Episode Transcript
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You were listening to be to be
revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping
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software executives stay on the cutting edge
of sales and marketing in their industry.
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Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome to be to be a revenue
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accederation. My Name is opinion.
With you and I'm yet today with Brendon
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Keviny from mine tree. How are
you today, Brendon? I'm doing well.
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Thanks for having me on your show. That's an absolute pishow. So
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today we will be talking about when
and how to scale marketing operations, but
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white too big. But before we
get into the details, can you please
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introduce yourself your role at mine tree, as well as what my intrigue does
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as an organization? Yeah, sure, thanks. I'll start with mine tree.
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Of the company, where an IT
services company. Run rate is about
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a billion dollars. We have twentyzero
people, which, compared to some companies,
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would seem very big, but relative
to our industry, were mid size
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but growing very fast. We grew
twenty percent last year. I will emphasize
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that it's a services company, so
we're yeah, Sultan. We do two
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kind of major parts of consulting,
both completely related Ike what we call the
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run and grow side of the business. So the run side of the business
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are all the back end systems that
are really run for efficiency, you know,
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so like accounting and maybe supply chain
or some other things that are kind
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of always on and they're they're really
about optimizing and being efficient. And then
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the other half, which is where
the hugest, biggest wave of investment you've
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seen over the last couple of years, is what we call digital which are
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like customer facing app you know,
this is where you see API tools,
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things in the cloud that are like
need to be super fast, change real
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time. Thinks facebook, Amazon and
all that stuff. Now, me,
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I run a field marketing team,
which is the team that works with the
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different business units we have for superb, very large business units are based on
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industries. So we have people who
run and their job is to honestly really
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be a mini cml for each of
the business units of my company. And
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then also, along with that,
our demands and engine are marketing technology stack.
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I really am sort of the person
who put that in and and built
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that out for for my company,
which is a really exciting, great thing
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to do. Actually. Okay,
to brand the new you mentioned something quite
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interesting you. You made the dissociation
between marketing services or marketing, you know,
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selvas marketing, should I say,
and product marketing. So we also
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these company as well. So I
think we can of fundust on the dissociation
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pretty well. But could you please
comment on what you believe the differences are
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between service marketing and product marketing piece? I really like that question and the
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reason I like that question is because
I think one thing that we talked about,
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and we, I mean marketing professionals, talking to each other often,
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is bb versus BBC. Yeah,
and that is a very clearly there's there's
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differentiations, right, the buyers are
different, all these things. However,
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in my case, the the real
difference I see is like product versus services.
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So, you know, parallel industry
to mine, or the ecosystem of
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the industry I work in, is
like software. So like the software companies,
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the markets and software companies, they're
the ones who are really, you
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know, sort of like driving the
conversation about account based marketing, for example,
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in these other things. And when
I look at the Services Company,
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so account base marketing a perfect example, we've never been anything but cow based
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marketing. I mean we didn't call
it account Bass Marketing, but that's the
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only kind of marketing we ever did. Now the reason is pretty simple.
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My company is billion dollar run rate. We have three or fifty customers.
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So, you know, doesn't take
supermass to figure out that each customers are
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really big customer or we try to
get a customer make them a really big
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customer. Now that's change to say. Is the nature of marketing, because
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we're not, you know, looking
to find, you know, look at
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a million people and who are the
thousand best that will love our service.
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We're actually looking at couple hundred customers
or accounts and trying to create awareness and
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opportunities in those counts and figure out
when to enter. Yeah, but another
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thing that you mentioned in your introduction
is is the world consultants and constructative?
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Do you believe you need to be
more consultative from a sales and marketing approach,
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which which I think are linked,
because you know, it's about the
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message and owe you you traits and
on Gage with your with your prospect always
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your clients. But coming back to
the question, do you believe you need
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to be more consultative when you are
doing selviace marketing they's just product marketing in
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your approach. Definitely. Yeah,
absolutely. We run training programs around consultatative
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selling. We spend a lot of
time on sales enablement. This has happened
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through my career, not just in
my current company but every all the companies
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Miss Industry that I've worked for,
which is there's three of them. And
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the real goal is to become a
partner with your customer and discover and articulate
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problems together and try to build solutions. So, you know, our business
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is a business of fighting RP's honestly. And and what is a what is
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really an RFP? It's an attempt. It's not actually a defined thing.
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It's an attempt to define a solution
to a problem that maybe clearly defined or
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not. And so when you think
about it those terms, every RFP is
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a little bit different. And this
this also will make you think about scale,
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because ultimately at the end of the
pipe is an URFP, not the
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end, but whatever like in getting
getting more business, you're actually you know,
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you get to the point of having
an RP or having a deal,
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and if every single one of those
deals are different, you know, did
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the way in which is scales very
different than you know, piece of software
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that does something. You can define
exactly what that software does and you're basically
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trying to, you know, push
out a story around that particular piece of
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we can be more creative. I
guess you know it, but I do
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agree on this point. I think
being construted heave and having as absolutely key
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to have a neck on Besa push
over, so be that's when you do
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servaces. I think that feeling of
a community, creating a commute around your
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bread, people using your servaces,
taking about how flexiboard you are, you've
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donelets of things, is also very
important. Now, if we dig a
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little bit more into the the actual
to pick of the conversation today, marketing
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operation is a key function within any
organization as it touches the data, operate
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the mate stack, consolidate the numbers
and optimizes the the strategy of a company,
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because it gives you, obviously all
do the the and then it takes
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the details to be able to make
decision in move forward. So as a
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company, as companies grow, they
need to addapt that team and obviously that
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text tack to scale and follow that
growth. So how can you identify when
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it's the right time for your marketing
operation team to start that scaling a process
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and I'll do you do it.
So I think that one of the things
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to think about. We do this
in our budgeting process and our approaches.
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I mean bankers and investors would do
this all the time. It's sort of
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an portfolio model and this is really, you know, I'm thinking about more
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than Martax back or marketing technology stact. Is that you know you have the
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things that you know you'll need to
do, like marketing automation. You know.
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So your big you know your market
or your eloqu or whatever, and
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we definitely do up my cost in
our budget. And then we also try
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to think about it in terms of
like the effort around the components to the
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stack that we're going to how we're
going to spend the money. So the
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or spending money on the time.
So the things we know we can scale,
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like emailing, advertising events or something
will will, you know, spend
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the bulk of the money and then
we'll have like some percentage of our budget
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and our time to do things that
are a little more experimental, and then
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we'll spend some time and money on
things that are really kind of a lockshout.
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We don't really know if they're going
to work here, honestly, and
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we do that every year and in
fact my Cmo, and he's presented about
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this public Lya he talks about hiring
and firing your stack and that's really the
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approach we take. So you know, every year if, because all the
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contracts don't line up perfectly, we
do look at every piece we have on
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our stack and decide like hey,
are we even going to know? We
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try this, but it worked and
worked. The other thing to think about
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is really, and this in the
buying the technology. A lot of technology
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tools are there to optimize process and
there's so many, I'm going to think
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if you if you go to the
Martech conference and you see that slide that's
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kind of famous. What has all
the logos of all that, like marketing,
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technology things. So many tools are
really the optimize some tiny thing,
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and the thing you have to ask
yourself as a customer or someone who's buying
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those tools is is this process running
at scale where we need to spend time
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to really tweak it? Like we're
not even running at scale. So if
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the engine not running, don't like
buy a piece to try to tweak and
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optimize it absolutely okay, and but
plunging you stop what would be a stall
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to like case you think you need
mucketing with the mission from day one.
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Seems to be the even from the
yelps fix. But what's on the what's
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all the key thoughts of a technology? Stecha, and I don't likes that
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Shal tapelefganization, but we do up
into walk these lots of stell tips.
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I'll do you even stop the joining
because we spook about the optimization moving.
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That what he's down because stocks and
point for everyone. That you would recommend?
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Yeah, so, for especially in
services, where it's very like you
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mentioned consultative. It's relationship driven,
sales driven kind of environment, I think
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crm and marketing automation are like the
key like places to start. And by
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marketing automation I mean the systems.
We all know, the part Ots,
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the big kind of sognisficated emailing systems. In a small you know, we're
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pretty big, right, so we
just like put it in, we just
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see it. We you know,
we had one in, we had a
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market automation system. We ripped it
out, we put a new one in.
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But if you know, if you're
small and you're growing. You could
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definitely start with like a a simpler
sort of mailing system on mail champ or
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constant contact or something that was like
doesn't cost you a lot of money.
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And then if you're getting to the
point where you're like wow, you know,
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we're setting a lot of emails,
we're doing a lot of analysis,
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and what happens? Then you start
thinking about the next step, like maybe
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we need more tools, you know, so don't over buy. The other
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thing to think about, which which
is, you know, with some self
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research, you can figure it out. But depending on what you buy,
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you know who, what is your
internal team structure and what is their ability
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to kind of run the tools and
what kind of talent you need in house,
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because you'll find that some tools you
you might end up spending more on
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consulting to run the tools and you're
spending on the tool yourself itself. That
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makes stuff make sense. You need
to make sure that you've good test if
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you'll get the engine, you will
need to have a pitch for to put
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in so that that takes that next
to six does right. Well, one
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of the biggest challenge that that we
see and par secularity when we engage with
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bucketing operations teams when we, you
know, I'll clients or prospect at the
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beginning of a program of all,
the course of a program I guess,
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is the challenge of absolutely everyone is
to keep the database up to date and
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nthy clean, you know, increasing
response rate, all that sort of great
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stuff. Do you have an if
you do, can you share any tricks
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to keep your database cleans and updated? So, yeah, I think you
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are right that keeping your data and
order is super important. I mean it's
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a paramount important actually, and it's
very easy to let it go. It's
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easy to you know it, we
know you're and your it's cheaper and cheaper
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to keep a bunch of data.
I mean it almost cost nothing. I
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mean in my industry when I started
twelve years ago, I mean we couldn't
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even have these databases. They were
prohibitively expensive. And now you can have
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a startup of for people and spend
a thousand bucks a month and have a
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huge start of martextact that you can
steal really quickly. But I think a
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governance structure is important. You need
stakeholders in the company who find it important
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and they have to spread across the
organ it can't be an enthusiastic data minded
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person who's, you know, deep
down in the organ only that person could
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be super important, obviously, but
you need people at different levels. And
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then in the consumption of the data
internally, you need you need to make
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sure it's consumable in the way that's
relevant. So the sales team, they
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want to know pipeline. I'll give
you a really simple example. We had
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a like a marketer and they're doing
a program and stuff and they sent a
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report and the report came internally like
a report of some email thing, and
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the sale team started asking about open
rates, of click rates, only six.
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And so what we talked about internally
is that, hey, look that
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sales team. They have a target
list of accounts, like a hundred accounts.
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They cared about engagement from those accounts. So when you report to them,
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you give them engagement. These are
the people from these accounts that open,
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click download of papers, attended events. That's super important to them.
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The rest of it is it's important
to us as marketers because I want to
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be a efficient but for them it's
not. It's not that part. We
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don't really don't want them to be
concerned with it. Honestly, and I
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think that parts really important. But
I think to answer your question about keeping
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the data clean, I think it
comes down to governance and the commitment to
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governance and really deciding like okay,
you know, every quarter, every year,
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whatever, we're going to do this, we're going to clean this,
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we're going to delete that, and
and essentially, you know, buying in.
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It's sticking to that model. Otherwise, otherwise something just kind of proliferates.
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Is it's almost like a no purseway. So can this is my this
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is my calendall for my comb things
over the next six months. So I
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wouldn't tell get such and such a
Gotsi code in such and such territory and
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I wouldn't I get such and such
also know was in that. That's equally
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was in the territory. was dismissing
GIES. Would you say it's few,
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you've got that sort of the sequence
on the the sequence, but the the
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frequency a twitch. You would be
cleansing that data. He almost based on
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the comp thing that you are about
to run. Or would you say no,
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it's okay, once a year or
twice, so you know, you
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just review absolutely everything in teens,
everything in the other tobase. So for
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us it's a little more of the
ladder. Now. The reason is,
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and this comes down to the service. So if I you know, the
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services versus product marketing that we talked
about earlier, there's a few components to
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that and one of the components,
and this if you would talk to,
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say, our media partner or one
of the vendors I've worked with, they
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would this, is like the broken
record brand and kind of thing is that.
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I'm like, I want you to
get in your head that our target
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list of static, it doesn't change, it's a hundred thousand people and that
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it's never changing. And it's not
true that it never changes, but it
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changes little enough that the mentality of
all the people who are executing against that
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target audience. I want them to
think that way. I don't want them
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to think like a media team would
think, hey, this clicks really well
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in this persona, let me go
cre hit that persona all over the place,
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because that doesn't matter for us.
What matters for us is that the
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people in those accounts that we're targeting
are seeing our ads and clicking on our
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stuff and attending our stuff now to
day. The question you had about the
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kind of a campaign. That's a
really good example because we had a campaign
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for the cruise line industry and what
we learned and the marketing member who runs
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like super good you sort of understands
all the stuff really kind of big picture
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and also understands the details, and
she saw that she was like talking to
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the media agency and that people were
clicking down in the cruise industry and downloading
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this report that we had and realizing, yes, they worked for that cruise
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line, but they were you can
imagine how many people work for cruise lines
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right who are just fast and the
ships and things, but what we really
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need is we need like their corporate
Ip corporate people, and so they really
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quickly saw that adjusted and we had
had that problem in the past, especially
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with media. So we kind of
knew. We you know, we have
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like learned our lesson, but that's
super important. So, like our target
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list is really key. So we
would rather spend more time and money,
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honestly, to get to the right
people in a company. Then you know
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then just the volume and efficiency of
yeah, and this because I mentioned their
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lines. I mean it is kind
of like stuffing we learned is like airline
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hotels. You know, cruise lines, all these hospitality things. There's a
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million. So if you tried to, for example, run a campaign for
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hotels and you want to identify iteam
managers or it directors or something, every
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hotel the middle of Iowa has like
an it person who runs like your Internet
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and stuff. But that's not our
target. We're talking about the corporate people.
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Of course, that's I think that
makes stuff, makes sense. And
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what do they ca about? The
way you explain and you show your wall
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story with this is that you really
care about the resource of the campaign.
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You could idea in the cliques and
the de open except for exit from but
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it's a really quitity to teams.
But I think the engagement first, most
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importantly, having the engagement with the
right people. So we should the exact
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semimental it's when it comes to running
companies. He's outset as a marketing,
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comping fall client. So thanks for
it. BRANA. Really appreciates your time
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00:16:23.710 --> 00:16:30.389
and insight on all my questions today. If any off listen, know would
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00:16:30.389 --> 00:16:33.460
like to get in touch with you. What is the best platform, the
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00:16:33.539 --> 00:16:37.340
best way to engage with you?
It is linkedin. My name is unique
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00:16:37.340 --> 00:16:40.299
and ask if you just search my
name I think you'll find me reading coviny,
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00:16:40.500 --> 00:16:44.019
but thank you. It's been really
good. I find this super interesting
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00:16:44.259 --> 00:16:48.169
and I do have a lot of
passion for data and Mar Tech and gailing
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00:16:48.250 --> 00:16:49.970
marketing. So thanks for having me
on your show. I can tell what
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thanks to you as well, and
it was great to have you under shore
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00:16:53.210 --> 00:17:00.610
today. Thank you. operatics has
redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technology
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00:17:00.690 --> 00:17:06.880
companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts
of building and managing inside sales teams inhouse
264
00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:11.160
has existed for many years, companies
are struggling with a lack of focus,
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00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:17.910
agility and scale required in today's fast
and complex world of enterprise technology sales.
266
00:17:18.549 --> 00:17:25.230
See How operatics can help your company
accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been
267
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listening to be tob revenue acceleration.
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