67: What Exactly Does a Product Marketer Do? w/ Suda Srinivasan

January 01, 2020 00:26:36
67: What Exactly Does a Product Marketer Do? w/ Suda Srinivasan
B2B Revenue Acceleration
67: What Exactly Does a Product Marketer Do? w/ Suda Srinivasan

Jan 01 2020 | 00:26:36

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Show Notes

If you’ve been in tech long, you know about product marketers. But here’s the question:

What do product marketers actually do? 

That’s the question we posed to Suda Srinivasan, VP of Marketing & CX at Obsidian Security.

What we talked about:

To hear this interview, and many more like it, you can subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

View Full Transcript

Episode Transcript

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:08.349 You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executives stay 2 00:00:08.390 --> 00:00:12.189 on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into 3 00:00:12.189 --> 00:00:16.829 the show. Hi, welcome to be to be a revenue acceleration. My 4 00:00:16.870 --> 00:00:20.109 Name is opinion. With you and I'm here today. We stood out Strini, 5 00:00:20.109 --> 00:00:23.219 vest and VP marketing at obsidian. How are you doing today's at a 6 00:00:23.660 --> 00:00:27.219 Hi Alien, I'm doing great, for pleasure to speak with you. Absolutely 7 00:00:27.260 --> 00:00:30.219 well. Thank you very much for coming on the PODCAST. To the appreciates 8 00:00:30.219 --> 00:00:34.259 its remember and day in lots of places in the world, so I appreciate 9 00:00:34.420 --> 00:00:38.009 you took the time to drive yourself into your fie to the podcast with us, 10 00:00:38.250 --> 00:00:42.409 and today we will be talking about the many hats of a product marketer. 11 00:00:42.890 --> 00:00:46.490 But before we get started, it would be very useful today you could 12 00:00:46.530 --> 00:00:50.759 give a brief introduction to your company, Obsidian, as well as yourself and 13 00:00:50.920 --> 00:00:54.359 what you been between the past. Basically, yeah, my name is Soda. 14 00:00:54.719 --> 00:00:59.799 I run marketing at obsidian security. OBSIDIAN is a cyber security company located 15 00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:06.150 in Orange County, California. We help organizations protect their staff and loud services 16 00:01:06.709 --> 00:01:11.069 from a count take over insider threat and some of the new thread tractors in 17 00:01:11.109 --> 00:01:14.989 the cloud. But we offered a fast platform, and a fast platform continuously 18 00:01:15.269 --> 00:01:22.180 monitors and analyzes access entitlements and activity in your cloud applications like sales force, 19 00:01:22.340 --> 00:01:26.900 g sweet box, drop box, etc. It collects the data, normalizes 20 00:01:26.939 --> 00:01:32.219 the data across the cut platforms and whiches it and gives you consolidated visibility into 21 00:01:32.260 --> 00:01:37.209 risks and threats at the user level, organization level and application level, as 22 00:01:37.290 --> 00:01:40.489 well as flagging for a security hygiene in the cloud. So as still, 23 00:01:40.569 --> 00:01:45.170 our solution is in a new space called loud detection and response, just like 24 00:01:45.450 --> 00:01:49.239 endpoint detection and response or Edr. Solutions like route strike and carbon black give 25 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:55.560 you a visibility into what's happening on your user as endpoint devices like mobile devices 26 00:01:55.599 --> 00:02:00.959 and laptops. I'm city and less security teams continuously monitor activity and detect, 27 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:05.189 investigate and respond to security incidents in the cloud. So the company was founded 28 00:02:05.269 --> 00:02:10.110 by Industry Veterans from Silance, Carbon Black and the NSA. Before of city 29 00:02:10.150 --> 00:02:14.830 and I was the VP of marketing and bed at domeline security. You may 30 00:02:14.870 --> 00:02:17.740 have heard of them. You mine was in the cloud security and compliance management 31 00:02:17.780 --> 00:02:23.539 space. The company was acquired by checkpoint last year. It stuff. So 32 00:02:23.900 --> 00:02:27.180 you know, I do gets off from your introdiction as you come from a 33 00:02:27.300 --> 00:02:30.689 product marketing background, but it was a very busy question. What exactly does 34 00:02:30.729 --> 00:02:36.129 a product market do in a B Tob Tech Company? That's a great question. 35 00:02:36.169 --> 00:02:38.930 Or Alien. So that's right, I come from a BB product marketing 36 00:02:38.969 --> 00:02:43.490 background. I started my career as an engineer, then spend a few years 37 00:02:43.530 --> 00:02:46.919 and management consulting. When I returned to an operational role, I it wasn't 38 00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:52.960 product marketing. So product marketing is a set of activities involved in bringing a 39 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:57.560 product to market and ensuring its commercial success, because I say come marcial, 40 00:02:57.599 --> 00:03:00.669 because that's very often the objective of building a new product. As you can 41 00:03:00.710 --> 00:03:05.069 imagine, you know, product marketing, the set of activities, is critical 42 00:03:05.150 --> 00:03:09.110 to a company success. Now, product marketing as a separate function or role 43 00:03:09.389 --> 00:03:13.860 in an organization is more recent. Right, this is the product marketer, 44 00:03:14.379 --> 00:03:20.340 and a product marketer is responsible for developing and coordinating the execution of the go 45 00:03:20.500 --> 00:03:23.020 to market strategy for the company's product. Right. So what exactly does a 46 00:03:23.099 --> 00:03:28.810 product marketer really own? Product Marketer owns the go to market plan, right, 47 00:03:28.889 --> 00:03:31.810 just as a product manager, owns the product requirements document. Of the 48 00:03:31.889 --> 00:03:36.849 RD product marketer owns the go to market plan. So what does that mean? 49 00:03:37.490 --> 00:03:40.479 Product Marketer is responsible for doing a whole bunch of different things, identifying 50 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:46.719 and articulating who the target customer is, the type of organizations, the roles 51 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:51.879 and persona of the people involved in buying and using the solution, and then 52 00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:55.229 understanding what their specific needs are. Right. So, figuring out what the 53 00:03:55.349 --> 00:04:01.030 buyers and users need and developing positioning and messaging for the product that helps the 54 00:04:01.150 --> 00:04:06.430 target buyers understand how the product makes their life better. Right EXA. This, 55 00:04:06.550 --> 00:04:11.699 in essence, is the messaging and positioning. Product Marketer also defines how 56 00:04:11.780 --> 00:04:15.460 the company is going to reach these target customers, right, so developing pricing 57 00:04:15.539 --> 00:04:19.339 and packaging, identifying the channels that the company is going to use and enabling 58 00:04:19.540 --> 00:04:24.769 sales channel teams to reach the customer and sell to them. Right out of 59 00:04:24.889 --> 00:04:29.449 product marketers role was also understanding the comparative landscape in which the product exists. 60 00:04:29.569 --> 00:04:33.529 Right which solutions are likely to be seen as competitors or substitutes for the product, 61 00:04:33.930 --> 00:04:36.290 one good option being, you know, do it yourself or kind of 62 00:04:36.329 --> 00:04:43.240 homecooked solutions, also being able to articulate what the benefits of your solution are 63 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:47.920 versus others. Right now, product marketers also act as evangelists and public spokes 64 00:04:47.959 --> 00:04:53.550 people in talking about the value proposition in the right way to different audiences, 65 00:04:53.709 --> 00:04:58.430 right, being analysts or the press or customers. So they speak in executive 66 00:04:58.470 --> 00:05:01.470 briefing, stiled events, conferences, right in blogs, right in columns and 67 00:05:01.509 --> 00:05:04.550 so on. So, as you can tell, some of these activities are 68 00:05:04.670 --> 00:05:10.259 tied to the process along bringing a product to market and they happen before the 69 00:05:10.339 --> 00:05:14.660 product is launched, right yeah, while others that tie to driving adoption of 70 00:05:14.779 --> 00:05:19.579 the product or service after launch. Okay, so product marketer owns the go 71 00:05:19.699 --> 00:05:24.250 to market or GDM plan. Now it's important to realize that ownership does not 72 00:05:24.449 --> 00:05:28.290 mean that he or she does all the tasks associated with executing the plan. 73 00:05:28.569 --> 00:05:32.290 Right, of product marketer is the quarterback for product commercialization. That means, 74 00:05:32.449 --> 00:05:35.959 you know, it might mean working with the executive team on positioning, working 75 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:41.040 with sales and on enablement and channel strategy and so on. Right, so 76 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:44.560 that's a lot of teamwork involved here. So a big part of the role 77 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:48.800 is coordinating and communicating so that everyone is on the same page about this plan. 78 00:05:49.269 --> 00:05:54.910 Yeah, and what's the involvement of product marketing with this sea CEO and 79 00:05:54.990 --> 00:05:58.790 the technique or that? We spoke about free launge and first lounge and I 80 00:05:58.829 --> 00:06:02.589 would expect the first launch to be probably a bit more a certain marketing relationship, 81 00:06:02.670 --> 00:06:08.500 marketing in the the commercial sense of the work. But twitch points would 82 00:06:08.500 --> 00:06:12.100 you increase the river of interaction with a technique quality, because it will be 83 00:06:12.860 --> 00:06:15.379 as a product marketing you need to be closer to the technique or team and 84 00:06:15.459 --> 00:06:18.089 on Tho. Something exactly they in now is that it's not just about the 85 00:06:18.930 --> 00:06:23.769 customers and the aid of a message. is also probably sometimes about getting into 86 00:06:23.810 --> 00:06:27.970 the grass of things absolutely right, and the product marketer needs to have an 87 00:06:28.050 --> 00:06:32.199 intimate understanding of both the space and of the specific technologies of the company is 88 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:36.639 building. So I think the involvement with the CTEO and the product team starts 89 00:06:36.759 --> 00:06:42.519 early light from kind of creating the shared view of what the market looks like 90 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:45.959 and the product that the company is building to go after this market. Right. 91 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:49.470 So the CTEO, the product management team and product marketing need to be 92 00:06:49.589 --> 00:06:55.269 on the same page about how the world looks outside, what the specific problems 93 00:06:55.310 --> 00:07:00.189 are the customers have and what the company is building to save all those problems. 94 00:07:00.230 --> 00:07:02.740 Right. So that start early and part of what the product marketing team 95 00:07:02.819 --> 00:07:08.300 does there is bring that outside in view. For the CTEOS and product management 96 00:07:08.339 --> 00:07:12.779 teaks are doing analysis of the market, understanding what the big trends are and 97 00:07:12.980 --> 00:07:15.970 essentially framing that in a way that the company can consume. Let mean that 98 00:07:16.089 --> 00:07:19.889 you've got to take to two type of communication you've got. You've got to 99 00:07:20.009 --> 00:07:26.370 think about one vision and where product marketer will be focusing on end user and 100 00:07:26.490 --> 00:07:30.160 how to communicate within user and creating content for them. We Sitra, but 101 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:35.120 but also the role of an internal communicator in between sales, marketing, products, 102 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:40.560 technical and potentially pursers as well. You have tried. Yes, you 103 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:44.240 nailed it. So big part of this is external communication. is how the 104 00:07:44.350 --> 00:07:46.910 company and product are perceived by the world, and that is that is very 105 00:07:46.990 --> 00:07:50.910 often what people see as the role of marketing or product marketing. But the 106 00:07:50.990 --> 00:07:56.870 flip side of this is just building internal cohesion and a coordinating the efforts of 107 00:07:57.029 --> 00:08:01.100 the different team and making sure that everyone understands, everyone has a consistent view 108 00:08:01.100 --> 00:08:05.980 of what the outside world looks like and what the company is building. Right. 109 00:08:05.980 --> 00:08:09.420 So the big part of what you're doing is also communicating internally so that 110 00:08:09.540 --> 00:08:13.449 everyone's on the same page, right. And and this has to happen. 111 00:08:13.449 --> 00:08:16.490 It's an ongoing process because, you know, plans change. You come up 112 00:08:16.490 --> 00:08:20.930 with product market and a hypothesis, product market for hypothesis, and then you 113 00:08:22.009 --> 00:08:24.050 need to kind of work with that plan and everyone, as especially as the 114 00:08:24.129 --> 00:08:30.199 company grows, want to make sure that sales, marketing, product, cteos 115 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:33.679 office are all aligned in terms of, you know, what it is the 116 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:37.080 company selling, what is the market look like? What is the story that 117 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:39.440 you want to be a telling customers, right, because consistency is key in 118 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:43.950 this. So absolutely just as important. Yeah, you're to tell us some 119 00:08:45.110 --> 00:08:50.470 stories internally and Expialis, but building the cultures were so probably a strong pillar 120 00:08:50.549 --> 00:08:54.429 of the culture. What would you say are the main challenges of the role 121 00:08:54.980 --> 00:08:58.379 as so, I'm sure so wide open question because it may depend on the 122 00:08:58.460 --> 00:09:01.740 type of company you are working for and everything. But if you are to 123 00:09:01.860 --> 00:09:07.259 send them up and in a few sentences, what would you say the main 124 00:09:07.299 --> 00:09:11.129 changes of product marketers noways in in today's markets? That is a great question, 125 00:09:11.289 --> 00:09:15.570 right I think one of the things that product marketers have to realize, 126 00:09:15.649 --> 00:09:18.970 and company as all that realizes, that product marketing is a leverage function. 127 00:09:20.409 --> 00:09:24.559 What I mean by that is product marketers own the goat market plan, but 128 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:28.039 like product management, product manager, for example, figures out what the what 129 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:33.720 the company should be building, the specific set of features that customers need and 130 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:37.399 will pay for. Product Manager owns the PRD and coordinates execution, but doesn't 131 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:41.429 product manager actually build a product? Know, you have engineering for that. 132 00:09:41.750 --> 00:09:46.950 So similarly, a product marketing person is responsible for coordinating the execution of the 133 00:09:46.029 --> 00:09:50.549 Bato market plan, but this usually happens through the efforts of other teams. 134 00:09:50.750 --> 00:09:56.419 So product marketer has to understand that their role is quarterbacking, but does not 135 00:09:56.580 --> 00:09:58.019 mean that they have to carry the ball every time. Right. They have 136 00:09:58.139 --> 00:10:03.059 to basically work with sales, work with marketing, work through product management to 137 00:10:03.379 --> 00:10:07.529 execute things right. And so it's essentially a role that involved ownership, but 138 00:10:07.649 --> 00:10:13.250 not necessarily the authority to go and do things right. It's a function that 139 00:10:13.409 --> 00:10:16.690 that work best through others in the organization as well, and so understanding that 140 00:10:16.970 --> 00:10:22.639 just keep and essentially having its also a relatively new role, right, having 141 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:26.960 a person who's responsibly for this. It's a relatively new thing in organizations. 142 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:31.360 So very often there is not a common view of what exactly product marketing should 143 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:35.149 be doing right now. This is something that that you see time and again, 144 00:10:35.309 --> 00:10:41.070 where the organizations typically look at product marketing as the if the role is 145 00:10:41.149 --> 00:10:46.230 usually usually more narrowly defined. Right, in these companies, a product marketers 146 00:10:46.269 --> 00:10:48.750 essentially a content creator writing. Why? That was SIS. That's what they 147 00:10:48.830 --> 00:10:52.700 means that. That's why I was leading with my questions. That's sometimes I 148 00:10:52.779 --> 00:10:56.500 think there is a confusion between contents. You know, even some things the 149 00:10:56.659 --> 00:11:01.460 generation, which I think he said it's completely different ward, but the thing 150 00:11:01.539 --> 00:11:05.409 you you send me up in a perfect way. Yeah, so seeming product 151 00:11:05.450 --> 00:11:09.610 marketing role is very narrowly defined in the sense that people think they're essentially content 152 00:11:09.730 --> 00:11:13.889 creators writing white papers. theyreciate revocation to go on and you can see white 153 00:11:13.929 --> 00:11:16.809 product marketing is associated with this, right, because sales and marketing teams need 154 00:11:16.970 --> 00:11:22.320 good content and it is a tactical, immediate need in many companies, and 155 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:26.320 very often product marketers are the only folks in the company that are tasked with 156 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:30.759 creating product content. So the product marketers of course need to have strong communication 157 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:33.950 skills, both with them and Burbo. But if your company is seen product 158 00:11:33.990 --> 00:11:39.110 marketers purely as content creators, you are not using the function in a smart 159 00:11:39.149 --> 00:11:41.909 way. Right. A product marketer where's many, many hats, or product 160 00:11:41.909 --> 00:11:46.259 marketers a strategist? You or she's an evangelist and advisor to sales and marketing 161 00:11:46.539 --> 00:11:50.019 and in general, a business problem solver, like six a person. So 162 00:11:50.620 --> 00:11:56.460 product marketers, the good ones, see themselves as business owners and will do 163 00:11:56.659 --> 00:12:00.580 any and everything needed to make the product commercial success. Right. And so 164 00:12:01.340 --> 00:12:05.690 the CEO down have to look at this function as this kind of broaduct role 165 00:12:05.250 --> 00:12:11.169 of problem solving and thought and product commercialization rather than just content create yeah, 166 00:12:11.210 --> 00:12:13.649 that makes that makes perfect sense. So that's what you would say. The 167 00:12:13.730 --> 00:12:18.879 difference between a good product market to a great product marketer is actually someone we 168 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:24.840 managed to get that that sort of strategy outlook on things rather than just going 169 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:28.799 to do the details of the product. Yeah, so that is that's definitely 170 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:31.389 a question I've thought about a lot, I think. I think that is 171 00:12:31.549 --> 00:12:35.350 one the starting point. Right, product marketers are essentially product owners. They 172 00:12:35.389 --> 00:12:41.590 have to think like function agnostic leaders and they essentially do what needs doing right, 173 00:12:41.669 --> 00:12:46.340 building bridges across the organization. Problem Solving. So you work with sales 174 00:12:46.379 --> 00:12:50.259 and marketing to identify bottlenecks in the sales process and shorten them one by one. 175 00:12:50.340 --> 00:12:54.659 Right. That's product market is. Should be thinking it is where is, 176 00:12:54.860 --> 00:12:58.970 what is what is causing delays in the sales process, what is causing 177 00:12:58.049 --> 00:13:03.450 limited success in terms of customers discovering the solution, and then go and solve 178 00:13:03.529 --> 00:13:05.129 that one by one. That is what a product market is should be thinking 179 00:13:05.169 --> 00:13:09.169 about. Now, the best product marketers that I've seen can really get into 180 00:13:09.210 --> 00:13:15.240 the mind of the customer and understand their needs and pains and speak their language 181 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:18.240 right, so they recognize that their function really starts with the customers. Now, 182 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:22.240 when you see that messaging is done right, it really doesn't sound like 183 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:26.759 marketing came up with it. Like very often you hear a customers distances, 184 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:30.549 we say that was just a bunch of marketing fluff. Yeah, I the 185 00:13:30.750 --> 00:13:35.230 problem with that is when there's a disconnect between how the product marketers speaks and 186 00:13:35.309 --> 00:13:39.909 communicates the value and what the customers see the world as. Right, if 187 00:13:39.950 --> 00:13:43.179 a product marketer is grounded in their customers reality, they will be able to 188 00:13:43.259 --> 00:13:48.820 articulate what a product says and does in a way that feels authentic and were 189 00:13:48.259 --> 00:13:52.059 right. Affest way to do this, I found, is to build a 190 00:13:52.179 --> 00:13:56.049 personal connection with customers, speak with customers in a regular basis, start kind 191 00:13:56.090 --> 00:14:00.129 of talking to them about their problems, so that you're not sitting in an 192 00:14:00.169 --> 00:14:01.809 ivory tower. There's one other thought, which is you know, you said 193 00:14:03.009 --> 00:14:05.049 product marketers have to be strategic. There is, I would say, product 194 00:14:05.090 --> 00:14:09.000 marketers need to have mental flexibility, right, the ability to zoom in, 195 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:15.000 zoom out, gets super tactical and think about specific collateral, specific content, 196 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:18.559 specific programs that will help customers at different points of a biased journey, but 197 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:22.799 also zoom out and understand how the strategic landscape is shifting. Right, for 198 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:26.629 example, if a comparitor bought a company, what does that mean for you? 199 00:14:26.950 --> 00:14:31.149 Right? How do analysts define the space that you are in and how 200 00:14:31.230 --> 00:14:35.230 is that you evolving? So there is this kind of mental acrobatics of, 201 00:14:35.590 --> 00:14:39.460 you know, one meeting you're sitting and talking about specific programs, collateral and 202 00:14:39.580 --> 00:14:41.700 so on. The very next meeting you could be sitting and talking about, 203 00:14:43.019 --> 00:14:45.620 you know, where should the company be headed? Most? More broadly, 204 00:14:45.659 --> 00:14:48.539 most of us the house, the space evolving, right, what's happened to 205 00:14:48.580 --> 00:14:52.299 the competitive landscape and so on? Right, so this requires that you kind 206 00:14:52.340 --> 00:14:54.649 of keep a singer on the pulse of the industry, stay Internet with what's 207 00:14:54.690 --> 00:14:58.090 happening. What are you doing, what a competitors doing, what another is 208 00:14:58.129 --> 00:15:01.970 talking about? What the POT leaders? What the people that are kind of 209 00:15:03.129 --> 00:15:09.679 guiding and shaping customers buying decisions and identifying patterns from your own industry, from 210 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:11.360 the past, as well as from other industries. Right, so this is 211 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:16.240 the pattern matching is something that essentially like business wisdom, right, and you 212 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:20.320 develop that, I experience and with, you know, enough reading and exposure 213 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:24.549 to the to the world out there. Yeah, thanks, that makes perfect 214 00:15:24.549 --> 00:15:28.070 sense. So it's almost the question of as an internel product marketer, you 215 00:15:28.110 --> 00:15:33.309 would almost benefits from having experience of having been on and user at some point 216 00:15:33.350 --> 00:15:35.500 in your life too. Really on those on that wall, because at the 217 00:15:35.500 --> 00:15:39.980 end of the day, if I'm if I'm transcripting, what will saying, 218 00:15:39.100 --> 00:15:43.379 what I appreciation you've got to make generality is because you need to market, 219 00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:48.059 so you need to to appeal to just when individual but groups of individuals. 220 00:15:48.419 --> 00:15:52.210 But it's really about gets you on the the skin of your end user, 221 00:15:52.409 --> 00:15:54.850 on, though, some doubt, challenges, as well as potentially madge that 222 00:15:56.009 --> 00:15:58.690 up with your competition and everything. So source on those, on the option 223 00:15:58.769 --> 00:16:02.210 that they've got is a tright that is right. I mean you have to 224 00:16:02.409 --> 00:16:07.039 really get under the skin off your customers understand how they think about making the 225 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:11.240 buying decision. Right, I mean, who are the first of all, 226 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:14.279 how do they think about the space? Do they have the problems that we 227 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:17.720 think you can solve for them? And being able to use the right I 228 00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:21.870 mean I've seen that if you use the right terminology, if you speak about 229 00:16:21.870 --> 00:16:25.870 the problems using the words that they associate with, there is a much stronger 230 00:16:25.990 --> 00:16:30.389 connection between the message and the customers, right because they have to. These 231 00:16:30.389 --> 00:16:33.899 are terms that they use, they indy out and they're describing their problems, 232 00:16:33.940 --> 00:16:37.659 are their challenges. So essentially, you need and the ability to Mary the 233 00:16:37.740 --> 00:16:41.100 problems in those in their terms and really understand how big a problem it is 234 00:16:41.179 --> 00:16:45.019 for them. Right. Is it an urgent issue? Because, especially when 235 00:16:45.019 --> 00:16:48.649 you're talking about messaging in positioning for a start up, like one of the 236 00:16:48.690 --> 00:16:52.889 big things is you are starting with a set of hypothesis. You believe that 237 00:16:52.330 --> 00:16:56.610 you know the right messaging for the customer. But this is really where you 238 00:16:56.690 --> 00:17:00.090 know. You have to evolve the messaging very quickly based on the feedback you 239 00:17:00.210 --> 00:17:02.519 get, and the best way to do that, I found, is to 240 00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:04.720 think like the customer. And now this could mean that you spend some time 241 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:08.160 as the end user, like for us it would be the sea sours organization, 242 00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:12.279 or you essentially spent enough time with them that you learn through us, 243 00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:15.910 Moss, like you, internal life the messaging, and this is this, 244 00:17:17.069 --> 00:17:19.630 this comes with, you know, exposure and again, spending time in their 245 00:17:19.710 --> 00:17:23.190 shoes. Of course, of course not that. On the some completely and 246 00:17:23.670 --> 00:17:26.869 it seems to me that do, and I think you mentioned that on on 247 00:17:26.990 --> 00:17:32.059 the conversation. Do Rod is kind of new or the role is evolving. 248 00:17:32.220 --> 00:17:34.740 So can you take us through a which you believe or what's your sound on 249 00:17:34.819 --> 00:17:38.180 the shifts of the role in the last few years? I was thinking, 250 00:17:38.339 --> 00:17:41.740 for ex involving off and also what I mean interesting on something from you is 251 00:17:41.859 --> 00:17:45.250 what you seing the road is going. The best is one single words, 252 00:17:45.289 --> 00:17:48.809 using the road is going. Would you would you? Would you say that 253 00:17:49.490 --> 00:17:53.369 for the marketing should have a seat at the bulbs? That's a great question. 254 00:17:53.410 --> 00:17:57.250 Again, I think product marketing has has evolved quite a bit in the 255 00:17:57.329 --> 00:18:02.519 time that I've been in product marketing and I've seen a couple of big shifts. 256 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:06.160 Right. The first is the role is starting earlier and earlier in the 257 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:10.720 organization's life. Right. A big question that start up CEO space is whom 258 00:18:10.759 --> 00:18:14.069 they should hire first in the marketing team, and it used to be a 259 00:18:14.349 --> 00:18:17.150 no brain. It used to be that the Manjine, manager or director who 260 00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:21.710 could start running events and campaigns quickly for the company. Right. But I'm 261 00:18:21.789 --> 00:18:26.700 starting to see product marketing managers and directors being brought in as the first marketing 262 00:18:26.740 --> 00:18:30.059 higher and I think this is happening for a number of reasons. The first 263 00:18:30.140 --> 00:18:34.259 one, like I said, you know getting product markets fifth is critical for 264 00:18:34.380 --> 00:18:38.579 the company and very often, you know, founders start with product market frint 265 00:18:38.579 --> 00:18:44.250 hypothesis, that you start with a set of belief that if you have a 266 00:18:44.329 --> 00:18:48.130 specific product and a specific message and positioning, customers will buy it. But 267 00:18:48.250 --> 00:18:52.410 you need to feel test this hypothesis and quickly coos correct or messaging, positioning 268 00:18:52.529 --> 00:18:56.640 and so on and evolve the story based on feedback. This is product marketers 269 00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:00.920 coo strength, right and one of the other big challenges or changes in marketing 270 00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:06.480 is that customers want to do their research and get educated on a space and 271 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:10.430 the different vendors before they start engaging with companies for serious being. Right. 272 00:19:10.509 --> 00:19:14.710 Yeah, so let's less and less of this kind of cold outreach and more 273 00:19:14.789 --> 00:19:18.309 and more of putting good content out there, having a solid website, having 274 00:19:18.390 --> 00:19:22.509 consistent message that people wanting to learn more about you can engage with. Right, 275 00:19:22.630 --> 00:19:27.019 and this is again something where product marketers essentially can help you build that 276 00:19:27.099 --> 00:19:32.380 consistent voice of who you are so that you can amplify your grand grand presents 277 00:19:32.380 --> 00:19:36.460 later. So again, you start with a lot of marketing activities. You 278 00:19:36.500 --> 00:19:40.009 know, one thing that you know as a wepy of marketing, I keep 279 00:19:40.049 --> 00:19:42.930 thinking about is at what point do I need to bring in a role internally 280 00:19:42.970 --> 00:19:48.089 versus using working with contractors and consultants? Right? In my experience, the 281 00:19:48.210 --> 00:19:53.039 function that I found hardest to outsource is essentially product marketing, right, because 282 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:56.799 it's so close to what the company is about that you need to have someone 283 00:19:56.839 --> 00:20:02.000 in product marketing who can start building that story. It is essentially defining the 284 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:06.240 identity of the company as seen from outside. Right now, the other big 285 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:08.910 shift that I've seen as product marketing as an exact, leable function. Companies 286 00:20:08.910 --> 00:20:15.190 are hiring VPS and SV piece of product marketing as opposed to a lower level 287 00:20:15.230 --> 00:20:18.069 function. Earlier it used to cap out a direct or senior director, and 288 00:20:18.150 --> 00:20:21.700 then that rolled up into a VP of marketing or VP of product. Now 289 00:20:21.779 --> 00:20:26.539 you're starting to see product marketing having higher and higher level positions in the organization, 290 00:20:26.619 --> 00:20:29.380 even at the exact level, right. Yeah, and this is again 291 00:20:29.420 --> 00:20:33.740 because product marketing is seen in the fullest sense of that way, which is, 292 00:20:33.019 --> 00:20:37.490 you know, understanding all the different pieces of product marketing, the roles 293 00:20:37.490 --> 00:20:41.410 as an evangelinary school, which a strategistill as an execution arm for go to 294 00:20:41.529 --> 00:20:44.529 market. Right. So I think that is one big shift that has happened, 295 00:20:44.569 --> 00:20:48.769 which is understanding the full sense of what product marketing needs. Now Product 296 00:20:48.809 --> 00:20:52.200 Marketing, of course, has two sister organizations or sister functions. One is 297 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:56.200 product management, that they are technical marketing. Right. One thing that I 298 00:20:56.279 --> 00:21:02.880 have seen organizations, the good ones, do is actually offer rotations between these 299 00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:07.390 three, because a good product marketer can do the things that are required for 300 00:21:07.470 --> 00:21:11.029 product management and vice versa. And now this can be a controversial position. 301 00:21:11.190 --> 00:21:15.509 But if you do it right, you have product marketers who understand what it 302 00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:18.140 takes to build a product in all the product management role as well as to 303 00:21:18.299 --> 00:21:23.700 get down into the technology and really explain the technical details. So product technical 304 00:21:25.339 --> 00:21:30.819 product management, technical marketing and product marketing have kind of a rotation function where 305 00:21:30.819 --> 00:21:33.329 a person can kind of go through those three different roles and, you know, 306 00:21:33.410 --> 00:21:37.930 essentially learned all the aspects of building and bringing a product to market. 307 00:21:38.369 --> 00:21:42.569 Okay, my best question is is it's again a maybe a wide of when 308 00:21:42.730 --> 00:21:47.839 one, but it's for your experience. Without what would be the the main 309 00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:52.039 advice you would gives to any product markets? Are Listening to our conversation today? 310 00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:56.359 Sure, so, get into the mind of the customer. Never lose 311 00:21:56.599 --> 00:22:00.559 that touch with the customer, right, because the moment you do that, 312 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:03.589 every other function that is depending on you for kind of the Voice of the 313 00:22:03.670 --> 00:22:08.829 customer loses out right. So find a way to stay connected with the customer 314 00:22:10.269 --> 00:22:12.750 and keep it real, right. So you could customers on a regular basis 315 00:22:14.029 --> 00:22:17.740 and think about how they will engage with the stuff that you put out there, 316 00:22:17.900 --> 00:22:22.140 right, be it programs, with anything else. And Product Marketer owns 317 00:22:22.259 --> 00:22:25.579 more than they are directly, you know, found responsible for, in the 318 00:22:25.619 --> 00:22:30.009 sense that they have to think of themselves as business leaders, as function agnostic 319 00:22:30.130 --> 00:22:34.009 leaders, and do what needs doing right. That means working with sales, 320 00:22:34.130 --> 00:22:38.849 working with marketing, working with product, working with customer success, cross the 321 00:22:38.890 --> 00:22:42.089 board, working across all these to do what he's doing right. If, 322 00:22:42.130 --> 00:22:45.319 like you, see your role in the sense that you're responsible for a lot 323 00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:48.880 of things, but it's not that you're going to actually go into all the 324 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:52.440 things that you're responsible for. You have to work through people and with people 325 00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:56.319 to make it happen. Yeah, so true. It's true testament for four 326 00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:02.190 leadership skills. Very that getting getting thanks dance for Asost or always a tough 327 00:23:02.269 --> 00:23:04.750 one. I agree. I think that is that is really where the magic 328 00:23:04.829 --> 00:23:07.789 happens to the any and I agree with your fair I think you're right. 329 00:23:07.869 --> 00:23:12.859 You know, you probably you probably in a transition where where we see product 330 00:23:12.940 --> 00:23:18.940 marketing becoming more and more important. I think it's particularly coming pre dominant in 331 00:23:18.019 --> 00:23:22.339 els space, which say you are security, because in that space you've got 332 00:23:22.420 --> 00:23:27.009 one more competition. So I think people, probably our company is probably a 333 00:23:27.049 --> 00:23:33.849 few years back, at less requirement to really on thud the Frenchiet ought really 334 00:23:33.930 --> 00:23:36.970 on those on the mind of the prospect and they could have thought to probably 335 00:23:37.009 --> 00:23:41.240 be successful without without really good getting into the brain of that perspect of that 336 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:45.400 and users. And I think nice completely different. And I think really, 337 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:51.599 I think the companies why quick with the best product marketing team as well as 338 00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:52.720 the best sells seem and you know, as you said, all those function 339 00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:56.069 and that's independent from each other. I need to have people who can execute 340 00:23:56.069 --> 00:24:00.789 a wrong product marketing. But I think the companies why equipping themselves with a 341 00:24:00.869 --> 00:24:06.950 strong product marketing team, probably creating itself in the in a better position. 342 00:24:07.349 --> 00:24:11.019 And and also the rest commentary mains that, you know, through congustion, 343 00:24:11.059 --> 00:24:15.500 riving to them kind of kind of thinking about some of the marketing leaders that 344 00:24:15.660 --> 00:24:18.660 we know and some of our clients and and I do believe that most of 345 00:24:18.819 --> 00:24:25.250 the most of the the successful CMOS or the cell you'll seems, the people 346 00:24:25.289 --> 00:24:26.769 I can kind of pick up the right company and do the right things. 347 00:24:27.089 --> 00:24:30.450 I three the people want us on the product very well and people are able 348 00:24:30.529 --> 00:24:34.609 to pitch the product that they could pitch the product potentially to a technical person 349 00:24:34.730 --> 00:24:40.119 as well as a sea level person. You had play you to be the 350 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:42.319 media drop. This is particularly to be to be there. You know you're 351 00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:48.559 selling, especially be the big high tech where understanding the product is kind of 352 00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:52.150 critical to really understand how to communicate at the customer kind it's not just brand 353 00:24:52.670 --> 00:24:56.029 message. So yeah, now agree with you. Well, I want you 354 00:24:56.069 --> 00:25:00.630 to thank you today so for for your all your insights. Mean I really 355 00:25:00.670 --> 00:25:04.190 appreciate you to be the time, as discussion is supposed to be a we 356 00:25:04.269 --> 00:25:07.460 don't know if it's a that's surely they all let the US at some of 357 00:25:07.579 --> 00:25:11.380 the some of some of our clans are walking bus going on the with because 358 00:25:11.460 --> 00:25:15.420 today, but not different bodies working. But I do appreciate you youtube the 359 00:25:15.539 --> 00:25:21.099 time to to come in today and discuss pet marketing with US and already and 360 00:25:21.099 --> 00:25:26.130 raid the conversation. Now, if everyone wants to follow up on the toptic 361 00:25:26.210 --> 00:25:30.049 today, discuss with you, fells, or even speak about Obsidian, which 362 00:25:30.049 --> 00:25:33.250 we were the best way to get in touch with you. Yeah, you 363 00:25:33.369 --> 00:25:37.079 can reach out to me on Linkedin on twitter. My handle on twitter is 364 00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:41.440 Sada Shrine Buston. You can also connect with obsidy on twitter at Obsidian sect. 365 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:45.599 That's one off. Well, again, many, many second for your 366 00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:48.640 time today's with that, it was great to have under shore. Thanks for 367 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:53.470 having me on the PODCAST. operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for 368 00:25:53.589 --> 00:26:00.869 technology companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams 369 00:26:00.950 --> 00:26:04.740 inhouse has existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus, 370 00:26:04.980 --> 00:26:11.500 agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales. 371 00:26:12.140 --> 00:26:18.650 See How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've 372 00:26:18.730 --> 00:26:23.369 been listening to BEDB revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, 373 00:26:23.650 --> 00:26:27.369 subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much 374 00:26:27.369 --> 00:26:29.970 for listening. Until next time.

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