67: What Exactly Does a Product Marketer Do? w/ Suda Srinivasan

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:08.349 You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executives stay 2 00:00:08.390 --> 00:00:12.189 on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into 3 00:00:12.189 --> 00:00:16.829 the show. Hi, welcome to be to be a revenue acceleration. My 4 00:00:16.870 --> 00:00:20.109 Name is opinion. With you and I'm here today. We stood out Strini, 5 00:00:20.109 --> 00:00:23.219 vest and VP marketing at obsidian. How are you doing today's at a 6 00:00:23.660 --> 00:00:27.219 Hi Alien, I'm doing great, for pleasure to speak with you. Absolutely 7 00:00:27.260 --> 00:00:30.219 well. Thank you very much for coming on the PODCAST. To the appreciates 8 00:00:30.219 --> 00:00:34.259 its remember and day in lots of places in the world, so I appreciate 9 00:00:34.420 --> 00:00:38.009 you took the time to drive yourself into your fie to the podcast with us, 10 00:00:38.250 --> 00:00:42.409 and today we will be talking about the many hats of a product marketer. 11 00:00:42.890 --> 00:00:46.490 But before we get started, it would be very useful today you could 12 00:00:46.530 --> 00:00:50.759 give a brief introduction to your company, Obsidian, as well as yourself and 13 00:00:50.920 --> 00:00:54.359 what you been between the past. Basically, yeah, my name is Soda. 14 00:00:54.719 --> 00:00:59.799 I run marketing at obsidian security. OBSIDIAN is a cyber security company located 15 00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:06.150 in Orange County, California. We help organizations protect their staff and loud services 16 00:01:06.709 --> 00:01:11.069 from a count take over insider threat and some of the new thread tractors in 17 00:01:11.109 --> 00:01:14.989 the cloud. But we offered a fast platform, and a fast platform continuously 18 00:01:15.269 --> 00:01:22.180 monitors and analyzes access entitlements and activity in your cloud applications like sales force, 19 00:01:22.340 --> 00:01:26.900 g sweet box, drop box, etc. It collects the data, normalizes 20 00:01:26.939 --> 00:01:32.219 the data across the cut platforms and whiches it and gives you consolidated visibility into 21 00:01:32.260 --> 00:01:37.209 risks and threats at the user level, organization level and application level, as 22 00:01:37.290 --> 00:01:40.489 well as flagging for a security hygiene in the cloud. So as still, 23 00:01:40.569 --> 00:01:45.170 our solution is in a new space called loud detection and response, just like 24 00:01:45.450 --> 00:01:49.239 endpoint detection and response or Edr. Solutions like route strike and carbon black give 25 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:55.560 you a visibility into what's happening on your user as endpoint devices like mobile devices 26 00:01:55.599 --> 00:02:00.959 and laptops. I'm city and less security teams continuously monitor activity and detect, 27 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:05.189 investigate and respond to security incidents in the cloud. So the company was founded 28 00:02:05.269 --> 00:02:10.110 by Industry Veterans from Silance, Carbon Black and the NSA. Before of city 29 00:02:10.150 --> 00:02:14.830 and I was the VP of marketing and bed at domeline security. You may 30 00:02:14.870 --> 00:02:17.740 have heard of them. You mine was in the cloud security and compliance management 31 00:02:17.780 --> 00:02:23.539 space. The company was acquired by checkpoint last year. It stuff. So 32 00:02:23.900 --> 00:02:27.180 you know, I do gets off from your introdiction as you come from a 33 00:02:27.300 --> 00:02:30.689 product marketing background, but it was a very busy question. What exactly does 34 00:02:30.729 --> 00:02:36.129 a product market do in a B Tob Tech Company? That's a great question. 35 00:02:36.169 --> 00:02:38.930 Or Alien. So that's right, I come from a BB product marketing 36 00:02:38.969 --> 00:02:43.490 background. I started my career as an engineer, then spend a few years 37 00:02:43.530 --> 00:02:46.919 and management consulting. When I returned to an operational role, I it wasn't 38 00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:52.960 product marketing. So product marketing is a set of activities involved in bringing a 39 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:57.560 product to market and ensuring its commercial success, because I say come marcial, 40 00:02:57.599 --> 00:03:00.669 because that's very often the objective of building a new product. As you can 41 00:03:00.710 --> 00:03:05.069 imagine, you know, product marketing, the set of activities, is critical 42 00:03:05.150 --> 00:03:09.110 to a company success. Now, product marketing as a separate function or role 43 00:03:09.389 --> 00:03:13.860 in an organization is more recent. Right, this is the product marketer, 44 00:03:14.379 --> 00:03:20.340 and a product marketer is responsible for developing and coordinating the execution of the go 45 00:03:20.500 --> 00:03:23.020 to market strategy for the company's product. Right. So what exactly does a 46 00:03:23.099 --> 00:03:28.810 product marketer really own? Product Marketer owns the go to market plan, right, 47 00:03:28.889 --> 00:03:31.810 just as a product manager, owns the product requirements document. Of the 48 00:03:31.889 --> 00:03:36.849 RD product marketer owns the go to market plan. So what does that mean? 49 00:03:37.490 --> 00:03:40.479 Product Marketer is responsible for doing a whole bunch of different things, identifying 50 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:46.719 and articulating who the target customer is, the type of organizations, the roles 51 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:51.879 and persona of the people involved in buying and using the solution, and then 52 00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:55.229 understanding what their specific needs are. Right. So, figuring out what the 53 00:03:55.349 --> 00:04:01.030 buyers and users need and developing positioning and messaging for the product that helps the 54 00:04:01.150 --> 00:04:06.430 target buyers understand how the product makes their life better. Right EXA. This, 55 00:04:06.550 --> 00:04:11.699 in essence, is the messaging and positioning. Product Marketer also defines how 56 00:04:11.780 --> 00:04:15.460 the company is going to reach these target customers, right, so developing pricing 57 00:04:15.539 --> 00:04:19.339 and packaging, identifying the channels that the company is going to use and enabling 58 00:04:19.540 --> 00:04:24.769 sales channel teams to reach the customer and sell to them. Right out of 59 00:04:24.889 --> 00:04:29.449 product marketers role was also understanding the comparative landscape in which the product exists. 60 00:04:29.569 --> 00:04:33.529 Right which solutions are likely to be seen as competitors or substitutes for the product, 61 00:04:33.930 --> 00:04:36.290 one good option being, you know, do it yourself or kind of 62 00:04:36.329 --> 00:04:43.240 homecooked solutions, also being able to articulate what the benefits of your solution are 63 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:47.920 versus others. Right now, product marketers also act as evangelists and public spokes 64 00:04:47.959 --> 00:04:53.550 people in talking about the value proposition in the right way to different audiences, 65 00:04:53.709 --> 00:04:58.430 right, being analysts or the press or customers. So they speak in executive 66 00:04:58.470 --> 00:05:01.470 briefing, stiled events, conferences, right in blogs, right in columns and 67 00:05:01.509 --> 00:05:04.550 so on. So, as you can tell, some of these activities are 68 00:05:04.670 --> 00:05:10.259 tied to the process along bringing a product to market and they happen before the 69 00:05:10.339 --> 00:05:14.660 product is launched, right yeah, while others that tie to driving adoption of 70 00:05:14.779 --> 00:05:19.579 the product or service after launch. Okay, so product marketer owns the go 71 00:05:19.699 --> 00:05:24.250 to market or GDM plan. Now it's important to realize that ownership does not 72 00:05:24.449 --> 00:05:28.290 mean that he or she does all the tasks associated with executing the plan. 73 00:05:28.569 --> 00:05:32.290 Right, of product marketer is the quarterback for product commercialization. That means, 74 00:05:32.449 --> 00:05:35.959 you know, it might mean working with the executive team on positioning, working 75 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:41.040 with sales and on enablement and channel strategy and so on. Right, so 76 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:44.560 that's a lot of teamwork involved here. So a big part of the role 77 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:48.800 is coordinating and communicating so that everyone is on the same page about this plan. 78 00:05:49.269 --> 00:05:54.910 Yeah, and what's the involvement of product marketing with this sea CEO and 79 00:05:54.990 --> 00:05:58.790 the technique or that? We spoke about free launge and first lounge and I 80 00:05:58.829 --> 00:06:02.589 would expect the first launch to be probably a bit more a certain marketing relationship, 81 00:06:02.670 --> 00:06:08.500 marketing in the the commercial sense of the work. But twitch points would 82 00:06:08.500 --> 00:06:12.100 you increase the river of interaction with a technique quality, because it will be 83 00:06:12.860 --> 00:06:15.379 as a product marketing you need to be closer to the technique or team and 84 00:06:15.459 --> 00:06:18.089 on Tho. Something exactly they in now is that it's not just about the 85 00:06:18.930 --> 00:06:23.769 customers and the aid of a message. is also probably sometimes about getting into 86 00:06:23.810 --> 00:06:27.970 the grass of things absolutely right, and the product marketer needs to have an 87 00:06:28.050 --> 00:06:32.199 intimate understanding of both the space and of the specific technologies of the company is 88 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:36.639 building. So I think the involvement with the CTEO and the product team starts 89 00:06:36.759 --> 00:06:42.519 early light from kind of creating the shared view of what the market looks like 90 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:45.959 and the product that the company is building to go after this market. Right. 91 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:49.470 So the CTEO, the product management team and product marketing need to be 92 00:06:49.589 --> 00:06:55.269 on the same page about how the world looks outside, what the specific problems 93 00:06:55.310 --> 00:07:00.189 are the customers have and what the company is building to save all those problems. 94 00:07:00.230 --> 00:07:02.740 Right. So that start early and part of what the product marketing team 95 00:07:02.819 --> 00:07:08.300 does there is bring that outside in view. For the CTEOS and product management 96 00:07:08.339 --> 00:07:12.779 teaks are doing analysis of the market, understanding what the big trends are and 97 00:07:12.980 --> 00:07:15.970 essentially framing that in a way that the company can consume. Let mean that 98 00:07:16.089 --> 00:07:19.889 you've got to take to two type of communication you've got. You've got to 99 00:07:20.009 --> 00:07:26.370 think about one vision and where product marketer will be focusing on end user and 100 00:07:26.490 --> 00:07:30.160 how to communicate within user and creating content for them. We Sitra, but 101 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:35.120 but also the role of an internal communicator in between sales, marketing, products, 102 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:40.560 technical and potentially pursers as well. You have tried. Yes, you 103 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:44.240 nailed it. So big part of this is external communication. is how the 104 00:07:44.350 --> 00:07:46.910 company and product are perceived by the world, and that is that is very 105 00:07:46.990 --> 00:07:50.910 often what people see as the role of marketing or product marketing. But the 106 00:07:50.990 --> 00:07:56.870 flip side of this is just building internal cohesion and a coordinating the efforts of 107 00:07:57.029 --> 00:08:01.100 the different team and making sure that everyone understands, everyone has a consistent view 108 00:08:01.100 --> 00:08:05.980 of what the outside world looks like and what the company is building. Right. 109 00:08:05.980 --> 00:08:09.420 So the big part of what you're doing is also communicating internally so that 110 00:08:09.540 --> 00:08:13.449 everyone's on the same page, right. And and this has to happen. 111 00:08:13.449 --> 00:08:16.490 It's an ongoing process because, you know, plans change. You come up 112 00:08:16.490 --> 00:08:20.930 with product market and a hypothesis, product market for hypothesis, and then you 113 00:08:22.009 --> 00:08:24.050 need to kind of work with that plan and everyone, as especially as the 114 00:08:24.129 --> 00:08:30.199 company grows, want to make sure that sales, marketing, product, cteos 115 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:33.679 office are all aligned in terms of, you know, what it is the 116 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:37.080 company selling, what is the market look like? What is the story that 117 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:39.440 you want to be a telling customers, right, because consistency is key in 118 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:43.950 this. So absolutely just as important. Yeah, you're to tell us some 119 00:08:45.110 --> 00:08:50.470 stories internally and Expialis, but building the cultures were so probably a strong pillar 120 00:08:50.549 --> 00:08:54.429 of the culture. What would you say are the main challenges of the role 121 00:08:54.980 --> 00:08:58.379 as so, I'm sure so wide open question because it may depend on the 122 00:08:58.460 --> 00:09:01.740 type of company you are working for and everything. But if you are to 123 00:09:01.860 --> 00:09:07.259 send them up and in a few sentences, what would you say the main 124 00:09:07.299 --> 00:09:11.129 changes of product marketers noways in in today's markets? That is a great question, 125 00:09:11.289 --> 00:09:15.570 right I think one of the things that product marketers have to realize, 126 00:09:15.649 --> 00:09:18.970 and company as all that realizes, that product marketing is a leverage function. 127 00:09:20.409 --> 00:09:24.559 What I mean by that is product marketers own the goat market plan, but 128 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:28.039 like product management, product manager, for example, figures out what the what 129 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:33.720 the company should be building, the specific set of features that customers need and 130 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:37.399 will pay for. Product Manager owns the PRD and coordinates execution, but doesn't 131 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:41.429 product manager actually build a product? Know, you have engineering for that. 132 00:09:41.750 --> 00:09:46.950 So similarly, a product marketing person is responsible for coordinating the execution of the 133 00:09:46.029 --> 00:09:50.549 Bato market plan, but this usually happens through the efforts of other teams. 134 00:09:50.750 --> 00:09:56.419 So product marketer has to understand that their role is quarterbacking, but does not 135 00:09:56.580 --> 00:09:58.019 mean that they have to carry the ball every time. Right. They have 136 00:09:58.139 --> 00:10:03.059 to basically work with sales, work with marketing, work through product management to 137 00:10:03.379 --> 00:10:07.529 execute things right. And so it's essentially a role that involved ownership, but 138 00:10:07.649 --> 00:10:13.250 not necessarily the authority to go and do things right. It's a function that 139 00:10:13.409 --> 00:10:16.690 that work best through others in the organization as well, and so understanding that 140 00:10:16.970 --> 00:10:22.639 just keep and essentially having its also a relatively new role, right, having 141 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:26.960 a person who's responsibly for this. It's a relatively new thing in organizations. 142 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:31.360 So very often there is not a common view of what exactly product marketing should 143 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:35.149 be doing right now. This is something that that you see time and again, 144 00:10:35.309 --> 00:10:41.070 where the organizations typically look at product marketing as the if the role is 145 00:10:41.149 --> 00:10:46.230 usually usually more narrowly defined. Right, in these companies, a product marketers 146 00:10:46.269 --> 00:10:48.750 essentially a content creator writing. Why? That was SIS. That's what they 147 00:10:48.830 --> 00:10:52.700 means that. That's why I was leading with my questions. That's sometimes I 148 00:10:52.779 --> 00:10:56.500 think there is a confusion between contents. You know, even some things the 149 00:10:56.659 --> 00:11:01.460 generation, which I think he said it's completely different ward, but the thing 150 00:11:01.539 --> 00:11:05.409 you you send me up in a perfect way. Yeah, so seeming product 151 00:11:05.450 --> 00:11:09.610 marketing role is very narrowly defined in the sense that people think they're essentially content 152 00:11:09.730 --> 00:11:13.889 creators writing white papers. theyreciate revocation to go on and you can see white 153 00:11:13.929 --> 00:11:16.809 product marketing is associated with this, right, because sales and marketing teams need 154 00:11:16.970 --> 00:11:22.320 good content and it is a tactical, immediate need in many companies, and 155 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:26.320 very often product marketers are the only folks in the company that are tasked with 156 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:30.759 creating product content. So the product marketers of course need to have strong communication 157 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:33.950 skills, both with them and Burbo. But if your company is seen product 158 00:11:33.990 --> 00:11:39.110 marketers purely as content creators, you are not using the function in a smart 159 00:11:39.149 --> 00:11:41.909 way. Right. A product marketer where's many, many hats, or product 160 00:11:41.909 --> 00:11:46.259 marketers a strategist? You or she's an evangelist and advisor to sales and marketing 161 00:11:46.539 --> 00:11:50.019 and in general, a business problem solver, like six a person. So 162 00:11:50.620 --> 00:11:56.460 product marketers, the good ones, see themselves as business owners and will do 163 00:11:56.659 --> 00:12:00.580 any and everything needed to make the product commercial success. Right. And so 164 00:12:01.340 --> 00:12:05.690 the CEO down have to look at this function as this kind of broaduct role 165 00:12:05.250 --> 00:12:11.169 of problem solving and thought and product commercialization rather than just content create yeah, 166 00:12:11.210 --> 00:12:13.649 that makes that makes perfect sense. So that's what you would say. The 167 00:12:13.730 --> 00:12:18.879 difference between a good product market to a great product marketer is actually someone we 168 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:24.840 managed to get that that sort of strategy outlook on things rather than just going 169 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:28.799 to do the details of the product. Yeah, so that is that's definitely 170 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:31.389 a question I've thought about a lot, I think. I think that is 171 00:12:31.549 --> 00:12:35.350 one the starting point. Right, product marketers are essentially product owners. They 172 00:12:35.389 --> 00:12:41.590 have to think like function agnostic leaders and they essentially do what needs doing right, 173 00:12:41.669 --> 00:12:46.340 building bridges across the organization. Problem Solving. So you work with sales 174 00:12:46.379 --> 00:12:50.259 and marketing to identify bottlenecks in the sales process and shorten them one by one. 175 00:12:50.340 --> 00:12:54.659 Right. That's product market is. Should be thinking it is where is, 176 00:12:54.860 --> 00:12:58.970 what is what is causing delays in the sales process, what is causing 177 00:12:58.049 --> 00:13:03.450 limited success in terms of customers discovering the solution, and then go and solve 178 00:13:03.529 --> 00:13:05.129 that one by one. That is what a product market is should be thinking 179 00:13:05.169 --> 00:13:09.169 about. Now, the best product marketers that I've seen can really get into 180 00:13:09.210 --> 00:13:15.240 the mind of the customer and understand their needs and pains and speak their language 181 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:18.240 right, so they recognize that their function really starts with the customers. Now, 182 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:22.240 when you see that messaging is done right, it really doesn't sound like 183 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:26.759 marketing came up with it. Like very often you hear a customers distances, 184 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:30.549 we say that was just a bunch of marketing fluff. Yeah, I the 185 00:13:30.750 --> 00:13:35.230 problem with that is when there's a disconnect between how the product marketers speaks and 186 00:13:35.309 --> 00:13:39.909 communicates the value and what the customers see the world as. Right, if 187 00:13:39.950 --> 00:13:43.179 a product marketer is grounded in their customers reality, they will be able to 188 00:13:43.259 --> 00:13:48.820 articulate what a product says and does in a way that feels authentic and were 189 00:13:48.259 --> 00:13:52.059 right. Affest way to do this, I found, is to build a 190 00:13:52.179 --> 00:13:56.049 personal connection with customers, speak with customers in a regular basis, start kind 191 00:13:56.090 --> 00:14:00.129 of talking to them about their problems, so that you're not sitting in an 192 00:14:00.169 --> 00:14:01.809 ivory tower. There's one other thought, which is you know, you said 193 00:14:03.009 --> 00:14:05.049 product marketers have to be strategic. There is, I would say, product 194 00:14:05.090 --> 00:14:09.000 marketers need to have mental flexibility, right, the ability to zoom in, 195 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:15.000 zoom out, gets super tactical and think about specific collateral, specific content, 196 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:18.559 specific programs that will help customers at different points of a biased journey, but 197 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:22.799 also zoom out and understand how the strategic landscape is shifting. Right, for 198 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:26.629 example, if a comparitor bought a company, what does that mean for you? 199 00:14:26.950 --> 00:14:31.149 Right? How do analysts define the space that you are in and how 200 00:14:31.230 --> 00:14:35.230 is that you evolving? So there is this kind of mental acrobatics of, 201 00:14:35.590 --> 00:14:39.460 you know, one meeting you're sitting and talking about specific programs, collateral and 202 00:14:39.580 --> 00:14:41.700 so on. The very next meeting you could be sitting and talking about, 203 00:14:43.019 --> 00:14:45.620 you know, where should the company be headed? Most? More broadly, 204 00:14:45.659 --> 00:14:48.539 most of us the house, the space evolving, right, what's happened to 205 00:14:48.580 --> 00:14:52.299 the competitive landscape and so on? Right, so this requires that you kind 206 00:14:52.340 --> 00:14:54.649 of keep a singer on the pulse of the industry, stay Internet with what's 207 00:14:54.690 --> 00:14:58.090 happening. What are you doing, what a competitors doing, what another is 208 00:14:58.129 --> 00:15:01.970 talking about? What the POT leaders? What the people that are kind of 209 00:15:03.129 --> 00:15:09.679 guiding and shaping customers buying decisions and identifying patterns from your own industry, from 210 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:11.360 the past, as well as from other industries. Right, so this is 211 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:16.240 the pattern matching is something that essentially like business wisdom, right, and you 212 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:20.320 develop that, I experience and with, you know, enough reading and exposure 213 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:24.549 to the to the world out there. Yeah, thanks, that makes perfect 214 00:15:24.549 --> 00:15:28.070 sense. So it's almost the question of as an internel product marketer, you 215 00:15:28.110 --> 00:15:33.309 would almost benefits from having experience of having been on and user at some point 216 00:15:33.350 --> 00:15:35.500 in your life too. Really on those on that wall, because at the 217 00:15:35.500 --> 00:15:39.980 end of the day, if I'm if I'm transcripting, what will saying, 218 00:15:39.100 --> 00:15:43.379 what I appreciation you've got to make generality is because you need to market, 219 00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:48.059 so you need to to appeal to just when individual but groups of individuals. 220 00:15:48.419 --> 00:15:52.210 But it's really about gets you on the the skin of your end user, 221 00:15:52.409 --> 00:15:54.850 on, though, some doubt, challenges, as well as potentially madge that 222 00:15:56.009 --> 00:15:58.690 up with your competition and everything. So source on those, on the option 223 00:15:58.769 --> 00:16:02.210 that they've got is a tright that is right. I mean you have to 224 00:16:02.409 --> 00:16:07.039 really get under the skin off your customers understand how they think about making the 225 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:11.240 buying decision. Right, I mean, who are the first of all, 226 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:14.279 how do they think about the space? Do they have the problems that we 227 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:17.720 think you can solve for them? And being able to use the right I 228 00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:21.870 mean I've seen that if you use the right terminology, if you speak about 229 00:16:21.870 --> 00:16:25.870 the problems using the words that they associate with, there is a much stronger 230 00:16:25.990 --> 00:16:30.389 connection between the message and the customers, right because they have to. These 231 00:16:30.389 --> 00:16:33.899 are terms that they use, they indy out and they're describing their problems, 232 00:16:33.940 --> 00:16:37.659 are their challenges. So essentially, you need and the ability to Mary the 233 00:16:37.740 --> 00:16:41.100 problems in those in their terms and really understand how big a problem it is 234 00:16:41.179 --> 00:16:45.019 for them. Right. Is it an urgent issue? Because, especially when 235 00:16:45.019 --> 00:16:48.649 you're talking about messaging in positioning for a start up, like one of the 236 00:16:48.690 --> 00:16:52.889 big things is you are starting with a set of hypothesis. You believe that 237 00:16:52.330 --> 00:16:56.610 you know the right messaging for the customer. But this is really where you 238 00:16:56.690 --> 00:17:00.090 know. You have to evolve the messaging very quickly based on the feedback you 239 00:17:00.210 --> 00:17:02.519 get, and the best way to do that, I found, is to 240 00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:04.720 think like the customer. And now this could mean that you spend some time 241 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:08.160 as the end user, like for us it would be the sea sours organization, 242 00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:12.279 or you essentially spent enough time with them that you learn through us, 243 00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:15.910 Moss, like you, internal life the messaging, and this is this, 244 00:17:17.069 --> 00:17:19.630 this comes with, you know, exposure and again, spending time in their 245 00:17:19.710 --> 00:17:23.190 shoes. Of course, of course not that. On the some completely and 246 00:17:23.670 --> 00:17:26.869 it seems to me that do, and I think you mentioned that on on 247 00:17:26.990 --> 00:17:32.059 the conversation. Do Rod is kind of new or the role is evolving. 248 00:17:32.220 --> 00:17:34.740 So can you take us through a which you believe or what's your sound on 249 00:17:34.819 --> 00:17:38.180 the shifts of the role in the last few years? I was thinking, 250 00:17:38.339 --> 00:17:41.740 for ex involving off and also what I mean interesting on something from you is 251 00:17:41.859 --> 00:17:45.250 what you seing the road is going. The best is one single words, 252 00:17:45.289 --> 00:17:48.809 using the road is going. Would you would you? Would you say that 253 00:17:49.490 --> 00:17:53.369 for the marketing should have a seat at the bulbs? That's a great question. 254 00:17:53.410 --> 00:17:57.250 Again, I think product marketing has has evolved quite a bit in the 255 00:17:57.329 --> 00:18:02.519 time that I've been in product marketing and I've seen a couple of big shifts. 256 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:06.160 Right. The first is the role is starting earlier and earlier in the 257 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:10.720 organization's life. Right. A big question that start up CEO space is whom 258 00:18:10.759 --> 00:18:14.069 they should hire first in the marketing team, and it used to be a 259 00:18:14.349 --> 00:18:17.150 no brain. It used to be that the Manjine, manager or director who 260 00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:21.710 could start running events and campaigns quickly for the company. Right. But I'm 261 00:18:21.789 --> 00:18:26.700 starting to see product marketing managers and directors being brought in as the first marketing 262 00:18:26.740 --> 00:18:30.059 higher and I think this is happening for a number of reasons. The first 263 00:18:30.140 --> 00:18:34.259 one, like I said, you know getting product markets fifth is critical for 264 00:18:34.380 --> 00:18:38.579 the company and very often, you know, founders start with product market frint 265 00:18:38.579 --> 00:18:44.250 hypothesis, that you start with a set of belief that if you have a 266 00:18:44.329 --> 00:18:48.130 specific product and a specific message and positioning, customers will buy it. But 267 00:18:48.250 --> 00:18:52.410 you need to feel test this hypothesis and quickly coos correct or messaging, positioning 268 00:18:52.529 --> 00:18:56.640 and so on and evolve the story based on feedback. This is product marketers 269 00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:00.920 coo strength, right and one of the other big challenges or changes in marketing 270 00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:06.480 is that customers want to do their research and get educated on a space and 271 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:10.430 the different vendors before they start engaging with companies for serious being. Right. 272 00:19:10.509 --> 00:19:14.710 Yeah, so let's less and less of this kind of cold outreach and more 273 00:19:14.789 --> 00:19:18.309 and more of putting good content out there, having a solid website, having 274 00:19:18.390 --> 00:19:22.509 consistent message that people wanting to learn more about you can engage with. Right, 275 00:19:22.630 --> 00:19:27.019 and this is again something where product marketers essentially can help you build that 276 00:19:27.099 --> 00:19:32.380 consistent voice of who you are so that you can amplify your grand grand presents 277 00:19:32.380 --> 00:19:36.460 later. So again, you start with a lot of marketing activities. You 278 00:19:36.500 --> 00:19:40.009 know, one thing that you know as a wepy of marketing, I keep 279 00:19:40.049 --> 00:19:42.930 thinking about is at what point do I need to bring in a role internally 280 00:19:42.970 --> 00:19:48.089 versus using working with contractors and consultants? Right? In my experience, the 281 00:19:48.210 --> 00:19:53.039 function that I found hardest to outsource is essentially product marketing, right, because 282 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:56.799 it's so close to what the company is about that you need to have someone 283 00:19:56.839 --> 00:20:02.000 in product marketing who can start building that story. It is essentially defining the 284 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:06.240 identity of the company as seen from outside. Right now, the other big 285 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:08.910 shift that I've seen as product marketing as an exact, leable function. Companies 286 00:20:08.910 --> 00:20:15.190 are hiring VPS and SV piece of product marketing as opposed to a lower level 287 00:20:15.230 --> 00:20:18.069 function. Earlier it used to cap out a direct or senior director, and 288 00:20:18.150 --> 00:20:21.700 then that rolled up into a VP of marketing or VP of product. Now 289 00:20:21.779 --> 00:20:26.539 you're starting to see product marketing having higher and higher level positions in the organization, 290 00:20:26.619 --> 00:20:29.380 even at the exact level, right. Yeah, and this is again 291 00:20:29.420 --> 00:20:33.740 because product marketing is seen in the fullest sense of that way, which is, 292 00:20:33.019 --> 00:20:37.490 you know, understanding all the different pieces of product marketing, the roles 293 00:20:37.490 --> 00:20:41.410 as an evangelinary school, which a strategistill as an execution arm for go to 294 00:20:41.529 --> 00:20:44.529 market. Right. So I think that is one big shift that has happened, 295 00:20:44.569 --> 00:20:48.769 which is understanding the full sense of what product marketing needs. Now Product 296 00:20:48.809 --> 00:20:52.200 Marketing, of course, has two sister organizations or sister functions. One is 297 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:56.200 product management, that they are technical marketing. Right. One thing that I 298 00:20:56.279 --> 00:21:02.880 have seen organizations, the good ones, do is actually offer rotations between these 299 00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:07.390 three, because a good product marketer can do the things that are required for 300 00:21:07.470 --> 00:21:11.029 product management and vice versa. And now this can be a controversial position. 301 00:21:11.190 --> 00:21:15.509 But if you do it right, you have product marketers who understand what it 302 00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:18.140 takes to build a product in all the product management role as well as to 303 00:21:18.299 --> 00:21:23.700 get down into the technology and really explain the technical details. So product technical 304 00:21:25.339 --> 00:21:30.819 product management, technical marketing and product marketing have kind of a rotation function where 305 00:21:30.819 --> 00:21:33.329 a person can kind of go through those three different roles and, you know, 306 00:21:33.410 --> 00:21:37.930 essentially learned all the aspects of building and bringing a product to market. 307 00:21:38.369 --> 00:21:42.569 Okay, my best question is is it's again a maybe a wide of when 308 00:21:42.730 --> 00:21:47.839 one, but it's for your experience. Without what would be the the main 309 00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:52.039 advice you would gives to any product markets? Are Listening to our conversation today? 310 00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:56.359 Sure, so, get into the mind of the customer. Never lose 311 00:21:56.599 --> 00:22:00.559 that touch with the customer, right, because the moment you do that, 312 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:03.589 every other function that is depending on you for kind of the Voice of the 313 00:22:03.670 --> 00:22:08.829 customer loses out right. So find a way to stay connected with the customer 314 00:22:10.269 --> 00:22:12.750 and keep it real, right. So you could customers on a regular basis 315 00:22:14.029 --> 00:22:17.740 and think about how they will engage with the stuff that you put out there, 316 00:22:17.900 --> 00:22:22.140 right, be it programs, with anything else. And Product Marketer owns 317 00:22:22.259 --> 00:22:25.579 more than they are directly, you know, found responsible for, in the 318 00:22:25.619 --> 00:22:30.009 sense that they have to think of themselves as business leaders, as function agnostic 319 00:22:30.130 --> 00:22:34.009 leaders, and do what needs doing right. That means working with sales, 320 00:22:34.130 --> 00:22:38.849 working with marketing, working with product, working with customer success, cross the 321 00:22:38.890 --> 00:22:42.089 board, working across all these to do what he's doing right. If, 322 00:22:42.130 --> 00:22:45.319 like you, see your role in the sense that you're responsible for a lot 323 00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:48.880 of things, but it's not that you're going to actually go into all the 324 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:52.440 things that you're responsible for. You have to work through people and with people 325 00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:56.319 to make it happen. Yeah, so true. It's true testament for four 326 00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:02.190 leadership skills. Very that getting getting thanks dance for Asost or always a tough 327 00:23:02.269 --> 00:23:04.750 one. I agree. I think that is that is really where the magic 328 00:23:04.829 --> 00:23:07.789 happens to the any and I agree with your fair I think you're right. 329 00:23:07.869 --> 00:23:12.859 You know, you probably you probably in a transition where where we see product 330 00:23:12.940 --> 00:23:18.940 marketing becoming more and more important. I think it's particularly coming pre dominant in 331 00:23:18.019 --> 00:23:22.339 els space, which say you are security, because in that space you've got 332 00:23:22.420 --> 00:23:27.009 one more competition. So I think people, probably our company is probably a 333 00:23:27.049 --> 00:23:33.849 few years back, at less requirement to really on thud the Frenchiet ought really 334 00:23:33.930 --> 00:23:36.970 on those on the mind of the prospect and they could have thought to probably 335 00:23:37.009 --> 00:23:41.240 be successful without without really good getting into the brain of that perspect of that 336 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:45.400 and users. And I think nice completely different. And I think really, 337 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:51.599 I think the companies why quick with the best product marketing team as well as 338 00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:52.720 the best sells seem and you know, as you said, all those function 339 00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:56.069 and that's independent from each other. I need to have people who can execute 340 00:23:56.069 --> 00:24:00.789 a wrong product marketing. But I think the companies why equipping themselves with a 341 00:24:00.869 --> 00:24:06.950 strong product marketing team, probably creating itself in the in a better position. 342 00:24:07.349 --> 00:24:11.019 And and also the rest commentary mains that, you know, through congustion, 343 00:24:11.059 --> 00:24:15.500 riving to them kind of kind of thinking about some of the marketing leaders that 344 00:24:15.660 --> 00:24:18.660 we know and some of our clients and and I do believe that most of 345 00:24:18.819 --> 00:24:25.250 the most of the the successful CMOS or the cell you'll seems, the people 346 00:24:25.289 --> 00:24:26.769 I can kind of pick up the right company and do the right things. 347 00:24:27.089 --> 00:24:30.450 I three the people want us on the product very well and people are able 348 00:24:30.529 --> 00:24:34.609 to pitch the product that they could pitch the product potentially to a technical person 349 00:24:34.730 --> 00:24:40.119 as well as a sea level person. You had play you to be the 350 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:42.319 media drop. This is particularly to be to be there. You know you're 351 00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:48.559 selling, especially be the big high tech where understanding the product is kind of 352 00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:52.150 critical to really understand how to communicate at the customer kind it's not just brand 353 00:24:52.670 --> 00:24:56.029 message. So yeah, now agree with you. Well, I want you 354 00:24:56.069 --> 00:25:00.630 to thank you today so for for your all your insights. Mean I really 355 00:25:00.670 --> 00:25:04.190 appreciate you to be the time, as discussion is supposed to be a we 356 00:25:04.269 --> 00:25:07.460 don't know if it's a that's surely they all let the US at some of 357 00:25:07.579 --> 00:25:11.380 the some of some of our clans are walking bus going on the with because 358 00:25:11.460 --> 00:25:15.420 today, but not different bodies working. But I do appreciate you youtube the 359 00:25:15.539 --> 00:25:21.099 time to to come in today and discuss pet marketing with US and already and 360 00:25:21.099 --> 00:25:26.130 raid the conversation. Now, if everyone wants to follow up on the toptic 361 00:25:26.210 --> 00:25:30.049 today, discuss with you, fells, or even speak about Obsidian, which 362 00:25:30.049 --> 00:25:33.250 we were the best way to get in touch with you. Yeah, you 363 00:25:33.369 --> 00:25:37.079 can reach out to me on Linkedin on twitter. My handle on twitter is 364 00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:41.440 Sada Shrine Buston. You can also connect with obsidy on twitter at Obsidian sect. 365 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:45.599 That's one off. Well, again, many, many second for your 366 00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:48.640 time today's with that, it was great to have under shore. Thanks for 367 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:53.470 having me on the PODCAST. operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for 368 00:25:53.589 --> 00:26:00.869 technology companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams 369 00:26:00.950 --> 00:26:04.740 inhouse has existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus, 370 00:26:04.980 --> 00:26:11.500 agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales. 371 00:26:12.140 --> 00:26:18.650 See How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've 372 00:26:18.730 --> 00:26:23.369 been listening to BEDB revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, 373 00:26:23.650 --> 00:26:27.369 subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much 374 00:26:27.369 --> 00:26:29.970 for listening. Until next time.