Episode Transcript
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You're listening to be tob revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping software executive
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stay on the cutting edge of sales
and marketing in their industry. Let's get
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into the show. Welcome to be
to be revenue acceleration. My name is
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Dan Seebrook and I'm here today with
David Davis, author and chief sales transformation
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officer at summer training. David,
how are you today? Yeah, I'm
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good, Dan. Thanks for having
me. Good, excellent. Thanks for
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coming in. So I'll topic for
today is making channel sales work. Before
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we get into the conversation, David, could you please introduce, introduce yourself
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to the audience and tell us more
about yourself, as well as the company,
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Sunder Training, of course. Well, my name to day, they've
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Davies. Yeah, I'm always Dave
and unless you're my mom or I've been
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nautation was David. Been in sales
since one thousand nine hundred and eighty six.
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So can we up to say five
years, typically working in technology and
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quite often in really in management and
leadership of technology sales teams. But instyles
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are now for as a trainer for
six years and again, as you expect,
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I work with technology businesses, whether
that's in start up or what I
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call spark up mode. The other
been around for a while. It's gotten
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from midsdale and they need a spark
or a scale up where they're phenomenally could
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at what they do. They haven't
solved ever, have no idea where to
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start. We write the making channel
sales, but making channel sales work work
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a couple of years ago. I
was released last year, so she'd expect.
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Often the companies I'm working with now
either have a channel that for whatever
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reasons become somewhat dysfunctional. They've found
they've got thousands of channel partners and two
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or three that are actually selling their
stuff or their channel curious and they've gone
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out and they've had some experience of
direct selling and they believe that they've got
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a great proposition and but have no
idea how to start building a channel,
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I. How to bring channel partners
into their world. Okay, excellent.
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Interesting and today you mentioned that you
published a book last year called making champ
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sales work, where you outline of
ten tools to create an effective first party
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selling program so you share us a
bit, share a bit more about that
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book. What people can learn from
it, what they'd take from it,
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but also the sort of motivation,
I guess, as to led you to
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write books. I must, I
must amit. It must take a lot
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of work to do so. Yeah, it's I was very good. I
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had a very good teacher taught me
how to write right, good content weekly
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without worrying about editing it, because
that's what they did to supposed I'll tell
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you. I wrote the book first. So we wanted to write a sales
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both my partner and in writing,
the scy called Markers couchy. We wanted
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to write a sales book. We
looked our bookshells and thought there's a thousand
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and one direct sales books on our
shelves. Everybody's got some take on on
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some direct as. We thought,
what else? What are the types of
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sales? We write it now and
we signed to talk about my career having
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built some channels in the businesses that
have worked in. We thought, I
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Casa, must be loads of books
on this subject. We found I two
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are any good. The other seven
books simply are direct sales books. But
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where the word sales is they've put
channel sales in front against it. Same
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direct sales clas and just trying to
force employ into channel world. In the
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channel world is completely different. So
okay, so we sort of we found
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this niche that we were going to
write into and you know, generally speaking,
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I was pronounced as the the expert
in channel having built one. And
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then we spent a year interviewing hundreds
of channel leaders, channel managers, channel
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people. Elise, we didn't know
actually that much about it, and that's
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how we started to form them.
Okay, we need quite a lot about
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Yo, how we did it,
but we didn't know so much about how
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it was being done and what the
structured process to channel debourance. We learn
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quite quickly that there's not a lot
again of training content as designed and delivered
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to this book readers of text book, which one of the things I love
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about it's actually working system in the
book starts with that, that selection process,
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your courtship. What does a perfect
partner look like? Before going out
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and looking for that perfect partner,
we actually to take a look in the
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mirror and ask yourself if you've got
the attributes of a great partner you ready,
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Jane, all the things in place
that make you ready to go into
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partnership with another persons they shit what
a perfect partnership looks like. You're what
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are the attributes of good partners for
you and your business and what industries?
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So they focus on what does their
client base look like? Does it resonate
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with your idea of what your ideal
client looks like? So you've have in
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partnerships that have your wind for the
client, that win for the partner and
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the wind for Your Business. We
go to take that step further. We
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really help them to design good a
channel managers. You. We did our
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interviews. What we found quite quickly
was that a lot of people in the
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channel, everybody, but a lot
of people in the channel tended to be
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failed direct sales people. Okay,
fairly nice people, but we're not top
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performance in the direct sales well,
yes, but LD by the organization.
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So they were kept and put into
more of a partnering, the Assumption there
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being that, you know, it's
just a conversation between two people too.
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Nice people have nice conversations. It's
a bit more so than that to be
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truly effective a channel management. And
you really weren't for hats any given time,
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and so you need phenomenal expertise as
a direct salesperson biggest criticism most ben
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as have of their channel is they
won't let's talk to the end user.
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I would let you talk to mine
users if I didn't trust you and believe
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you were are a successful professional salesperson. The other operates the way I do.
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Yeah, yeah, any great management
skills and they also need to understand
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that they are in the management but
they have no power over the individuals they're
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managing. So your partners that you're
managing in reality of managing a sales relationship
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with you have no decisionmaking power over
when you can hire them, fire them.
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Little effort in on boarding you had. Don't control their rewards, their
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recognition, share their accountability. So
you have to learn to manage that power.
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The currency of that is influenced.
How do you influence other people to
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trust, like believe that you're doing
a great job on their behalf or partnership
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with your good analytic skills, good
research skills? It's it's a much bigger
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subject and interesting and in terms of
that book you mentioned it, it's written
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as a textbook. So what's the
audience for that? Is that a ceeover
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company looking to really understand and develop
the channel for their first time is it?
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Is it a channel director that's actually
looking to implement a new methodology or
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bring some new ideas to the day? Well, what's what's a general to
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the audience? It's makes I tell
you. I tell the audience. Re
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wrote it for, and I guess
this is most of my experiences, is
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growing very small businesses in excessful,
not really multinational. Yeah, so I
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was writing it from that guy that
just started a technology business and thought,
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yeah, maybe alongside my direct sales
efforts, I can stub to build a
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channel. got a great proposition for
the channel partner's it. So it's written
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for for what we call the channel
curious, those that might not yet have
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developed a channel and we're looking for
steps to take to building out an effective
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channel path of their business. But
will you launch a book, Publish Your
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Book? The audience changes really quickly. So I've got people in some of
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the largest technology organizations and planet sending
me Fink back and asking me questions on
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how this stuff works. And they've
already got what they would considered to be
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a well defined channel business. It's
just not functioning the way they hope to
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word. Yeah, and they're deploying
this system in their business again to to
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really spark up their channel business and
understand more about what the responsibility on them
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as a vendor is when working with
their partners. They becomes a true partnership,
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not what many, many of the
vendors when we talk to the resellers.
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It's not a partnership, it's a
dictatorship that being told what to do
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by an overbearing vendor or an overbearing
representative the using the systems or men we're
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already doing and improve how they were
the partners. Okay, interesting and and
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through the writing of that book and
interview that you've done to lead to book
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being developed, I guess you must
have seen a lot of companies being extremely
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successful in the Jenneral some less successful. You outline some of the elements you
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believe are needed or necessary to lead
to a successful channel program on the flip
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side of that, what would you
suggest would be some of the challenges or
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the me perhaps the number one challenge
you see companies face when they're trying to
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build a channel? Number one challenge
they face from the build and they go
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out to try and build a channel
as they believe. Why? I think
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comm you three but absolutely, absolutely
go for it? Yeah, no one.
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Number one problem theyve got is are
not ready. Yeah, you're one
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of the single biggest values you bring
to partnership is your ability to train them
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as if they were one of your
own. Because they aren't want that you
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write a little point bring them into
a partnership and then treating them like a
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competitor. So having a strong on
boarding system for your partners. That's normally
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missing even in some of the bigger
tech companies you have don't know how to
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bring the partner on board and get
them to the bank. Within big debate
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about this. I think you've got
ninety days to get a new partner to
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the bank and cutting an invoice selling
your products before that influence ways and their
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interest ways and they're starting to a
flow with other venge that might get them
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there quicker. Yeah, so that's
one of them. Secondly, we've covered
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down boarding peace. They don't.
They don't bring the right people in to
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manage to channel into the little bit
to Nice but really f really nice people
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that come in there. YEA The
powerful welcomes and coming in because actually they're
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more like furniture than they are causing
any kind of disruption. You only positive
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way, as in getting the people
motivated to sell their stuff. So that's,
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you know, finding the right partner's
finding the right people and lust been
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not least. I mean especially in
the established ones. The approach is wrong.
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It's off the ringing partners once a
month or even worse, one in
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particular I work with was sending and
next cell spreadsheet once a month what we
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called the list of demands. You're
in partnership without his here. Yeah,
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what have you got for us this
month? That bringing up and saying what's
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what have you sold on our behalf
this month? But the right to do
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it if the expectation isn't, say, you're not investing time in that partnership
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weekly, daily, to find ways
to augment and improve. Of Yeah,
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this is really horrendous. One once
a month. What have you got from
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me? Approach to partner develop?
Well, Partner Account Management. We spoke
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earlier about my my theory that if
you take the change the word partner account
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management to partner development. Yeah,
that's simple. Simple changes syntax. Changes
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that the mindset the individual. They
realize their job is to develop their partners,
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not to run up and asks demand
from the business. Yeah, absolutely,
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and just on the the note you
mentioned are around the has bit of
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debate around how long you have to
get the partner to revenue before maybe their
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interest Wednesday going to start looking elsewhere
in order to help them to get to
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revenue. What do you think the
most important sort of element or process you
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can put in place to support them
to do that is that? Is that,
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from a marketing perspective, feeling them
with the D or opportunities is it?
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Does that come back to the on
boarding where it's actually just about enabling
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them as as best as possible?
What's your thoughts on the best tactic or
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strategy to get them to revenue at
the first night? He days teaching to
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feed themselves and I see no issue, when you're building a partnership, with
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giving them lead. That doesn't really
help them in the long run. Sure
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we all know what and sales for
quite a long time that marketing are often
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blessed with the the misguided criticism of
yeah, these leads are not great,
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yeah, or any other word that
people like changement not great. With giving
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end leads is it might be a
start. Actually, the reason you've gone
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into partnership is because they're already working
with the type of people you want to
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work so you need to train them, train their account development teams. It
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probably called account management. Just to
hope this coulture your account development teams on
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the how to, how to convey
your proposition and get their existing clients interested
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in what it is that you do
know if this if they're just coming out
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the cakes and you've got to invest
time in teaching them how to prospect effectively
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and what's the ideal client profile look
like? Help them to build some obsession
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lists. Who are the people we
committed together to going and doing business with?
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What's our approach? How we're going
to get time in their diary and
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we get time and it done.
What we're going to do together that turns
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them into a brilliant client for both
of us. And so getting those either
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thirty second adverse or one hundred and
twenty second adverse, because a couple of
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minutes to go your message. I'm
all working together on building that value proposition.
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What is it? What what does
it do? HAS IT benefit you?
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How do you measure the benefit so
that they know that that partner's team
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really comfortable in going out and generating
new business? Of optunity for you here's
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my standing rules of channel, channel
or partner Development Manager. You must stand
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in there, for stand on their
floor and make calls with them. Yeah,
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going there and tell them the theory
how to do it, because you
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can't prospect yourself. Don't go and
tell anybody else to do yeah, I
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agree. I agree. Show them. We see we see it all the
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time and some of our clients actually
and they come in and sit with our
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team and and absolutely shocked, to
be quite honest, when actually our team
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will don't reach every single prospect that
they may pick up the phone too and
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actually you may make fifty calls or
send fifty emails and not here back.
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So it's at thecation. Should never
be a strategy in develop channel. Absolutely
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expecting them. This is a troublesome
people decide to go into Chang to build
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a channel because they can't work out
how to sell it themselves. It's not
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going to work. Yeah, absolutely. And then you're going to rely on
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partners that actually maybe aren't enabled because
you have enabled yourselves to do so.
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A frustration plus frustration leads very quickly
to angle. Sure, so you're frustrated,
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you can't do you're frustrate. They
can't there. Yeah, get these
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angry interactions between the vendor and the
channel. Your love our partners are any
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good. That's your responsibility to get
them good. Not There as they've got
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an audience for you. If you
can't train how to convey that message,
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simply you screwed and just let yourself
in the mirror. If you partner,
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if you're partners your channels not working, have a look in the mirror and
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ask yourself a question. Who Sport
is it? And the answer should always
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be one hundred percent. Of course, absolutely interesting. So you mentioned a
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few minutes ago that you've heard back
from some mixtremely large technology companies and every
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in asking you about your book,
and I'll sing your opinion on an element
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to your book. And you mentioned
there's other vendors that are emerging. There
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sort of perhaps of that channel curious
stage and clearly the difference between a large
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technology company and emerging companies. That
or any business doesn't have to be technology,
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but for the purpose of this conversation, they're going to have different challenges
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when building their channel. Right if
you to, it's obviously difficult to say
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precisely what those challenge just would look
like. There's some of the common themes
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that you see between trying to help
a channel curious business build their channel and
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actually either help build or ignite the
channel for a large company. What there's
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some of the key differences that you
see. The benefit of picking up a
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good vendor that's already got some emerging
traction in the market and developed some clients
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is, let's work on the assumption. Typically Tet businesses aside by experts.
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Yeah, quite often they've never sold
before. They come from technology and never
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solved before. Why love about some
BS never sold before us? When I
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teach in my system technology, people
tend to be systematic in their approach to
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what they do anyway. Yeah,
and you layers selling system on them versus
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some cheap tactics and they just follow
the system and the system works. So
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so that's one of my favorite things
today. You so soon. Then again,
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so as we start to build out
a channel, never done it,
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no idea what to do, and
Soho, we do it and on the
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book and so so, in that
sense we follow the book and we follow
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a process. It's a wonderful blank
sheet that we get to work from.
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We get very sharp about building I
call the Special Forces unit approach. Quite
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often, when organization starts to build
a channel, they try to build this
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land army, trying to get their
logo on as many different doors across the
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the the the MSP network as they
can and get logos and product pictures on
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people's website. Yeah, and just
these feels to me like it's great unspoken
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marketing exercise on half of the vendors. The more people that talk about and
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stuff, more likely we are to
yourself. I truly really when you're building
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a channel as your partners shooting hit
in the same way you build a special
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forces. You've net special forces.
You intend to be a collection of very
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specially designated individuals, each with their
own specialist skill base. Yeah, each
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and trained to very, very high
standard, hand picked often from a collection
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of people are available to and has
the best in their field. You put
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that group together and they work as
a team, work off each other.
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Special Forces. You approach to channel
with finding really really works. Okay,
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figure organizations are working, but now
or at deploying my scare system there is
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where you look at your partner network
of thousands. You've got some of you
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want to keep and they they're going
to set the world right or they'll self
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you once or twice a year.
You know that and don't need a lot
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of time invested in them. Maybe
a bit of nurturing. You've got an
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acquisition lest you're the partners that you
really wish were on your list. The
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ad should be no more than twenty
five companies, by the way, of
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any size of company. Okay,
you get psessed over a small list of
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prospects. would be much more effective
in your prospecting approach. Yea to just
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draw and as resurrect. So they
may have been a partner of yours for
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a while. They probably were successful, when the way you want them back
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and expand is that development group.
Probably the top twenty percent of your partners
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that are performing. You know,
it doesn't matter how well they're performing.
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You can do more to help them
get more. Now the YES, most
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people don't like the scare system has
an asset start on its sack. You
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must, must look at the greenfield
partner development slightly different because you hand thinking.
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But sure, if you've been in
this game for a while, eighty
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percent of your partner community probably isn't
performing. Yeah, and at least the
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bottom twenty percent should be. Let
go, yeah, in as polite a
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manner as you can and tell them
it's your fault, by the way,
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because you haven't built a good system
that's enabled it to grow their business and
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must come away from you. And
as you bring those partners away, it's
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in any case of replacing them with
some of those handpicked partners that you've identified
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on that that list of twenty five. The answer that questions maybe, because
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it may be treat that you have
built this land army and you've got hundreds
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of partners. Yeah, and you
don't need hundreds of partners, you need
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twenty specialists. Yeah, you want
to find it, a twenty specialists have
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already pretty and your pre pre registered
themselves as a specialist in public sector,
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for or especialist in the NHS,
or a specialist in banking and finance or
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a specialist in manufacturing. So you
think about those twenty partners are very clear
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audience that they work with, age
partner network, and I personally I'd rather
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have take the now approach of two
in each category, and I'm very small,
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very tight partner network that I can
invest, almost obsess over my investments
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in growing their business and then having
hundreds. I rarely speak to, rarely
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touched, don't do a lot for
how you got a weather do on next
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week? Clock on? Yeah,
absolutely. Well, I think we see
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that happened right across the technology spectrum. So will make sense to me.
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And in terms of that sort of
goes on to the next question, which
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it around. We spoken about what's
needed or what's necessary to help vendors build
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a good partner community in and build
a strong channel. You've obviously been in
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the in the industry a long time
and must have helped a lot of organizations
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build up successful channel programs in the
UK and Europe. What are some of
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the key points that the organization should
be looking at as they're looking to build
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a successful channel program both in the
UK but also then as you s got
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into new regions that, of course
you have the cultural differences, you have
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language differences, you have different ways
of selling and everything like that. What
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are some of the key point to
the organization should be looking helpful? Well,
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I think some of what you just
just isolated some of the first thing
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should be looking out for is the
that work work here, excuse to work
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the world's largest sales of Leadership Training
Organization and they our system is deployed in
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twenty two languages across two hundred and
twenty locations, quite a lot of from
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in the US, quite a lot
in the UK and quite a lot of
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the more in Europe, and that
bring the local language, but the system
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of human interacts and doesn't change that
much. Yeah, so you've definitely got
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to appreciate the culture. That I
mean you don't don't send the wrong person
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into the territory because it will be
scorched UF by the time you have to
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rescue them, as in pull them
back in out again. Yeah, something
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conscious of the type of that.
Well, they must understand their locally thetry
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and the style of the type of
people you the way they behave and communicate.
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In that sense, watch for the
excuses. This won't work here,
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that won't work here, that isn't
done that way, because some of that
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is just yeah, absolutely. And
is that something that you've seen in the
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past? A lot of where organizations
have maybe got a successful channel program it
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in say, North America. It's
it's developed well, is successful, partners
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are selling, but actually they're try
to apply almost exactly the same model in
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Europe and it's just not working.
You've had to start again. There are
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subtleties as you try to travel having
built businesses on on all five continents,
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not the two Poles. Yet going
to come yeah, the land comes back
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00:21:26.740 --> 00:21:30.700
again. There is the sense of
what work there doesn't always work here,
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and so you have got to be
aware of what's happending in the market and
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00:21:36.089 --> 00:21:38.450
you have got, I think,
to bring in or buying expertise. Even
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if there are a third party today, before you go into the territory,
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understand what's happening in that space,
not the excuses, but the truce was
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happening in their space, with the
market look like, what's growing, what's
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00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:55.079
declining? At your really getting some
comp full understanding. Like you said,
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if you come in there's somebody who's
trying to build a land army and then
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00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:02.230
certainly your land up be land stomping
all over their grounds, you're going to
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get resistance. They're going to fight
you back. Nobody wants a US company
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storming into the mirror with their one
size fits the world approach. Yeah,
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00:22:11.789 --> 00:22:15.819
and equally, you know British spit
distances struggle sometimes to go to the US
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00:22:15.900 --> 00:22:18.579
and get themselves started or light side
or we've seen some traction in Germany.
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00:22:18.579 --> 00:22:22.859
Let's just go to Germany do the
same thing we did. Went through.
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You wouldn't go for two weeks on
holiday certain parts of Europe. You might
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00:22:26.740 --> 00:22:30.210
get away with it, but you
wouldn't go on a cultural holiday and not
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00:22:30.329 --> 00:22:33.490
embrace some of the local language.
Sure you know, just to keep yourself
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00:22:33.529 --> 00:22:37.210
around and fed on anything else or
ticular lines. Work out how you have
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00:22:37.369 --> 00:22:40.289
to an order a beer first,
then food. They don't have an everything
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00:22:41.130 --> 00:22:44.880
priorities. Wouldn't do this. You
do have. You do have to work
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00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:47.400
it through again. If you're going
to go and build a partner network in
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00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:52.960
Europe and start with one ideal partner, really invest your time in them.
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00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:56.240
Don't give him exclusivity that that costs
a lot more money than most people charge
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00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:00.349
for exclusivity. Pig One that you
think is that ideal partner, and work
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00:23:00.470 --> 00:23:04.349
with them for a year before opening
it up. You have to be clear
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00:23:04.390 --> 00:23:08.190
with the UPFRONTS at the expectation.
We want to give you prime in this
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00:23:08.390 --> 00:23:11.940
territory. Sure, and we're going
to bring a lot of stuff to help
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00:23:11.980 --> 00:23:15.460
you. Great. We want you
to help us to translate it into your
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00:23:15.500 --> 00:23:21.579
local market. Okay, interesting well, they've really appreciate you all your insights.
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00:23:21.700 --> 00:23:25.660
It's pleasure. It's been an interesting
conversation and New Perspective for me,
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00:23:25.779 --> 00:23:30.250
certainly on certain certain elements of channel
development and the different size of organizations.
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00:23:30.529 --> 00:23:34.410
Just about reaching the end of our
conversation here. So if anyone wanted to
347
00:23:34.809 --> 00:23:38.089
get in touch with yourself or some
one the training, no more about it,
348
00:23:38.170 --> 00:23:41.599
continue the conversation offline. How would
they suggest to do both of that?
349
00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:45.480
Get in touch with yourself, but
also sounda training. Well, wherever
350
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:47.839
you are in the world there's a
sound of trainer. I can introduce you
351
00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:52.880
too quickly. Cool. Introduce you
to to the person locally, but I'm
352
00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:56.109
getting hold of me. Easiest way
to find me is on Linkedin. I'm
353
00:23:56.109 --> 00:24:00.710
David W DAVIES OR DAVID DAVIES MAKING
channel sales work. If you're going to
354
00:24:00.750 --> 00:24:03.109
go search one type David Davis in, I should be the first one that
355
00:24:03.190 --> 00:24:07.470
comes up. or The or the
English MP is one. You can come
356
00:24:07.509 --> 00:24:11.900
me on my mobile, which is
plus forty four, travel seven, three,
357
00:24:11.940 --> 00:24:14.779
three, nine, seven eight,
ones up. Zero. Yeah,
358
00:24:14.819 --> 00:24:17.859
encourage my steps. Follow me on
linked in. Its uses way to find
359
00:24:17.900 --> 00:24:21.180
me and get hold me. Excellent, great well, appreciate that, Dave.
360
00:24:21.299 --> 00:24:22.539
Once again, it's been great,
I mean on the show. Laugh.
361
00:24:22.619 --> 00:24:27.730
Thanks having me, Dad. Much
appreciate it. operatics has redefined the
362
00:24:27.849 --> 00:24:34.250
meaning of revenue generation for technology companies
worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building
363
00:24:34.289 --> 00:24:40.839
and managing inside sales teams inhouse has
existed for many years, companies are struggling
364
00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:45.240
with a lack of focus, agility
and scale required in today's fast and complex
365
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:52.910
world of enterprise technology sales. See
How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline
366
00:24:52.950 --> 00:24:59.230
at operatics dotnet. You've been listening
to be tob revenue acceleration. To ensure
367
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that you never miss an episode,
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