Episode Transcript
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You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executives stay
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on the cutting edge of sales and
marketing in their industry. Let's get into
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the show. Hi, welcome to
be to be a revenue acceleration. My
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name is Ahny. Am with you
and I'm yet today with Garrett me.
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Good see you a directive consulting.
How are you doing today, Garret?
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I'm doing well. Thanks for having
me excited to cheality ray and glad a
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beer. Yeah, that's the absolute
pleasure as well on my side. So
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I'll topic for today is it's time
to value self development and its role in
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BTB marketing success. It's a long
title, but I like the ID behind
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it and I'm very excited about that
conversation today. But before we go into
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the detail, Garrett, could you
present introduce yourself as well as, you
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know, give us more information about
your company directive? Yeah, so I
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started directing about five years ago,
almost six actually, as like five and
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a half years ago, and we
do search marketing for enterprise brands a lot
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in the BBB space storically last two
three years and really focus on BBB.
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And Yeah, we essentially partner with
inhouse marketing teams in the BBB space a
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lot of times demand generation and help
them hit their goals and their kpiyes around
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leads and opportunity stills and revenues.
Yeah, we focus a lot in that
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area and mostly Seo and PBC.
Excellent what that's and that's what it's quite
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intriguing for me because today we would
have expected to probably have more conversation with
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your on digital marketing and Seo.
But I like the fact that your company
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on the stand that their job is
not just to deliver leads, it's you
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care as an organization about what actually
happens to the leads after you end the
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mover to to the cells development team
of your clients, and I think that's
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in valuable. But you know,
we know that when the cells development to
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do leads on, obviously there will
be different kind of outcome that you can
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expect. It could be an opportunity, it could be a not turing opportunity
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or it could be no portunity.
Wrong person, wrong company, won't wrong
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contact. But coming back to my
main question and my opening question, why
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is it time to value selves development
and why do you think it isn't valued
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enough? At the moment selves.
Development goes couple ways right. So a
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lot of times the reason cells development, I wouldn't say selles on isn't necessarily
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valued in high growth organizations. I
think in legacy organizations, sells development isn't
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as valued, and I think one
of the reasons is you know in be
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to be when you have a hired
purchase. Like I've learned, two things
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are really important to why cells development
works or not. One of the things
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that's important for sales development works or
not is timing. I found that the
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most important thing cells development is getting
the time right. With some cool tactics
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that we do, the OPT here
to get the timing right more often.
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So that's really important. But it
depends if you're a replacement pro or an
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add on product, or replacement service
or an add on service. So if
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you were a replacement service, that
means intrinsically for someone to hire you,
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they have to fire someone. And
if your industry relies on more long term
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contracts or six or twelve month contracts, then once again it goes back to
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timing, because they couldn't even hire
you even if they wanted to a lot
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of the times, and so you
have to start to understand and sale development.
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When you have high purchase prices a
replacement product, you have to learning
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at the time. You right,
and so there's a lot of things that
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go in to it. And if
you don't understand all that and you kind
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of think that you're just going to
send out a hundred emails and get free
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responses and then set two meetings and
get one deal, it doesn't actually work
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like that. And so I think
a lot of times people go in with
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the wrong expectations and they don't realize
that takes six months to ramp up and
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SDR sometimes, or it could take, you know, two years of investment
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to build out the team before they
even get to positive Roi and a lot
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of people don't want to invest that
type of capital. Yeah, and if
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in detaining is key, you know
we we've seen you tour and prior res
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so have you. But I think
if someone done a load twenty pages white
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paper, following up with them within
five minutes of them doing the done lad
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might not be a ready relevance because
nobody can read it. That it's okay.
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However, deals are end. You
know, we were so deal with
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chat. So we may have someone
coming up onto a chat and the problem
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we charted that you often have people
asking you question about the product the already
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guts and that's pretty trained to buy
stops for chat. All you know,
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you maysob a lot of time in
waist of but we chat, you need
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to be very quick because if I
want, if I'm doing a chat,
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and actually at an example in my
personal life, while was trying to deal
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with someone and the chat window open
for probably at five minutes and then what
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should do? You Open another window
and you carry on your day, you
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do something else and then when you
come back the chet is finished. So
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yeah, you've got to stop the
process again. So tell me a little
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bit more about the timing and and
what you see as best participt. I
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agree with you at there is a
wide wrench. We may be a tricky
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question, but we just develop a
little bit more or share with us a
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few wall stories about where you see
the timing being very important and and successful
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for your clients. Yeah, one
of the things we found timing is it's
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critical to map accounts, and so
what we learned is a lot of times
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when you're trying to sell someone or
build a relationship, we oftentimes we ask
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for too much. We start the
conversation with asking for their time, which
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is the most valuable thing to any
professional you're actually trying to get their business
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from, and so we ask for
a meeting with for fifty minute call about
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the time here intro calls, and
what I found is it's actually better to
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learn about their current situation. Do
they have an agency or not? Are
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you already using a sales platform?
Okay, when's that contract of are you
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the best person talk with? So
we actually focus on here at directed mapping
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accounts. That's our primary initial KPI, and by mapping accounts we can then
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building our sales force database. We
know when every account is up and we
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know then we can essentially give ourselves
development team. Okay, in six months
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this contracts up and eventually they have
thousands of accounts where they actually already know
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when the timings right, which makes
us incredibly successful that way. So it's
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kind of a great spellus be felt
that renew what. He's Jewish. We
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feel that some way is gonna run
you something in January two thousand and twenty
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and you know that you've got to
two months set of psych ors. You
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probably want to contact them, me
Doctorbo to say hey, do you remember
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the conversation we had? We appreciate
that you're doing. That makes sense.
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That phasement product right. You couldn't
remember if you're asking for an intro call
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and they can't even hire you.
You know what they do, right?
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That's the ninety seven percent of people
that don't respond. And so we do
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is less engage with the people that
aren't responding because they don't have any timing.
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It's not that the message isn't necessarily
relevant and they wouldn't hire us to
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set the timing so wrong that they
can't even worry about it right now.
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So instead we ask questions that are
not timing dependent to learn more about them
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and then we can get the timing
right and then not bug them. And
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it doesn't feel salesy because they're actually
genuinely thinking about a new organization, new
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software, New Agency to support them
at that time. And so when we
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reach out, we get to have
a lovely conversation, we get a meeting
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and then we get to help them
make a purchasing decision because we know the
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timings right. That's a really important
part. So he has something that you
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do short like a progressive profiling type
of approach. So I don't know.
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You've got, let's say you've got
funored of question to ask me, you
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know, in order to put me
in the right segment, in order to
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disposition me as a contact for your
organization. Does that mean that every single
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time you've got an interaction with me, you would ask me a defriend question?
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So as time goes by and and
while you may not be getting my
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time yet, but you may be
getting information that we help you to go
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further and further into with that guy
with what is he doing in the company
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and what does you really care about? That is that's what you guys do.
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We go more relational. So we'll
just try to learn about you,
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will find out what you like,
will probably send you a gift, will
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call you linkedin message, you will
email, you will show up in person.
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Will eventually figure out when. We
will figure out if very wants to
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hire an agency, if he doesn't, if he currently has one and if
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he does currently have one, when's
that contract up? We don't want to
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bug you, we just want to
let you know that we exist and we
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want to get the timing right so
that you can focus on what you do
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and that you know about us when
you focused on what we do. And
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yet, by aligning ourselves in that
way, it makes us less salesy and
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more helpful, and we just learned
about you. We build a relationship and
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we figure out when the timing is
right and then we don't bug you.
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We might shoot you a case study
every month, every two months, but
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we let you do your job and
we know as long as we reach out
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six days, ninety days before,
you're going to make the purchasing decision.
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Now you can start to have a
sales conversation before that. We have relational
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conversations, absolutely, and I think
it's the right way to do it.
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It's the right way to do it
because you want people, particularly your line
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of business is very similar to all
and of business. At operatics we sell
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services and unfortunately there is lots of
people in my domain, as there is
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a lot in your domain, that
make that make your the main look bad,
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and made the main look bad because
there is lots of people that will
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come with crazy business model, crazy
solutions and probably over sale, overpromising on
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the deliver which you then kind of
impact us because we speak to people who
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have had their finger bonds. Yeah, and now I gotta agree with you.
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Yeah, you know, I agree
with you. I mean I get
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actually even sometimes contacted by companies,
will direct competitors of us, and they
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ask me if any do services.
And I'm sure you've got the same and
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it's the same with, I think, recruitment and and all the other type
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of services that are little bit more
whether is lots of competition. And I
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think there is two things. Not
only you've got to respect the prospect,
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but you also need to add the
outset very, very quickly. Put in
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front of them what makes unique in
the market and what change, what difference
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you can create for them, and
and then those difference should be probably two
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US three little stones that they've got
in their shoe and as they're carrying on
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with the current supplier, get the
carry on with another are. Yeah,
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is we just studying the shoe or
the student they get off that actually did
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into do something about it now.
But but we do use this an approach,
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that a soft touch approach, of
respectful approach, because I think that
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a professional you are now, you
would treat the prospect, which ultimately is
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is quite important, I believe.
Yeah, I just you know, the
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Insula is that weird place right it
balancing volume so you can get the timing
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right more often, and then personal
where you where you're building relationships, and
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so you'll for us we segment and
we say, okay, each SDR has
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a hundred and ten accounts that we
know by name that we fully mapped and
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those are the accounts that are really
focused on. That if we get them
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now or if we get them in
five years, we still want them and
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it's worth it, and so we
invest a lot there and then we use
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other things to scale up our volume
for the rest of that market. So
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that, yeah, we always have
essentially our account based cell development model as
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well as kind of a vertical base
sales development model, and we kind of
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blended to help us it volume goals
as well as personal goals. That makes
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perfect sense. And we should the
set of development teams report to primarily from
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your perspectives, you think they should
report to marketing or do you thinkish with
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report to sells? Oh, I
think they need to report to sales,
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but I think they can report to
like with the way we rock operators.
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I have shared goals between marketing and
sales development and we do a lot of
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events. We do a lot of
like so we do two events a month
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in almost every major city. That
from our map to accounts based on like
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where the geography, and so we'll
do two events a month. And then
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what that does is it gives our
SDR team a way to decrease psychological friction
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because now they're giving the prospects something
to send, they're inviting them to something
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instead of asking them for something,
and so it changes the relationship of SDR
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and then marketing as the host event, and then they share essentially opportunities.
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So we have an opportunities, deals
and revenue goal for the entire Growth Department
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that marketing and sales development share.
Right I found sales development struggles with messaging,
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marketing struggles sometimes with quotas and Kpis, and so we kind of blend
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the to but with their idea of
a director of sales development and I do
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have the director of marketing and then
I have a separate account executive team which
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you're just kind of senior guys that
operate a little bit on their own,
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but all three exist within a growth
department which I still head up, and
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so I'm kind of like tef revenue
officer in that sense, and then I
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have a director of marketing, a
senior account executive, a client facing account
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executive, and then, you know, a director of sales development, and
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then those people essentially reported to me. They're all sharing the same numbers actually,
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of course. Yet and that's make
of that. What do you think
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is the you mentioned? There is
a there is a requirement fun agreement between
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starters, marketing and set of development. So at that Magic I plan generation
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triangle, what are the key Kpis
that you would recommend to Alligence to look
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at? And then she's a question
that to ask could nuts in that podcast,
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because so important. Amos, on
that Trinity. What you should look
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at quite a tea velsus quanty tete
is. It's sort of as a big,
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a big question, but he is
there anything in Poltic Cadat? Shoot,
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you look at in them a flignments
and KPIS. Yeah, so I
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track counts mapped because, remember,
I really want to build my data set
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and no one contracts are up,
because then I can crack the timing code
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and it makes it so much easier
to sell. So it counts. MAPPS
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is a really important API to me. INTRO calls. So essentially can like
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not conversations, but like essentially initial
meetings. Then proposals or demos, so
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opportunities. So we call anything where
proposals given, we call it an opportunity.
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And then deals and revenue and that's
it. I tried to actually I
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let my director sales development track a
lot of other things like conversation length and
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dials and emails. What I've realized
is if you create two strict of a
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recipe for sales development rep every sales
development repped has inner personal and things that
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make them unique as a person,
as a human, and a lot of
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times set input numbers like two hundred
dolls or fifty dollars or two hundred emails
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with her. It doesn't allow one
person where a woman might be phenomenal on
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Linkedin and she can just hit her
numbers every time doing just linked in.
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Another guy's terrible and like did,
but he's world class on the phone.
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Another guy's terrible in the phone but
he's amazing and writing copy. And what
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I found is if I try to
make all three of them the same Sdr
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I get lower performance. So so
I really worry a lot more about my
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output management that I do on my
input management, and so I give people
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a lot of freedom to hit their
accounts mapped in Tro call and opportunity goals
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on the sales development side more than
heading their call goals or their email goals.
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And if they're not calling emailing and
they're not hitting their numbers, then
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you can kind of do a performance
review or let them go. You have
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to give them the freedom to figure
out if they're better on the phones,
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are better on the email or better
on social and then just hit their opportunity
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deals a revenue goal from there.
Of course, of course not. That's
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makes perfect sense. I'm going to
move on. Anyt bit from from Das
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d btls there as develop mentioned general
or, and I know that You'all strong
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believing the concept and why you need
to focus your attention on your brand and
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and not only on your search results. Can you please allaborates on that,
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fall audiince? Yeah, so you
work with a lot of software companies,
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right? HM, yes, we
do. You most most of all come
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sectually. Probably Eighty five percent of
Faulk Lens also Talk Company. So yes,
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we do pretty much the same.
With myself, I'd say I'm about
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you know, seventy five percent SASS. And what I found is like,
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if you go on Google right now
and you search top ARP software orcle Microsoft
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Dynamics and whoeversults in that space,
they don't rank. And that's not because
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Oracle and Microsoft have terrible websites and
terrible brands and no pages and no SEO.
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It's because Google has decided that at
the bottom of the funnel, when
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people are looking for a purchasing type
decision, they're doing comparison shopping. People
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want to look at review sites.
That's get crowd software advice Cap Tera.
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These are sites a you might scrape
a or you might be doing for list
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building. These are on by Gardner, forester and other players in the space.
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I point is that calls the yelp
in the Amazon effect. If we
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look at yelped before we buy a
five dollar breakfast Burrito, we sure as
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hecker going to look at software advice
before we buy a quarter million dollar software.
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And so it doesn't matter if your
website shows up or your brand shows
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up. The point is that you're
discoverable. And so what we help these
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organizations learn and we measure and we
manage for them is how often their brands
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are showing up when people are searching, because if you're only measuring if your
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website shows up but Google saying your
website isn't going to show up because that's
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not what our searcher wants, then
you're trying to do something that isn't actually
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feasible. So if you're telling that
your client, obviously the client's going to
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fire you because you didn't do what
you said you would. It's nothing to
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do with your ability as everything to
do with your reality. And so we
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look at the reality of a search
engine, the reality of a buying journey,
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and then we position our clients to
be discovered at every point of that,
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whether there's informational intent or purchase intent, and then we essentially measure that
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reality funds and time and effort so
that our clients drastically increased pipeline and then
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grow opportunities, deals and revenue.
And we've been hyper effective with brands like
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Zumo, logic and sure well,
we're just started working with Betterman. We
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do everything for all state and Cisco
and Samsung and ten cent and, you
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know, count with Sass companies in
the mid markets and enterprise space by helping
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them essentially be discoverable and from their
grow exceptionally. I mean you're in the
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sales space. We worked with exactly
for over two years. When we first
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start with them, we grew their
pipeline by over three hundred percent in the
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first quarter by just helping them get
on review sites and be more discoverable and
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show up when it mattered, and
they're hyper successful. It really does work
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and that makes perfect sensition. I
mean this is I'm moving into a new
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house now and my wife, he's
asking me to buy you a new I
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was looking for wine fridge. They
thought that sounds very, very cliche for
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a Frenchman, but that you go
and I had no idea what a good
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dwine f Jays and I need exactly
what you mentioned. I mean you took
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the example of Arom Barrito, which
our slight, but I went on comparison
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websites and basically both the frange that
I think was pleasing most of the people
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that like the central to as I
do. Right, exactly, go to
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their website. Right. You just
wanted to review site, you learned about
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and then you went to their website. Yeah, yeah, we marketing in
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growth. People want people to first
go to their website. That's not actually
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how a purchasing journey works. And
so but the problem is is because they
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can't track how well they're doing another
site, they don't value it because they
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have to report on metrics and because
they become so Kypi obsessed and so obsessed
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on the metrics that they can report
on, they don't value the things that
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are actually going to grow the most
important metrics, like opportunities, deals and
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revenue. And so we try to
help educate people and we help them measure
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in track it using sequel databases and
our kind of engineering team to actually show,
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look, we can actually track those
third party sites, show the value
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and allow you to be a much
better demand generation or search marketer and drive
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opportunities, deals and revenue for your
SASS company. Of course, then I'm
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interesting to us. You want to
last question. I that's a wrong marketing
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attribution. We've got to large pot
of all audience. While marketing professionally in
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software companies, all you know be
to be I lovel savvycs type of companies
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and we often speak to them about
marketing attribution and bots running when you do
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a lot of online stuff, a
PR and all that sort of great things.
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But how can you truckt your investments
in brand do the thing and attributed
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back to marketing after a convulsion into
a posts our revenue? You can do
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it in certain areas, like with
you through conversions. So by setting up
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the script properly, interest you can
see you through. But here's what I
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would argue a we need to just
take a deep breath and use comments and
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sometimes, and the problem is really
attributed yet that well, but because we're
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so desperate to attribute everything, we
forget about the value of brand. And
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what I mean by that is we
want to be the largest company, but
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we don't ever think about being the
most wellknown company. You know, it's
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crazy. Right in two thousand and
nineteen we forgot about all the basics of
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advertising and marketing that have worked so
well. The reason why Super Bowl commercials
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are still a thing, the reason
why there we all purchased from brands we
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recognize. Imagine how much more successful
in effective sales development is when you call
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people and when you say who you
are, they've heard of you before like
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that is a huge factor. Then
close rate and a acquisition of new business.
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Yet because we can't say, oh, which added they see before they
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saw it. We stopped investing in
brand building because we can't measure it perfectly
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to the deal, and we then
invest in higher acquisition channels like Seo and
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PPC, which I also a hundred
percent believe in, but then we d
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value brand. Right now, my
business is getting twenty million impressions for four
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thousand dollars a month and we've had
enterprise brands that we dreamed about fill out
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our form since launching the campaigns who
didn't fill out our form before because they've
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heard of us now. And not
only have they heard of us, when
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they search for SEO agency, when
they search for PBC agency, they find
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us and now, instead of being
the brand they haven't heard of, now
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are the brand they've seen, they've
heard of and has great reviews and now
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we're able to work with them.
They have our positioning right, we have
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our awareness and it equals revenue generation. The other way, they can track
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at the rate, because I don't
want it to be like you can't track
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it at all. You can use
the view through conversions and you can look
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at your direct traffic to your brand. So you can go look at direct
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traffic in Google and see if that's
growing ak more people just knowing about you.
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You can look at a tool like
sem rush or a trefs and then
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search your brand name and see how
many people are searching that a month and
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then you can measure if that goes
up or down. There's a lot of
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ways to do it and I'm actually
building a software that will be launching sometime
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next six months that measures your brand
discoverability across versus you and your top two
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competitors. So you can put in
a thousand keywords and see how often your
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brand shows up, not just your
website. So if you show up on
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somebody else's site, if you show
up an ads, if you show up
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on a review side, if you
show up in the map, if you
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show open shopping campaigns, will be
able to measure all of that in the
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benchmarkt against your competition and every month
you'll see if you're becoming more or less
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discoverable. And I do believe that
the future search marketing is making brands discoverable
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for keywords that people are looking for, and it's going to be a crucial
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part that is not being valued nearly
enough today, and I agree with you
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00:21:56.680 --> 00:22:02.029
absolutely. Under percent what unfortunately we
coming to the end of foure. Shame
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because I probably can't think about another
twenty question I can ask you, but
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you know we need to keep them
a shell. If that's you can that
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00:22:07.950 --> 00:22:11.750
we we're just coming out of the
attention spam or all the the sell seeming
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its commute. Love all the right
Jodan's, but I want you to thank
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00:22:15.220 --> 00:22:18.099
you for your insight today. Get
Right. I really appreciate the defided you
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00:22:18.140 --> 00:22:23.099
to your time to get to get
always me and and share all your swords
349
00:22:23.180 --> 00:22:26.859
and onto all the question that I
get to ask you. If anyone wants
350
00:22:26.859 --> 00:22:32.250
to get in touch with you to
follow up speak about directive, just as
351
00:22:32.289 --> 00:22:34.329
your question about which we discussed today. What's the best way to get hold
352
00:22:34.329 --> 00:22:38.930
of you? Yeah, you just
go to directive consultingcom and you know we
353
00:22:38.970 --> 00:22:41.849
have life chat. We have a
form there. You can also email us
354
00:22:41.970 --> 00:22:47.759
for new business at sales at directive
consultingcom. Do you just want to chat,
355
00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:51.200
feel free to connect from on Linkedin
or twitter. It's G and then
356
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:53.599
my last named Marygoot across all those
platforms. Garrett, Mary, you you'll
357
00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:56.920
find me. I'm the only one
in the world so love the chat with
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00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:59.950
you. Love to connect answer any
questions you have if you're trying to think
359
00:22:59.950 --> 00:23:03.109
about how to grow your lead volume
or give your sales development team better leads,
360
00:23:03.349 --> 00:23:07.430
Potter leads, warmer leads and just
grow over overall pipeline at assass company
361
00:23:07.470 --> 00:23:11.950
or in an enterprise brand. We
would love to support you and the love
362
00:23:11.990 --> 00:23:14.619
the chat and see if it's a
fit. Sounds Great. Well, many
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00:23:14.700 --> 00:23:17.339
things. Once again, eat.
was great to have you unders with today.
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00:23:17.339 --> 00:23:21.940
Guard all right, thank you so
much. Right, operatics has redefined
365
00:23:22.099 --> 00:23:27.210
the meaning of revenue generation for technology
companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of
366
00:23:27.329 --> 00:23:33.690
building and managing inside sales teams inhouse
has existed for many years, companies are
367
00:23:33.769 --> 00:23:37.970
struggling with a lack of focus,
agility and scale required in today's fast and
368
00:23:38.170 --> 00:23:45.720
complex world of enterprise technology sales.
See How operatics can help your company accelerate
369
00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:51.480
pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been
listening to be to be revenue acceleration.
370
00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:55.480
To ensure that you never miss an
episode, subscribe to the show in your
371
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favorite podcast player. Thank you so
much for listening. Until next time,
