Episode Transcript
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You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping software executives
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stay on the cutting edge of sales
and marketing in their industry. Let's get
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into the show. Hi, welcome
to be to bureau of a new acceleration.
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My name is onion, with you, and I'm here today with ther
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though and Speaker Louis. Good Emma, have you been doing me good?
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Right, thank you for having me
on the program it's an absolute pleasure.
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So today we will be talking about
bully marketing framework that you have developed.
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But before we go into detail,
can you please tell us a bit more
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about yourself and your journey in the
marketing world? Sure so. I owned
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and ran and and Marketing Agency for
about a dozen years. We did a
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lot of work. This is from
ninety eight to about two thousand and nine.
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When I had a exit from it. I sold it. We did
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a lot of work with IBM,
millions of dollars of work with IBM,
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Boston, Globe, EMC other major
companies, and then we pivoted and became
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assass web development agency with our own
content management system, because I wanted to
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have more of a recurring revenue model. Sure and that's what gave the company
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a lot of value when I sold
it. Then I'd was VP of business
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development for two other midsides agencies,
working with large companies and and some SMB's,
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but companies like Philips healthcare and other
major companies of that word. And
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the last four or five years now
I've head it up again my own consultancy
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and agency revenue and Associates, and
we work with a range of companies from
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startups to multi billion dollar companies.
One of the services we provide that probably
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would be of more interest to some
of your clients or your audience is working
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with companies, software companies, on
empowering their channel partners absolutely, you know,
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making a lot of companies. They
may have a few great partners like
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a censure or adobe, who are, you know, terriffic and and really
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nail their marketing and know how to
go to market, but they may have
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dozens or hundreds of small and midsize
channel partners who actually aren't very a depth
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at their own marketing and could drive
a lot more revenue for that company,
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for the software company, if they
were stronger at that. And so that's
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something that were one of the ways
that we work with companies. Well,
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you know what, we need to
sit up another station just to speak about
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that. They believe, because this
is such, I guess, a paint
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point. I don't think it's a
problem as such, because everybody's already everybody's
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adding solution to it. But you
are right, empowering partners, getting partners
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to do something, and we also
feel for the partner when we walk with
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them, and we walk Pretty Grizzy
with quite a few partners distribute to so
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you know, the traditional, the
traditional channel, our Om type of partnership
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and it's difficult for those guys.
It is difficult to move the needle and
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getting support is is really important and
powering them is very important. Taking the
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ends and helping them to close business
is also very important. So I think
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we should keep that on the side
and really have a full on conversation.
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We will contact you again with to
set up those up. Put Gass on
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that one, because this is a
subject that we are really passionate about and,
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as you said, this is a
subject that is probably extremely interesting for
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some of our audience and we know
it because we talked about it every day.
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We speak about it every day.
Well, it is one of the
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areas where you know my the balls
I approach, which is what my book
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is about, the bullside marketing approach, really is applicable to a lot of
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those companies and it's really a framework
for them to start to kind of an
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on ramp to modern marketing for companies
that that aren't really doing it yet obsolutely
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or aren't doing it very effectively or
fully in the way that some of the
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venture back startups or the software enterprise
companies are doing it. I'm glad that
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you speak about your book. So
Bulls I marketing, the book that you
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restantly launched, from our perspective's essentially
explain the frame walk you've developed to generate
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quick wins for small and mid sized
businesses. Okay, but can you please
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take a few, a few minutes
to tell us more about the Bulls I
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marketing framework? Look sure. So
let me just give you know for one
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minute, give a little background of
why I came up with it or how
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I came up with it. You
know, ray, the marketing landscape,
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the marketing world, change is very, very rapidly and what worked ten years
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ago may not work at all today, or even what was working five years
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ago, and what I was seeing
was that approach is like inbound marketing or
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social media, organic social media marketing. We're not producing results for many companies
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unless they make it extraordinary efforts in
those areas. And and then, as
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I did research on it, I
saw all sorts of data around this too,
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around how the search world is narrowing
more and more. Google searches narrow
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more and more around a few major
brands, a few major companies in each
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industry. How, starting in two
thousand and thirteen, the social media platforms
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radically reduce the amount of exposure that
they give to the organic posts from brands.
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So, you know, whereas five
years ago ten or twenty percent of
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followers might have seen the organic posts
from a company, today it's more like
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one or two percent. Yeah,
and and so those channels weren't really driving
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results for companies, but other programs
were. And and I was seeing in
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a lot of these channel partners are
a lot of small and midsize companies and
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SMB's or, as they're often called
in Europe, Sim's, are the heart
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of the economy. There's in the
US there's more than three times as many
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people working for SMB's as there are
working for enterprise companies. So it's a
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huge, huge part of the economy. And yet I was seeing how many
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of them had really underinvested in marketing
and the marketing landscape had become so complex
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they really just didn't know how to
get in the game. So the Bulls
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eye approach is a three phase approach
to ramping up a marketing program and getting
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to the point where the adobees or
the you know, the drifts or the
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hub spots or the venture back software
companies are. And so in the first
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phase companies take advantage of what I
call their existing marketing assets that many companies
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don't even realize they have. Absolutely
that's very sure death. And so,
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for example, one of those and
the really sophisticated marketers were listening to this
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will say well, of course,
and yes, of course for them,
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but not for frankly, from the
research I've done, not for eighty percent
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of the B tob world. So, for example, email marketing lists are
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a hugely pop powerful tool for companies
and yet many companies very rarely email,
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have any segmentation, have any regular
email program Kinsey says that email marketing is
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forty times times more powerful than social
media which has been my experience, and
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yet you see this being really under
used. You have websites that don't have
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strong messaging, don't have any calls
to action, don't have conversion opportunities,
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and so almost everybody who comes to
them, you know, they come and
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go and the company has no idea
who they are or how they can start
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to engage with them. They don't
have accountbase marketing programs, they don't have
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strong alignment between sales and marketing within
the company, and so all of these
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and more are the center of the
Bulls eye programs that I talked about in
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my book that can make really big
differences really quickly and inexpensively. These aren't
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things. An email program doesn't cost
a whole lot to do. You can
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get a you know, a tool
like mail chimp or constant contact, you
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know, for tenzero email addresses you
can send as many times as you want
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to for less than a hundred dollars
a month. Same thing with making improvements
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to the website or adding conversion opportunities
or calls to action, don't tend to
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be very expensive at all, or
improving sales and marketing alignment and and even
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doing outreach and and targeted account programs. A lot of those are really inexpensive
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or free and and companies can see
results from those in weeks or months,
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whereas a program like inbound or organic
social they may not see results for,
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frankly, years. Then in the
second ring of the Bulls Eye, you
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use intent data to target the companies
that are in market now, because our
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markets are much smaller than we think, because maybe only ten percent of our
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target market is actually looking to buy
what we're selling right now. Okay,
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and you know, ray, it's
very hard to sell to someone who doesn't
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want to buy. Yeah, and
so using various types of intent data to
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really hyper focus the marketing programs around
identifying those companies that are in market now,
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whether that's through search advertising, you
know, and based on their search
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behavior, or whether that's through tracking
how they're interacting with you and your content
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in your website or using third party
intent data, using that to go after
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the best opportunities to close soon.
And then in the third phase is where
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you do the long term awareness and
brand building programs like display advertising and social
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media and in bound marketing and blogging
and so forth. That can produce results
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in the long run, but are
not where most companies should be focusing their
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initial effort. Absolutely so that's that's
the Bulls I approach and in the book,
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you know, and just the first
couple chapters, I lay that out.
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But then I go into a lot
of detail on about twenty different channels
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with lots of best practices, tips
and examples from small to very large companies
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how they're doing successful email marketing or
account Bas marketing or search advertising or these
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other programs. And that's very important
because at the end of the day you
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will be short prised about the number
of people wattning us. We have and
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I can't base approach. Some people
cuit account base setting because it's driven by
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cells. Some clital can base marketing
because it's driven by marketing, but it's
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actually sometimes a bit disjointed. You
have a good sales guy doing some good
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walk on his account but he is
the only one out of a team of
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ten, ten individuals. Or you'll
have a good marketing person that will actually
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do some fantastic walking. I don'tifying
intelligence, I don't if I interest,
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but then then that marketing person will
need a sells person to follow up on
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that interest. We've seen a one
of our clans. I won't mention the
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name. Having fifteen touches, so
fifteen responses through different elements. So it
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could be some of them was direct
marketing, some of them was people reaching
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a certain score within the marketing automation
solution and some of them was participation to
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event. Basically, of those three
months pired that fifteen touches, fifteen unique
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so it was fifteen different individuals in
one large, big bank. Okay,
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Big Bang that you know about,
everybody knows about, but it's a very
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big bang. The prime that the
eye is that they're insight team or their
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field cells team or whatever, could
see that data was doing nothing with it
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because they were are the perception was
at the level of individual making the statues,
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to level of individual showing interest was
to junior in the organization. They
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were technical people, if you will, because we are in needy to be
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software ward, and they just look
at them on a very individual basis.
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So when we realize that we just
said will look, there is something going
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on. You know, we look
at the data and we always try to
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make sense of the data. So
and we turn that around. So we
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turn it around by saying, okay, we had fifteen different indication that someone
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in that company is looking into something. That's is a massive coincidence, right,
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and it's a pure cult of luck. Oh, in the one thousand
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ninety and nine percent of the case, which is, you know, it's
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that someone at the top is looking
at something that goes downe. Into the
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the organic round, that goes down
into the organization, and someone at the
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bottom is doing some research on thing. Basically, what we managed to do
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is to go back up the organization
to end up with the sill level person
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that was making a decision and basically
we'll approach them with a very soft approach.
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By Sing Lo Hreis that lots of
your team up doing some research.
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The all seemed to be researching the
same thing. It's all great, but
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we thought that we will come to
you. There is clearly an intense to
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solve a problem. Can you tell
us more about your problem? What we
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are able to do versus, you
know, for that vendors that we worked
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with, is actually to plug theirselves
team with that sell level senior person at
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the on stage of their fact finding, Solution Finding Journey, okay, which
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meant that they wiable to influence the
rest of the seal cycle. Okay,
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so I guess what I'm trying to
say is it all dose elements are important,
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but there is also as interaction of
sharing the information and most importantly,
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as to your point, is how
do you do it? And I think
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there is lots of contents for markets, for sales people that speak about account
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base, advertising and everything, but
I don't actually tell you what successful they
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don't really tell you how to do
it. You've got to buy something else
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to do it. So I believe
that's it's very important to give some practical
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advice rather than just speaking about the
theory. Yeah, Yobo, because that's
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really make a difference for your readouls, a belief. Well, that's and
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you've given a great example there of, you know, something that would be
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in the second phase of the Bulls
Eye, the second ring in the Bulls
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Ie. You know, seeing that
intent data of fifteen different people coming to
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your website from the same company,
seeing that surge and interest at the company
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and then acting on it. And
you know this. You know, I'm
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sure, since I've been on the
agency side, is essentially my entire career,
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and you're on the agency side,
you get inside into how a lot
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of different companies operate, and even
very large companies can have lots of challenges
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around lots of these programs. For
example, is working with software company that
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was around a three hundred million dollar
company and they had a great misalignment between
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sales and marketing. And you know, they told me that it typically took
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one the two weeks for sales to
follow up on a hot lead that marketing
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would send over. That's right,
wasn't that? This wasn't someone who would
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downloaded a white paper. Yeah,
this is someone who said I'm interested and
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you know that lead is dead at
that. Well, and it's upsetting.
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It's like, I mean we've all
done it. We've all gone on to
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a website and as for something,
it could be a call back, it
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could be something, whatever it is, you know, let's say called back
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like a very minimum thing. If
you don't get that called back quickly,
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it does upset me. And if
I do it with two or three different
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providers, we are called me back
first. He is likely to get my
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business. No, absolutely, I
want that right. I mean I'm completely
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different from business, but I'm doing
some walk on my house at the moment
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right and build us fantastic you know
we've got we made some build does they
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all do some fantastic qualk? They've
got all a fantastic pot for you.
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Two of them are terrible at communicating. Two of them almost make me feel
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that they don't want our business.
It's a long time to respond and I
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think it's very important to strike the
eye on when he's hut. But I
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guess that whole conversation that's who having
right now is leading me nicely to my
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next question. And what I want
to talk to you about, Louis,
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is around written on investment. It's
about, you know, you've seen through
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your career and through what you are
doing and through you know, the ID
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behind bulls eye marketing. I'm I'm
sure you've seen lots of people implementing all
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the strategy effectively and walking effectively with
the sense team. But what should be
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the expectation income of from the perspective
of Freeton Investment? I would you measure,
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and you have been practice us to
share them, of what should be
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expected? Sure. So let me
just say one thing before I talk about
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Roi. Yeah, and that is
about what is the biggest challenge for companies
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who are undertaking you know, this
or similar efforts, and that's really executing.
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And so you know, I can
come up with the strategy. You
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can come up with the strategy,
but especially if a company is just like
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a channel partner, hasn't been aggressively
marketing and realizes they do need to market,
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but at the same time they need
to make a commitment of some resources,
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which often may not be very much, it may be just to what
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seems to us like a small amount
of time to review and and give their
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input and approve and so forth.
But the execution is where so many companies
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fall down on this, even on
the very simplest things, as I said,
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like a company that takes one or
two weeks for sales to respond to
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a good in bound lead. In
terms of the ROI, so you know
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there are companies, startups and smaller
companies which, like some of the channel
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partner size companies, where we've increased
revenue dramatically in just a year or two,
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like doubling or more. There are
other come situations where part of the
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beauty of the center of the Bulls
eye is that those programs cost almost nothing,
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as I was saying before, and
so the Roi I've worked with companies
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where email became their number one channel
for new leads and sales and cost them
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almost nothing, where they improve their
website and added conversion, you know,
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added calls to Action and improve the
conversion and it may immediately doubled the number
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of website leads that they were getting. I'm a big, big proponent of
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direct sales outreach, of marketing and
sales, whether you call it account base
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marketing or count base sales or or
whatever targeted account programs. But where you
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you say here are the twenty,
five or fifty accounts that we're really going
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to go after and working on the
research and then approaching them with content and
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materials and ways to get the appointment, ways to get in the door.
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I think for many be to be
companies that can be one of the fastest
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and most cost effective ways and that's
been my experience in working with companies to
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generate more revenue. So you know, part of the the beauty of the
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Bulls eye approach is the center of
the Bulls eye and the customer is at
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the center of the Center and understanding
the customer and what drives are buying decisions
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and and so forth. But the
center of the Bulls eye is very low
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cost and so very high Roi.
And it's in the Sen second ring where
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you start to, you know,
get into more money and where, you
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know, maybe more a little more
challenged in terms of, you know,
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measuring the Roi, because, as
you know, attribution is a complex question.
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I always is. Yet absolutely once
you get the full multi channel program
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going, you know, then you
get into the more complex issues of attribution.
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But initially companies tendency very good Roi
from those center of the Bulls eye
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programs and even the second ring.
Yeah, we're in the business of helping
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companies to engage with the target market. But on the very seldsy you know,
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as you say, that appointment element
is really important for our clients.
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They want that appointment, they want
to qualify the opportunity, they want our
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activity to be very close to revenue. I mean, if that it's critical
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to have a proper marketing strategies.
If we are the bull's eye, is
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fantastic. We've got lots of things
revolving around us and and I see your
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activity and marketing walking together and to
end we get clues, we get information,
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we get intelligence from marketing, we
get intent and then all that can
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create a story. It's question of
having someone there and maybe you know we
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speak about a function that that business
development function. What actually spoke about with
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one of our guests recently, David
Delenny. We spoke about the chief Business
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Development Officer. So that person that
sits between the CMO and the sea row
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and it's supposed to get the glue, is supposed to join the dot and
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get do supportnities walked on up to
a stage where they can be passed on,
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but it is you know, you
cannot someone doing business development on their
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own from nothing, from a list
of accounts, from an excellent spreadsheet,
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from the yellow pages, from Google
right, the run rate will probably get
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to a plateau and you can't increase
their performance. Then you add the marketing,
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the smart marketing intent, marketing,
emails, marketing, I can base
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marketing approaches. All those tools can
really support that business development person to increase
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the productivity in drastically and I think
that's really what it's all about. The
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Human Lement is still very important in
and having a good business development person,
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but if you feed them, if
you give them tools in the arsenal,
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you equip them to really get better
and we're talking about being better quarter on
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quarter, and we see that a
lot because, like you, we've got
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the chance to work with a white
spectrum of organization. Organization already have a
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very complex technology stack versus people who
are seas funding them, got nothing and
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the world. That is the oyster. And we can really see with those
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guys moving up to Serry Abcdipoor acquisition, what a journey's been. You know,
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when you look back, you said, well, you know, we
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start to day and then we managed
to increase all productivt and we've done that.
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Who else to some of hat to
well supples do we send? People
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look pretty managed to if we faice
people because we don't walk, I'll dough.
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We Walk Small Toe and I think
that's please with about it's about walking
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small toe. Yeah, and,
as I said, it's about executing.
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You know, we have a term
in the US. I don't know if
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you use the same term in in
the UK or Europe, first responders yet.
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And you know, first responders are
like the police or the fire people
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or the emergency medical people who are
on the scene of an incident, you
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know, some sort of tragedy.
But I use that term and about a
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point you were making before about salespeople, that sales people need to be first
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responders, that salesperson who, and
there's lots of data on this, you
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know, the salesperson who responds and
in five or ten minutes has a much
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higher chance of winning a deal than
the salesperson who responds even an hour later.
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And it's something I learned from a
client. I first heard this from
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a client who had software in the
hospitality industry and they had one of the
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things that they had was a portal
where organizations could post that they wanted to
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do a conference or an event and
then hotels and conference centers would would see
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those opportunities and bid on them,
and they said that the company, the
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hotel or conference center that responded first
one over fifty percent of the deals.
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And so even that simple of improvement
in what a company does can have a
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dramatic impact on the kind of revenue
that they can generate. And you know,
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I sometimes compare it to marketing with
exercise. When I saw that you
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like to do cycling, as do
I. Yeah, and you know there's
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a lot of research that if you
do two and a half hours of exercise
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a week it has huge health benefits
for people. And yet in the US
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only about twenty percent of people do
two and a half hours of exercise a
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week. And you know, it's
been promoted over and over again. And
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I've done research where I looked at
three hundred fifty one smb be tob companies
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with about fifty to Azero employees.
So these were not, you know,
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Solo printers, these were not small
startups, these were established be to be
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companies and I looked at their marketing
programs. I have a nine point digital
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marketing score card and there was a
huge difference between the software companies, where
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the median was that they were using
to seven of the nine programs, and
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companies in all other industries, manufacturing, medical devices, professional services and a
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lot of channel partners, where the
median was that they were using only two
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or three of those nine programs.
And settle literally, just like with the
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exercise eighty percent or so of companies
are just not marketing hardly at all and
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there's a huge opportunity for them to
dramatically improve their results and their revenue.
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And when I looked at those companies
and looked at how fast the growth was
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the software companies that were scoring eight
or nine, we're growing five times faster
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than the companies that scored zero,
two three. So is the difference between
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say, seven percent growth a year
or thirty percent growth a year? Huge
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differences that the most sophisticated marketers and
the companies that were most committed to this
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we're able to achieve. So that's
the kind of opportunity that I think a
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lot of companies have. Yeah,
what I think it's it does make it
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aough sense and I could carry on
that conversation for a long, longer,
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long time. We was you'Lui,
because it's really passionatable to all the Tope
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is that we are approaching today.
Unfortunately, we getting to the end of
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end of a session today, end
of all podcast. So I would like
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00:25:00.430 --> 00:25:03.869
to thank you for your time.
We would like to thank you for all
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the the input, the example that
you've been sharing with us today. I'm
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sure I'll listener on audience will get
lots of value from your input. Now,
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00:25:14.740 --> 00:25:17.140
what is the best way to connect
with you? If any of our
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listener wants to know more about buds
a marketing, your book, Your Company,
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00:25:22.329 --> 00:25:25.410
what you do, what's the best
way to get into with you?
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Lui. So my bull's eye marketing
book is available on Amazon. I was
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00:25:30.250 --> 00:25:33.369
just noticing the last month the quarter
of the sales were in Australia, so
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it was nice to see it's getting
a tenntion in other parts of the world.
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And I am available. The company
is revenue and Associates. I can
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00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:51.990
be emailed at Louis Louis at Revenue
Associates DOT is. I'm on twitter at
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00:25:52.109 --> 00:25:55.910
Louis Gedema. I'm on Linkedin,
of course, so happy to hear from
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people through any of those ways and
you know, would love to talk with
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00:26:00.509 --> 00:26:03.819
people and what their experiences or what
the reactions to what we've been talking about
352
00:26:03.819 --> 00:26:08.539
are perfect well, thank you many
things for your time today. It was
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00:26:08.700 --> 00:26:11.380
great to have you under shore Lui, and we, I'm sure we would
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00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:15.220
contact your getting in the off shut
show to discuss about some of those all
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topics. Thank you very much.
I enjoyed it. operatics has redefined the
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00:26:19.529 --> 00:26:26.970
meaning of revenue generation for technology companies
worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building
357
00:26:26.009 --> 00:26:32.609
and managing inside sales teams inhouse has
existed for many years, companies are struggling
358
00:26:32.609 --> 00:26:37.920
with a lack of focus, agility
and scale required in today's fast and complex
359
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:44.640
world of enterprise technology sales. See
How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline
360
00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:49.990
at operatics dotnet. You've been listening
to be tob revenue acceleration. To ensure
361
00:26:51.029 --> 00:26:53.589
that you never miss an episode,
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362
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