Episode Transcript
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Those companies right now, in two
thousand and twenty and over the next decade,
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that are focused on the mental health
of their leaders and professionals are going
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to be much more successful than their
peers in industry. You're listening to be
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tob revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated
helping software executives stay on the cutting edge
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of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi,
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welcome to be to be a revenue
acceleration. My name is Ornim,
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with you and I'm yet today with
JEM ski funder and see you at seals
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confidence. How are you today,
James? Really excited to be on the
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show. Thank you for having me. It's been an exciting start to two
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thousand and twenty. I'm really keen
to share any nuggets or insights that could
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be useful to you or your listeners. Yeah, we will take all the
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neggets well, thank you for coming
as well. So today we will be
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talking about elevating the sales profession.
But before we go into a details and
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we had take your to a pick, would you man introducing yourself as well
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as your company sells confidence in in
more detail of audience. Sure well,
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thank you again for having me.
My name is Jameski on, the CEO
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and founder of sales confidence. Our
vision is to build the world largest be
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to be sales community. So Day
to day we're focused on helping elevate the
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sales profession and helping people each stage
of their career with their performance, mindset
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and well being. I personally have
been in the sales and software industry for
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over ten years. I was very
early in a British as company called Huddle.
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I had a fantastic run there and
then I went on to join linked
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in. Linkedin was an incredible experience
for me personally and professionally, and while
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at Linkedin I was responsible for the
UK and Europe's flagship companies as well as
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for an extended period of time I
was actually the world's number one social seller
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at Linkedin. On linkedin while working
FALLINGTON. So today we're building sales confidence
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and we also have a conference called
susk growth, which is held annually on
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the eighth of July here in London. Okay, so that sounds like a
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great background. So today gems.
As I mentioned early on, we want
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to speak about elevating the sells profession
and we know that every single business needs
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sells people to be achieved, to
be able to achieve their reserves and to
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grow. But through the year,
and especially in certain industries, sales people
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have developed what they would call a
bad reputation and I think there is a
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few stereotypes and negative perceptions around around
the sense profession. Could you please share
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with us what these perceptions are and
why do you think they have organically been
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established? Great Question. So I
think as a buyer, if you've purchased
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something on the High Street in the
last five to ten years, maybe you've
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bought a mobile phone contract or you've
decided to rent a property or buy a
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property, or maybe you've been on
to buy a car. These are experiences
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as a consumer that often feel very
transactional, very fast. Possibly your pressured
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into making a quick decision because it's
a very competitive marketplace. So I think
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generally over time, as a buyer, particularly and buying consumer and goods or
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services, we've often been left disappointing
with the buyer experience. When I think
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of what I understand today is the
sales professional, and I guess I'm focused
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mainly on the be tob sales professional
and particularly within the software industry. What
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I tend to find is incredibly bright, thoughtful, caring and often very emotionally
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intelligent sales professionals who really do care
about understanding their buyer, understanding their buyers
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needs and providing the right solution at
the right stage for that individual in their
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company. So I think we have
been as a profession. We've often been
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perceived as individuals not creating great experiences
and having been organizing community events for now
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three years here in the UK and
now expanding internationally, the people I interact
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with they truly care about creating amazing
buying experiences. But I do feel like
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we've been impacted by experiences we've had
in our day to day lives and then
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that translates into the perception of what
people perceive a sales professional to be like.
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And I think if you were to
come to one of our events,
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you would certainly not recognize those negative
experiences and you would fully want to embrace
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the type of sales professional and sales
leaders that we build as part of our
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community. Okay, now that makes
sense and from your perspective again says Professional.
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Prove our value and be seen as
part of a whether would call a
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MOS strategic function. It's really important
as a sales professional to intimately understand your
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target buyer, the type of company, the type of industry that they operate
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in and the type of stage they
are at in their research. If you
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look at reports from the likes of
Linkedin or Detwo, which is the world's
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largest platform for software and reviews,
and you will understand that about sixty two,
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seventy percent of the time for a
virus spent researching their problems and researching
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solutions in the marketplace before they interact
with the professional. So the point that
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you have that first phone and conversation
or facetoface meeting, it's really, really
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important that you understand your customer and
their needs and you can only do this
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by research and to become an expert
and a trusted advisor and truly be strategic,
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and I don't mean that from simply
a language perspective, but if you
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understand the company that you're talking with, then you will be in a better
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position to advise them at that strategic
level. And what I found particularly in
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the enterprise so when I'm talking about
enterprise companies, I'm talking tenzero employee size
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company. So think about Lloyds Banking
Group here in the UK that has eightyzero
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employees, class or UNI leaver as
another example. They have thousands of people
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and often from a decisionmaking process there's
more than you know group buying this.
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So there's seven to fourteen individuals.
You can actually add a lot of value
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if you understand the different needs of
those different individuals. I think as a
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professional today we may be get an
inbounds request that information or we start the
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process with one individual we believe is
the only decision maker. And so you're
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much better multi threading, which basically
means connecting with people at different scales and
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different stages within the organization and an
understanding the organization and connecting the dots on
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behalf of that buyer. So then
when you elevate yourself and you want to
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add value strategically, you're much more
well informed. It's not good enough just
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to know your own product. Is
Not good enough just to understand the type
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of I you truly have to understand
the organization and the people that you're looking
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to advise. Okay, we know
that in a in soft to ourselves,
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and I think it's probably true in
most of the sales profession. We know
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that a large part of the earning, of the potential learning of selves people
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is based on commission and to that
extent you know the I guess you need
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to sell, you know that,
to get your money out, to make
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more money. So is there anything
that you suggest doing around commission, plan,
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around structure, so sells people become
that advisor in a way and that
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person that will, you know,
really invest time in engaging with a different
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person in those large accounts, understanding
their need, you know, and really
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trying to lead with best practices and
and technically helping the D end user in
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a way. But don't you think
that the way people are paid and the
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way commission seems to be awarded to
sells people, you know, there is
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a fundamental change that needs to happen. They're basically because you can spend some
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times educating, but truly sells people
want to sell, they want to get
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that commission. Yeah, that's absolutely
fine. I'm a huge advocate for commission
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and centralization. It's been proven and
well documented by the data that it's very
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effective. You just have to look
at a sales performance management company like exactly,
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that's been doing this for over a
decade. Now, let's just be
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clear. Making a sale and closing
a deal is an extremely positive thing to
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do as an individual within the sales
and organization as a company. Fundamentally,
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there is no single company out there
that is surviving unless their sales function is
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performing. And just the turn that
on its head slightly. It's the buyer
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that matters and it's that buyer experience
and we all love to buy. So
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there's nothing wrong with having love for
sales and closing the deal. Now,
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one we except that it is absolutely
okay to close to the other we except
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that there is a different type of
wiring from a fundamental behavior spective when you
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think about how the sales professional is
incentivives now, particular early in your career.
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So maybe you're in your first sales
role and you imagine what the world
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of a business leader, sales leader, could look like and you're probably working
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towards maybe your first fiftyzero pounds per
year and your earnings, or you know
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that kind of magic one hundred thousand
which people really enjoy hitting. I'm absolutely
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fine if you're creating value for the
buyer and you're creating value for the company
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that you work for. That you
should be rewarded from a compensation perspective and
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there are some solutions like exactly that. I can help you with that.
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What I would add to this,
and this is what I am a a
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advocate for, is sharing the rewards
of a sale beyond the sales function.
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As we all know, the most
successful sales individuals and leaders are heavily supported
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by their marketing function, customer success, product PR content. All of these
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other people in the business should be
rewarded in the success of sales. So
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for us at sales confidence, as
an example, elements of our product lines.
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So, particularly when we think about
ticket sales for our annual conference that's
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grow from the eighth of July,
every sale that is made that is not
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directly impacted by a sales professional who's
picked up the phone and closed the sale,
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the results are shared amongst everybody in
our company, even our freelancers that
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get a share of the reward,
because I deeply understands that every single individual
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in the company has an impact on
the sale. So just the recap from
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a framing perspective, let's appreciate sales, that's appreciate why they are rewarded.
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Commission and there's lots of different approaches
to optimize the efficiency of compensation planning.
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Let's not take it away from the
fact that we should be proud of sales
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and we should be proud of closing
the deal and actually we should extend the
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rewards for those individuals around the sales
organization or supporting the Sales Organization. Yeah,
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that makes Ba makes sense. Yeah, I think it's it would,
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don't move, be ideal to have
not only with the rest of the team
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because obviously you're right, the the
sales people out there the front of the
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company, the other people are going
out and seeing within user you would be
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also very unconventional but probably very interesting
for ourselves, for our company, ourselves
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function, to have a commission bland
based on the actual benefits that you're delivering
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to your customer. So basically,
has the benefits are growing technically the service
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person good get more money, which
ultimately would probably removed the beddy mage ore,
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the that pushy sells gay type of
maybe attitude that some of the some
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of the end us up in to
be speaking about. I think you know,
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if you look at net promoter score
and MPs, or you look at
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the experience of the buyer once purchase
has been made and real rewarding sales but
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also customer success or the Account Management
Team and for the continuous engagement of value
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returned in the product. I definitely
see there is value and I've seen some
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examples of that play out in companies. I think, though, there is
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just a kind of a business model
perspective on, you know, when the
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commission is paid, from a kind
of a piano perspective, and how that's
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built particularly into assess model and how
that scales over time. You know,
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I'm just explaining, I feel like. You know, the idea of rewarding
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the sales professional post sale is a
good idea, particularly around MPs. But
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I've got enough. Nothing really asked
that add to that. Okay, that
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makes sense. That makes sense.
So we know that part of your objective
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at serves confident is to elevate the
serves profession as well as to pot sales
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professionals to develop their skill and grow. That carry our bath as a as
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a successful sence person. So if
we want to go into a little bit
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more details, what are the initiatives
selves confidence as in place to support this
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shift of bus section from the markets
or from the bad sales gay to the
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good sales gay. Yeah, great
question. So the first point is is
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that we're interested in supporting salespeople were
at each stage of their career with their
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success, but in a sustainable way. So, you know, the pursuit
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purely for an objective of a hiring
calm or, you know, being number
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one is not good enough in our
community. So we're heavily, if invested
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with our membership and we just launched
our first one hundred members of last Wednesday
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actually, at one of our evening
events, and we're focused on creating experience
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where they're being edu educated, they
have access to mentorship, they have access
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to expert coaches and they have access
to people that can help accelerate their career.
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More broadly than that, it's really
important for us. You've been talking
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to daisy top man, our PR
and communications manager, and we're going to
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be telling the story of the importance
of the sales professional a lot more broadly.
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So, for example, this year
we're going to be featured in the
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sales performance report within the rack on
Teur, which is a supplement that goes
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into the times to over a million
decisionmakers in the UK, and this is
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an opportunity for us the highlight the
importance of the sales professional within the sales
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organization. Will also going to be
published across typical major mainstream and business media
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and the tech press. So there's
a lot of liquidity in the market,
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meaning there's a lot of venture capital
being invested in technical solutions and software,
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often into individuals that don't necessarily have
commercial or sales experience quite often, but
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they understand how to build a product
to solve problems and it's the similar space
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that I imagine with your own business
that you're solving in an area, creating
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leads and opportunities for these type of
founders. So we're just going to be
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telling the story more broadly, yes, within the SASS industry, and so
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you would see us a major events
like SAS stock in Dublin and SAS growth
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here in the summer and Sasta in
the US, telling the story on stage.
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But also, you know, how
can we get the BBC or mainstream
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press like the evening standard to hear
our story and understand that? You know,
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my story as well comes from a
very personal journey. You know it's
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well publicized now, but you know
I was admitted to a hospital when I
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was as twenty years old and due
to a kind of a mental health and
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diagnosed, and as a result of
that I've kind of pursued and progressed to
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understand myself and my my mindset and
how we can help people and develop.
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So I think what we're going to
be doing is telling the story and the
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narrative that sales people, like marketing
people, like product people, are any
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type of person. Are just human
beings and we care about each other like
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anybody else. And while, yes, we are rewarded more than most,
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yes, we have a significant income, we so are people, we have
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feelings, you know, we care
about each other and we want to do
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the best job that we can do. So I think if we can tell
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that story and we can focus on
the importance of the emotional intelligence, the
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importance of being selfaware, being self
aware of how your sales process or the
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sales experience is created for the buyer, we're going to be in a much
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better position to create better buyer experiences
in the marketplace. That makes sense.
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Well make my last question is,
as pretty much you know, along your
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story and some of the thing that
they've seen on a on your website gays
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about the wellness and the mental wellness
of the sales proficient. So I don't
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know. That's another thing is that
he's seen is that it seems that lots
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of people can have consider the sales
function of the dove gay. You know,
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the tough people are, are very
confident, can speaker at etc.
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But I'd like you to develop a
little bit more about, you know,
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what were you're finding in time of
mental well being being and you know Houl.
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Do you ever bought out you could
it, because it's got to be
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something that's pretty difficult to discuss as
a sens professional that you know we want
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to keep their the exerting away.
So I would you out your project to
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be. Can do you see it
the big us as something he's taking my
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mind now she has SOS confiencing in
about our big is issue. HMM,
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it's a great point. I mean, look, it's been a personal experience
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of mine that I've been impacted by
my own mental health challenges. Over the
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last ten years. I've spent time
in a mental health hospital, which is
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quite unusual to hear. You know, I guess a public figure, CEO
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and a founder. I'm speaking openly
about that. But I'm committed personally to
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raise awareness of mental health. I
mean it's been world documented now. I
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think the royals and the heads together
foundation of done an amazing job in elevating
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the awareness around mental health in the
UK. Sadly, you can look into
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social media and a daily basis,
and you were here, of the impact
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of negative mental health and individuals.
Now, from our research and also personal
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experience of being working in and leading
sales organizations over the last ten years in
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the UK, I think the sales
leader is under more pressure than most leaders
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in an organization. The reason is, especially in software, you've got venture
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capital individuals that have high expectations.
I mean an example we had Renvora,
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who is a world leading founder,
coach and runs a company called SMP,
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can munications, and he was speaking
in an event last week about founders going
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to the venture capital community and making
promises, often based on pure speculation.
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You know that their company is going
to be the next great big thing.
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Or whose responsibility is it to deliver
on the targets set by the founders and
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the venture capital community? It's the
sales leader. So the sales leader has
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the responsibility in the weight of the
world on the business objectives of the company.
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Plus he has or she has to
manage her own self doubt and pressure,
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knowing that often a sales leaders tenure
is less than eighteen months in a
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venture capped, venture capital backed business. Then he or she has the responsibility
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of, you know, the five, ten, twenty or whatever number of
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sales professionals that they must look after
in order to deliver a number. So
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there is pressure, positive pressure,
and also negative self doubt coming from all
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angles. And while you know,
a sales leader may be perceived as a
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good public speaker or in individual that
is charismatic or inspirational, and I know
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lots of analytical, introverted sales leaders, by the way. But like if
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you take the beginning of this conversation
and focus on that perception, then you
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would argue that why does a company
need to support the sales leader? Well,
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it's simply because the pressures are immense
and it doesn't matter who it is.
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You know, frankly, you know
my greater purposes to support the teacher,
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the the nurse, the care worker, the professionals that maybe don't get
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them recognition and respect and also have
their own personal challenges. I just happened
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to be a very proud sales professional
that's very proud about the profession, in
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the value that sales creates in the
world, and I just want it to
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be acknowledged that these individuals are,
like the buyer, their humans. They
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need support day to day. So
that's why, for us, you know,
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we're focused on supporting the sales professional
each stage of their career with performance,
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mindset and wellbeing, and it's that
holistic approach, which means right now,
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you know, we have the attention
of the world and sales confidence because
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there's simply not an organization out there
that's designed a business model in the way
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that we have, and you know, I'm proud of that and I'm proud
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of the fact that we are going
to be looking at for each other.
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But by extension, if you're listening
to this and maybe you just support the
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sales organization, so maybe you're in
sales operations or sales and ablement or marketing,
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you know we care about you as
well and I just feel, while
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difficult to your point about speaking about
the challenges with your own mental health,
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you just have to create safe spaces
in your organization and and give people permission
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to share. It's difficult balance and
you know I would I would tread carefully
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and I would seek advice when you
start opening up what people's personal challenges are.
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But it will completely change the culture
and the positive attitude that employees or
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extended team members have towards you as
a company and as a business if you
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invest in their mental health. It's
as simple as that. It's linked to
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performance and those companies right now,
in two thousand and twenty and over the
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next decade, that are focused on
the mental health of their leaders and professionals
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are going to be much more successful
than their peers in industry. Thanks for
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your insige, gents. We really
appreciate the say that you to detain today
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too, to share your suits with
our agience. So, if anyone wants
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to connect with you, to carry
on the conversation or pick your brain up,
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00:22:34.650 --> 00:22:37.329
what's the best way to get told
of your gems? The first thing
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00:22:37.369 --> 00:22:41.769
to do is add me on Linkedin. So Search James Ski on Linkedin and
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00:22:41.849 --> 00:22:45.799
send a personal message that you heard
us both speaking today, and then we
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00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:51.119
can look out. You can also
check us out at sales confidencecom and if
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00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:56.319
you want to come to our annual
conference on the eighth of July, which
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00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:00.710
is for sales, revenue and marketing. Leaders are old billings gate. We've
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00:23:00.710 --> 00:23:04.910
got capacity one thousand five hundred.
Leaders were flying in people from Silicon Valley.
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00:23:04.950 --> 00:23:08.509
So we've got people are Aaron Ross, is the founder of predictable revenue,
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00:23:08.869 --> 00:23:14.380
Nathan Lacqua, red and Bar Yaco, who's the founder of winning died
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00:23:14.460 --> 00:23:17.619
by design, and many other top
UK and European leaders. And if you
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00:23:17.660 --> 00:23:21.900
want to come to that actually and
you want to promote this and you send
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00:23:21.940 --> 00:23:26.730
us all of an operatis fifty code, so we give you a fifty pound
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00:23:26.769 --> 00:23:32.970
discount on any tickets if you use
the code operatis fifty. There you go.
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00:23:33.569 --> 00:23:37.849
We are that everyone operatis operatics fifty
right, correct. I will make
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00:23:37.849 --> 00:23:41.799
sure that we put that online as
well. Well. That's very that's very
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generous of you, gems. Thank
you very much for that. We definitely
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00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:48.519
did check the conference and see if
the dairy a little but we'll will try
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to put bay and say it and
supportsry in which you're are doing. So
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once again, many things for your
time today. It was an absolute pleasure
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00:23:55.869 --> 00:23:59.309
to have you on the short jobs
amazing. Thank you very much. Thank
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00:23:59.349 --> 00:24:02.990
you so to Katerina for organizing and
daisy and our side. It's been a
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00:24:03.029 --> 00:24:04.950
pleasure to be on here, and
good luck with the future. Thank you.
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operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue
generation for technology companies worldwide. While
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00:24:12.059 --> 00:24:18.500
the traditional concepts of building and managing
inside sales teams inhouse has existed for many
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00:24:18.579 --> 00:24:22.980
years, companies are struggling with a
lack of focus, agility and scale required
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00:24:23.099 --> 00:24:30.210
in today's fast and complex world of
enterprise technology sales. See How operatics can
310
00:24:30.289 --> 00:24:37.049
help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics
dotnet. You've been listening to BEDB revenue
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acceleration. To ensure that you never
miss an episode, subscribe to the show
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in your favorite podcast player. Thank
you so much for listening. Until next
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time.
