7: How To Hire Team Members That Fit Your Culture w/ Ludi Martin

August 08, 2018 00:22:04
7: How To Hire Team Members That Fit Your Culture w/ Ludi Martin
B2B Revenue Acceleration
7: How To Hire Team Members That Fit Your Culture w/ Ludi Martin

Aug 08 2018 | 00:22:04

/

Show Notes

Hiring the right people can make or break your organization.

But hiring on technical skills alone is an outdated way of thinking.

Ludi Martin is a EMEA Talent Acquisition Consultant at Cyber Business Resource, and her job is to deliver industry experienced talent. She comes from seven years experience in talent acquisition working with major security vendors and system integrators.

She combines her expertise and experience to bring people to teams with the right cultural fit.  In this episode of B2B Revenue Acceleration, we speak with Ludi about getting in the right hiring mindset, coachable employees, and the importance of prioritizing cultural fit.

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Episode Transcript

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:04.120 The moneytoring sintive is very important, but Canni days, nowadays, they want 2 00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:06.519 a little bit more than that. They want to see future. You know, 3 00:00:06.559 --> 00:00:12.830 we talked about careers, not jobs anymore. You're listening to BB revenue 4 00:00:12.869 --> 00:00:18.149 acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay on the cutting edge of sales 5 00:00:18.230 --> 00:00:24.019 and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome 6 00:00:24.059 --> 00:00:27.300 to be to be a Roman your acceleration or earlier with you, and may 7 00:00:27.379 --> 00:00:31.899 guess, today is lady Martin from Saber Business Resource. How are you today? 8 00:00:31.940 --> 00:00:33.939 To Day, I'm really, really good. Thank you. How are 9 00:00:33.939 --> 00:00:37.329 you? Very good. Thank you very, very good. So today, 10 00:00:37.369 --> 00:00:41.130 today we wanted to speak about quite an interesting topic because I think this is 11 00:00:41.170 --> 00:00:46.049 slightly your friend from the type of resourcing or recruitment conversation at with good and 12 00:00:46.130 --> 00:00:50.840 that, to pic, is higher character train skills. And before we go 13 00:00:50.920 --> 00:00:55.159 into too much details or explain that the content or the purpose of the conversation 14 00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:58.479 today, can you please give us a little bit more backgrounders by yourself and 15 00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:03.479 Saber Business Resourcing, please? Yes, of course. So, cyber business 16 00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:07.549 resource is a sister company of Cyber Business Growth that was created by Jennie Murphy, 17 00:01:07.950 --> 00:01:11.310 I'm sure you know and understand you had a podcast as well, obviously 18 00:01:12.469 --> 00:01:19.500 before. It is perfect timing. So cyber business resource is a consulting organization. 19 00:01:19.939 --> 00:01:26.819 We deliver industry experience talents. So my background in particular, I come 20 00:01:26.939 --> 00:01:33.930 from about seven years experience in talent acquisition functions. I have worked for major 21 00:01:33.969 --> 00:01:41.290 security vendors and system integrators and basically are now combined in my own experience and 22 00:01:41.450 --> 00:01:46.250 the the experience of the consultants part of Cyber Business Resource and cyber business growth 23 00:01:46.650 --> 00:01:51.799 to deliver consulting services in security space. Okay. So in terms of services 24 00:01:51.920 --> 00:01:55.680 that we deliver as part of Cyber Business Resource, you know we're talking about 25 00:01:56.079 --> 00:02:02.590 contingency recruitment, retained searches, talent acquisition as a service or pure consulting to 26 00:02:02.709 --> 00:02:08.110 help, you know, organizations build talent attraction strategies. Okay, to help 27 00:02:08.550 --> 00:02:13.270 effectively bring the right people on board with the rights, you know, cultural 28 00:02:13.310 --> 00:02:16.819 feel absolutely that makes perfect sense. So I just wanted to dive into the 29 00:02:17.099 --> 00:02:21.740 topic of the conversation today. We know that what it comes to Sab or 30 00:02:21.780 --> 00:02:23.580 security, but also some mos our domain and I think it's be to be 31 00:02:23.699 --> 00:02:29.020 software serves in general, there is a big shortage in term of skills, 32 00:02:29.060 --> 00:02:31.770 and I don't know if it's because there is not enough sales people or technical 33 00:02:31.889 --> 00:02:36.689 people, are marketing people, or simply because there is too many technology companies 34 00:02:36.729 --> 00:02:40.689 that are coming about. But we often spoke about investing in people's worth, 35 00:02:40.770 --> 00:02:45.280 the right attribute, the right character, rather than people who already, you 36 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:49.000 know, plug and play. So people who work the experience and and people 37 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:52.759 we would have the right skill set to get going. Based on your experience, 38 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:57.039 do you believe that it's a ring people based on that person any year 39 00:02:57.159 --> 00:03:00.949 and the way they interact, of that character, rather than based on their 40 00:03:00.310 --> 00:03:06.349 niqual skiers and experience? I would say, I would hundred percent degree that 41 00:03:06.389 --> 00:03:08.830 it's worth hiring people based, you know, on their personality, character, 42 00:03:09.310 --> 00:03:13.180 they're actually utes, and their hunger, yeah, versus, you know, 43 00:03:13.300 --> 00:03:15.580 their skill set, because I think that there's number of skills that you can 44 00:03:15.659 --> 00:03:19.900 learn anyway every day. I mean, you know, you and I, 45 00:03:20.139 --> 00:03:23.939 we learned something new every day for each and everybody does. However, you 46 00:03:23.060 --> 00:03:27.020 know, you don't really learn to be hungry for something to be driven. 47 00:03:27.569 --> 00:03:30.330 So skills, in my view, can always be improved and experience and knowledge. 48 00:03:30.370 --> 00:03:35.370 You know, it's great, but that appetite to learn and to progress, 49 00:03:35.729 --> 00:03:38.210 in my view, is paramount. Chut so in a lot of instances, 50 00:03:38.250 --> 00:03:42.280 and I see every day, you know my function, people only higher 51 00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:45.599 on experience. So say, for example, if they're done, if, 52 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:49.800 as such, candidate doesn't have x or y type of experience, I don't 53 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:53.000 even want to see them shut and you touched on it. You know there's 54 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:55.110 there's a skill shortage, you know, in the industry, in BTB, 55 00:03:55.389 --> 00:04:00.229 you know, software and in security in particular. That's definitely my bag. 56 00:04:00.789 --> 00:04:04.550 It's a huge market. There's loads of companies out there and everybody's pretty much 57 00:04:04.550 --> 00:04:09.030 fishing in the same pond and it's that the pond is not getting bigger. 58 00:04:09.030 --> 00:04:14.219 Ye, therefore, in my view, hiring solely on experience is a little 59 00:04:14.340 --> 00:04:18.660 shortsighted and certainly not scalable. Okay, looking only at at a skill set 60 00:04:19.019 --> 00:04:21.220 is not going to be enough, you know, for a company to meet 61 00:04:21.620 --> 00:04:25.689 the growth. You know that their objectives in as far as how much they 62 00:04:25.769 --> 00:04:30.449 want to grow. So the mindset is slowly shifting, you know. We 63 00:04:30.529 --> 00:04:32.410 can see. I speak to a lot more managers now that, you know 64 00:04:32.490 --> 00:04:36.810 are interested in a little bit more than the cold hard skills, but not 65 00:04:36.930 --> 00:04:41.199 enough in my viewing. Okay, I think they're still progressed to be made, 66 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:45.120 but when a position where companies don't necessarily have the choice, it will 67 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:46.600 have to happen anywhere, because there is a eno of correct but he is 68 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:50.120 not enough people skilled. So I would you get those skills up to speed? 69 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:54.389 I guess it would be, because the concept of what you're talking strubting, 70 00:04:54.389 --> 00:04:57.870 I completely agree with you. Do the way we recruited operatics is we 71 00:04:57.949 --> 00:05:00.790 contruly recruit based on skills, because what we do is really specific. I 72 00:05:00.870 --> 00:05:05.029 don't think we see any competitors full in the same methodology as all. So 73 00:05:05.149 --> 00:05:10.339 we can of need to build our people more them into operatics kind of, 74 00:05:10.420 --> 00:05:13.939 you know, methodology. So we're really big on my ring, the the 75 00:05:13.980 --> 00:05:17.180 kind of mindset, the characters of the type of individual, rather than looking 76 00:05:17.180 --> 00:05:20.689 at the CV or looking at that past experience. These are important, greateria 77 00:05:20.730 --> 00:05:25.449 and sometimes a plus, but we can just bank on that. However, 78 00:05:26.050 --> 00:05:30.290 we sometimes many difficult to get people up to up to speed and develop their 79 00:05:30.370 --> 00:05:32.730 skill set. So do you guys have a process you go through? Do 80 00:05:32.810 --> 00:05:35.680 you have a time frame that you can share with us or just give us 81 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:40.160 a little bit of information about how you see it happening and and the sort 82 00:05:40.199 --> 00:05:43.519 of pain frame you would take to get someone up to speed. Okay, 83 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:46.160 well, I think it's a two weeight process. You know, you can. 84 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:50.509 I think it's you can ascertain someone's up tid and hunger and willing willingness 85 00:05:50.629 --> 00:05:55.550 to join an organized tion like like yours. Yeah, I think it's also 86 00:05:55.629 --> 00:06:00.230 very easy to work out who is right after that's probably easier and the other 87 00:06:00.269 --> 00:06:01.870 way around. So you can easily, more easily, I would say, 88 00:06:01.910 --> 00:06:05.019 crossoft. You know people are they they that's just not going to work out 89 00:06:05.180 --> 00:06:09.899 culturally. In terms of process, you know what, as I said, 90 00:06:09.899 --> 00:06:12.939 you know it's a two way street, so you know what's in it for 91 00:06:13.100 --> 00:06:15.620 them as well as what's in it for you, and looking at solely what 92 00:06:15.779 --> 00:06:19.410 the candidate is going to bring to your organization is not enough. You know, 93 00:06:19.449 --> 00:06:23.569 you need to demonstrate and be able to articulate. Okay, so, 94 00:06:23.889 --> 00:06:26.410 if you were to join, you know, our company, this is what 95 00:06:26.490 --> 00:06:29.410 it's going to look like. You know, this is the evidence we've got 96 00:06:29.649 --> 00:06:33.720 of coaching people, of developing yeah, such hiring manager has hired x many 97 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:36.480 people and now look at where these people are. Exactly what we do. 98 00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:41.199 So from wold, from within gross within exact money, and be able to 99 00:06:41.319 --> 00:06:45.399 demonstrate that and articulate that as a message to the candidate, because that makes 100 00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:47.509 it, you know, a great value proposition. Yeah, not just well, 101 00:06:47.589 --> 00:06:53.629 obviously you know the monitorings and tio is very important, but canidates nowadays 102 00:06:53.709 --> 00:06:56.110 they want a little bit more than that. They want to see, you 103 00:06:56.230 --> 00:06:58.750 know, a future. You know we're talking about careers, not jobs anymore, 104 00:06:58.990 --> 00:07:01.180 and being able to you know, to articulate that in that message is 105 00:07:01.579 --> 00:07:04.339 this is it sounds like you're doing all you know, all the right things, 106 00:07:04.540 --> 00:07:08.459 but you can't put time on it. You know, it's up to 107 00:07:09.019 --> 00:07:13.300 you know what your organization needs to do as well and to achieve you build, 108 00:07:13.420 --> 00:07:15.769 you know their progression, you know towards that to achieve whatever goal you 109 00:07:16.209 --> 00:07:19.250 need to achieve. So it's trill your tallenge management process. For us, 110 00:07:19.329 --> 00:07:23.649 about on dust, on the thing. It's almost like a reverse process. 111 00:07:23.689 --> 00:07:26.209 Voice. So Care Rael like that person. I think they've got the right 112 00:07:26.329 --> 00:07:29.569 mindset, they've got the writer teacher, they would fit very well with the 113 00:07:29.689 --> 00:07:33.279 culture. But maybe are the skills that are missing and then you would almost 114 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:36.439 help them to feel the gap on the skill sets. Okay, that makes 115 00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:40.560 sense. And and what would you as as another tricky question, I guess, 116 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:43.639 but one of the fine interestings, I would what would be the main 117 00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:46.910 characteristic? What you think are the main and I don't know if we should 118 00:07:46.949 --> 00:07:49.790 call them characteristic, I don't know if we should call them qualities, but 119 00:07:50.430 --> 00:07:55.829 what is the most important trait of character that you think we should look at 120 00:07:55.870 --> 00:07:59.779 when our in someone? Okay, in my view, beyond, you know, 121 00:08:00.220 --> 00:08:03.660 track records, you know, and evidence of success, because that's kind 122 00:08:03.699 --> 00:08:07.420 of, you know, obvious, how they learn and whether they are coachable. 123 00:08:07.579 --> 00:08:13.689 Yeah, so coachability is the number one trait that filing we talk about 124 00:08:13.810 --> 00:08:16.529 every day with us a number one. We always say, do they have 125 00:08:16.610 --> 00:08:20.009 a sponge or do they have a stone between their heirs? If they've got 126 00:08:20.089 --> 00:08:22.889 a spawns, we can carry on the conversation. If they've got a stone, 127 00:08:22.290 --> 00:08:24.769 while that's going to be difficult because we can do anything with them. 128 00:08:24.850 --> 00:08:28.240 They will know better than you. They will know better than you, they 129 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:31.879 wan't want to know. Absolutely think, absolutely so these two traits. You 130 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:35.000 know that for me to appetite to learn and how they go about learning and 131 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:37.639 how they go about in improving themselves? Can they articulate, you know, 132 00:08:37.879 --> 00:08:41.590 what what journey they want to be on? You know what they want to 133 00:08:41.629 --> 00:08:45.509 achieve out of their next move? Just INEM I'm sorry to interrupt you, 134 00:08:45.509 --> 00:08:48.389 because it's very interesting topic and we always ask the we we are being as 135 00:08:48.549 --> 00:08:52.509 ask the question, sorry, of how would you assess the coachability? So 136 00:08:52.590 --> 00:08:54.820 do you have a technique to assess it? I mean, we've got twice, 137 00:08:54.860 --> 00:08:58.299 so I'll tell you the details of it, but I would you go 138 00:08:58.500 --> 00:09:01.580 about it for more senior role, you know, because obviously I'll tell you 139 00:09:01.620 --> 00:09:03.940 about the way we go about it. We do a role play, you 140 00:09:03.980 --> 00:09:07.700 know, will do okay, les, let's put ourselves into a cell situation. 141 00:09:07.899 --> 00:09:11.330 Here you are trying to get, I don't know, a meeting with 142 00:09:11.409 --> 00:09:13.450 me, or you're trying to close a deal with me. I am the 143 00:09:13.529 --> 00:09:16.570 prospect. There you go, we start and after that we just sell cat, 144 00:09:16.649 --> 00:09:20.210 or you think you did. And if this was I think I've done 145 00:09:20.250 --> 00:09:22.049 very well. I think I was excelled. Wow, that's not go chimble. 146 00:09:22.169 --> 00:09:24.759 Yeah, is this a well, I think I've done well, but 147 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:28.000 some points I think I may have lost a little bit of your attention and 148 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.159 you know I'd like to get your feedback because it's very difficult to put me 149 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:35.519 in those pot etc. Etc. That's much more coachable if someone was looking 150 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:37.870 for feedback, someone wants to listen to the feedback that you've gotten, someone 151 00:09:37.870 --> 00:09:41.590 who wants to almost have that that sort of near effect. But how would 152 00:09:41.629 --> 00:09:46.789 you go about it when it's a more strategic role, when you can't really 153 00:09:46.870 --> 00:09:48.309 just pull a role play with someone who's got, you know, twenty five 154 00:09:48.350 --> 00:09:54.340 yours experience in marketing cells or selves engineering? I guess obviously you like example, 155 00:09:54.419 --> 00:09:56.940 is great in terms of new life, example. You know you can 156 00:09:56.059 --> 00:10:00.940 see straight away, yeah, that you know they they'll be right or not, 157 00:10:01.220 --> 00:10:05.340 and nothing that's that's great. For more experienced roles you can't do quite 158 00:10:05.340 --> 00:10:09.450 exactly the same, but it's not through you know, it's a few questions 159 00:10:09.570 --> 00:10:13.970 that you assess that coachability is throughout a recruiting process. So the most senior 160 00:10:13.009 --> 00:10:16.490 the role, you'd expect there will be more than one step. So that 161 00:10:16.529 --> 00:10:20.250 would be the different. Absolutely you know that the process you were talking about. 162 00:10:20.370 --> 00:10:22.799 Therefore, you can ascertain just how the approach to conversation you know, 163 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:26.960 are they asking questions? Are they interested? Are they asking for your feedback? 164 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:30.480 What do you think? You know, how do I rank, you 165 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:33.960 know, in your view, in your experience? Are they interesting in knowing, 166 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:37.029 you know, feedback on their own selbsolutely and for me, for me 167 00:10:37.110 --> 00:10:39.830 that's great. That's a great tick in the box. You know someone that 168 00:10:41.029 --> 00:10:43.110 just wants, you know, feedback, and I can actually take it and 169 00:10:43.230 --> 00:10:46.789 I should. I interest in the conversation, that interest in the position. 170 00:10:48.070 --> 00:10:50.539 So yeah, it's Max Sense and also willingness to do something better and to 171 00:10:50.620 --> 00:10:54.179 improve, which is, you know, basically pretty they do want to learn 172 00:10:54.179 --> 00:10:58.259 about how to do it. Therefore, you know, that's a great coach, 173 00:10:58.419 --> 00:11:01.740 coachability kind of piece that we can well can uncover here. But but 174 00:11:01.820 --> 00:11:05.610 yeah, there's no magic recipe and fortunately, kind of fuction of feeling and 175 00:11:05.649 --> 00:11:11.250 askin question, ascitating astame goes by and through the process to so much a 176 00:11:11.289 --> 00:11:15.169 bit they dive got a much ready to the art to receive the feedback. 177 00:11:15.210 --> 00:11:18.370 So, coming back to my original question, because I kind of interrupted, 178 00:11:18.409 --> 00:11:20.960 you're going to bit excited about that on sir, because it's important to us, 179 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:26.799 but he's on yours. A main qualities, our main trait of characters 180 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:30.480 we discuss about from the culchability that you think are absolutely key and things that 181 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:33.629 we should all be looking for in the in the recruitment process. Well, 182 00:11:33.909 --> 00:11:39.870 for me that's definitely paramount. But also, you know, consistency and great 183 00:11:39.710 --> 00:11:43.830 so in roles like in sales positions, you know, you need to have 184 00:11:43.070 --> 00:11:48.379 that resilience. Yeah, and that's a quality that you need to have. 185 00:11:48.460 --> 00:11:50.340 Ad Need to have that, you know, in any role, if a 186 00:11:50.379 --> 00:11:54.500 special the level or you know or the you know, the function you're in 187 00:11:54.940 --> 00:12:01.379 or the level of seniority. Demonstrate that consistency and that great through challenges. 188 00:12:01.570 --> 00:12:03.529 You know what you have done, how did you do it? And you 189 00:12:03.610 --> 00:12:09.289 can also gage on the coachability aspect through those questions to so you know what 190 00:12:09.490 --> 00:12:13.490 mistakes, what challenging have they gone? Have they come through? What they 191 00:12:13.529 --> 00:12:16.320 do, what did they learn about it? What did that teach them and 192 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:22.120 how they applied it, you know, in new scenario today. So yeah, 193 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:24.799 so it's a it's a combination. It's not it's not easy. You 194 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:28.320 know, I think it's it's actually what we find for self. We find 195 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:33.029 it more difficult Wi people who were limited past experience. You almost need to 196 00:12:33.110 --> 00:12:37.429 find that great or to find that pass ever, and so you'll just peep 197 00:12:37.470 --> 00:12:41.149 what full on the floor, stand up, does that shoulder and carry on 198 00:12:41.230 --> 00:12:45.340 a game and try again and keep on trying. Sometimes the way we assess 199 00:12:45.419 --> 00:12:48.419 it, in a very rough way, is it's about their personal life. 200 00:12:48.500 --> 00:12:52.539 You know, if they coming from a I've had a break in their life 201 00:12:52.580 --> 00:12:56.899 and that's something quite tough in their personal life at a young age of recently, 202 00:12:56.059 --> 00:13:01.090 and and I remember when day interviewing again just crashes caut he came to 203 00:13:01.169 --> 00:13:05.570 interview with seven broken ribs and I found that's really good because you know, 204 00:13:05.610 --> 00:13:07.929 I'm so well. This is the sort of attitude we want. Ninety percent 205 00:13:09.009 --> 00:13:11.129 we have court to cancel. We just came you and see anything. So 206 00:13:11.210 --> 00:13:13.600 you don't want to be interview because I really want to job up. But 207 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:18.240 they had a care crush and that's probably just that you should and again, 208 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:20.840 as you said, that grid at perseverance probably gave him the job and I 209 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:26.039 think it's really important. The other thing that he's big for us and I'm 210 00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:28.429 sure for all your clients is that cultural fits. You know, we are 211 00:13:28.710 --> 00:13:33.750 an organization, we have a DNA. I would not say that all people 212 00:13:33.830 --> 00:13:37.549 are clones. You know, we've got lots of different personalities, but we've 213 00:13:37.590 --> 00:13:41.269 got that sort of culture and it's often difficult, or what we are from 214 00:13:41.309 --> 00:13:45.860 our crimes, is difficult, to find people that share the same mindset or 215 00:13:45.899 --> 00:13:48.860 the same culture. How do you go about what? First of all, 216 00:13:48.940 --> 00:13:52.019 defining that and assisting that in the process as well, because it's also very 217 00:13:52.100 --> 00:13:56.850 difficult just through a quite yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, basically, 218 00:13:56.850 --> 00:14:03.049 without you know, that combined background in cybersecurity and having worked from within. 219 00:14:03.690 --> 00:14:07.450 You know all of our consultants. They worked in some part of the organization 220 00:14:07.490 --> 00:14:11.000 at some point, you withinside a business growth or withinside a business resource. 221 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:15.600 So that already kind of puts us in the prime position to be able to 222 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:20.080 help organizations ascertain that. Yeah, it's difficult to do from the outside when 223 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:24.000 you just know a little an idea of the organization itself, but it's really 224 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:28.350 more when you start knowing the person they actually going to hire those individuals. 225 00:14:28.710 --> 00:14:31.350 So for INS, for instance, candidates join an organization based on, you 226 00:14:31.429 --> 00:14:37.309 know, values and vision, also whether they see if those values and visions 227 00:14:37.470 --> 00:14:43.980 are being translated and lived through by the person who actually hides them's, for 228 00:14:43.059 --> 00:14:46.700 instance, in my dree it's not one way streets. You know, need 229 00:14:46.899 --> 00:14:50.100 you need to think about who is hiring and why, what we touched on 230 00:14:50.179 --> 00:14:52.330 earlier. You know, you can have a great candidate that is, you 231 00:14:52.370 --> 00:14:56.570 know, super coachable, hungry to learn how, all that grit and all 232 00:14:56.610 --> 00:15:00.250 that, all those good stuff, but if the higher manager isn't a great 233 00:15:00.250 --> 00:15:03.049 coach, then it's never going to work out. So when I speak to 234 00:15:03.090 --> 00:15:09.080 a higher manager looking for something or other, what I want to ask them 235 00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:11.120 is, okay, so what's a great bay working for you? Why should 236 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:15.679 people join your team? Absolutely, as an individual, that's a good break. 237 00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:18.960 How have you developed a team members? You know well they now you 238 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:22.950 know what is your evidence of success? And you'll find that they find it 239 00:15:22.990 --> 00:15:26.509 a very difficult conversation to have because no one necessarily ask that question and you 240 00:15:26.590 --> 00:15:31.029 can't expect that cultural fit coming just from the candidate and to work it out 241 00:15:31.070 --> 00:15:33.309 for themselves. You have to give something, and you said the scene, 242 00:15:33.710 --> 00:15:37.139 and for me this is how you can find, you know, the right 243 00:15:37.259 --> 00:15:41.580 cultural fits, but having conversations both sides and not just, you know, 244 00:15:41.740 --> 00:15:45.740 one lay sends out the candidate. You probably also get the air ring manager 245 00:15:45.820 --> 00:15:48.500 of the person who was airing to actually think a little bit more correct absolutely 246 00:15:48.659 --> 00:15:52.889 to get them to change their mind about what they're looking for. When you 247 00:15:52.009 --> 00:15:54.970 think those from this questions, because the reason why I'm asking you we we 248 00:15:56.049 --> 00:15:58.370 often as the question when we get to a process with a new client and 249 00:15:58.409 --> 00:16:02.730 we're okay, well, what's the value of spending one of what with you? 250 00:16:03.210 --> 00:16:06.120 Someone meets, meet with yourself, see what is the value and then 251 00:16:06.200 --> 00:16:07.279 tell us that you're going to give them a dim or don't tell them that. 252 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:11.600 Don't tell that you would. You would tell them more about your solutions 253 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:14.840 and because that's that's the basy. If you have to meet someone, which 254 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:17.440 is the value of spending? When I Wur with you, they also finding 255 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:22.029 difficult and in that process of thinking, often the change the way they want 256 00:16:22.070 --> 00:16:23.549 to be able. They would change the way to do the presentation or they 257 00:16:23.629 --> 00:16:27.230 would change the structure for meeting. And so what actually, maybe we should 258 00:16:27.269 --> 00:16:30.830 start with an open conversation, put lived a lopped up in the bag and 259 00:16:30.870 --> 00:16:33.779 it's only when we get to the stage of doing a demo that we take 260 00:16:33.820 --> 00:16:37.580 a lepped about and do a demo. Rather, I'm just starting and not 261 00:16:37.740 --> 00:16:41.500 really interacting and just going through some boring slaves or a demo. So do 262 00:16:41.539 --> 00:16:45.539 you have the same sort of scenario when when you as this question, and 263 00:16:45.860 --> 00:16:48.769 probably question that people are not expecting to get from you, then they change 264 00:16:48.809 --> 00:16:52.129 lately their mind time off, what they're looking for, the type of individual, 265 00:16:52.289 --> 00:16:56.250 and help you to open that sort of okay, we need to are 266 00:16:56.330 --> 00:16:59.250 the character Ros and this cute sense? Yes, yeah, absolutely, and 267 00:16:59.570 --> 00:17:03.759 you see that the conversation changes, the level of the conversation, station goes, 268 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:07.200 you know, upper level, because when you start talking about a position, 269 00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:08.799 you know it's basically shopping list. I need this, this, this 270 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:11.519 is this in this. Okay. So now let's take us step back and 271 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:15.430 look at who are you? You know who, what's your backgrounds? What's 272 00:17:15.430 --> 00:17:18.349 have you done? You know what's so great, and then you can leverage 273 00:17:18.390 --> 00:17:22.390 that. You know with the candidates standpoint. You know where they're coming from 274 00:17:22.750 --> 00:17:25.309 because again, you know, you can't work how the culture fit with a 275 00:17:25.390 --> 00:17:29.109 few questions, unfortunately. You know it has to be that you know much 276 00:17:29.150 --> 00:17:33.619 more in depth conversation, also understanding from the candidate, where you know who 277 00:17:33.779 --> 00:17:37.140 was a great boss to them? Yeah, who worked out, who got 278 00:17:37.220 --> 00:17:40.180 the best out of them? Yeah, what the they do. What did 279 00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:42.660 they say? So you were, you know, successful in that position? 280 00:17:42.700 --> 00:17:45.890 Or is it just down to you? And then we'll go back down the 281 00:17:47.410 --> 00:17:52.170 coach say exactly what reality see. So it's a it's so intelle, okay. 282 00:17:52.450 --> 00:17:55.849 Always it down to what the entire Ange you did and made you young, 283 00:17:55.930 --> 00:18:00.519 made you do certain things that made your success. So you'll find it's 284 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:03.319 a very into far more interesting conversation than just, you know, putting down 285 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:07.680 the list of job skills and whatever. Let's question. I have good for 286 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:11.279 his again, maybe a bit of a tricky one, and I will ask 287 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:14.910 you far an opinion rather than a fact. But from your perspective, what 288 00:18:15.029 --> 00:18:18.829 walks to best? With be the manager that can teach the skills and mentor 289 00:18:19.269 --> 00:18:22.710 and Really Walk Together, always their team, or will be more like the 290 00:18:22.789 --> 00:18:27.779 manager had let the people at the recruity just be, and then maybe you'll 291 00:18:27.819 --> 00:18:32.420 be not be distant, but a bit more. They are being recruited, 292 00:18:32.460 --> 00:18:34.259 they are probably paid a lot of money, but Scali for the your job 293 00:18:34.299 --> 00:18:37.579 and the most senior one. So let them be and let them do that 294 00:18:37.700 --> 00:18:41.769 stuff. So which one do you see being the most successful? I'm not 295 00:18:41.809 --> 00:18:45.730 talking about macro management of or being very you known, toup of people and 296 00:18:45.809 --> 00:18:48.769 too much. I'm talking more about the person's wants to spend a lot of 297 00:18:48.890 --> 00:18:51.890 time. So, in a sense, is the manager, would say to 298 00:18:51.930 --> 00:18:53.369 you to that question, but with a love from you. And Yeah, 299 00:18:53.369 --> 00:18:56.759 I've lots of people exeter except right, and I'm really on top of my 300 00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:00.440 team and I will speak to them every day and I will want to know 301 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:03.880 exactly what's happening and I want to be very close to them. More successful 302 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:06.680 the person is a bit more decent. And so actually my management style is 303 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:10.069 and that people do getch up with them once a week. Don't want to 304 00:19:10.109 --> 00:19:11.670 have too many interaction. Don't want to be in their way. I don't 305 00:19:11.670 --> 00:19:15.509 think neither is the excess for approach. Which is the best one? Well, 306 00:19:15.549 --> 00:19:18.589 it's a combination of both. Okay, you know, you can't. 307 00:19:18.950 --> 00:19:22.430 It depends who you're hiring. You know, if you hire on experience again, 308 00:19:22.509 --> 00:19:26.059 which is what we covered earlier, then that experience comes at a price 309 00:19:26.180 --> 00:19:30.779 tag. Therefore, there's an expectation that the person will be able to go 310 00:19:30.980 --> 00:19:33.700 and do their own thing. But you really would expect at least yeah, 311 00:19:33.700 --> 00:19:37.740 you you would expect that, but at the same time you know, is 312 00:19:37.779 --> 00:19:40.809 it enough? Is it interesting enough for someone to just, you know, 313 00:19:41.170 --> 00:19:44.609 just going and do their job? Do they would not expect, you know, 314 00:19:45.210 --> 00:19:48.529 some interaction learning from the manager? So again, you know, it 315 00:19:48.690 --> 00:19:51.769 depends what we want the outcome to be. And the same, you know, 316 00:19:51.809 --> 00:19:53.640 the other side, when you hiring less experience people, you expect they 317 00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:56.680 will need a lot of coaching and development, but not to the point where 318 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:00.799 it becomes, you know, suffocating. So I see it depending on what 319 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:06.440 the outcome needs to be. Obviously you want to be build successful teams. 320 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:08.190 I think it's a combination of both. Way You've got, you know, 321 00:20:08.509 --> 00:20:11.869 if you're not hiring experienced people, you need to be on top of what's 322 00:20:11.910 --> 00:20:17.349 happening, but at the same time let people, let people be absolutely successful, 323 00:20:17.390 --> 00:20:22.059 you know, of their own back kind of that's consistent to wasting cronization, 324 00:20:22.180 --> 00:20:23.019 I guess. With people, and you, you, you as the 325 00:20:23.140 --> 00:20:26.819 a ring manager, you need to adapt to almost to the mentality and the 326 00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:32.099 requirement and the way of working of the people you're recruit okay, that makes 327 00:20:32.299 --> 00:20:34.099 a lot of time. I'm really enjoid the conversation to then. Thank you 328 00:20:34.140 --> 00:20:37.250 very much for your insight. Now, if people wants to get in touch 329 00:20:37.289 --> 00:20:41.289 with you, lady. What's the best way to get in touch with Ludy 330 00:20:41.329 --> 00:20:44.130 Martin? Great? Well, I'd love that. You know, I'd love 331 00:20:44.210 --> 00:20:47.690 to hear you know from people that I listen to this podcast and want to 332 00:20:47.730 --> 00:20:51.759 get in touched with CIDER business resource. The best ways to reach out to 333 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:56.160 me personally on Linkedin, your Ludy martain or y now, Ludy dot Martin 334 00:20:56.359 --> 00:21:00.880 and Cyber Business Resourcecom, or via website three w dot side of business resourcecom. 335 00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:03.670 Okay, very, very good. Well, that's great. Thank you 336 00:21:03.710 --> 00:21:07.430 very much for a time we do today was really insightful. I really appreciate 337 00:21:07.470 --> 00:21:11.349 you take good time to meet with me and speak with me and hopefully would 338 00:21:11.349 --> 00:21:14.630 have someone's up to big to discuss. We get on in the afford shop 339 00:21:14.789 --> 00:21:17.630 right. Thanks very much for your time. Really enjoyed it. Thank you. 340 00:21:18.420 --> 00:21:26.019 operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technology companies worldwide. While 341 00:21:26.059 --> 00:21:30.500 the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhouse has existed for many 342 00:21:30.539 --> 00:21:36.970 years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus, agility and scale required 343 00:21:37.089 --> 00:21:42.450 in today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales see how operatics can help 344 00:21:42.490 --> 00:21:49.039 your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been listening to be tob revenue 345 00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:53.400 acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show 346 00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:57.519 in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next 347 00:21:57.519 --> time.

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