Episode Transcript
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You were listening to be tob revenue
acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping software
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executives stay on the cutting edge of
sales and marketing in their industry. Let's
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get into the show. Hi,
welcome to be. To be a revenue
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acceleration may then, boving in with
you, and I'm yet today we Packett
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Ceeo at groot print x. How
are you doing the I'm greatly quite plaguing
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you and I think the to big
of to day is it's actually quite distructive
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board the sets people that are listening
to us, because it's around turning marketing
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to a Roman engine. But before
we stopt the conversation, you would you
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man introducing yourself qualities, as well
as thinking as a little bit more about
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what you do and groups? Yeah, of course, absolutely so. I'm
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CEO bloopernt X, as you as
you mentioned, boop an x is really
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a technology agency, but it's quite
a kind of simple. We help CMOS
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and marketing leadership really maximize their technology
investments. As you know and as most
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people are probably know, as an
explosion in marketing technology. So you know
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how to best use that technology to
drive revenue. Yeah, which is always
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the purpose is our aim and we've
been doing that for five years now.
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We kind of worked out what works
and what doesn't, I think, and
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we're kind of you know, we
work with mainly mid side enterprise up size
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companies, global shot. So the
in marketing. There is so many things
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that marketing team can do and I
guess depending on the sale of the organization,
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depending on the tablefore organization, depending
on how famous the brand is,
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the marketing activity can change and you
can go from rainworpidation, you can go
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pr you can build me generation of
dens. Indications of the Great Surf canders
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marketing. But we see a strong
shift towards marketing in the technology industry.
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Are being larger impact within seven Rouben, you are all real from from the
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box to actually drive more revenue from
marketing. What does it take for marketing
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teams to make this shift? And
I remind set is more focused on generating
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thesa, generating orbing yeah now'.
It's a true summary and kind of good
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question. I think the last bit, you know, the key to the
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whare or the key to this.
Is that not one of the last ways?
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You mentioned the earlier ways, which
was mindset right so the whole function.
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If we kind of go back a
little bit, you know, marketing
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is a function as in a kind
of mid sized company and Enterprise Global Company
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can be very, very different.
Right, so, and I think we
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have to recognize that, we have
to remember that. But it let's take
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a typical company. have been settled
by channel, where they been settle,
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as you said, by brand,
by where by marketing, digital then come
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along and there was another strand of
marketing, but a different department. So
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effectively a lot of these kind of
things have been set up in a kind
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of organizational structure which is pretty defunct. So quite right. Right. So
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what's kind of happening now, as
being happening for a while, but it's
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getting in a lot of accelerating fast, is, you know, there's a
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lot of investments being made in marketing. Is a lot of shiny new toys
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that CMOS can buy, your digital
teams can buy and with the pretext of,
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you know, it can of really
shift in the needle and finding out
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that it doesn't really do that and
sort as a huge amount of money being
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put into customer experience and and the
Web and personalization and then account base marketing
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and all of these kind of disciplines
which are all hope to ultimately drive revenue.
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But I think the key thing is
is in our experience, and in
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my experiences, that kind of what's
happened. There's a lot of these investments
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have failed and a lot of these
these approaches have failed. And so what
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kind of CEOS? Who? Ultimore, CFOs, ultimate, Salas, Sun
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is kind of stuff off now,
you know, they want to see you
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was the return of investment. You
know, so if we put a dollar
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in, what do we get back
and when do we get in? And
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you know, we want to see
a bit more security around that happening rather
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than, you know, we're going
to buy a new piece of technology which
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will help us personalize our customer journey. Well, that's great, but how
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we're going to get a retain on
that? And I think that takes a
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new mindset. You know, of
for a market, of Department in general
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and a kind of typical company.
You know, they've predominantly focused, and
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I've been in marketing in one way
in another for twenty years and focused on
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doing stuff. You know, output. You know, number of events,
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number of campaigns, number of visitors, the website and that's again they're,
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you know, the key performance indicators, but really are they going to shift
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the needle and drive towards revenue?
So what is kind of required? There's
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a new mindset of, you know, fail fast, you know test and
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target really quickly and have a real
model that drives toward revenue and make sure
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that ultimately the most important thing is
that the marketing department is aligned to the
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other functions within the business, because
this is particularly sales. This is super
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important in every set that but you
know, particularly in the text sector.
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Sure, I guess you see a
shift, depending on the Shaze of the
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other in US Asia, the Indome
of the importance of marketing being linked to
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UMN. You. Yeah, no, definitely. I think in the midsize
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company it's definitely more important and it's
more of a focus because the management team
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may be smaller, the CEOS closer
to the business, the day to day
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business. In Enterprise Company, let's
say a big you know, a big
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bank in the financial services industry,
then you know that that that marketing department
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could be huge right. Could Be, you know, several hundred people in
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it and lots of different functions.
So I actually is also about doing stuff
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that needs to be done on at
a regular, daily, weekly, monthly
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basis. Right. So I think
the gap in a small inner, the
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difference in a midsize company and Enterprise
Company. You know, the gap is
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reducing faster and midsize because the CEO
is closer to the front line. Yeah,
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that makes an I think we see
that opening a loud skin. It's
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one organization and but still even the
one that they've received investments recently or even
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a lot of investment. People then
to be a little the CFO is glows
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up to the Clo in the winding
this investing and they are often as king
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us, or what they asking us, to build a business model or business
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cases before we even start walking,
because they want to make sure everything election
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we do and every single as you
mentioned, everything going doll are found invested
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into into the marketing machine, we
create a return. When it comes to
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or renew generation techniques. Have you
seen any roven generation technique that, from
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your perspective, Walk Better Than Although
or marketing people? No. I think
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for me the crucial element is consistency
and an alignment. Right. So,
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you know, I think all of
our customers will use different forms of revenue
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generation, demand generation, you know
in their particular market segment, consens indication,
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you know, ABM. You all
strategies and tactics at have vary different
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degrees of success. But I kind
of think that when I see the best
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performance is when there's a consistent approach
at joined up approach and aligned approach with
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sales, where there's a you know, a combined sales funnel, there's agreed
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ways of working, all of these
things are in place that you know,
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to really get visibility on the performance. The tactics have a degree of variable
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but again, you know, for
me the fund the begetting the fundamunts right.
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Being consistent in the approach and being
joined up always delivers a better result.
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And when you say John, does
it drained up with management as a
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marketing Golthorn, your sent team or
in Yours Organization within your company, or
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all of that? Or the most
important piece of sex I and where I
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see the biggest disconnect is, and
this is the most difficult thing to resolve,
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is where you know if you have
a sales and marketing team with agreed
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ways of working and agreed integrated sales
on all you know, juggled up tactics
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in terms of how the approach it
agreed SLA's on. You know how things
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will be followed up and on the
what time frame, you know, and
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that is then implemented into the technology
from a you know, from sales force
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or from markets and automation, and
you know topics from what how content should
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be written, what type of content, what kind of nature campaigns, all
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these kind of things should be a
decision that was taken between the marketing and
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sales team. So you have a
combined approach. For me that you know
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in the five or six years that
I've been doing an advising some very big
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companies, aowed to do this.
That always delivers a better result. Shall
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so that's actually a very interesting to
be an I was just about to take
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you down, so I'm glad you
kind of building me a bridge to my
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next question, which is, you
know, we often see an issue in
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getting the value of marketing or associating
marketing to rowing. You associating marketing activity
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stories growing, and that's often due
to the fact that the SETAF team may
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not attribute the back, may not
declare fightline, may not input or that
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data is absolutely important for the market
the stems. So the coach. I
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then for is what is the attribution
model you've seen being the most successful?
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Well, I think you've hit the
nail on the head right. So,
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you know, we can get relatively
accurate attribution a top of the funnel,
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because that's in marketings, control,
marketings gift. But then when we get
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through the funnel, as you've said, and this is kind of plays out
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in most organizations, is, you
know, we don't have, you know,
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sales people putting pipeline into sales for
sort of the CRN. We don't
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have, you know, the correct
of a green ways of working, which
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this is the problem, right.
So this is this is if, and
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I say I was with a company
last week, you know, in another
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parts of the world, quite a
big company in the technology setor and I
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said to the CMO there, look, you know, unless you solve that
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problem, whatever we do over here, whatever level of that that we do
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on you know, the top of
the funnel is going to reduce the effect
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of performance because you're constantly still going
to be spending sixty two, seventy percent
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of your time, happen, to
justify your seat at the table, because
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we can't get attribution further down the
funnel, we can't ultimately understand what the
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contribution of marketing is, and this
is, for me, the big issue
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that you know, the can of
industry need to get the head around.
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There's there's lots of shiny new toys
around that out there. There's not a
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lots of tactics and strategies that it's
a bit like the fitness industry, right,
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or the health and fitness industry.
Lots of different approaches. There's lots
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of different things that you can do
and you know what will probably work in
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some form. But unless you get
the fundamentals right, then everything you do
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will have it a limited effect and
probably won't last that long, and I
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think that's why you see a lot
of CMOS and a lot of leadership in
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marketing with very short ten years in
their roles, because they're spending most of
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their time trying to justify whither than
the first place. Absolutely I'm also question
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can of then just came up based
on the on your two to to make
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prevous question. Ideal community to spend
one evening with twelve or fought in CMOS
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in the bay area a few weeks
back and we had a very interesting topic
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of conversation at some point in the
evening while we spoke about how do you
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market to existing opportunities? And and
what I realize? I realized that most
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of them and some of them are
on the table of part of very large
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organization you are probably focusing on.
They made me feel that the focus most
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of that efforts in generating net new
leads. Jared's your compulities, if you
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will. It's whatever community was declared
those something was getting into the CR and
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system. They kind of left it
to the sense team to follow up and
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close basic but since the conversation was
going around account based marketing, going back
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into the accounts, people going quiet
on you. And the question I've got
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for you is, do you suggest? Do you recommend or what would be
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the first of the Joe? How
much time you should you mean this in
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actually marketing to existing opportunities, and
I'm not talking about opportunities that are closed
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business and talking about people that's yourself, Temakry, currently trying to sell into
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and they know that there is something
going on. Yeah, yeah, not.
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So this is an account space approach. And how can you sell more,
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you know, to your existing course
smers and yeah, look, I
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think it's a you know, account
based marketing, which again is a big
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misunderstood and misuse ten right, because
a lot of people think that kind of
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space marketing is a technology, which
it is because, you know, it's
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an account based marketing platform. But
I can't base marketings a strategy and you
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know it's a very broad strategy and
it makes a lot of sense for marketing.
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The parlmanent look his own normally kind
of rolls out right. So is
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what happens is sales say to marketing, right, look, you do top
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of the funnel and cares a lot
of leads, right, and will kind
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of trash those leads, but we'll
pick the ones who want to pick.
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It goes the sales and then sales
say, look, marketing helpers, you
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know, provide some information for as
enablement, what they would classify as enable
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them, which is really just kind
of information for the sales guys to use.
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Now that is an account based marketing
and it's kind of often leverage that
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way. But a strategy and account
based marketing strategy, you know, right
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the way through the phone. So
I believe that marketing can provide and I've
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seen it, you know, with
with our own clients a huge amount of
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value to the sales process and you
know to and just by mapping out that
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process, that and having that integrated
pipeline and having agreed ways of working across
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the sales and marketing program then you
know marketing can provide a huge, huge
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amount of value. And I've seen
this, and you know sales teams where
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sales teams have seen the value of
this and and you know and really really
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get behind it. And you know
and and there's a lots of great companies
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out there. They're doing this really
well. And you know lots of salespeople
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that you know now won't go and
work at a tech company if these kind
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of funder mental pieces are in place
because when they've seen it in the organization
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they've come from and how powerful it
is, then you know they didn't know.
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They're going to limit this success if
these things are not in place.
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So if it's hard to do,
it takes a new mindset and takes,
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you know, leadership the whole business
being on board. You know there's going
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to be some people, who I'm
particularly in sales and marketing teams, that
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don't buy into it, but it
really is the only way to approach it
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and and it's on the mount and
things of getting anything right. Absolutely,
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but do you think is because it's
got a normal practice to the belt section
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that marketing should be insense? You
right on by black brother, or when
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you oh yeah, they're finitely normal
practice. And look it. Even pipeline
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is kind of second phase for most
businesses. I think most businesses are.
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And looky, you know there's there's
I'm not a big I don't buy into
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the whole you know, the US
has a lot more mature than your or
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the UK. I think there's an
element of truth in that, but I
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think in general, the you know, most businesses, more Marston teams,
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are being still measured on output,
and what I mean by that is number
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of leads, N Q up Right, and number of campaigns, number of
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people visitors the website. You know, these kind of metrics which are you
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know, you need to have the
need to understand what they are leading to
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us some thing which is the room
and you, at the end of the
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day, yeah, of course,
and and but it's in isolation the kind
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of useless and ring because all it
does is this is what kind of happens
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and here's the CEO or the CFO, or whatever I want to cemode keeps
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coming back and ask them for more
money and keeps presenting the same metrics over
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and over again, and then the
CFO goes okay. Well, we've been
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doing that for a year now and
as we've spent x amounts of dollars on
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tactics and new technology and New People
and you know, actually we've got very
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little for it. Great, we've
you know, we've done five more campaigns
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and you know what we've now doing, personalization on the website. Well,
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that's fantastic for me. A lot
of these kind of things are common sense,
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but they haven't been able to drive
down to the bottom line in terms
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of driving new customers. And again
that, you know, comes back to
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the same kind of problem that we
see over and over again in terms of
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the you know, have a you
know, our behigging in our business is,
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you know, we want to make
our customers heroes. And you know
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what marketing people that going through right
now. Markets and organizations and people are
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going feel a huge transformation and this
stuff is hard. But when I see
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are some of our whether it be
our clients or the marketplace, doing things
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that and spending lots of lots of
money on things that are going to have
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a really limited effect. You know, we've got to speak out because,
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you know, it's the wrong it's
just fundamentally the wrong approach. There's lots
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of reason behind it and why it
happens, but you know, a lot
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of these kind of things now are
relatively simple, and simple as hard.
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And that's where, again, companies, you know, kind of get lost
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because they get a lost in the
politics of row. Absolutely, so I'm
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kind of drinking it a bit in
the point, but do you think that
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the marketers of tomorrow, the cms
of tomorrow, should actually go to their
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CEO and go to their end of
self shift for any of you? So
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whatever we could at first that alsi
would be responsible for the dog plant and
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actually said, well, I want
to have measurable Apis and objective base on
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revenue, based on company success.
You think as a child? Yeah,
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definitely. Look, I think if
you're a really smart cmo now, then
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you know, if I was going
into a CMO role, I would say
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no, I need a few things
and need, you know, fundamentally,
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tides of revenue number, but I
need the ability in the scope to be
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able to affect that. Yeah,
so that's probably going to need some organizational
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changes. It's going to need a
model right because you know, a lot
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of the can of you know,
let's go back to the health and fitness
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kind of example. A lot of
the kind of things out there at the
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moment, the fads don't are good
in isolation. But it's not a broad
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model and that you know. They
CEMO can presented the CEO and say look,
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here's a model we're going to introduce. Is what I need and need
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your support and need money. I
need I'm willing to, you know,
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be tied to a revenue number and
and get the business on board fast.
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I would do that before I do
anything. The kind of what normally happens
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is you, and I know,
is the CMO, comes in and goes
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what kind of shiny think and I
do to prove of somewhere and I you
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are rebrun the website and and then
you spend half a million dollars rebranding the
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website and what happens is that,
you know, the level of effort compared
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to the level of impact of that
approach then delivers very little. So you
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know, it can of and we'll
see you get frustrated to see if I'll
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get frustrated, the CEIM old leaks
and then we go around again. And
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so if I was to Clo that's
what I would be doing. I would
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basically here's my model, here's my
approach. You give me the support,
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I'll deliver this number. If you
don't give in the support, I'm not
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going to deliver the number. It's
kind of black and white track. That
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makes but, Mike, Perfect Sense. Coming back to ADICTI good question.
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In the preparation of that book,
guests, we spoke about, and coming
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back to the roven your attribution as
well with a Seras team. We spoke
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about our marketing automation playing your role
inspecially dating that. That's rebut you can
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you please develop on that a bit
more? Yeah, Lo markets automation is
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certain a kind of metaphor. The
analogy that I use is it. You
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know, it's an engine and from
a often team and it's it's at the
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center of the markets and business.
You know, it kind of has to
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be integrated to the the CRM and
whatever that is. You know we've got
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to be pulling data back and forth
and you know we've got a every channel
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that we access, you know,
has to be pulling back data from that
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channel into the market and automation platform. So we're starting to build up a
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really clear picture of our marketable database
against our addressable total addressable market. And
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you know, for I guess,
the majority of my experience in markets and
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automation, it's not what that like
that right. Often automation is look that.
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How could we, you know,
automate emails right? How can we
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what we do now? Let's keep
doing that, but can we do it
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better and show me? That's a
completely not a waste of time and it's
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not what it was supposed to be. That makes perfect sensely what? Thank
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you very much, riving, and
thanks for all the insight the INPUTETUE.
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We shall with us today. We
have a traditional question at you know,
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the book guest which is both if
someone wants to get inductries, you ne
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to is all as or down some
of the peaks we discussed today, or
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if they want to to engage with
printakes, what would be the best way
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to wongage with you? Yeah,
the easiest way to channel's on instagram or
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Linkedin. Obviously, for my name's
a Linkedin or Instagram is late on the
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school hacket and we're trying to build
a community of blueprint cks, of marketing
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and sales people and, you know, really roll out these best practices and
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take away a lot of the kind
of misinformation and on a lack of understanding
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of what, you know, the
fundamentals are. So, you know,
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more than happy if anyone was to
shoot me a message direct but, you
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know, really appreciate you taking the
time to, you know, to bring
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me on and and, you know, and and answer the questions while lead
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was great to have under shoot the
day to. Thank you very much for
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thing. Thanks all. Appreciate it. operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue
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generation for technology companies worldwide. While
the traditional concepts of building and managing inside
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00:22:11.829 --> 00:22:15.779
sales teams inhouse has existed for many
years, companies are struggling with a lack
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00:22:15.859 --> 00:22:22.019
of focus, agility and scale required
in today's fast and complex world of enterprise
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00:22:22.140 --> 00:22:30.210
technology sales. See How operatics can
help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet.
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00:22:30.049 --> 00:22:33.890
You've been listening to be to be
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