35: How & When to Scale Marketing Operations w/ Brendan Kavaney

April 03, 2019 00:17:41
35: How & When to Scale Marketing Operations w/ Brendan Kavaney
B2B Revenue Acceleration
35: How & When to Scale Marketing Operations w/ Brendan Kavaney

Apr 03 2019 | 00:17:41

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Show Notes

Time to scale your marketing operations? That’s a good place to be — it likely means your business or industry is growing. Still, scaling marketing operations can be challenging.

On this episode of B2B Revenue Acceleration, we asked Brendan Kavaney to join us for this discussion. We plugged him with questions about martech, data, internal expertise, and service marketing, and he did not disappoint.

Brendan is the Global Head of Field Marketing and Demand Generation at Mindtree, an IT services company with 20k employees and $1B run rate.

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Episode Transcript

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:07.080 You were listening to be to be revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping 2 00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:10.990 software executives stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. 3 00:00:11.029 --> 00:00:16.350 Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome to be to be a revenue 4 00:00:16.390 --> 00:00:20.030 accederation. My Name is opinion. With you and I'm yet today with Brendon 5 00:00:20.030 --> 00:00:23.660 Keviny from mine tree. How are you today, Brendon? I'm doing well. 6 00:00:23.780 --> 00:00:27.059 Thanks for having me on your show. That's an absolute pishow. So 7 00:00:27.179 --> 00:00:32.700 today we will be talking about when and how to scale marketing operations, but 8 00:00:33.100 --> 00:00:36.450 white too big. But before we get into the details, can you please 9 00:00:36.490 --> 00:00:41.289 introduce yourself your role at mine tree, as well as what my intrigue does 10 00:00:41.490 --> 00:00:45.450 as an organization? Yeah, sure, thanks. I'll start with mine tree. 11 00:00:45.490 --> 00:00:48.929 Of the company, where an IT services company. Run rate is about 12 00:00:48.929 --> 00:00:52.520 a billion dollars. We have twentyzero people, which, compared to some companies, 13 00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:56.039 would seem very big, but relative to our industry, were mid size 14 00:00:56.159 --> 00:01:00.039 but growing very fast. We grew twenty percent last year. I will emphasize 15 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:03.520 that it's a services company, so we're yeah, Sultan. We do two 16 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:08.590 kind of major parts of consulting, both completely related Ike what we call the 17 00:01:08.590 --> 00:01:11.629 run and grow side of the business. So the run side of the business 18 00:01:11.709 --> 00:01:15.189 are all the back end systems that are really run for efficiency, you know, 19 00:01:15.269 --> 00:01:19.500 so like accounting and maybe supply chain or some other things that are kind 20 00:01:19.500 --> 00:01:23.540 of always on and they're they're really about optimizing and being efficient. And then 21 00:01:23.579 --> 00:01:26.700 the other half, which is where the hugest, biggest wave of investment you've 22 00:01:26.739 --> 00:01:30.180 seen over the last couple of years, is what we call digital which are 23 00:01:30.299 --> 00:01:34.090 like customer facing app you know, this is where you see API tools, 24 00:01:34.250 --> 00:01:38.969 things in the cloud that are like need to be super fast, change real 25 00:01:38.129 --> 00:01:42.489 time. Thinks facebook, Amazon and all that stuff. Now, me, 26 00:01:42.930 --> 00:01:47.439 I run a field marketing team, which is the team that works with the 27 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:51.560 different business units we have for superb, very large business units are based on 28 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:55.400 industries. So we have people who run and their job is to honestly really 29 00:01:55.400 --> 00:01:57.719 be a mini cml for each of the business units of my company. And 30 00:01:57.879 --> 00:02:04.390 then also, along with that, our demands and engine are marketing technology stack. 31 00:02:04.670 --> 00:02:07.430 I really am sort of the person who put that in and and built 32 00:02:07.469 --> 00:02:12.270 that out for for my company, which is a really exciting, great thing 33 00:02:12.349 --> 00:02:15.550 to do. Actually. Okay, to brand the new you mentioned something quite 34 00:02:15.550 --> 00:02:21.419 interesting you. You made the dissociation between marketing services or marketing, you know, 35 00:02:21.860 --> 00:02:24.219 selvas marketing, should I say, and product marketing. So we also 36 00:02:24.379 --> 00:02:28.659 these company as well. So I think we can of fundust on the dissociation 37 00:02:28.860 --> 00:02:31.569 pretty well. But could you please comment on what you believe the differences are 38 00:02:31.689 --> 00:02:38.370 between service marketing and product marketing piece? I really like that question and the 39 00:02:38.449 --> 00:02:43.409 reason I like that question is because I think one thing that we talked about, 40 00:02:43.490 --> 00:02:46.879 and we, I mean marketing professionals, talking to each other often, 41 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:52.120 is bb versus BBC. Yeah, and that is a very clearly there's there's 42 00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:53.960 differentiations, right, the buyers are different, all these things. However, 43 00:02:54.280 --> 00:02:59.550 in my case, the the real difference I see is like product versus services. 44 00:02:59.750 --> 00:03:01.909 So, you know, parallel industry to mine, or the ecosystem of 45 00:03:01.949 --> 00:03:06.590 the industry I work in, is like software. So like the software companies, 46 00:03:06.629 --> 00:03:08.189 the markets and software companies, they're the ones who are really, you 47 00:03:08.270 --> 00:03:13.740 know, sort of like driving the conversation about account based marketing, for example, 48 00:03:13.819 --> 00:03:15.419 in these other things. And when I look at the Services Company, 49 00:03:15.620 --> 00:03:20.780 so account base marketing a perfect example, we've never been anything but cow based 50 00:03:20.780 --> 00:03:23.819 marketing. I mean we didn't call it account Bass Marketing, but that's the 51 00:03:23.900 --> 00:03:25.539 only kind of marketing we ever did. Now the reason is pretty simple. 52 00:03:25.900 --> 00:03:30.810 My company is billion dollar run rate. We have three or fifty customers. 53 00:03:30.050 --> 00:03:34.770 So, you know, doesn't take supermass to figure out that each customers are 54 00:03:34.770 --> 00:03:38.090 really big customer or we try to get a customer make them a really big 55 00:03:38.129 --> 00:03:40.129 customer. Now that's change to say. Is the nature of marketing, because 56 00:03:40.210 --> 00:03:44.439 we're not, you know, looking to find, you know, look at 57 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:47.479 a million people and who are the thousand best that will love our service. 58 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:54.000 We're actually looking at couple hundred customers or accounts and trying to create awareness and 59 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:59.069 opportunities in those counts and figure out when to enter. Yeah, but another 60 00:03:59.150 --> 00:04:02.509 thing that you mentioned in your introduction is is the world consultants and constructative? 61 00:04:02.870 --> 00:04:08.550 Do you believe you need to be more consultative from a sales and marketing approach, 62 00:04:08.590 --> 00:04:10.699 which which I think are linked, because you know, it's about the 63 00:04:10.740 --> 00:04:15.419 message and owe you you traits and on Gage with your with your prospect always 64 00:04:15.460 --> 00:04:17.259 your clients. But coming back to the question, do you believe you need 65 00:04:17.300 --> 00:04:23.540 to be more consultative when you are doing selviace marketing they's just product marketing in 66 00:04:23.660 --> 00:04:29.689 your approach. Definitely. Yeah, absolutely. We run training programs around consultatative 67 00:04:29.769 --> 00:04:32.209 selling. We spend a lot of time on sales enablement. This has happened 68 00:04:32.290 --> 00:04:35.730 through my career, not just in my current company but every all the companies 69 00:04:35.769 --> 00:04:39.480 Miss Industry that I've worked for, which is there's three of them. And 70 00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:45.839 the real goal is to become a partner with your customer and discover and articulate 71 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:48.639 problems together and try to build solutions. So, you know, our business 72 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:53.829 is a business of fighting RP's honestly. And and what is a what is 73 00:04:53.990 --> 00:04:58.310 really an RFP? It's an attempt. It's not actually a defined thing. 74 00:04:58.389 --> 00:05:02.189 It's an attempt to define a solution to a problem that maybe clearly defined or 75 00:05:02.230 --> 00:05:06.029 not. And so when you think about it those terms, every RFP is 76 00:05:06.029 --> 00:05:11.339 a little bit different. And this this also will make you think about scale, 77 00:05:11.540 --> 00:05:14.699 because ultimately at the end of the pipe is an URFP, not the 78 00:05:14.779 --> 00:05:17.860 end, but whatever like in getting getting more business, you're actually you know, 79 00:05:17.899 --> 00:05:20.529 you get to the point of having an RP or having a deal, 80 00:05:20.970 --> 00:05:24.889 and if every single one of those deals are different, you know, did 81 00:05:25.050 --> 00:05:28.209 the way in which is scales very different than you know, piece of software 82 00:05:28.209 --> 00:05:30.889 that does something. You can define exactly what that software does and you're basically 83 00:05:31.009 --> 00:05:34.839 trying to, you know, push out a story around that particular piece of 84 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:39.040 we can be more creative. I guess you know it, but I do 85 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:43.519 agree on this point. I think being construted heave and having as absolutely key 86 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:46.040 to have a neck on Besa push over, so be that's when you do 87 00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:49.829 servaces. I think that feeling of a community, creating a commute around your 88 00:05:49.870 --> 00:05:55.910 bread, people using your servaces, taking about how flexiboard you are, you've 89 00:05:55.949 --> 00:05:59.509 donelets of things, is also very important. Now, if we dig a 90 00:05:59.589 --> 00:06:02.550 little bit more into the the actual to pick of the conversation today, marketing 91 00:06:02.629 --> 00:06:09.220 operation is a key function within any organization as it touches the data, operate 92 00:06:09.300 --> 00:06:15.139 the mate stack, consolidate the numbers and optimizes the the strategy of a company, 93 00:06:15.180 --> 00:06:16.860 because it gives you, obviously all do the the and then it takes 94 00:06:16.899 --> 00:06:20.649 the details to be able to make decision in move forward. So as a 95 00:06:20.689 --> 00:06:25.449 company, as companies grow, they need to addapt that team and obviously that 96 00:06:25.569 --> 00:06:30.410 text tack to scale and follow that growth. So how can you identify when 97 00:06:30.449 --> 00:06:36.480 it's the right time for your marketing operation team to start that scaling a process 98 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:41.279 and I'll do you do it. So I think that one of the things 99 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:45.680 to think about. We do this in our budgeting process and our approaches. 100 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:48.069 I mean bankers and investors would do this all the time. It's sort of 101 00:06:48.110 --> 00:06:53.790 an portfolio model and this is really, you know, I'm thinking about more 102 00:06:53.829 --> 00:06:57.589 than Martax back or marketing technology stact. Is that you know you have the 103 00:06:57.670 --> 00:07:00.589 things that you know you'll need to do, like marketing automation. You know. 104 00:07:00.709 --> 00:07:02.980 So your big you know your market or your eloqu or whatever, and 105 00:07:03.139 --> 00:07:05.980 we definitely do up my cost in our budget. And then we also try 106 00:07:06.019 --> 00:07:10.540 to think about it in terms of like the effort around the components to the 107 00:07:10.660 --> 00:07:14.019 stack that we're going to how we're going to spend the money. So the 108 00:07:14.379 --> 00:07:16.209 or spending money on the time. So the things we know we can scale, 109 00:07:16.290 --> 00:07:21.610 like emailing, advertising events or something will will, you know, spend 110 00:07:21.649 --> 00:07:25.490 the bulk of the money and then we'll have like some percentage of our budget 111 00:07:25.569 --> 00:07:28.569 and our time to do things that are a little more experimental, and then 112 00:07:28.730 --> 00:07:31.120 we'll spend some time and money on things that are really kind of a lockshout. 113 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:33.720 We don't really know if they're going to work here, honestly, and 114 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:39.160 we do that every year and in fact my Cmo, and he's presented about 115 00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:43.600 this public Lya he talks about hiring and firing your stack and that's really the 116 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:46.790 approach we take. So you know, every year if, because all the 117 00:07:46.829 --> 00:07:50.110 contracts don't line up perfectly, we do look at every piece we have on 118 00:07:50.149 --> 00:07:53.829 our stack and decide like hey, are we even going to know? We 119 00:07:53.910 --> 00:07:57.149 try this, but it worked and worked. The other thing to think about 120 00:07:57.629 --> 00:08:01.899 is really, and this in the buying the technology. A lot of technology 121 00:08:01.980 --> 00:08:05.579 tools are there to optimize process and there's so many, I'm going to think 122 00:08:05.620 --> 00:08:09.459 if you if you go to the Martech conference and you see that slide that's 123 00:08:09.459 --> 00:08:13.529 kind of famous. What has all the logos of all that, like marketing, 124 00:08:13.529 --> 00:08:16.329 technology things. So many tools are really the optimize some tiny thing, 125 00:08:16.569 --> 00:08:20.410 and the thing you have to ask yourself as a customer or someone who's buying 126 00:08:20.449 --> 00:08:26.129 those tools is is this process running at scale where we need to spend time 127 00:08:26.329 --> 00:08:28.399 to really tweak it? Like we're not even running at scale. So if 128 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:31.960 the engine not running, don't like buy a piece to try to tweak and 129 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:37.320 optimize it absolutely okay, and but plunging you stop what would be a stall 130 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:41.360 to like case you think you need mucketing with the mission from day one. 131 00:08:41.429 --> 00:08:45.070 Seems to be the even from the yelps fix. But what's on the what's 132 00:08:45.070 --> 00:08:48.350 all the key thoughts of a technology? Stecha, and I don't likes that 133 00:08:48.470 --> 00:08:52.509 Shal tapelefganization, but we do up into walk these lots of stell tips. 134 00:08:52.629 --> 00:08:54.940 I'll do you even stop the joining because we spook about the optimization moving. 135 00:08:56.019 --> 00:09:00.059 That what he's down because stocks and point for everyone. That you would recommend? 136 00:09:00.620 --> 00:09:03.059 Yeah, so, for especially in services, where it's very like you 137 00:09:03.139 --> 00:09:09.009 mentioned consultative. It's relationship driven, sales driven kind of environment, I think 138 00:09:09.610 --> 00:09:15.809 crm and marketing automation are like the key like places to start. And by 139 00:09:15.889 --> 00:09:18.169 marketing automation I mean the systems. We all know, the part Ots, 140 00:09:18.370 --> 00:09:22.049 the big kind of sognisficated emailing systems. In a small you know, we're 141 00:09:22.049 --> 00:09:24.600 pretty big, right, so we just like put it in, we just 142 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:26.960 see it. We you know, we had one in, we had a 143 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:30.200 market automation system. We ripped it out, we put a new one in. 144 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:33.200 But if you know, if you're small and you're growing. You could 145 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:37.000 definitely start with like a a simpler sort of mailing system on mail champ or 146 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:41.269 constant contact or something that was like doesn't cost you a lot of money. 147 00:09:41.350 --> 00:09:43.429 And then if you're getting to the point where you're like wow, you know, 148 00:09:43.509 --> 00:09:46.950 we're setting a lot of emails, we're doing a lot of analysis, 149 00:09:46.029 --> 00:09:48.629 and what happens? Then you start thinking about the next step, like maybe 150 00:09:48.710 --> 00:09:52.059 we need more tools, you know, so don't over buy. The other 151 00:09:52.139 --> 00:09:56.259 thing to think about, which which is, you know, with some self 152 00:09:56.299 --> 00:09:58.980 research, you can figure it out. But depending on what you buy, 153 00:10:00.539 --> 00:10:05.899 you know who, what is your internal team structure and what is their ability 154 00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:09.129 to kind of run the tools and what kind of talent you need in house, 155 00:10:09.409 --> 00:10:13.049 because you'll find that some tools you you might end up spending more on 156 00:10:13.210 --> 00:10:16.570 consulting to run the tools and you're spending on the tool yourself itself. That 157 00:10:16.690 --> 00:10:18.850 makes stuff make sense. You need to make sure that you've good test if 158 00:10:18.889 --> 00:10:20.879 you'll get the engine, you will need to have a pitch for to put 159 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:26.960 in so that that takes that next to six does right. Well, one 160 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:30.799 of the biggest challenge that that we see and par secularity when we engage with 161 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:35.750 bucketing operations teams when we, you know, I'll clients or prospect at the 162 00:10:35.830 --> 00:10:37.149 beginning of a program of all, the course of a program I guess, 163 00:10:37.269 --> 00:10:41.950 is the challenge of absolutely everyone is to keep the database up to date and 164 00:10:43.149 --> 00:10:46.909 nthy clean, you know, increasing response rate, all that sort of great 165 00:10:46.950 --> 00:10:50.980 stuff. Do you have an if you do, can you share any tricks 166 00:10:50.379 --> 00:10:56.419 to keep your database cleans and updated? So, yeah, I think you 167 00:10:56.539 --> 00:11:01.259 are right that keeping your data and order is super important. I mean it's 168 00:11:01.460 --> 00:11:07.129 a paramount important actually, and it's very easy to let it go. It's 169 00:11:07.210 --> 00:11:11.610 easy to you know it, we know you're and your it's cheaper and cheaper 170 00:11:11.649 --> 00:11:13.690 to keep a bunch of data. I mean it almost cost nothing. I 171 00:11:13.730 --> 00:11:18.330 mean in my industry when I started twelve years ago, I mean we couldn't 172 00:11:18.330 --> 00:11:22.000 even have these databases. They were prohibitively expensive. And now you can have 173 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:24.279 a startup of for people and spend a thousand bucks a month and have a 174 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:28.440 huge start of martextact that you can steal really quickly. But I think a 175 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:33.789 governance structure is important. You need stakeholders in the company who find it important 176 00:11:33.830 --> 00:11:39.590 and they have to spread across the organ it can't be an enthusiastic data minded 177 00:11:39.669 --> 00:11:43.149 person who's, you know, deep down in the organ only that person could 178 00:11:43.149 --> 00:11:46.669 be super important, obviously, but you need people at different levels. And 179 00:11:46.710 --> 00:11:52.940 then in the consumption of the data internally, you need you need to make 180 00:11:52.059 --> 00:11:56.820 sure it's consumable in the way that's relevant. So the sales team, they 181 00:11:56.899 --> 00:12:00.179 want to know pipeline. I'll give you a really simple example. We had 182 00:12:00.220 --> 00:12:03.610 a like a marketer and they're doing a program and stuff and they sent a 183 00:12:03.769 --> 00:12:07.129 report and the report came internally like a report of some email thing, and 184 00:12:07.210 --> 00:12:09.889 the sale team started asking about open rates, of click rates, only six. 185 00:12:11.129 --> 00:12:13.409 And so what we talked about internally is that, hey, look that 186 00:12:13.649 --> 00:12:16.840 sales team. They have a target list of accounts, like a hundred accounts. 187 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:22.000 They cared about engagement from those accounts. So when you report to them, 188 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:24.840 you give them engagement. These are the people from these accounts that open, 189 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:28.639 click download of papers, attended events. That's super important to them. 190 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:33.029 The rest of it is it's important to us as marketers because I want to 191 00:12:33.070 --> 00:12:35.389 be a efficient but for them it's not. It's not that part. We 192 00:12:35.470 --> 00:12:39.389 don't really don't want them to be concerned with it. Honestly, and I 193 00:12:39.470 --> 00:12:41.509 think that parts really important. But I think to answer your question about keeping 194 00:12:41.509 --> 00:12:46.299 the data clean, I think it comes down to governance and the commitment to 195 00:12:46.379 --> 00:12:50.379 governance and really deciding like okay, you know, every quarter, every year, 196 00:12:50.500 --> 00:12:52.580 whatever, we're going to do this, we're going to clean this, 197 00:12:52.820 --> 00:12:54.740 we're going to delete that, and and essentially, you know, buying in. 198 00:12:54.860 --> 00:12:58.929 It's sticking to that model. Otherwise, otherwise something just kind of proliferates. 199 00:13:00.649 --> 00:13:03.049 Is it's almost like a no purseway. So can this is my this 200 00:13:03.250 --> 00:13:07.929 is my calendall for my comb things over the next six months. So I 201 00:13:07.970 --> 00:13:11.970 wouldn't tell get such and such a Gotsi code in such and such territory and 202 00:13:11.970 --> 00:13:15.399 I wouldn't I get such and such also know was in that. That's equally 203 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:18.240 was in the territory. was dismissing GIES. Would you say it's few, 204 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:22.600 you've got that sort of the sequence on the the sequence, but the the 205 00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:26.710 frequency a twitch. You would be cleansing that data. He almost based on 206 00:13:26.830 --> 00:13:30.549 the comp thing that you are about to run. Or would you say no, 207 00:13:30.669 --> 00:13:33.149 it's okay, once a year or twice, so you know, you 208 00:13:33.269 --> 00:13:37.789 just review absolutely everything in teens, everything in the other tobase. So for 209 00:13:37.029 --> 00:13:41.820 us it's a little more of the ladder. Now. The reason is, 210 00:13:43.059 --> 00:13:45.740 and this comes down to the service. So if I you know, the 211 00:13:45.820 --> 00:13:48.700 services versus product marketing that we talked about earlier, there's a few components to 212 00:13:48.779 --> 00:13:52.659 that and one of the components, and this if you would talk to, 213 00:13:52.700 --> 00:13:54.659 say, our media partner or one of the vendors I've worked with, they 214 00:13:54.700 --> 00:13:58.970 would this, is like the broken record brand and kind of thing is that. 215 00:13:58.090 --> 00:14:01.490 I'm like, I want you to get in your head that our target 216 00:14:01.529 --> 00:14:05.649 list of static, it doesn't change, it's a hundred thousand people and that 217 00:14:05.769 --> 00:14:09.250 it's never changing. And it's not true that it never changes, but it 218 00:14:09.370 --> 00:14:13.120 changes little enough that the mentality of all the people who are executing against that 219 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:16.159 target audience. I want them to think that way. I don't want them 220 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:20.120 to think like a media team would think, hey, this clicks really well 221 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:24.309 in this persona, let me go cre hit that persona all over the place, 222 00:14:24.429 --> 00:14:28.230 because that doesn't matter for us. What matters for us is that the 223 00:14:28.350 --> 00:14:31.950 people in those accounts that we're targeting are seeing our ads and clicking on our 224 00:14:31.990 --> 00:14:35.549 stuff and attending our stuff now to day. The question you had about the 225 00:14:35.590 --> 00:14:39.419 kind of a campaign. That's a really good example because we had a campaign 226 00:14:39.500 --> 00:14:43.379 for the cruise line industry and what we learned and the marketing member who runs 227 00:14:43.539 --> 00:14:46.940 like super good you sort of understands all the stuff really kind of big picture 228 00:14:46.940 --> 00:14:50.379 and also understands the details, and she saw that she was like talking to 229 00:14:50.460 --> 00:14:54.090 the media agency and that people were clicking down in the cruise industry and downloading 230 00:14:54.210 --> 00:14:58.450 this report that we had and realizing, yes, they worked for that cruise 231 00:14:58.490 --> 00:15:01.690 line, but they were you can imagine how many people work for cruise lines 232 00:15:01.730 --> 00:15:05.970 right who are just fast and the ships and things, but what we really 233 00:15:05.009 --> 00:15:09.080 need is we need like their corporate Ip corporate people, and so they really 234 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:13.679 quickly saw that adjusted and we had had that problem in the past, especially 235 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:16.879 with media. So we kind of knew. We you know, we have 236 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:20.600 like learned our lesson, but that's super important. So, like our target 237 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:24.870 list is really key. So we would rather spend more time and money, 238 00:15:24.990 --> 00:15:28.590 honestly, to get to the right people in a company. Then you know 239 00:15:28.669 --> 00:15:31.789 then just the volume and efficiency of yeah, and this because I mentioned their 240 00:15:31.870 --> 00:15:35.259 lines. I mean it is kind of like stuffing we learned is like airline 241 00:15:35.379 --> 00:15:39.860 hotels. You know, cruise lines, all these hospitality things. There's a 242 00:15:39.940 --> 00:15:41.539 million. So if you tried to, for example, run a campaign for 243 00:15:41.659 --> 00:15:48.179 hotels and you want to identify iteam managers or it directors or something, every 244 00:15:48.299 --> 00:15:52.809 hotel the middle of Iowa has like an it person who runs like your Internet 245 00:15:52.850 --> 00:15:54.809 and stuff. But that's not our target. We're talking about the corporate people. 246 00:15:56.210 --> 00:15:58.610 Of course, that's I think that makes stuff, makes sense. And 247 00:15:58.730 --> 00:16:00.889 what do they ca about? The way you explain and you show your wall 248 00:16:00.970 --> 00:16:04.360 story with this is that you really care about the resource of the campaign. 249 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:08.440 You could idea in the cliques and the de open except for exit from but 250 00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:12.120 it's a really quitity to teams. But I think the engagement first, most 251 00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:17.639 importantly, having the engagement with the right people. So we should the exact 252 00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:21.149 semimental it's when it comes to running companies. He's outset as a marketing, 253 00:16:21.230 --> 00:16:23.629 comping fall client. So thanks for it. BRANA. Really appreciates your time 254 00:16:23.710 --> 00:16:30.389 and insight on all my questions today. If any off listen, know would 255 00:16:30.389 --> 00:16:33.460 like to get in touch with you. What is the best platform, the 256 00:16:33.539 --> 00:16:37.340 best way to engage with you? It is linkedin. My name is unique 257 00:16:37.340 --> 00:16:40.299 and ask if you just search my name I think you'll find me reading coviny, 258 00:16:40.500 --> 00:16:44.019 but thank you. It's been really good. I find this super interesting 259 00:16:44.259 --> 00:16:48.169 and I do have a lot of passion for data and Mar Tech and gailing 260 00:16:48.250 --> 00:16:49.970 marketing. So thanks for having me on your show. I can tell what 261 00:16:51.610 --> 00:16:53.210 thanks to you as well, and it was great to have you under shore 262 00:16:53.210 --> 00:17:00.610 today. Thank you. operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technology 263 00:17:00.690 --> 00:17:06.880 companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhouse 264 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:11.160 has existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus, 265 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:17.910 agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales. 266 00:17:18.549 --> 00:17:25.230 See How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been 267 00:17:25.269 --> 00:17:29.829 listening to be tob revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, 268 00:17:30.099 --> 00:17:33.779 subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much 269 00:17:33.779 --> 00:17:34.420 for listening. Until next time,

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