54: What an Agile Sales Team Looks Like at IBM w/ Ewing Gillaspy

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:07.549 You're listening to be to be revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping software 2 00:00:07.589 --> 00:00:11.789 executive stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's 3 00:00:11.789 --> 00:00:17.789 get into the show. Welcome to be tob revenue acceleration. My name is 4 00:00:17.910 --> 00:00:22.339 Dan Seberk and I'm here today with you and Gillaspy, outbound sales enablement leader 5 00:00:22.460 --> 00:00:26.539 at IBM Watson talent. You in. How are you doing today? I'm 6 00:00:26.620 --> 00:00:29.579 doing great. Thanks for having me. I thank you for coming on the 7 00:00:29.620 --> 00:00:32.659 show. It's great to have you on, so I'll top it for today 8 00:00:32.939 --> 00:00:36.890 is around what an agile sales team looks like at IBM. But before we 9 00:00:36.969 --> 00:00:41.130 go into that conversation doing, could you please introduce yourself to the audience and 10 00:00:41.289 --> 00:00:44.890 tell us a little bit more about yourself and also what you're doing at IBM. 11 00:00:44.969 --> 00:00:48.530 What's in talent, the company, of course, representing, you're sure, 12 00:00:48.929 --> 00:00:53.240 I'm a failed software developer that studied, you know, computer science as 13 00:00:53.240 --> 00:00:57.320 a background. was always in love with technology. Somehow, after going to 14 00:00:57.439 --> 00:01:00.280 business school, wandered my way into software procurement. So I started my career 15 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:06.670 buying software for, you know, a fiftyzero person organization eighty deals later, 16 00:01:06.790 --> 00:01:11.989 I transitioned into six sigma and process design and measurement systems and I ended up 17 00:01:11.989 --> 00:01:17.189 running recruiting for Asia and somewhere along the way in that journey we rebuilt the 18 00:01:17.269 --> 00:01:22.219 entire recruiting organization, the leaders, the model, the partners, the technology. 19 00:01:22.620 --> 00:01:26.019 Really loved that work and the work I'm doing now feels very similar to 20 00:01:26.420 --> 00:01:30.620 to that work back from two thousand and twelve. So that takes me here. 21 00:01:30.700 --> 00:01:33.810 And I've been a headhunter in between and had a couple of roles in 22 00:01:33.930 --> 00:01:38.890 startups and working with different customers like sears and Expedia and tea mobile and on 23 00:01:38.969 --> 00:01:44.170 their different recruiting models. So very talent acquisition focused. I always tell people 24 00:01:44.489 --> 00:01:48.480 if you sit down at a conference room table to buy a piece of software, 25 00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:51.120 you know and you look at both sides of the table, the vendor 26 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:55.680 and the client. I've done every job except legal in that table. So 27 00:01:56.040 --> 00:02:00.510 my experience is very limited from a domain perspective that very deep within that particular 28 00:02:00.750 --> 00:02:06.189 domain. Yeah, that makes sense, okay, good and earing. I 29 00:02:06.349 --> 00:02:09.189 understand the is that you're of course a strong advocate of using the agile framework 30 00:02:09.229 --> 00:02:13.030 for sales teams to be great, if you could share with us and our 31 00:02:13.030 --> 00:02:16.860 audience why you think the framework is so effective and how you're applying it or 32 00:02:16.939 --> 00:02:21.580 planning to apply it within your team at IBM here? Are Sure? Well, 33 00:02:21.900 --> 00:02:24.580 you know, this is something I just walked into. IBM is all 34 00:02:24.659 --> 00:02:30.129 in on Agile and industry benchmarks would tell you that roughly eighty five to ninety 35 00:02:30.169 --> 00:02:36.689 percent of most agile projects are successful. Drive it, drive a measurable improvement. 36 00:02:36.889 --> 00:02:39.849 Of course it came from Software Engineering, from the S and what I 37 00:02:39.930 --> 00:02:46.000 love about it is it has a relentless focus on the most value added activity 38 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:53.039 on that given day. So that's the concept. Now our HR organization embrace 39 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:57.879 this on very impressed by their work and we are a fast follower of HR 40 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:01.789 so HR. Traditionally, in talent acquisition we had a recruiter that owned a 41 00:03:01.830 --> 00:03:07.229 job and hiring manager relationship. They drive the whole thing there. Think of 42 00:03:07.310 --> 00:03:09.310 about as a sales rep you know they have closed deals. They call them 43 00:03:09.389 --> 00:03:14.860 filled jobs. Having been in both worlds, the similarities are endless. But 44 00:03:15.099 --> 00:03:20.699 our talent acquisition team has reinvented itself with the agile methodology. They are twice 45 00:03:20.699 --> 00:03:27.020 as good as their former self in every meaningful KPI that talent leaders care about. 46 00:03:27.289 --> 00:03:30.729 And none of them own any jobs anymore. They're in pots, they're 47 00:03:30.770 --> 00:03:35.449 in teams, they're in sprints, and so if you can take a recruiting 48 00:03:35.490 --> 00:03:39.530 organization and break down the siload accountability, where I own an account, I 49 00:03:39.689 --> 00:03:43.479 own a job or a client, so to speak, in sales or I 50 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:46.719 own I own the wreck. It's all up to me then and they can 51 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:53.120 become massively more efficient and I think the same opportunity exists in sales. And 52 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:57.710 just to finish the point on why, it's really because of skills. The 53 00:03:57.870 --> 00:04:01.310 skills needed to be successful in any job is changing at a rate that we 54 00:04:01.349 --> 00:04:06.310 can't really keep up with. So the more diverse the skill set in within 55 00:04:06.389 --> 00:04:10.780 your team or your pot of your sprint, the more likely you have the 56 00:04:10.819 --> 00:04:16.540 right person executing each task within a continuous sprint or framework and therefore your outputs 57 00:04:16.980 --> 00:04:21.220 become better. Yeah, that's interesting. And as when you both know, 58 00:04:21.860 --> 00:04:29.490 you mentioned about you're generally following hw it within ideam and and it. And 59 00:04:29.610 --> 00:04:32.930 there are occasions, of course, right hl can be very much compliance driven. 60 00:04:32.970 --> 00:04:36.290 So as a result of that, often they can be resistant to change. 61 00:04:36.569 --> 00:04:40.399 Without in mind, and if you bring that across to your sales team. 62 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:44.040 What, if any, resistance have you seen from your team to actually 63 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:46.240 implement that agile methodology and, if so, why do you think people are 64 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:49.959 resistant to and how do you think you can help them to see the value 65 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:54.269 that that you, of course, all right experiencing? Well, I think 66 00:04:54.269 --> 00:04:59.910 it's the right question. I think that we're experiencing tool overload like never before. 67 00:04:59.949 --> 00:05:02.350 So we view the tool. So if we want to talk about technology 68 00:05:02.350 --> 00:05:05.670 for a second, there's only two kinds of technology. There is technology that 69 00:05:05.709 --> 00:05:10.540 I have to click to do something with and there's technology that does all the 70 00:05:10.620 --> 00:05:14.740 clicks for me and delivers me an outcome. So I am ridiculously focused on 71 00:05:14.819 --> 00:05:20.569 the second category, and this second category has almost no naysayers. You're not 72 00:05:20.610 --> 00:05:26.170 going to find a sales room. It gets upset when something like outbound workscom 73 00:05:26.329 --> 00:05:28.970 books an appointment on your counter and your show up and it's a great meeting. 74 00:05:29.250 --> 00:05:31.250 Give you no change management, like what are you going to change? 75 00:05:31.569 --> 00:05:35.199 A little bit of territory rules and some contact strategy and maybe you know don't 76 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:39.040 touch a certain account number of times, all on the back end, all 77 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:43.519 manage by sales ops. No change plan meetings fall from a sky. So 78 00:05:44.199 --> 00:05:48.639 it's embracing that kind of a stack and really pursuing aggressively there. I'm out 79 00:05:48.680 --> 00:05:51.910 talking to sales enablement leaders all across the country right now. I'm calling a 80 00:05:51.990 --> 00:05:56.269 lot of IBM alumni now that I'm in this role. Not New to sales, 81 00:05:56.310 --> 00:06:00.550 but I'm new to enablement, and what I'm teasing out from these conversations 82 00:06:00.629 --> 00:06:06.139 is that they're very tool overloaded, but they, like me, have not 83 00:06:06.259 --> 00:06:12.620 unlimited budget but unlimited appetite for the second category. So your right, that 84 00:06:12.660 --> 00:06:17.420 change is hard because so many of these sellers and recruiters, to use the 85 00:06:17.459 --> 00:06:25.129 same analogy, have embraced and tried to use these interfaces that, quite frankly, 86 00:06:26.209 --> 00:06:30.009 most of which are just not intuitive, and so it requires a lot 87 00:06:30.050 --> 00:06:33.839 of failure to get to efficiency if it's the kind that I have to click 88 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:38.600 and do everything. Yeah, okay, that's an interesting point. Now you're 89 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:42.959 rising there. And in terms of agile within a sales environment that they are 90 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:46.120 putting together in the context of IBM, is that something that's being rolled out 91 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:49.750 as a as a company wide strategy? Is that something that's more of a 92 00:06:49.910 --> 00:06:54.069 pilot within within the watch and talent division? That you, of course. 93 00:06:54.149 --> 00:06:57.910 What within what? What's the sort of strategy overall at Idam around that? 94 00:06:58.230 --> 00:07:02.420 Yeah, so agile has beaten us to the punch in marketing, right, 95 00:07:02.579 --> 00:07:06.699 so you're going to find it in many different marketing organizations. It's new to 96 00:07:06.779 --> 00:07:12.379 sales and and this is a pilot. So we're embracing this idea that if 97 00:07:12.459 --> 00:07:16.250 talent acquisition can do better work in teams, then let's let's see if we 98 00:07:16.329 --> 00:07:20.209 get the same result in sales and then go back and consider how to roll 99 00:07:20.290 --> 00:07:25.209 out further. So the first team goes live in in August. Okay, 100 00:07:25.490 --> 00:07:28.689 all right, that makes sense. Now actually going off topic again. Really 101 00:07:29.089 --> 00:07:30.759 I'm sure audience would love to hear more about your thoughts and this, so 102 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:35.480 I'll be in. Watson talent is a recruitment platform that's using AI to predict 103 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:40.399 who is best suit, what is the best candidate for your organization. Now 104 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:43.399 there's a lot to be set around automation and, to your point, there 105 00:07:43.399 --> 00:07:48.069 around the second type of technology, which involves no clicking. Ai Automation and 106 00:07:48.189 --> 00:07:54.949 making the lives easier humans is is right at the top of many organization priorities. 107 00:07:55.389 --> 00:07:58.350 But it's still a lot to be said for that human to human interaction 108 00:07:58.430 --> 00:08:03.500 in both sales and recruitment and hiring processes. So, in terms of using 109 00:08:03.579 --> 00:08:07.259 your solution, how how do you think businesses can be sure that they're not 110 00:08:07.459 --> 00:08:11.139 missing less obvious aspects such as a person's attitude and work ethic, when a 111 00:08:11.220 --> 00:08:16.170 CV maybe can't give you that that that thought, sort of picture or impression 112 00:08:16.209 --> 00:08:22.290 of of each candidate? Excellent question. So multiple answers here are. I'll 113 00:08:22.329 --> 00:08:26.050 give you the one that I think is most applicable to cross industries, and 114 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:31.120 that is that we've as an industry, we focused on making the Canon experience 115 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:37.759 so simple that it's easier to apply than ever before. There are entire companies 116 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:41.990 who sold focus is to reduce the number of clicks to apply. So we've 117 00:08:43.029 --> 00:08:46.590 actually gone so far the other way that I would say to any organization not 118 00:08:46.830 --> 00:08:52.509 using our technology, you are definitely missing hundreds and thousands of great personalities that 119 00:08:52.629 --> 00:08:58.100 don't even get a look and and so when you compare that to looking at 120 00:08:58.299 --> 00:09:03.100 the people in your populations then have the best skill fit for the job. 121 00:09:03.779 --> 00:09:07.980 You still run a human process from there and assess personality and all kinds of 122 00:09:09.059 --> 00:09:11.570 culture fit. But when you lay out the math which we do. We 123 00:09:11.690 --> 00:09:15.769 have these lunch of Lemans and things that we do from time to time and 124 00:09:15.970 --> 00:09:20.809 we take participants through the math. If I've if I'm working twenty eight jobs 125 00:09:20.889 --> 00:09:24.600 with an average advocant volume of a hundred twenty five, we do seven interviews 126 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:30.279 per job and you just do the time based activity analysis. Half of the 127 00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:35.799 candidate population is never getting a look at all, and so how much buried 128 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:39.429 treasure is in that group? So the human model doesn't even have time to 129 00:09:39.509 --> 00:09:43.429 inspect everything in front of you. The machine model gives you a start that 130 00:09:43.590 --> 00:09:50.470 is statistically significantly more likely to be a positive outcome and let you pick personalities 131 00:09:50.509 --> 00:09:54.100 and run your normal process from that point. That makes sense absolutely. Now 132 00:09:54.179 --> 00:09:58.419 that that completely makes seven sense. And again, I think across industries, 133 00:09:58.580 --> 00:10:03.220 when you look at tools like automation and that allpa world, there's always at 134 00:10:03.259 --> 00:10:09.210 concern around how much is that going to enable a human or how much is 135 00:10:09.289 --> 00:10:11.250 that taking away from a humans day to day job? And I also think 136 00:10:11.250 --> 00:10:16.049 that carries over into things by AI. How much can you gather using technology 137 00:10:16.210 --> 00:10:20.799 from a person's profile versus what a human can get it? I guess it's 138 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:24.440 just the way that the world's moving. It's also, to your point, 139 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:28.600 not about taking away from a humans job but improving their their abilities to make 140 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:33.200 to make accurate judgment really, and also making those individuals more efficient. So 141 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:37.429 that completely makes sense to me. Out of interest, is that something that 142 00:10:37.590 --> 00:10:41.870 you're using as a solution yourself intern the IBM, or what's your, I 143 00:10:41.950 --> 00:10:46.230 guess, your sort of recommended recruitment process from from that perspective is it's at 144 00:10:46.230 --> 00:10:50.220 a similar sort of combination to what you just described. Yes, we use 145 00:10:50.259 --> 00:10:54.419 all of the Watson solutions within our team and we really rely on them for 146 00:10:54.460 --> 00:10:58.700 innovation. They are way out ahead of the market in many areas and if 147 00:10:58.740 --> 00:11:01.460 you look at the war going on in cloud and you look at a little 148 00:11:01.460 --> 00:11:03.690 bit of leaked in data, it won't take you very long to realize that 149 00:11:05.169 --> 00:11:09.490 many other organizations that you've heard of, the usual suspects, the high margin 150 00:11:09.610 --> 00:11:13.370 companies, are hunting from us. So we've had to reinvent ourselves and we've 151 00:11:13.409 --> 00:11:18.370 actually been able to do it in a cost efficient manner because of the combination 152 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:24.080 of agile practices and framework and high automation technologies like Watson. Yeah, that 153 00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:30.000 makes it and in terms of moving forwards, this is, as you said, 154 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:33.509 very much a pilot within within your division at the moment. That IBM, 155 00:11:33.549 --> 00:11:37.909 and it's impossible to forecast what the results will be and and if this 156 00:11:37.029 --> 00:11:41.350 becomes a wider strategy. But of course, based on what we see in 157 00:11:41.549 --> 00:11:46.909 technology functions and what your colleague sounds if they're having success in the marketing department, 158 00:11:46.139 --> 00:11:50.820 I'm sure it will be a success in your team. That that idea 159 00:11:50.899 --> 00:11:56.580 of having pods and that Agile framework from a sales perspective at IBM. Is 160 00:11:56.620 --> 00:11:58.259 that so only? How much of a concept do you think that is, 161 00:11:58.940 --> 00:12:03.330 as a concept, going to translate across to to other organizations, or do 162 00:12:03.330 --> 00:12:05.769 you still think, as it from a sales perspective, that's still will this 163 00:12:05.929 --> 00:12:11.289 sort of rigid model which isn't necessarily evolving, or other organizations maybe aren't looking 164 00:12:11.330 --> 00:12:15.610 at this pot methodology, if you like. I think the primary way to 165 00:12:15.690 --> 00:12:20.399 split in your mind is do you have a model where reps have four accounts 166 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:24.799 or four hundred? The closer you get to four hundred, the more that 167 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:31.389 the the addual framework is going to make a immediate and significant impact. The 168 00:12:31.950 --> 00:12:35.870 closer you are to four accounts each, the economies of scale won't be there. 169 00:12:37.350 --> 00:12:41.429 And while you know so, moving a cloth, you know, it's 170 00:12:41.509 --> 00:12:45.740 just a different problem. It's a different set of problems, and so it's 171 00:12:45.820 --> 00:12:48.860 organizations that really need to scale. And we've got it. We've got a 172 00:12:48.580 --> 00:12:52.019 certain parts of IBM better like that. So we have everything right. We 173 00:12:52.139 --> 00:12:56.899 have the model where some people have one account and you know we've got we've 174 00:12:56.940 --> 00:13:01.450 got software groups where people have over a hundred so and in digital was sometimes 175 00:13:01.490 --> 00:13:03.529 it can be even higher than that. So it's where it's where you have 176 00:13:03.809 --> 00:13:09.809 that opportunity to scale into more accounts and an efficient manner, where you're going 177 00:13:09.809 --> 00:13:15.519 to get the synergies. Okay, interesting. So really, if you're looking 178 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:18.840 at it that that real top of them pay amid large enterprise account sales rep 179 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:24.799 that maybe is handling ten accounts. The traditional model would still still makes sense. 180 00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:28.789 As you move to more of a a transactional, high volume approach, 181 00:13:28.870 --> 00:13:33.350 that's when when the real value of agile sales as a methodology starts to come 182 00:13:33.389 --> 00:13:37.509 into play. I think I would say it slightly nuance from that. What 183 00:13:37.629 --> 00:13:41.700 you said is is dead on. We look at it more in terms of 184 00:13:41.779 --> 00:13:46.059 the skills. So what it's really about is what's the skill mix of the 185 00:13:46.139 --> 00:13:50.100 team in the pot? And you know, when you think about building the 186 00:13:50.179 --> 00:13:54.659 perfect seller, the the creative writer, the strategic thinker, the visionary can 187 00:13:54.700 --> 00:13:58.690 do their own demos rights really well, follows up meticulously. The CRMS beautiful. 188 00:13:58.809 --> 00:14:01.370 You know, everything's just perfect. There's just not that many that you 189 00:14:01.409 --> 00:14:05.169 can hire and they're really expensive and they know who they are. They tend 190 00:14:05.169 --> 00:14:09.440 to be lone wolf's for obvious reasons. So even if you had four accounts, 191 00:14:09.879 --> 00:14:13.360 you know, like some an oracle or sap or others. Even if 192 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:16.519 you have, you know, four accounts, but there's there's three or four 193 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:20.200 or five stake quarders that you're working with on every deal. The principles of 194 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:24.710 the skills based approach would apply to them as well. You're not going to 195 00:14:24.789 --> 00:14:26.870 get as much synergy from the tech side of the equation. So there's the 196 00:14:26.990 --> 00:14:31.629 text side of the equation and the skill side of the equation. They really 197 00:14:31.669 --> 00:14:35.269 go hand in hand. Okay, that make sense. That's been really you 198 00:14:35.509 --> 00:14:39.019 for insights hearing. So I'm pretty share that. So you. So if 199 00:14:39.019 --> 00:14:41.100 it's taken time to share your thoughts with our audience, which is which must 200 00:14:41.100 --> 00:14:45.139 be much appreciate it from our side. If anyone wants to connect with you 201 00:14:45.220 --> 00:14:48.700 to learn more about I be on watching talent or continue this conversation off flying 202 00:14:48.779 --> 00:14:52.700 with you directly. What's the best way to get in touch with you? 203 00:14:52.049 --> 00:14:56.289 Yeah, traditional email. My emails right on my linked in page. It's 204 00:14:56.370 --> 00:15:01.529 first out last that I be AMCOM and I'm looking to engage. I've written 205 00:15:01.529 --> 00:15:07.519 several notes myself outbound to ibum alumni that were in sales enablement here and now 206 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:11.039 moved on to maybe a start up, and so I'm I'm aggressively seeking these 207 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:16.279 conversations, looking for others that are disrupting their own sales model in some capacity. 208 00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:20.000 So I've had a bunch of very good conversations. Can Trading notes, 209 00:15:22.070 --> 00:15:24.909 so I'm game for that. Why Open for that? I'm actually doing a 210 00:15:24.950 --> 00:15:28.269 lot of that right now. So it's good timing. Okay, wonderful. 211 00:15:28.350 --> 00:15:33.029 Well, we'll of course circulate this and give you the platform to hopefully have 212 00:15:33.149 --> 00:15:37.100 more of those conversations. But again, many thanks for your time today. 213 00:15:37.139 --> 00:15:39.620 You and it's been great on you on the show. Awesome, thanks for 214 00:15:39.659 --> 00:15:46.419 having me. operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technology companies. 215 00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:52.570 Worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhouse has 216 00:15:52.610 --> 00:15:56.210 existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus, agility 217 00:15:56.409 --> 00:16:03.009 and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales. See 218 00:16:03.049 --> 00:16:10.840 How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been listening 219 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:15.080 to be to be revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, 220 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:18.029 subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much 221 00:16:18.070 --> 00:16:19.669 for listening. Until next time,