59: Marketing an Open Source Company w/ Freek Hemminga

September 25, 2019 00:25:52
59: Marketing an Open Source Company w/ Freek Hemminga
B2B Revenue Acceleration
59: Marketing an Open Source Company w/ Freek Hemminga

Sep 25 2019 | 00:25:52

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Show Notes

“Open source” means more than just the software. It’s more of a business model, mindset, and culture — especially when it comes to growing and maintaining upstream and downstream communities.

On this episode, I got to interview Freek Hemminga, Head of EMEA Marketing at SUSE, about the challenges of marketing an open source company.

What we talked about:

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Episode Transcript

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:08.150 You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping software executives 2 00:00:08.150 --> 00:00:11.949 stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get 3 00:00:11.949 --> 00:00:18.149 into the show. Hi, welcome to BTB revenue acceleration. My name is 4 00:00:18.190 --> 00:00:22.219 Dan Seeber and I'm here today with Freak Heminger ahead of a mayor marketing at 5 00:00:22.300 --> 00:00:26.059 suit. Oh you today, freak? I'll fine. Thank you. Good 6 00:00:26.620 --> 00:00:30.100 so, freak, thanks to joining us today. We'll be talking about how 7 00:00:30.219 --> 00:00:33.579 to market and open source company. But before we go into that conversation, 8 00:00:34.460 --> 00:00:38.369 great if you could introduce yourself to our audience and also tell us more about 9 00:00:38.369 --> 00:00:41.130 yourself, as well as sous, which is, of course, the company 10 00:00:41.170 --> 00:00:44.689 you're representing. Okay, no problem. So, yeah, I'm handing up 11 00:00:44.969 --> 00:00:50.240 marketing for EMIA, and the main past that we have here at Susa is, 12 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:55.079 thankually, to generate demand and to generate lead in order to fill our 13 00:00:55.159 --> 00:01:00.200 pipeline. That's the main reason of of our being. The team actually consists 14 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:06.230 of a number of food marketing managers are spread across the geography and obviously they 15 00:01:06.349 --> 00:01:11.310 take care of the actual planning and deployment in their respective region and also in 16 00:01:11.469 --> 00:01:15.670 country and with tous this over a three and a half years now. Actually 17 00:01:15.670 --> 00:01:19.540 also in this role, before I came on board to Tousa, I spent 18 00:01:19.579 --> 00:01:25.780 about three years at a service provider where I was responsible for marketing as well 19 00:01:25.819 --> 00:01:30.980 as actually for severything they are in direct routs to market and also, including 20 00:01:30.299 --> 00:01:37.489 that, was more responsibility for their alliances relationships. Prior to this, I 21 00:01:37.689 --> 00:01:42.810 spend my time as a field marketing manager in inverter software and actually, from 22 00:01:42.890 --> 00:01:49.200 the acquisition of Veritas by semantic I was joining the MIA team where I was 23 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:53.439 handing up ten of working for about eight years or in total. So pretty 24 00:01:53.480 --> 00:02:00.359 much in indirect roots to market. That can't in conguncing with marketing and also 25 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:04.549 in terms of the rest of the partner landscape. Alliances has also been a 26 00:02:04.670 --> 00:02:07.870 big part of of my past experience. Okay, that's just needs sort of 27 00:02:07.870 --> 00:02:12.310 a little bit about myself and my background actually, and in terms of the 28 00:02:12.430 --> 00:02:16.340 company, obviously suits a slightly different based in that you're not, you know, 29 00:02:16.659 --> 00:02:20.780 a normal sort of staff the solution, or you're not a normal solution 30 00:02:20.900 --> 00:02:23.780 where the sales guys go out and sell it and then you go a year 31 00:02:23.780 --> 00:02:27.620 later and get a renew or whatever. You're an open source software company. 32 00:02:28.219 --> 00:02:30.810 So could you provide a bit of background on Your Business and and the solution 33 00:02:30.889 --> 00:02:36.770 you're offering and and the way in which you're set up? Absolutely what I've 34 00:02:36.849 --> 00:02:40.449 never dealt with open source myself before. Just to put that to to to 35 00:02:40.490 --> 00:02:44.479 make the clear up front her. For me it was also a completely new 36 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:49.319 journey when I went on board at schoozer. But actually stooze is is the, 37 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:52.680 as we call it, the open open source company, and we work 38 00:02:52.719 --> 00:02:59.430 with an ecosystem of partners and communities whereby we deliver enterprise great open source software, 39 00:02:59.469 --> 00:03:04.750 defined infrastructures and also application delivery solutions. So very much on the on 40 00:03:04.870 --> 00:03:09.110 the platform layer and the infrastructure layer wererectly providing our services for and on. 41 00:03:09.629 --> 00:03:15.539 But obviously all of that is also backed by our services and support to make 42 00:03:15.580 --> 00:03:20.419 sure that customers are getting a continue to support on on the solutions that are 43 00:03:20.419 --> 00:03:27.289 are consuming from us. And many people are themselves what about this open which 44 00:03:27.409 --> 00:03:30.050 is, I think, a very valid question to ask. But what it 45 00:03:30.129 --> 00:03:35.050 really means versus that open means more than just software. And then the open 46 00:03:35.129 --> 00:03:39.129 source software as so it's so for its it's more of a business models of 47 00:03:39.250 --> 00:03:45.719 culture. So we're also very keen to live it throughout our organization, leveraging 48 00:03:45.800 --> 00:03:50.479 our Linux heritage, because that's where we have emerged from. We also deliver 49 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:55.669 open source solutions across other areas and we are very keen to make sure that 50 00:03:55.990 --> 00:04:00.789 whatever we develop, whatever we sell in terms of solutions and services into our 51 00:04:00.949 --> 00:04:06.469 customers, that we actually really make sure that there is no kind of vendor 52 00:04:06.550 --> 00:04:11.580 looking or anything like that. So we really want to make sure that customers 53 00:04:11.860 --> 00:04:16.860 have always the freedom of rice and therefore also never will feel looked in by 54 00:04:16.899 --> 00:04:20.699 ourselves. So the two very important message I want to get out of here, 55 00:04:21.060 --> 00:04:27.370 and what we're also doing is on their platform many for stricture layer is 56 00:04:27.529 --> 00:04:32.129 helping customers in their journey on the digital transformation, because obviously they're the big 57 00:04:32.170 --> 00:04:38.290 seen these days, although since a number of years, but it's a very 58 00:04:38.410 --> 00:04:43.160 long Johny for most companies. Show only just started, but we're very keen 59 00:04:43.319 --> 00:04:47.480 that we actually help and support and use a customers on that journey towards a 60 00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:53.189 ditical transformation of their business. Okay, excellent. Well, appreciate the background 61 00:04:53.189 --> 00:04:58.709 and it's seems like both yourself you've got a guess, a long and relatively 62 00:04:58.750 --> 00:05:02.430 sort of focus background between channel and marks and then suited as a company of 63 00:05:02.910 --> 00:05:06.740 and of developed out the Linux Open source background into the into the business that 64 00:05:06.819 --> 00:05:10.459 you are today that you just describe. Now. One of the things that 65 00:05:10.500 --> 00:05:14.500 we just touch on there being an open sort of open source software company. 66 00:05:15.019 --> 00:05:16.579 The nature of this business, of course, in your role is are there 67 00:05:16.620 --> 00:05:21.410 must be a balance between marketing, the brand, as in suitor and and 68 00:05:21.689 --> 00:05:26.129 the software, that technology itself, as well as, to your point a 69 00:05:26.170 --> 00:05:29.810 few minutes go around, the services and the support and subscription to old to 70 00:05:29.850 --> 00:05:32.290 me, generate the revenue for an open source company in your role. You 71 00:05:32.370 --> 00:05:38.079 mentioned that primarily marketing on are in place to generate demand and generate leads. 72 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:41.439 But where do you see the main for what do you see among main focus 73 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:46.360 as being? How do you think that differs from Your Traditional Enterprise Software Company? 74 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:49.949 Yeah, very good question and in fact actually it is always a balancing 75 00:05:50.069 --> 00:05:56.589 x to drafts both areas and in a way I find it comparable to the 76 00:05:56.709 --> 00:06:00.870 traditional software vendors, however, that accepts you. Where we have to deal 77 00:06:00.949 --> 00:06:05.779 with is also an upstream community where we still have to make sure we're driving 78 00:06:05.819 --> 00:06:12.379 awareness around our brand, but also around our solutions for the respective open source 79 00:06:12.500 --> 00:06:17.339 project that these upstream communities are responsible for or that they represent, and for 80 00:06:17.459 --> 00:06:21.850 our course, solutions. We must continue to build the market awareness of the 81 00:06:21.970 --> 00:06:27.009 problems which we are we believe the open source is the solution to and also 82 00:06:27.089 --> 00:06:30.490 the lastly, what we can offer in order to help them do that. 83 00:06:30.930 --> 00:06:35.120 Open source is, in a way, all about communities, whether it's your 84 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:42.040 partner ecosystem, which we call the downs, the downstream communities of the downstream 85 00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:46.470 areas, but equally important is also the the upstream. So I'm not sure 86 00:06:46.589 --> 00:06:51.790 how how well where you are of these upstream communities, but what I have 87 00:06:51.910 --> 00:06:57.430 started to experience that actually it's just like a big fan base around this particular 88 00:06:57.470 --> 00:07:00.740 project. So it's a very different way of how you're dealing with that. 89 00:07:00.939 --> 00:07:05.379 So it's not about the hardcore marketing message that is completely setting people off and 90 00:07:05.459 --> 00:07:10.019 upsetting them at the same time, and so you really have to make sure 91 00:07:10.100 --> 00:07:15.100 that you really contributing by by knowledge that you were bring value to the conversation. 92 00:07:15.620 --> 00:07:16.889 So it's more of a dialog. So if you want as well, 93 00:07:17.009 --> 00:07:21.089 and we also need to make sure that we have a representation of to in 94 00:07:21.209 --> 00:07:26.889 these e open source project in order to make sure there, you know, 95 00:07:27.209 --> 00:07:31.199 people in the community alls receptive to what we're bring to them. So it's 96 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:35.879 all about giving take and it's not about it we going in with through traditional 97 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:41.680 hardcore marketing message because again, there is not working at all. So you 98 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:44.910 have to be treating it in a way that, you know, people feel 99 00:07:45.029 --> 00:07:48.829 that you as a brand actually bring value to their community. Yeah, that 100 00:07:49.189 --> 00:07:53.189 and that's an interesting point in making there, which is the nature of those 101 00:07:53.670 --> 00:08:00.100 individuals that reside within the upstream community, which are guessing developers and similar to 102 00:08:00.259 --> 00:08:03.699 the roles, just by their very nature of their role and the type of 103 00:08:03.779 --> 00:08:07.540 person that typically goes into that role. They don't really react well to that, 104 00:08:07.620 --> 00:08:13.889 that standard sort of direct sales and marketing approach, which is engaging with 105 00:08:13.930 --> 00:08:16.370 them from cold and just trying to push products and messages down the throat. 106 00:08:16.689 --> 00:08:20.930 I think they they're difficult to find on places like Linkedin and Zing and and 107 00:08:22.290 --> 00:08:24.689 all of those sort of social media platform they don't really want to make themselves 108 00:08:24.769 --> 00:08:30.199 publicly available. So I think to your point that that marketing around sort of 109 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:35.399 knowledge sharing and being a trusted adviser and and being part of that community is 110 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:39.399 seemed to be extremely important for them. I guess we're touching on that now, 111 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:43.909 which leads me to my next question, which is clearly marketing strategy for 112 00:08:43.950 --> 00:08:48.389 a company like yourself is to build relationship with those communities, both the upstream 113 00:08:48.429 --> 00:08:52.309 communities and downstream communities, which, of course, that the partners. Now, 114 00:08:52.470 --> 00:08:56.899 as we both know, communities tend to be built organically, although you 115 00:08:56.980 --> 00:09:01.620 can of course accelerate that as a business, and there are many ways to 116 00:09:01.820 --> 00:09:05.539 both have positively and, as you just mentioned, negatively influenced communities, but 117 00:09:05.580 --> 00:09:09.659 will focus on the positive to now. So from your perspective, what are 118 00:09:09.700 --> 00:09:13.529 some of the marketing tactics, whether at Susa or just generally, you can 119 00:09:13.570 --> 00:09:18.570 apply in order to develop and also maintain the communities that you're you're building? 120 00:09:18.610 --> 00:09:22.690 Yeah, well, we do that through must pall tactics. So you know, 121 00:09:22.289 --> 00:09:26.759 of course, you can think about some of the big open source projects 122 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:31.320 that have their own conferences attached to it. You know, this particular week 123 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:35.559 we had the carfindary simony in the Hake, you've cube calling our open source 124 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:41.509 summers. There are so many of these conferences. So that's where you have 125 00:09:41.629 --> 00:09:45.309 an ability to do engage with. You know, we at least a very 126 00:09:45.389 --> 00:09:48.789 specific community, because it's sort of more of a comparing way to to protuce 127 00:09:50.629 --> 00:09:54.740 there in mind, and actually a lot of the tech people are credit to 128 00:09:54.820 --> 00:09:58.539 though, on twitter, and also what you typically see, and you know 129 00:09:58.580 --> 00:10:03.379 I don't generalize here, but what if we generally see if your people are 130 00:10:03.419 --> 00:10:07.330 also very keen about their reputation? So also this is about what they bring 131 00:10:07.370 --> 00:10:11.929 to their community, how they're being perceived and obviously know how how valuable people 132 00:10:11.929 --> 00:10:16.809 will see that they need victual is in terms of their knowledge and thransfer of 133 00:10:16.929 --> 00:10:22.000 that, as well as some of the ideas and perspectives spring to the community. 134 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:24.240 So we will also want to make sure that, through the digital channels, 135 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:30.559 were playing that well and we're engaging actively in these conversations. So that's 136 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:33.879 one way of doing it. And on the other hand, just before I 137 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:37.110 describe that, I also want to sort of give a perspective where we sit 138 00:10:37.230 --> 00:10:41.950 in the hall, in the whole solution, because in a way, who 139 00:10:41.029 --> 00:10:46.509 is a bit like an engine inside the car. Most people don't really think 140 00:10:46.549 --> 00:10:50.899 about their engine when they purchase the car and they are, unless you're eating 141 00:10:50.019 --> 00:10:54.779 neximum performance for race car, for example. That actually on a different topic. 142 00:10:54.259 --> 00:10:58.740 But actually, you know, we are just part of that of that 143 00:10:58.940 --> 00:11:03.370 car and most businesses are being addressed with a mix of independent hotware vendors, 144 00:11:03.490 --> 00:11:11.289 channels, system integrators and such that actually sort of all together having integrated augmented 145 00:11:11.330 --> 00:11:16.769 way of their sellers to bring that car to the market. So within our 146 00:11:16.850 --> 00:11:20.600 go to market we have multiple roots to market. We need to play the 147 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:24.840 firm. We need to make sure it at also the receptiveness to our solutions 148 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:30.200 is well in you stood by their sellers, who are typically do control often 149 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:33.110 the skills engagement before we get involved, but also that they are able to 150 00:11:33.230 --> 00:11:41.230 articulate the value that we bring. So in terms of influencing or engaging with 151 00:11:41.549 --> 00:11:45.789 with the audiences, we are not you looking just at sort of these print 152 00:11:45.830 --> 00:11:50.860 communities where we do a bit of face to face physical events. You want, 153 00:11:50.419 --> 00:11:54.379 this is digital. But we also really need to make sure that we 154 00:11:54.539 --> 00:12:00.899 don't get that that middle part who's doing all the augmentation of the various elements 155 00:12:00.980 --> 00:12:05.210 to bring the total solutions customers. So that part, for is is equally 156 00:12:05.289 --> 00:12:09.809 important that we make sure that we're all, thankfully applying various tactics to bring 157 00:12:09.929 --> 00:12:16.600 that knowledge transfer and bring it insight to our sellers of our indirect roots to 158 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:20.639 market and our partner ecosystem. So that's what kind of tactics can think about. 159 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:26.440 We do actual love of engagement with them on their big Trados where typically 160 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:30.070 a large portion of their sellers is available. We also spend a lot of 161 00:12:30.190 --> 00:12:35.870 time on partner enablement, whether it's some of partners or alliances, wherefore actually 162 00:12:35.909 --> 00:12:39.070 we have also partner able the team so lically toughly taking good care of that, 163 00:12:39.509 --> 00:12:43.950 and we also make sure that we do actually a lot of say to 164 00:12:43.029 --> 00:12:48.820 a degree. Account Base Marketing Approach is to make sure that within specific partners 165 00:12:48.419 --> 00:12:54.820 we are creating an uplift around the awareness around our solutions that are specific with 166 00:12:54.019 --> 00:12:58.259 that particular of a partner that we bring to market. So if it's a 167 00:12:58.340 --> 00:13:01.330 big as I we want to make sure that we didn't. As I there's 168 00:13:01.330 --> 00:13:05.570 a good understanding that actually sees this part of their portfolio and worth the role 169 00:13:05.049 --> 00:13:09.169 is is that we're playing in their total solution they're being to markets or in 170 00:13:09.250 --> 00:13:13.840 the particular business practice at they're bring to markets and so on. So for 171 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:18.200 all these partners too, fights where we're doing that equally. But also we 172 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:22.679 need to make sure we're driving a lot of tactics towards our end use of 173 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:24.879 communities, because at the end of today, we also say there's all that 174 00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:28.070 full and push at the end of the day. So we also want to 175 00:13:28.149 --> 00:13:31.950 make sure that also the end uses have an understanding why they actually need us 176 00:13:33.070 --> 00:13:37.230 and actually that they can also recrecent from their partner. But also with the 177 00:13:37.309 --> 00:13:41.309 changes of the whole roots to market these days, where you have the higher 178 00:13:41.389 --> 00:13:43.899 scalers, or the service providers, if you want, that have been on 179 00:13:43.940 --> 00:13:48.139 the rise the last few years. You know, likes of Amazon, Google 180 00:13:48.379 --> 00:13:50.899 and markets soft with Azure. There was actually also more of a trend that 181 00:13:52.379 --> 00:13:56.889 and user style directly to these market places and therefore wheelso need to make sure 182 00:13:56.970 --> 00:14:01.570 that also those people on the injuries are side now where to find us and 183 00:14:01.850 --> 00:14:05.450 actually that they will find us, or at least search for us, on 184 00:14:05.529 --> 00:14:09.360 those market places for building and putting together their solutions on them on these public 185 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:15.960 cards. So again it's a mixture of face to face as well as digital, 186 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:20.919 and the digital part what I've experiences on the rise of the last three 187 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:26.029 years by a riotically in comparison to before. But again it's also about being 188 00:14:26.110 --> 00:14:31.629 more laser focus and more specific and being able to deliver a more relevant message 189 00:14:31.389 --> 00:14:37.789 to the respective personas at the particular stational buying cycle. Absolutely, and that 190 00:14:37.070 --> 00:14:41.740 will make sense and that does a great sort of insight into what you're doing 191 00:14:41.820 --> 00:14:45.379 there and, course, those various different mediums or tactics that you're applying a 192 00:14:45.659 --> 00:14:52.259 facetoface at the events and digital channels across your partner ecosystem and then obviously influencing 193 00:14:52.379 --> 00:14:56.330 directly and uses as well. Clearly, from a marketing perspective that involves quite 194 00:14:56.370 --> 00:15:01.210 a bit of upfront investment, particularly at for a software come for an open 195 00:15:01.289 --> 00:15:07.090 source company, before you actually start recognizing revenue, because you're they're starting to 196 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:09.320 use lize your solution and it's obviously not until he gets that point in time 197 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:15.759 where you're either they either require support or further subscriptions and services around that that 198 00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:20.549 you you still actually generating revenue now prior to that stage. Really, what 199 00:15:20.669 --> 00:15:24.710 are the some of the sort of measurements that you can use to understand the 200 00:15:24.909 --> 00:15:31.350 impact that you're marketing is actually having on these communities, both from a pre 201 00:15:31.549 --> 00:15:33.789 revenue but also a revenue stage. How do you measure the impact that your 202 00:15:33.830 --> 00:15:37.419 marketings having on those communities? Yeah, and this is this is actually working. 203 00:15:37.580 --> 00:15:41.419 Start to differ quite a bit from a few years ago. And where 204 00:15:41.500 --> 00:15:48.379 you see? That's all the traditional software companies still have their potatial licensing models 205 00:15:48.100 --> 00:15:52.570 where you have a big deal, you get all the cast up front, 206 00:15:52.970 --> 00:15:54.929 so it's sold one and this a you know, you know exactly what it 207 00:15:56.250 --> 00:16:00.529 was that marketing has been contributing to the business, in this case within subscription 208 00:16:00.610 --> 00:16:03.289 base or whether it's, you know, a recurring revenue stream. It becomes 209 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:08.440 indeed a bit more complicated. So it's still all quite possible to measure the 210 00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:14.240 contributions were making, but you have to do that over a longer period of 211 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:18.950 time to really measure correctly what your actual impact is and therefore what your total 212 00:16:19.070 --> 00:16:26.350 returners of your investor euro dollar a pound, and so where we are measuring 213 00:16:26.629 --> 00:16:30.350 in the first place, our success from a marketing standpoint is what we are 214 00:16:30.389 --> 00:16:36.059 contributing to our pipeline, and I mean the active pipeline. So hopeviously we 215 00:16:36.340 --> 00:16:40.139 bring an awful lot of opportunities and some of those go go and loss, 216 00:16:40.539 --> 00:16:45.419 which is all totally understandable, but we're also really measuring how, from its 217 00:16:45.860 --> 00:16:51.570 subscription based revenue do we contribute to the total pipeline? So that's one side 218 00:16:51.610 --> 00:16:53.690 of it. And then, secondly, we're also measuring the extensive we know 219 00:16:53.769 --> 00:17:00.570 what's the revenue, the subscription based revenue, that we bring to the bottom 220 00:17:00.649 --> 00:17:04.559 line, where we actually see also the closed opportunities getting in our books. 221 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:11.000 The one thing, though, that we're also moving towards to industry to start 222 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:15.630 moving in the direction where we are able to measure the customer lifetime value, 223 00:17:17.109 --> 00:17:19.829 and this is a bit more complicated. It's particularly at least an hour space. 224 00:17:19.990 --> 00:17:25.230 is where you see that the initial order, the initial subscription, often 225 00:17:25.470 --> 00:17:29.509 is relatively low in terms of value because you know, they get it set 226 00:17:29.549 --> 00:17:33.180 up, they do the cause staff and then actually is that all overnch day 227 00:17:33.339 --> 00:17:37.059 order, the next best which actually is for their prediction, violens. And 228 00:17:37.220 --> 00:17:42.059 this is where, you know, where it becomes more important and interesting, 229 00:17:42.500 --> 00:17:47.890 because then you see that, over a twelve month period, for example, 230 00:17:48.809 --> 00:17:55.329 the value of that particular customer that we through to the business significantly higher than 231 00:17:55.410 --> 00:17:59.039 what it might have looked after the first month. So that's what I mean. 232 00:17:59.079 --> 00:18:03.319 You have to really look at the longevity of the customer relationship on the 233 00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:07.359 one hand, and also the value it builds up over the time. And 234 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:10.839 you know, on the other hand, which is typically what you see by 235 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:15.390 recurring or with recurring revenues strings, is that you also have to start factoring 236 00:18:15.430 --> 00:18:19.109 any turn that you're getting from from your customer base because it the end, 237 00:18:19.109 --> 00:18:22.630 it's Day, you have to make up for that because if you get to 238 00:18:22.869 --> 00:18:26.029 you losing that revenue stream as well. And this is, I think, 239 00:18:26.069 --> 00:18:33.299 the next step for organizations like ours that are to them the transformation of prescription 240 00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:37.700 even to recurring, which you also have seen with the likes of Microsoft, 241 00:18:37.740 --> 00:18:41.650 for example. Yeah, good examples are though. We you there to had 242 00:18:41.690 --> 00:18:45.009 a very Richard turn turn around food extually came. I was very strong. 243 00:18:45.529 --> 00:18:48.450 So a lot of soup for companies are gone through a transition to really become 244 00:18:48.609 --> 00:18:52.930 not to subcust in verse, but even recruiting absolutely, and regarding that piece 245 00:18:53.009 --> 00:18:57.720 around reducing Chourn and really focusing on the customer success, that you acquire a 246 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:00.960 client and then how you can go from, and she's starting with a small 247 00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:04.519 client to helping them to become a larger client and then keeping them for the 248 00:19:04.599 --> 00:19:10.069 long period. We had an interesting discussion a few weeks ago on this podcast 249 00:19:10.190 --> 00:19:15.670 with gentleman called Dan stilement from gain sites, and if you have any interest 250 00:19:15.869 --> 00:19:18.950 in listening to that I encouraged to do so because that was a an indepth 251 00:19:18.990 --> 00:19:26.220 discussion around the positive impact of customer success and how actually the what the importance 252 00:19:26.299 --> 00:19:30.660 is about which of that function to reduce. He gave some very interesting stats 253 00:19:30.700 --> 00:19:33.740 around what sales force are doing and how actually a very, very high percentage, 254 00:19:33.779 --> 00:19:37.819 if not pretty much all, of their bookings and now coming from repeat 255 00:19:37.819 --> 00:19:41.289 business and their churn has become very low as they've invested more heavily in customer 256 00:19:41.329 --> 00:19:48.730 success and account management. Then they have of your typical new business sales resources. 257 00:19:48.970 --> 00:19:53.200 One of the points you made there was around tracking active opportunities and an 258 00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:56.559 opportunity and then subsequently revenue, I should say. To get to that point, 259 00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:00.640 of course, from a marketing perspective you have to generate leads and demand, 260 00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:03.200 as you touched on your role fulfilling at the start of this corpor being 261 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:07.349 in open source company. We've seen it before when we open with companies like 262 00:20:07.470 --> 00:20:12.670 elastic, generate a large volume of inbound leads that typically need some some qualification 263 00:20:12.990 --> 00:20:17.349 before they get in the hand of your of your field sales rep where you're 264 00:20:17.349 --> 00:20:22.059 inside cells rap, whoever would take that initial conversation that maybe because they're they're 265 00:20:22.099 --> 00:20:25.819 either two low level or they're not actually a business that ever, just an 266 00:20:25.859 --> 00:20:29.940 individual that's interesting playing around with this sort of software. It there's a lot 267 00:20:29.980 --> 00:20:33.339 of factors that will go into it, but they typically need some further qualification 268 00:20:33.859 --> 00:20:37.569 for a business like yours. What sort of, I guess, percentage or 269 00:20:37.890 --> 00:20:42.410 impact is those inbound leads that you'll generate a lot of them, of course, 270 00:20:42.730 --> 00:20:47.250 having coming on your on your pipeline at revenue is at is that a 271 00:20:47.289 --> 00:20:51.480 large percentage or is that what are the sources would you have? If not? 272 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:56.519 Yeah, excellent questions. Are One of the things that we started to 273 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.200 focus on. More so we started back two years ago on that. If 274 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:06.230 you firstly really enhanced the quality levels on an inquiry level, from from an 275 00:21:06.269 --> 00:21:11.309 inbound perspective. So we use quantities of inquiries. At three years ago, 276 00:21:11.109 --> 00:21:15.549 relatively speaking, there was a low number of the actually really filtered through. 277 00:21:15.670 --> 00:21:18.940 So obviously it's nice to have a high volume of inquiries, but if the 278 00:21:18.980 --> 00:21:22.859 qualities on on part, you know what we what we require in order to 279 00:21:22.900 --> 00:21:26.619 be successful, then you need to see, okay, what you do we 280 00:21:26.740 --> 00:21:30.259 need to do to make sure the quality level is going up. So that 281 00:21:30.500 --> 00:21:34.490 was also where we started to become more targeted, do more segmentation, you 282 00:21:34.809 --> 00:21:38.569 more want to feel really embark on the digital side where you know you have 283 00:21:38.609 --> 00:21:42.690 a lot of ability to to be more targeted, to be more specific, 284 00:21:44.009 --> 00:21:48.200 has a better and a more relevant method to the individuals. And actually now 285 00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:52.559 we really have seen a big fift in terms of that quality so on. 286 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:56.559 Just on the inquiry level, we are actually pretty much static you're over here 287 00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:02.069 at the moment. But on the contrary, we are driving first twenty percent 288 00:22:02.470 --> 00:22:06.269 higher volume on the lead side. So actually is really starting to pay off 289 00:22:06.430 --> 00:22:11.190 that, you know, you can still make a similar investment but actually drive 290 00:22:11.230 --> 00:22:15.670 much more potential pipeline on the back of it. Your other question in terms 291 00:22:15.670 --> 00:22:18.660 of yeah, how do we sort of sit through that? We have teley 292 00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:23.019 qualifiers and the actually within marketing. So they are also my team, and 293 00:22:23.339 --> 00:22:26.460 what they do is they go through all of these leads. So's tried to 294 00:22:26.539 --> 00:22:30.769 contact all of these individuals. So you know, we work with the traditional 295 00:22:30.009 --> 00:22:34.730 orging Model S. it's old, based on the serious decision methodology which actually, 296 00:22:34.730 --> 00:22:41.130 I think these as most people use. So nothing, nothing too specifical 297 00:22:41.250 --> 00:22:44.250 or tailors, I would say. But anyway, they they do work on 298 00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:48.480 on the qualified, the automated qualified leads, and they made sure that they 299 00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:55.519 have a capability to identify thankful interest based on then criteria. If they do 300 00:22:55.759 --> 00:23:00.029 that, then actually they will convert it and then it's being natal to stills, 301 00:23:00.549 --> 00:23:03.390 and we do that by means of a so called warm handle. So 302 00:23:03.509 --> 00:23:07.789 we just not throw it over the trends or just push it through the systems, 303 00:23:07.269 --> 00:23:12.500 but we also make through that the tally qualifiers work with our insight feels 304 00:23:12.500 --> 00:23:15.779 we actually picked it up. They do the first place on the still side, 305 00:23:15.980 --> 00:23:18.900 that they know what it is, that they're seeing where it comes from 306 00:23:18.980 --> 00:23:22.940 and that get some of thistional their part in order to be effective with their 307 00:23:22.019 --> 00:23:27.369 follow up, either themselves or actually that they conveyed to stills wrap or to 308 00:23:27.529 --> 00:23:32.650 a pint our card manager that then consequently can also work again with a partner 309 00:23:32.769 --> 00:23:36.809 on those leads. So that's so the typical model that we apply at the 310 00:23:36.890 --> 00:23:40.450 moment. Okay, interesting and, as you said, over the course of 311 00:23:40.490 --> 00:23:45.599 our discussion. I think approaching marketing for an open source company certainly has some 312 00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:52.400 differences, for particularly around the the the communities piece, or be it still 313 00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:56.150 important to build trusted communities as no matter what type of Software Company are? 314 00:23:56.230 --> 00:23:59.910 But I think that there's added value there for an open source company and also, 315 00:24:00.190 --> 00:24:04.470 obviously it's some slight differences when it comes to to understanding what impact you're 316 00:24:04.470 --> 00:24:10.180 having from a pipeline. In any perspective there's also some some similarities. Really 317 00:24:10.220 --> 00:24:14.059 interesting conversation. Appreciate your insight. So I think we're coming too the end 318 00:24:14.059 --> 00:24:17.380 of Lup of our time today. Free So, and I really appreciate what 319 00:24:17.500 --> 00:24:21.099 you've shared with us today. So I guess last point would be if anyone 320 00:24:21.140 --> 00:24:25.609 wants to connect with you learn more about you or suitor as a company, 321 00:24:26.009 --> 00:24:29.450 what would be the best way to get in touch with pie person, man 322 00:24:29.529 --> 00:24:33.009 or sad the business? Well, personally, people can always retalk to me 323 00:24:33.170 --> 00:24:36.809 on Linkedin on there. I'm also on twitter. So how people can find 324 00:24:36.890 --> 00:24:40.240 me there. Two if you want to connect with whos or want to know 325 00:24:40.359 --> 00:24:42.880 more about what will for, and also if you want to get in touch 326 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:47.599 with Schooza, you can visit schoos it or come and you can either use 327 00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:49.960 the text or you connect the also submit a request called for and you will 328 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:53.549 be called back for the twenty four hours. Excellent. That sounds like a 329 00:24:53.589 --> 00:25:00.230 good SLA. Okay. Well, once again, thanks not for Johan yesterday 330 00:25:00.789 --> 00:25:03.150 free and being great homing on. Sure there's been a pleasure. Thank you 331 00:25:03.190 --> 00:25:11.700 very much. operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technology companies worldwide. 332 00:25:11.740 --> 00:25:18.420 While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhouse has existed 333 00:25:18.500 --> 00:25:22.890 for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus, agility and 334 00:25:22.089 --> 00:25:29.609 scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales. See How 335 00:25:29.730 --> 00:25:36.359 operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been listening to 336 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:41.319 be tob revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe 337 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:44.920 to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. 338 00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:45.079 Until next time,

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