is 155 00:11:09.570 --> 00:11:15.450 common, for furniture to have formaldehyde. So a bad pitch, not a 156 00:11:15.529 --> 00:11:18.720 bad pitch, but a media or pitch if you're telling formaldehyde free furniture to 157 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:24.960 retailers is you say, Hey, we provide formaldehyde free furniture. It's green, 158 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:26.799 it's healthy, your customers are going to love it, you're going to 159 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:31.080 make more money. That's focused on your features and, to some extent, 160 00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:35.590 its, but just focused on your benefits. If that customer is already totally 161 00:11:35.669 --> 00:11:39.269 sold on the idea of having formaldehyde free, free furniture, than it might 162 00:11:39.429 --> 00:11:41.149 work, but if they are not, that pitch is going to fall flat. 163 00:11:41.590 --> 00:11:46.389 So here's an example of the pitch you can tell. That tells US 164 00:11:46.470 --> 00:11:50.820 story about the customer and threatens their status quote. And by the way, 165 00:11:50.899 --> 00:11:54.860 never use the words threatened status quote when you're on a sales called. People 166 00:11:54.019 --> 00:11:58.059 will not react all to that. This is probably a past line we're talking 167 00:11:58.059 --> 00:12:01.690 about, not without further do. Here's an example story you could tell. 168 00:12:01.009 --> 00:12:05.529 Just to come in quickly. I mean this is so true. We see 169 00:12:05.570 --> 00:12:09.129 that on a daily basis. So yeah, too, paractis really a focuses 170 00:12:09.169 --> 00:12:13.129 in the beginning of the conversation and the storytelling, and we've got a great 171 00:12:13.210 --> 00:12:16.559 episode that we recorded with with a gentleman actually also based in the bay area, 172 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:20.159 called can Red Ski, around around telling stories and now do you go 173 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:24.200 and he's got a layout, cake methodology be I did, which key it 174 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:28.519 wills all about it. So I thought that was great. But the story 175 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:31.830 is really key and I think I agree with you're saying. You can't trually 176 00:12:31.990 --> 00:12:35.549 tell people that you will, you will threaten them. But I think people 177 00:12:35.029 --> 00:12:41.350 enjoy being challenged and I think it's quite enjoyable to be in a cell speech, 178 00:12:41.629 --> 00:12:46.340 but when I need the cell speech, are really enjoy challenging preconservate this. 179 00:12:46.659 --> 00:12:50.539 Okay, so people may associate something with something else and there is non 180 00:12:50.659 --> 00:12:54.820 spoken objections, etc. Etc. But coming back to the first point that 181 00:12:54.940 --> 00:12:58.299 you made, I think if you are able to speak to a prospect, 182 00:12:58.340 --> 00:13:03.769 almost put yourself at their level by understanding what's happening in their function, what 183 00:13:03.929 --> 00:13:05.970 the challenge is on a day to day basis. Are. Obviously you don't 184 00:13:05.970 --> 00:13:09.129 want to make some statement that are too bold and maybe a little bit too 185 00:13:09.169 --> 00:13:13.840 risky for you, but kind of almost emphasize, with what they are going 186 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:18.720 through as a prospect, what they are potentially but the vertical, because we 187 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:22.159 took about the function, but it could be it could be the the industry. 188 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:24.639 You know, you could be looking at don't you know what's up penning 189 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:28.830 in that industry, etc. But relating to that in a cell speech as 190 00:13:28.870 --> 00:13:33.309 well as challenging what they are doing at the moment and then telling a little 191 00:13:33.350 --> 00:13:37.629 bit like what we discuss with that new story, about what could happen when 192 00:13:37.669 --> 00:13:41.659 it is executive properly. I think you become the first point of coal when 193 00:13:41.899 --> 00:13:45.740 there is an issue on the subject matter and they want your opinion. And 194 00:13:45.899 --> 00:13:50.700 as in a self speech or in a in a account management position, it's 195 00:13:50.740 --> 00:13:54.379 a beautiful position to be when you are the first person that your prospect or 196 00:13:54.419 --> 00:13:58.649 your clients will call to get information, to validate something or to discuss a 197 00:13:58.730 --> 00:14:03.450 pain point. I guess that's job done from a self perspective. You really 198 00:14:03.490 --> 00:14:05.809 managed to get that confidence on track. And when there is confidence in the 199 00:14:05.850 --> 00:14:09.720 sells process, people trust you. Then obviously the product needs to deliver, 200 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:15.720 but what a beautiful step it is to get the conversation going and put all 201 00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:18.799 the chances on your side to actually get a deal. Yeah, and there's 202 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:22.879 actually I have a specific tipt that you can use to put yourself on a 203 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:26.629 position like that, and this reks very well off of how you box out 204 00:14:26.669 --> 00:14:30.990 your competitors kind of ut the beginning, at the sales process, and a 205 00:14:31.190 --> 00:14:37.509 very simple thing that I see very few people doing is hie your products value 206 00:14:37.549 --> 00:14:43.379 proposition to a more strategic problem. That will elevate your strategic value in the 207 00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:46.179 buying organization. So here's an example. We do at call. One of 208 00:14:46.259 --> 00:14:52.179 the key use cases of gone is coaching. But when you talk about coaching 209 00:14:52.539 --> 00:14:54.970 and you use that as your value proposition, a lot of the Times you're 210 00:14:54.970 --> 00:15:01.009 going to get kicked down to frontline sales managers or sales enablement or great folks, 211 00:15:01.049 --> 00:15:05.610 but don't necessarily always have buying power because you've talked about a very tactical 212 00:15:05.690 --> 00:15:09.360 value proposition. Versus what we do now, and we still talk about coaching, 213 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:13.840 but one of the angles we take with enterprise customers is instead of time 214 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:18.399 going to coaching, we tie on to competitive selling, which is why we're 215 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:22.950 having this conversation right now. And when young tie on to hey going is 216 00:15:22.990 --> 00:15:26.149 a tool that's going to help you win more competitive feels, differentiate from your 217 00:15:26.230 --> 00:15:31.190 comp competition and ultimately dominate your market. Now the C suite or VP of 218 00:15:31.269 --> 00:15:35.740 sales, those people high up in the organization are going to see you as 219 00:15:35.899 --> 00:15:39.419 much more strategically important. Like you said, they're going to see you as 220 00:15:39.419 --> 00:15:43.019 a confidant if you've position to yourself correctly, and they're not going to be 221 00:15:43.100 --> 00:15:48.259 very likely to kick you down to lower levels in the organization. And, 222 00:15:48.740 --> 00:15:52.370 by the way, while you're while all of this is happening, what's most 223 00:15:52.409 --> 00:15:58.610 likely happening with your competitor is they're talking about something tactical, something product related, 224 00:15:58.850 --> 00:16:03.450 and they're struggling to get above the mid level range in the buying organization, 225 00:16:03.970 --> 00:16:06.639 while you have a seat at the executive table. So that kind of 226 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:11.720 summary Takeaway there is figure out a business problem or strategic initiative, hopefully a 227 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:17.919 repeatable strategic inefficiative that you can tie your value proposition to instead of like a 228 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:21.669 low level pack of one. Okay, well, that's bringing him a question 229 00:16:21.830 --> 00:16:26.029 to my minding them of a how would you run the first meeting with a 230 00:16:26.110 --> 00:16:29.190 prospect? Let's say is the first ever meeting age you've got with a prospect? 231 00:16:29.190 --> 00:16:33.019 Obviously it's a prospective organization. So as a selfs person, you want 232 00:16:33.059 --> 00:16:36.139 to engage with that person. So you've got the right accounts. You know 233 00:16:36.220 --> 00:16:38.379 that that accounts should do business with you. They may or may not using 234 00:16:38.419 --> 00:16:42.379 one of your competitor and you are discussing, you about to discuss with someone. 235 00:16:42.460 --> 00:16:48.210 We've got authority. How do you advise your customer to lead the first 236 00:16:48.250 --> 00:16:51.889 conversation? Would you say, okay, do a poot point presentation, or 237 00:16:52.129 --> 00:16:56.929 would you actually just go there, tonder lat off and have a conversation with 238 00:16:56.049 --> 00:17:00.929 the person, have a business conversation with them around the challenges that you believe 239 00:17:00.929 --> 00:17:04.160 they have? Then the challenge is the actually of and then how you could 240 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:07.000 potentially led them to to to some of these changes out. I would you 241 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:14.319 advise your clients to lead that first kind of row high level decision maker conversation? 242 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:18.829 Well, the first thing I would say is if it's your first meeting 243 00:17:18.950 --> 00:17:23.349 with an account in your meeting with somebody who's very senior, you probably missed 244 00:17:23.470 --> 00:17:27.789 the vote in the sense that you should have spend time with lower level people, 245 00:17:27.910 --> 00:17:33.740 doing some discovery research throughout your organization so that when you get this meeting 246 00:17:33.819 --> 00:17:37.740 with the senior buyer you are very well versed in the challenge is that that 247 00:17:37.859 --> 00:17:41.380 organization is basic. So the first thing I would say is spend some time 248 00:17:41.539 --> 00:17:47.089 researching the account talk to people within the account. Even lower level decision makers 249 00:17:47.130 --> 00:17:51.289 and influencers get time on their calendar so that when you get this initial meeting 250 00:17:51.369 --> 00:17:55.450 with a senior level by senior level I mean somebody you know who's at the 251 00:17:55.490 --> 00:18:00.079 sea level, vpsvp level. Now, assuming you've done that, when you 252 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.160 go into a meeting with this person, I would plan probably no more than 253 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:11.599 two or three well thought through diagnostic questions to validate some of the challenges you've 254 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:15.829 heard other parts in the organization, and then I would use that to spur 255 00:18:15.990 --> 00:18:19.990 the rest of the conversation, which should be an educational story about the problem 256 00:18:21.109 --> 00:18:23.789 that they're facing, that you've learned their facing, why their status close being 257 00:18:23.869 --> 00:18:27.859 threatened and why they need to move. As far as addressing your question about 258 00:18:27.859 --> 00:18:32.619 like would you do you know, a discovery call, power point or just 259 00:18:32.700 --> 00:18:36.539 have a conversation? My favorite thing to do is whiteboarding. I like to 260 00:18:37.220 --> 00:18:41.329 have whiteboard conversations with buyers where we're like illustrating things with markers kind of on 261 00:18:41.410 --> 00:18:45.049 the fly. A power point is sometimes a little too rigid. I don't 262 00:18:45.089 --> 00:18:48.930 necessarily I don't hate power point. I think a lot of sales and marketing 263 00:18:48.970 --> 00:18:52.930 people really hate powerpoint and I actually think it can be useful, but if 264 00:18:52.970 --> 00:18:56.440 you're well versed enough in the buyers problems, then I would stick with having 265 00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:00.880 a white boarding conversation. And to finally put you know, the last answer 266 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:03.839 to your question is I would not have a discovery call. What these types 267 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:07.079 of people. You're probably going to get kicked into the teeth if you're having 268 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:11.589 very asking them very generic questions, which is why I recommended you should go 269 00:19:11.789 --> 00:19:15.069 ask those questions to people who have a little more time and patients than they 270 00:19:15.109 --> 00:19:19.029 do. But that said, you should still kick off the conversation by asking 271 00:19:19.309 --> 00:19:23.460 you validating questions to make sure conversations going to be pointed at great auction. 272 00:19:23.740 --> 00:19:27.940 Absolutely, and from my perspective, the good news with the White Bird is 273 00:19:29.019 --> 00:19:32.140 when you're done with the meeting and you see the prospect standing up, taking 274 00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:36.180 the phone out and taking a picture of the white bomb, always a good 275 00:19:36.220 --> 00:19:41.289 indicator something went well in the process. I've also got another question that is 276 00:19:41.329 --> 00:19:45.329 coming from from from what you just mentioned in the the previous response, but 277 00:19:45.490 --> 00:19:49.210 the one before that. Previously in our conversation to the I mentioned procurement process, 278 00:19:49.289 --> 00:19:55.960 Etcetri set right. Reading your article about features and differentiation, differentiations sorry, 279 00:19:56.119 --> 00:19:57.799 you made a good point at some points. I think there is also 280 00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:03.599 a visual in the article about people building up spreadsheet to compile your features are 281 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:07.990 centers of feature. Okay, I've done that recently. You know, I've 282 00:20:07.029 --> 00:20:11.470 got I've got a baby and baby boy and obviously I want to get the 283 00:20:11.509 --> 00:20:17.390 best from the guests to push share possible for that baby. So you know, 284 00:20:17.430 --> 00:20:19.470 when you look at push, I'm just built up an excel spreadsheet and 285 00:20:19.589 --> 00:20:22.140 my wife is a finance director, so she's used. We are that sort 286 00:20:22.140 --> 00:20:26.740 of fakes. We work together. I do. Well, wait, how 287 00:20:26.900 --> 00:20:30.460 begging with be can we put it in the car, because you look good, 288 00:20:30.619 --> 00:20:32.740 you know, and then we had to like create all that. So 289 00:20:32.859 --> 00:20:34.619 it was we build up that spreadshet. So coming back to my question. 290 00:20:36.049 --> 00:20:38.369 So when we know that, when you get to procurement, it's actually quite 291 00:20:38.410 --> 00:20:41.970 difficult that, I find it in my experience, to sell the value to 292 00:20:42.089 --> 00:20:45.569 proclament because you are already bugged down into the features, you are boling into 293 00:20:45.609 --> 00:20:51.200 pricing and they just want I mean, we probably have some procomming people listening 294 00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:52.519 to that. PUSS guests will get me a wrong go. Don't take it 295 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:56.759 the wrong way, but it does upon pricing a either bit right. So 296 00:20:56.279 --> 00:21:03.039 at what stage of the decision making process do you advise your clients to stop 297 00:21:03.710 --> 00:21:08.349 that differentiating sets conversation? Well, you need to do it right out of 298 00:21:08.390 --> 00:21:11.630 the gate. You need to approach. It's not a conversation, it's a 299 00:21:12.269 --> 00:21:18.700 differentiation happens throughout the entire sales process. So it needs to happen on your 300 00:21:18.740 --> 00:21:25.940 first meeting and if you're getting so I'm not unrealistic enough to know that we're 301 00:21:25.980 --> 00:21:27.460 all going to have to deal with procurement. But I will say this. 302 00:21:27.859 --> 00:21:33.170 You can avoid procurement a lot more if you're doing things correctly upstream and the 303 00:21:33.250 --> 00:21:38.329 sales cycle. So if you're having conversations that are tied to a strategic initiative 304 00:21:38.529 --> 00:21:44.730 and your building urgency by telling a story that introduces loss of version and you've 305 00:21:44.890 --> 00:21:48.559 really gotten on the top one, two or three priorities of the C suitee 306 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:53.000 or BP level priority list, they're only going to kick you down to procurement 307 00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:57.480 when they're absolutely ready to buy. They've better everything in the sales process and 308 00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:02.230 they're just telling percurement, hey, we want this, here's the value. 309 00:22:02.710 --> 00:22:07.309 Just go get this contract sign now. Of course, Percureman is compensated in 310 00:22:07.470 --> 00:22:11.670 some cases on negotiating and trying to reduce prices as much as they can. 311 00:22:11.349 --> 00:22:15.940 So again, what you're going to have to do is not only are you 312 00:22:15.019 --> 00:22:18.980 going to have to sell your champion buyers on the value, in our why, 313 00:22:19.059 --> 00:22:22.539 of your platform, arm or solution, but you're also going to have 314 00:22:22.740 --> 00:22:29.140 to equip them to have that same conversation internally. You have to arm your 315 00:22:29.259 --> 00:22:33.089 buyers to be able to justify why your price is higher than your editors and 316 00:22:33.289 --> 00:22:37.410 justify the value. So buying today. That's that could make a whole other 317 00:22:37.450 --> 00:22:42.970 podcast episode it self. Buying today happens so much more internally in the buying 318 00:22:44.009 --> 00:22:45.960 organization then you see it when it was like, you know, the only 319 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:49.640 time people make decisions. Was One of our facetoface with the cellar. Now 320 00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:53.680 there are so many behind the scenes conversations going on in the buying organization and 321 00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:57.670 that's really where sales people have to up their game and get help from product 322 00:22:57.750 --> 00:23:03.269 marketing to do what I call fire enable we're all familiar with sales enablement, 323 00:23:03.390 --> 00:23:07.349 to equipping sellers with the right tools, collateral and processes get feels across the 324 00:23:07.390 --> 00:23:11.349 finish line. You also have to provide buyer enablement, which is how do 325 00:23:11.470 --> 00:23:18.099 we enable the fortified decision makers in the buying organization to really come to consensus 326 00:23:18.579 --> 00:23:23.539 and buy and go through their internal processes smoothly? Okay, so I've you 327 00:23:23.619 --> 00:23:29.250 seen a love you have a weakness of you ELP the clients when the conversation, 328 00:23:29.329 --> 00:23:33.170 it's already is already bug down in what I would called the naty gritty, 329 00:23:33.289 --> 00:23:37.130 to feature the details the product that give sense, bridget, or that 330 00:23:37.650 --> 00:23:42.000 I've viewing, will see in witness or add someone to actually turn that back 331 00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:48.680 around, to elevate the conversation back to okay, let's lead with differentiate ourselves, 332 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:51.400 differentiate us. I think that's get. May maybe be what you just 333 00:23:51.559 --> 00:23:55.869 mentioned about giving the bayous almost like I was all dimensioned. Do Look at 334 00:23:55.990 --> 00:23:57.470 Outos, a way to loo get things on those all way to have invate 335 00:23:57.549 --> 00:24:03.109 things. But have you ever seen that in practice, changing a decision when 336 00:24:03.589 --> 00:24:07.069 the cycle was already well on the way? And announcer prevention is worth a 337 00:24:07.190 --> 00:24:12.819 pound of here. Yeah, the the question. I'm asking the question because 338 00:24:12.819 --> 00:24:15.740 I know when you already dip. Yeah, and I'm not going to Shir 339 00:24:15.819 --> 00:24:19.420 get that's but that definitely needs to be stat like what you do early in 340 00:24:19.460 --> 00:24:22.940 the sales process really sets the trajectory for your deal. But if you do 341 00:24:23.140 --> 00:24:29.369 find yourself in this precarious situation where the buyers pigeon hold you on to spreadsheet 342 00:24:29.450 --> 00:24:33.170 and comparing you to three other competitors and they're playing the SPEC war and they're 343 00:24:33.210 --> 00:24:37.009 granting you all down on price because you guys are pretty much at parody with 344 00:24:37.089 --> 00:24:40.440 the other at least from their perspective, what you need to do, your 345 00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:45.240 only chance of hell at turning that situation around without really dropping your pants on 346 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:48.920 price, is educating, getting your buyers take a step back, get them 347 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:52.359 on a meeting and say hey, I want to kind of press the reset 348 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:55.390 on. I think there are some things that I have not told you during 349 00:24:55.430 --> 00:24:59.069 the sales process that I probably should have told you, and I think it's 350 00:24:59.069 --> 00:25:02.150 very important for me to tell you these things and if you get them on 351 00:25:02.230 --> 00:25:04.589 the calendar, if you get that opportunity, that platform to tell them something 352 00:25:04.710 --> 00:25:10.819 new, now it is your time to UN teach them about everything they can 353 00:25:11.019 --> 00:25:14.619 learned throughout the sales process. And where I would start, as I would 354 00:25:14.619 --> 00:25:19.259 think about what is your winning differentiator and what kind of Edgy cation can you 355 00:25:19.460 --> 00:25:25.009 give them to value that? That been beyond everything they're looking at in terms 356 00:25:25.049 --> 00:25:27.450 of a spreadsheet? So I'll give you an example. One of our differentiators 357 00:25:27.490 --> 00:25:32.849 at gone, what of our like product level differentiators, is we can analyze 358 00:25:33.250 --> 00:25:37.720 to a tee what your best sales people are saying and doing on their sales 359 00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:41.000 calls different but if I just tell a liar that's our differentiator and they don't 360 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:45.839 necessarily value that, then they don't care. They're just flapping that on their 361 00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:49.069 spreadsheet. It's another row on specially and they're comparing you. But if I 362 00:25:49.150 --> 00:25:53.630 take a step back and I first educate them about the problem that feature solves 363 00:25:53.990 --> 00:25:57.390 and why it's important, and I say something like Hey, I want to 364 00:25:57.390 --> 00:26:02.029 tell you a story about this performance that that this bell curve we see in 365 00:26:02.109 --> 00:26:04.940 sales and just about every sales leaders familiar with it. You know you've got 366 00:26:06.019 --> 00:26:10.339 ten or twenty percent of your sales force attaining a hundred and fifty percent of 367 00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:14.500 quota and it feels so amazing to see that. But it's so frustrating is 368 00:26:14.579 --> 00:26:18.730 that everybody else on your sales force, the other eighty percent of your wraps, 369 00:26:18.049 --> 00:26:22.569 they're a little bit below quota and they are canceling out the overachievement of 370 00:26:22.690 --> 00:26:27.529 your best Reps. so this next feature I'm about to introduce you to is 371 00:26:27.650 --> 00:26:33.119 position to solve that problem. It's position to close this Delta between your best 372 00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:37.400 trips and everybody else. And let me demonstrate for that or demonstrate that for 373 00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:41.279 you. So I guess if you listen to the story I just hold, 374 00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:47.630 I lit differentiation on its head. Instead of leading with my differentiating feature, 375 00:26:47.990 --> 00:26:52.349 I led to do that feature and I started with the problem that it solves 376 00:26:52.670 --> 00:26:56.789 and I made sure the customer value back. Introduce the different here, and 377 00:26:56.950 --> 00:27:00.539 that is going to change their perspective on Tom parrying all these products together do 378 00:27:00.700 --> 00:27:03.619 not make sense. That was like a very long winded way he explain. 379 00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:07.819 Yeah, I think it makes perfect sense to me. I mean the I 380 00:27:07.940 --> 00:27:10.700 hadn't know, like example, I read. I was just thinking about it 381 00:27:10.900 --> 00:27:15.059 actually, as well as you answering my question, there is a great book 382 00:27:15.619 --> 00:27:18.369 that is college challenge or sell and that's from the I think it's from the 383 00:27:18.410 --> 00:27:22.650 consultancy Boston Group, and we love that methodology. is about taking the control 384 00:27:22.690 --> 00:27:27.329 of the cell cycle, challenging the preconceivate these or the prospect but also teaching 385 00:27:27.410 --> 00:27:32.839 them something or educating them, because teaching me sound a little bit, little 386 00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:36.039 bit too much. And and in that book they've got an example of I 387 00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:40.039 believe it was a ladium. May Be paraphrasing a little bit the story here, 388 00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:41.880 because he was a while back since I read that story. But she 389 00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:45.109 just lost a deal, or company lost a deal, and what that company 390 00:27:45.230 --> 00:27:49.109 was doing was off his funiture and they just lasted into a competitor. They 391 00:27:49.150 --> 00:27:52.630 receive the goal thing. Look, we won't walk with you. We've been 392 00:27:52.670 --> 00:27:56.390 all of your furniture. Someone else is coming. We've got the plan with 393 00:27:56.549 --> 00:27:59.500 them, etc. Etc. We moving forward with this, guys. So 394 00:27:59.619 --> 00:28:02.299 she just pick up diffront to the clients and say well, you've been a 395 00:28:02.380 --> 00:28:04.619 clients for I don't know how many else. What I would like to do 396 00:28:04.779 --> 00:28:07.500 is to give you a certain minutes of my time, one off my times 397 00:28:07.539 --> 00:28:11.660 for free, where I can't come down look at what does suggesting, because 398 00:28:11.700 --> 00:28:14.890 I know you and I know you're on it's were talking about something slightly different 399 00:28:14.930 --> 00:28:18.170 here. We talking maybe about a and like saving an account rather than acquiring 400 00:28:18.210 --> 00:28:22.529 a new account. But basically the story goes that. She goes there and 401 00:28:22.609 --> 00:28:26.289 she looked at the suggestion from the other companions. Look, what I would 402 00:28:26.289 --> 00:28:27.799 suggest you do is as them to do that, as them to do that. 403 00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:32.480 If I was in your shoes, we see that open space increase of 404 00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:37.720 productivity by approximatively celty person. So really, for that team in that part 405 00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:41.000 of your office, you should not have partitioning, but you should have some 406 00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:44.470 sort of that space in that space, maybe you should have like a lounge 407 00:28:44.589 --> 00:28:48.750 type of area somewhere what people can relax or have a bit more of a 408 00:28:48.190 --> 00:28:52.309 laidback meeting, etc. Etc. Basically, by doing that, the story 409 00:28:52.430 --> 00:29:00.180 goes that she get the business back because she inspired the clients with IDs, 410 00:29:00.380 --> 00:29:04.019 with what's happening, with stats of what she's seen in the market and by 411 00:29:04.099 --> 00:29:11.210 giving those almost this this advice as a gesture of good will for saying Good 412 00:29:11.250 --> 00:29:15.450 Bay to a customer, the customer realized that actually they could have much better 413 00:29:15.049 --> 00:29:18.329 management from that person and went back to and she got the business back. 414 00:29:18.450 --> 00:29:22.210 So I think, I think there is. There is lots of way to 415 00:29:22.250 --> 00:29:26.640 go around things, but it's about sometimes it's also about the selfs person doing 416 00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:30.559 the Extremiz. You know, we often see sells people that wants to get 417 00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:34.279 very, very late in the self process. Other the individual in seller tell 418 00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:38.430 you came. I want a very well qualified opportunity to walk on. I 419 00:29:38.509 --> 00:29:42.029 think that's all good, but the later you get to the game, the 420 00:29:42.109 --> 00:29:45.910 less you can influence the game from from from our perspective, and I'd like 421 00:29:45.950 --> 00:29:49.230 to my final question to you. I'd like to just get your sorts on 422 00:29:49.309 --> 00:29:53.420 that very briefly. Well, first of all, I agree with your influence 423 00:29:53.539 --> 00:29:56.700 in the sale cycle happens at the beginning and maybe the middle of not so 424 00:29:56.779 --> 00:30:00.460 much the end. Things start to really crystallize toward the end and what you 425 00:30:00.500 --> 00:30:03.700 do early on really sets the trajectory. But I do want to refer on 426 00:30:03.819 --> 00:30:07.289 what you said a minute ago about that story you told. If you think 427 00:30:07.289 --> 00:30:11.769 about what that lady was selling, it was completely different than what her competitors 428 00:30:11.849 --> 00:30:17.049 were selling. So her competitors were selling what she was selling was productivity, 429 00:30:17.250 --> 00:30:21.680 in creativity for her, for the workforce and the something of the clients and 430 00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:25.079 on the standing of what team is doing what, because she is she was 431 00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:27.720 on the sounding the clients, or she was also a bull to provide this 432 00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:33.240 advice. But yeah, absolutely, and also those can be applied at any 433 00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:37.390 part of the sale cycle. That's not just an account saving technique. Had 434 00:30:37.470 --> 00:30:42.029 she led with that story, she probably wouldn't have to add to go save 435 00:30:42.109 --> 00:30:45.630 the accounts begin with. But that's a traummendous way to differentiate. I love 436 00:30:45.710 --> 00:30:49.579 that story. Good what thanks for that, Chris. The conversation today was 437 00:30:49.660 --> 00:30:55.500 really in safe for any really interesting. We always ask at this stage of 438 00:30:55.579 --> 00:31:02.339 the podcast our guests to give our audience a few ways to get in touch 439 00:31:02.339 --> 00:31:06.089 with them. So what we would like to understand crisis. What is the 440 00:31:06.130 --> 00:31:10.009 best way to get hold of Chris ad gone if someone wants to take the 441 00:31:10.049 --> 00:31:14.650 conversation at we had today away with you, or of that one one interaction 442 00:31:14.730 --> 00:31:18.210 with you to carry on the conversation we had to day? Definitely linkedin. 443 00:31:18.450 --> 00:31:21.720 I spend more time than I should on Linkedin, so you can just find 444 00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:26.039 me. I think I'm the only Chris Wor lab on Linkedin's pretty weird unique 445 00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:30.799 name, but you need the spelling. It's CHR I guess our loo be 446 00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:34.549 as a boy. So just pop those letters into the search box. Send 447 00:31:34.589 --> 00:31:40.710 of your request. I'm happy to all the conversation start right what it was 448 00:31:40.990 --> 00:31:44.269 great having you to them to podcast. Chris, many things for you all 449 00:31:44.349 --> 00:31:48.140 time, and a those you're mentioning a couple of times, I could doing 450 00:31:48.180 --> 00:31:49.539 those. All podcaster are on this. We could do on those. Up 451 00:31:49.539 --> 00:31:52.579 pudcasts are on that. So clearly you want to receive our fellow Zo invitation, 452 00:31:52.900 --> 00:31:56.740 which we would make sure you're doing the new Fud show right. Yeah, 453 00:31:56.819 --> 00:31:59.380 this was an absolute last thank you so much for having me on. 454 00:31:59.819 --> 00:32:06.369 Thank you, Chris. operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technology 455 00:32:06.450 --> 00:32:12.609 companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhouse 456 00:32:12.930 --> 00:32:15.920 has existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus, 457 00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:22.680 agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales. 458 00:32:23.319 --> 00:32:30.990 See How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been 459 00:32:30.069 --> 00:32:35.549 listening to be tob revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, 460 00:32:35.829 --> 00:32:38.549 subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much 461 00:32:38.549 --> 00:32:40.150 for listening. Until next time,

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