Episode Transcript
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You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay
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on the cutting edge of sales and
marketing in their industry. Let's get into
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the show. Welcome to be to
be a revenue acceleration. My name is
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all on, in with you and
I'm here today with Martina, looking co
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operating partner, a Gusta. No
aven shows. Are You doing today,
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Martina? I am fantastic. Thank
you very much for coming today. So
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the topic is how to market and
only stage startup, which is a Whi.
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Is a great topic for us to
discuss. That's probably representing your own
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thirty percent of our business. I'm
very excited to get to get your views,
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opinion stories on what you've been missing, your experience. But before we
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go into that conversation, Martina,
could you please introduce yourself to audience and
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tell us more about your company,
Cousta? No event shows. So I'm
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an operating partner at Coustino Adventures.
We focus on early stage, the seed
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in series a, investing largely in
bed be Sass but in categories like data
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and cyber security and prastructure and vertical
staff applications like computer vision, cameras for
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aqule farming. So really interesting ways
of rethinking how business gets done right.
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That's wide range of companies that you
are helping. That's why that's very interas
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is a really wide rate. Hit
me a keeps me on my toes.
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It's very intellectually challenging, but it
also gives me a really broad lens for
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which to understand at the early stage, with so much diversity in our portfolio,
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what really separates those that are accelerating
and and getting to market better and
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faster from those that I would say
are more, say, traditional and and
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not quite accelerating it as quickly,
for it's the title of your podcast.
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The case is it. Would you
say that the must descryptival or the most
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destructiva company is, the better it
is to get to markets? Now,
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I would say that single most important
thing right now is to have an intersection
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of thoughtful ways of disrupting an industry, not necessarily the most disruptive technology,
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it's the most thoughtful approach that can
feel differentiated, and then to really go
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to market in a differentiated way.
That is different if you have a highly
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vertical market. So we have a
company that basically it is around tracking like
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how things change in Earth Movement areas. So if you're a mind, if
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you are building out an enormous site
and it's to move trucks and trucks of
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dirt, so that is considered.
The construction industry is an example. Is
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One that is been underutilizing technology because
they kind of have their ways of doing
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things and so they said like,
okay, for this particular market, here's
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how to write as a technology.
They actually went from something that would extremely
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this shopt and use drones to something
that was just basically gps that you can
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stop on a truck, and that's
way easier for that industry to adopt and
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they've been very successful because they've leaned
into how that industry work. So it's
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not about being the most disruptive,
it's understanding that industry, what its needs
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are and then finding clever ways to
apply that technology. As a flip side
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of that is the Alca Bite,
which is a company I reference earlier,
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where they are being very disruptive in
the Norwegian see farm are alqua farming industry.
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Instead of you putting in a net
and sampling tense fish and deciding how
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what your see life count is based
on that they're actually they can account for
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all two hundred thousand fish in a
pen because they're using carameras to do all
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of that capture, that day to
capture, and so they're able to get
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much better data about life and it
and what's happening inside of particular patents because
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they're using technology is there. It's
extremely disruptive and very new and very novel
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but very appropriate for their particular industry. And then, I shuld the layer
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on top of that that's so crucial
then is to be very, very solfule
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about how you're going to market,
and I would say this is the step
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that most technology companies aren't as good
at and it's absolutely crucial to nail,
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of course, what it's kind of
leading me to my to my next question.
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So we recently can across one of
your Offsi Colle while you outlying to
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keep tours and met rates, that
Aldy stage thought of should I don't from
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a marketing bull spit you. So
could you share with all agains the full
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phases of these front framewalk where the
market team focus should be on each of
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them? That so the four stages
I identified were phase one, which is
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founder selling, which is basically you
are trying to figure out like a this
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is basically the founders everything, like
your sales, you're marketing, and the
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key thing that you're trying to understand
and identifying there is what does this market
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need? Where the PROMS that I
can solve and what are the right ways
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to go to this market? And
it's really important that the founding team gets
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the signal directly, because that impacts
the product that gets still, you can
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do more, I'd say, like
lightweight customer discovery work that really make sure
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that you build the right solution that
can be compelling and then when you have
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to have a sense of what you
think it is. That leads to the
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next stage phase, which is product
market fit validation, and I don't call
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it product market fit because you kind
of have to validate whether or not you've
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got it. And this is a
step where you have some MVP or MVP
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ideas out in market and you're getting
some validation on whether or not it is
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actually going to be adopted by the
market. And this is likewise the place
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where I would say people they look
for validation on their ideas and they're not
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still in that sensing mode of people
are saying that it's good and that they
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like it, but they're not saying, Oh my God, I need to
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have it tomorrow. And and this
stage, that's what you want. You
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want something like how can i?
Can I buy this, like right now,
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if people are saying like yeah,
that would be useful, which is
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what a lot of people say because
they're all trying to be nice, people
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said it would be really useful.
That's not prodot markets. That like people
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feel like, Oh my God,
my life would be changed if this,
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if I had this. You really
want that level of pull, and the
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reason why I set the bar so
high is because there are twenty other people
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with twenty other ideas that are coming
at these same folks say like, Oh,
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I have something else is going to
be useful for you, and so
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that the fundamental shift that's happened in
the tech industry that a lot of people
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kind of haven't quite adjusted to is
how massively competitive it is for anyone's mind
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share. And we all think like, Oh, what I'm doing is unique
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and like. That be true,
but so are ten other things. They
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are unique, and it's kind of
the intersection of who you're talking to,
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what their needs are and how you
position it and frame it so that they
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feel like, Oh, I have
to have this, so that these two
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that product market fit validation and pastry
is the go to market fit validation.
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And I would say increasingly in be
to be, these are little hand and
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gloves. They're not necessarily sequential.
Those people think like Oh, I get
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product market fit and then I figure
out go to market fit. But in
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be to be in particular, kind
of have to figure out go to market
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fit as you're figuring out product market
fit, because sometimes it's who you're talking
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to that shapes whether or not the
product will be adopted. It's an example
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here at the team that I just
just met with last week and they had
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three different target audiences identified and I
said, okay, of those street so
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one was like frontline developer, the
second was engineering leader and the third with
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someone insecurity, and I said I
came of those and those three conversations,
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which was the person that said like
Oh, I wish I had this today?
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And they're like well, it's the
developer, the fromine developer, because
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that did you manager Reci reason decision
and they have some budget things that they
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need to consider, like everybody else, had other things that they were thinking,
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whereas the developers are like, Oh
yeah, I like this, like
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lot of these right now, like
that's the first mark it. So that
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is go to market fit and in
early stage, be to be startups.
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Sometimes that is as important, if
not more important, because once you make
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that decision saying that's the market that
can adopt this quickly, you might build
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a product differently and you certainly will
message it differently. So something that we
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identified in working together was all their
messaging was oriented around that security buyer.
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When they realize the one that would
move the market fast as was the frontline
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developer, that's naturally going to change
what they're going to say and how they're
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going to say it. And then
that fourth phase was the scaling phase,
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which is when, after you figured
out all those other things that work,
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that's when you can add gas to
the fire. Yeah, and that's I
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would say that people try to get
to scaling too quickly. Generally speaking,
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they're like, oh, we got
a little something that works, so let's
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build a pipeline and the high sales
people, you really have to make sure
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that that is something that when you
do that, it's you're you're going another
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race. Absolutely actually one of the
one of the statements in your secret what
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you mentioned is eastern teas to move
right, to turn on them engine and
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feel like they're doing marketing. So
basically, as you said, putting the
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food on the gas. Okay,
we found something that walks this this let's
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put off the investment in great lots
of please and and particularly with the pressure
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from VC's the market as it is, because you've good to get. If
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not, you're going to get catch
better competition in order that. So it's
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pretty to be quick, be successful
and that that's quickly. But why do
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you think he's done the right things
to do, to just, you know,
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tell on the dam engine? What
I have observed in again this is
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mostly in early stage, is people
look at early signal and they just do
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turn. They try to, quote
unquote, turn on demand and just a
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little bit too early, so you
can actually get to a million in the
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avenue, sometimes really quickly, and
then the next million and a million after
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that is a really, really hard
work. It's kind of like those early
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doctors, those friends, those friendlies
are like Oh sure, and so you
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think you have signal that the market
is going to adopt this and you haven't
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actually diagnosed either product market. That
or go to marketed very well. And
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the way I like to think about
it is the before you kind of just
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add fuel to the fire, you
need to make sure that you have diagnosed
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demand, and that means who are
we talking to? What are the things
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that we need to say that actually
compel them and feel a sense of urgency,
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and what are the things that help
keep our sale cycles tight and repeatable?
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So you can't actually get to stealing
and that real demandion that everybody like,
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Oh yeah, we've got a pipeline
and this would start on. You
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can't get there and less you're pretty
sure that your process is repeatable. And
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the real test for that is,
can you take an average sales rep so
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not someone that is like spectacular and
able to do all the yeah, I
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know what you mean, give them
an extremely well defined process and and do
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your thing and have it yield success
and and do that in less than six
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months. The average time that it
takes on board a BBB wrap these days
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is is usually less than six months, if I learned the four and half
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to six months range. And so
you have to make sure, like the
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only way that that works is if
process that you have in place for that
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rep enables them to be successful and
on board in that time Framis that that
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they can actually contribute and absolutely reach
their quote a goal, because they they're
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not motivated either, like, oh, this is really hard, and everybody
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starts. You see US evolved in
it. Everyone absolutely out. Yeah,
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and you saw this thing of I
know better. I usually looking my previous
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company, which is extremely on knowing. You know, we still is.
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He can't be good sometimes, but
we we do exactly the same. So
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we belive that scandy BDT is the
fruit of developing a strong process flow where
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you've got convulsion rate from one face
with yours off face. Okay, you
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will drop some and I think he's
much exactly the same when it comes to
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when it's come to building up and
what we'd like to do. We like
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to get a new cells right,
no matter how junior or senior they are,
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to come into a process where we've
already built some sort of formation of
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what that flow process should look like
and we've got already so made of wood,
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the conversion between each face sheets.
Basically, if we've got to the
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most stramble some yet we can explain
a process and saying, well, this
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is the will walks and if you
see, this is the reason why you
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are failing and this is what you
should change at this stage. The other
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reason, but basically almost giving them
like a an explanation of what is expected
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from them to do with the the
full step by step approach, which ultimately
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some of them don't like because they
feel that they are being watched, but
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is ultimately very important if you just
want to make sure that you've got settee
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more. You don't have just one
person succeeding, why, but having a
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team of five, six, ten
that all successful. So we do exactly
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the same building of the stable search
process. And just to add that,
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you'd ask a question about your like
the pressure that you feel from this.
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See happens is as you succeed.
The reason why there's so much pressure from
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this is, as they say,
like okay, these guys have got it,
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figured it out, and so the
expectation as you're growing, is that
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you've figured it out and if you
sort of accidentally and luckily stumble the pound
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the success that you have to day, then it you can't actually just add
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feel to that fire. That's where
you get this tension where there's intense pressure
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to grow and these expectations and the
inside the company to are we're a mess.
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Why? They expection is to grow, like that's a reasonable and the
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backers are kind of like, well, you having a great growers and they
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didn't realize these there would be supernatural
acts that actually got them there, and
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so that, yeah, but on
a go to market side, for sales
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and marking to really be like a
lock step and just yeah, we're ready
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and we actually know what it takes
to grow and and meet those expectations.
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So speaking, a Book v Season
Pressure. But I don't think he's just
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to be seasy. It's also business. Oh now, co fundos or do
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people who thought to be this?
Everybody be patient nowadays now, but nobody
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wants to want to wait. We
breading up a kercial off in patients,
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but that's extense and post purely when
you are starting with. Just Stop Up,
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when you've got Lem et heat bunget
immediate resources. Do you give advice,
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or would you have a new advice
to all audiences to what the key
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KPI that they should look at should
be? I'll do the evaluate that they're
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doing the right things. But how
do you go about that. I don't
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think there's any single KPI and you
just have to look at your overall business
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holistically. I did. The healthy
ones that I've seen are ones that have
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business schools that are well articulated.
They have a vision, but then they
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have business schools that are well articulated
that the entire company can work towards so
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that, okay, ours or any
of the key metrics that get tracked are
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actually shared a cross functions, because
what I've observed is, if you like,
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marking has theircles, fils has tercles, which they need to have their
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own functional goals, but they all
have to align and create alignment so that
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the whole company is working towards those
the schools. So that's when I've seen
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business schools that the entire all the
functional organizations underneath can align themselves toward and
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moved towards black steps. I say
that is when I've seen things most successful.
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But in terms of basic KPIS and
through that world of inpatients we are
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some important things. A lot of
it is just consistency. Can Can you
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perform consistently? So it's not like
hey, we have these Kpis, were
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meeting the Apis is sort of like
are are you consistent and how you perform?
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One that I actually really like is
is are your problem the new every
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quarterer? If you to keep going
back to like there's one company that I've
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worked with where every other board meeting
were like, is it a little ground?
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How days? Because that means that
that improvements not actually happening, and
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what you want to have is every
board meeting people are like, well,
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they killed that last problem. Now
they've moved on to the next, because
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that means that it's learning, it's
growing and there will always be problemsn't always
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be challenges and issues, and the
end it's just like how do you overcome
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them and how do you move through
them so that what a good metric about,
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like you, is the right amount
of inpatients for urgency. I don't
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think there's something that helps you calibrate
around that other than I don't think it's
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new. This like notion of impatience. That especially just thinking about that this
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morning. When I started my career
at Microsoft, this is when it was
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a public company in the system at
early S, and every single day we
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felt this incredible sense of urgency and
it wasn't that there was this in patience.
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It was just like there's in technology
always there seems to be this incredible
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opportunity that, through fronting, that
everybody wants to run towards. And that's
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just this industry and it has been
the entire my entire career, and it
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has been like that. I'm always
shocked when someone doesn't have the like,
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you know, pea in a pant
sense of earth is. You're like,
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don't you feel the sus of urgency? That's not they're just because it seems
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endemic to be. It has been
my entire career. So I would say
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that doesn't feel new. It's,
I think, one of the really exciting
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parts of technology and why it keeps
changing and why it's so exciting as an
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industry to be in. Yeah,
no, no, I agree with you
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and and from my perspective I think
adapt to be it's terroristic because when you
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walk for a startup and you there
is a part security if you've got if
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you bring a new from them to
the market and he happens to us,
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the fund that we sit down with
clients and they tell us about the very
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proposition and what I'm okay, well, this is great that's to me,
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me, me, me, me, beat. That's you're the first time
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doing that's you are the first to
do this sort of thinking quicker than this
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one. Right, it's sort about
you. Fantastic, probably is. No
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one knows you. So we try
to explain to them as it's really about
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the people that they are target seeing
what's happening in their life with that sort
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of a pain. That is big
enough, okay. Is it the stone
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in their shoe? And is that
student big enough so they actually want to
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take out the Sho and do something
about it? I can they carry on
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walking with the should that they've got
in, with the stood that they've got
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industrial I don't. It is really
important and I think it's about trying and
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being honest with with yourself and if
you try something that is not working,
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but at least you try. You're
not sitting there waiting for things to open.
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If it's not working, knock it
on the ED and and, as
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you said, if you find a
formula that is working, just a picture
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of it. Stop there, everybody
move, everybody freeze and let's try to
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repeat it. Let's look at it. What's was working? Why was it
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working? Can we repeat that?
And a board, and that's often something
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that's missing from our clients will try
trade, try the SMA D when actually,
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you know, trying different venues,
having lots of macrocompaign would be would
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be a bit more successful. But
that's kind of leading me to another question
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around you know, what do you
think of the maindown falls that only stage
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startups need to avoid from a marketing
perspective? I would say that you are
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unified. One of them, which
is not being dynamic and how you just
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what you're doing, like you find
something at work and I like, okay,
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we'll just kind of stick with this. I always recommend that like twenty
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five percent of your Ating Energy Al
is it this sent on something new that
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you haven't tried before. So you're
always trying to push an edge and distinguishmenting
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that you might not know that might
be even better than it's you're already doing.
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So it's more of that discovery mindset
kind of what they're similar to product,
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where you have to be throwing as
many ideas away as you're keeping if
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you're truly exploring the landscape of possibility. And typically what I see happen is
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they're kind of like, oh well, these things worked well enough and so
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we're going to stick with them and
double down with them. And so definitely,
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I say, at the can feel
safe, which is understandable, but
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you so, I say, that's
one thing, which is like failing to
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continue to kind of push an engine
find other things that are going to work
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for you, and to the other
is in kind of more that cross functional
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alignment. Like the marketing function,
you're like, okay, we got to
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do this and we have to create
our pipeline, but you're marketing functions capacity
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to be effective is very, very
dependent on sales and their ability to like
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process that pipeline and with count these
marketing and all these other things were really
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especially as it relates to be to
be so much of the focus of a
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lot of thought of where things are
going to happens work better, making sure
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that you're totally lock step with sales
and not just like Oh yeah, we're
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running these campaigns for sales. It's
for like running them along side sales and
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they just feel like they can be
successful about it, so that it really
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feels like a true partnership. And
say that's a watch point that I think
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people think that they're doing because they're
talking with sale and talking with sales and
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being actually aligned with sales and doing
things together in market are different. Absolutely.
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And My last question to you is
is around the skills set. And
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we always the particularly when we even
when I meet we see you. I
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think there is people who are the
most season would tell you, Ay,
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I'm the sort of gay that we'll
take the company from zero to fifty million
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and then I need to puss onto
someone else or I'm going to take a
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copy from fifty, twember and fifty, except for e Seha. Do you
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think it's seem, you know,
for marketing? Do you think there is
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a specific breed? Tell that I'm
all a better suited for walking with startups
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and then after our cultain stage,
you should probably go to the next one.
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Not Do well in a large organization. Do you feel that a place
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to to marketing as a company group? I do think that's generally for most
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functions where it's truly the extraordinary individual
that I can steal scale from the zero
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to wherever the company winds up being. That is like one in n out
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what the number is, but it's
really just that's rare and extraordinary and because
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the skill set is really different.
So on the sale side, watching refers
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to this day we crack at rabbit, someone that can make stuff up on
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the fly and and really just chuck
and Gibe with what they're interacting with at
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the market because it's not well defined. Now that person is going to be
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terrible when you're scaling and you need
it to be more predictable. Similarly,
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with marketing, at the early stages
this is someone that needs to be very
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hands on, that is getting that
direct signal from sales, from the customer
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and processing it and doing things Hereno
and trying things and and just being right
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in the stick of it. And
that person sometimes doesn't necessarily scale well because
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they are sir hands on and they're
and because they can kind of pass fingers
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and a whole lot of pots.
As the functions are growing and there's there
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starts to be a little bit more
separation, discipline and process, sometimes that
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person, because they are so shutting
and grooving, doesn't work as effectively in
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the more scaled organization where you need
a little bit our process and there's more
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organization the management than there is actual
like just doing it your function. So
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I definitely think that it's true and
marketing for a CEO in sales and sometimes
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also with products, like I did. Generally there is not I don't see
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enough real true customer discovery work happening
even in early stage starts, which is
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surprising to stay but a lot of
it is like, Oh, we got
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to Russian get something out to market, and so there's a lot of validation
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versus discovery, which are two different
so it is it's they're different skill sets.
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There are those extraordinary uniforms book for
like ninety nine percent of the world
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out there. It's kind of like
buying the right person form right now,
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and that is the right call,
like ninety nine, play nine percent of
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the time right. Yeah, well, thank you. Rush for it safe
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must not already appreciate to defense.
You to the thing to to be with
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me today and other conversation is definitely
very interesting. In them, looks of
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00:23:34.890 --> 00:23:40.009
experience comes through. The conversation was
low of the few stories and what you
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shadow was. This was what it
was. Pretty if anyone wants to connect
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with you and no more about your
company, I'll just continue a conversation of
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flight. What would be the best
way to get into Treez Your Martina?
346
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:56.269
I did please connect with me on
Linkedin and let me know that you listen
347
00:23:56.430 --> 00:23:59.829
to the podcast so I know,
because I only like to connect with people
348
00:23:59.910 --> 00:24:08.990
that like have a reason for Tunis
just are you just heard? If you
349
00:24:10.059 --> 00:24:12.339
heard that the Mosten to it and
you got it interesting, connect with me.
350
00:24:12.420 --> 00:24:15.539
You're following me on Linkedin. That's
a great way to reach me.
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That's great. Well, it was
fantastic to be on the show to day.
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Thank you again for your time,
Matina. Thank you, guys so
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00:24:21.019 --> 00:24:27.690
much. operatics has redefined the meaning
of revenue generation for technology companies worldwide.
354
00:24:27.730 --> 00:24:33.490
While the traditional concepts of building and
managing inside sales teams inhouse has existed for
355
00:24:33.650 --> 00:24:38.400
many years, companies are struggling with
a lack of focus, agility and scale
356
00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:45.319
required in today's fast and complex world
of enterprise technology sales. See O operatics
357
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:52.839
can help your company accelerate pipeline at
operatics dotnet. You've been listening to BEDB
358
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revenue acceleration. To ensure that you
never miss an episode, subscribe to the
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show in your favorite podcast player.
Thank you so much for listening. Until
360
00:25:00.630 --> 00:25:02.029
next time,
