Episode Transcript
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You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay
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on the cutting edge of sales and
marketing in their industry. Let's get into
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the show. Hi, you,
welcome to be too, pure of a
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new acceleration. My name is Ali
much and I'm here today with just in
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my call, vp of cells at
you ape and although of Tq. How
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are you? Are they just in
doing well? Thanks. Yeah, another
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early morning here and in Santa Barbara, California. Yeah, work first started
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from you. So six am and
seven am are my friends. That's what
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you've got to do when you are
in California. Unfortunately, you know,
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wake up like these costs. So
today we will be talking about your new
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book, how to achieve super human
seals engagement skills. But before we can
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into that conversation, would you mind
just introducing yourself audience and and just tell
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us more about your backgrounding bit tob
cells? Yes, so, to put
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in a nutshell, I have been
in sales for twenty years, which I
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think is not too unusual. I
kind of wrote the SASS wave in two
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thousand and seven, getting into softwares
of service, and I worked for Sean
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Parker and I can nonprofit fundraising tools
company, and then I did work for
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sales force and Linkedin and then a
dozen different startups over the years, mainly
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in mobile advertising and marketing automation,
which are kind of fields that touch on
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artificial intelligence and machine learning in pretty
cool ways as it comes to predictive analytics
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and programming. Customer Journey touches right. Very exciting be to be and BTC
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space about Gosh, a few years
ago, three four years ago, they
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did an international search for kind of
one of the leading top funnel or SDR
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minds, because there was a group
of engineers that wanted to build an artificial
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intelligence that would mimic or replace prospecting. Now, if you think of dripmation.
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And so inside Salescom, which is
now z an't, they do a
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contest that to survey and the number
one guy in the world is bet was
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been Sardella at the times, the
cofound or data and so I reached out
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to well, he was working on
this stealth project and we started talking about
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these themes and we were still on
the same page with our philosophies about this.
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They flew me to San Francisco and
I was able to talk, similar
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to this podcast, for two to
three hours about all the techniques and stacks
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that I used, and so they
have decided to put me in there and
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we grew that business to about a
hundred concurrent customers and what we're doing was
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automating sales development. So we replaced
human beings. We really ended up augmenting
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and serving. You know, there
were no str as fire. Don't worry,
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we really augmented what they were doing. But we built an artificial intelligence
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level that could simulate up on prospecting
and we acquired a Swedish company that did
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personalization injection into our reach sales lups. I was running a hundred concurrent you
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know, outre sales left instances,
pulling a ton of they sent a million
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emails in the year. Try to
every stack you can imagine, and you
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know, it was part of this
effort. The company has since been acquired
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and I've since that time been a
regional vice president or vice president in AD
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tech, advertising technology companies, but
I've developed systems and principles that have given
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me the ability to have the output
of five people, ten people. Right
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outreach says a hundred people. So
I decided to put it down the book.
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Right. I decide to look at
things like, you know twenty rule
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or ways that you can figure out
how to do something one time, like
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a paper prototype, like you can
figure out how to create this amazing sequence
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of the email once and then scale
it to an entire total addressable market.
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And so that's what the books about. It's all these growth hacks, similar
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like how Max Outra there wrote on
sales at hacker and then wrote like hacking
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sales the book and explains all the
technologies my book. And if you think
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about like predictable revenue, which defines
the SDR and AE model, and the
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novelty of supply chain, like it
was a big deal in two thousand and
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eleven for Aaron Ross to say you
should have an SDR. All they do
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is open business, and then a
all they do is close business, and
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so he defined that. What I'm
defining is like the Jarvis Iron Man Suit
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in the paradigm where everything's str ae. We're all sitting here remote, there's
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no field sellers because no one can
leave their house. Everyone has at that
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bunch of technology, whether they're in
SMB and it's hub spot, or whether
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their full scale. They have outreach
or lead Iq. They have all this
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technology. They're probably not using it. They probably will over relied on events
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dinners in bounds now that even knows
there would have to at least found now
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with covid nineteen. Yeah, thank
you enough to talk that. The site
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body through wild. Yeah. So
it was just kind of rolling along and
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got a cool author with my mentor
T J Hughes, who did Combo Prospecting
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and the Joshua principle. He's had
some best selling books in Australia and I've
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worked with him. His BB profile
Linkedin is the third is three hundred fifteen
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thousand followers. So other than Jill
Conrath and Mark Henry has like this huge
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presence and we really just use this
on his label, like a Harper Collins
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or something. And then all this
stuff hit and so we cited crowdsource the
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book. We put into shared Google
Doc. We got to twentyzero words,
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not fortyzero words. Usually sales books
about sixtyzero words. And we have four
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hundred five hundred thought leaders in there, the WHO's who. These the C
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levels from all the textack technology companies. These are all the frontline wraps.
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These are all the appointment setting businesses
and everybody's gone in there, left comments,
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edited it and made sure that everything's
right in this right like how your
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deliverability, how many emails you can
send every day, how the text acts,
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talk who's been acquired. You know, it's so relevant up to the
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minute. Yeah, the issue with
releasing it in six months is all the
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tech could change because of Ma.
What I really wanted to write was like
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learning how to learn. This is
a Meta framework. You're sitting here in
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two thousand and twenty five, twenty
thirty and your job is the hunt for
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new business and you're not going to
do that single channel, single technology right
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like right now, seventy percent of
your time is administrative tasks because you're to
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figure out your crm and your dialer
and your sequencer and your email platform and
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your data sources, right. So
a lot of companies do throughout their hands
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and hire someone like it right.
Well, that for party, which is
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great, but then a lot of
companies have their own internal resources and a
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heavy, heavy investment in these technology
platforms and the adoption is super low.
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That's my thirty six thousand foot intro. I was a mouthful, okay,
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yeah, that's good, a ndable
activation, because we see I've been part
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of the of the email exchange and
and the crowd and I've not been able
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yet to contribute to it and then
show my thoughts with you. I've seen
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some people erecting very well. I've
seen some people kind of, you know,
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being a little bit more reticent.
Does the right woe, but people
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could have and is good to see
that fight of sorts and and I think
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this is what would achieve your very
good and product. But but what's the
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really motivation from your side? And
I guess reason why I'm asking you the
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question is because you could take all
that knowledge and make a fortune for yourself
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with it. So way would you
share it like that magic trick, and
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show to everyone out to do the
trick what was the was motivate? You
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should pain that. Yeah, so
I just turned forty and I actually spent
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the first ten years of my career
doing call center stuff and working in technology
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incubators. I don't know the college
degree and I use these systems to,
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you know, work all the way
up to Linkedin and sales force just by
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working super hole. I work super
hard, but I could work harder than
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the next person, because I use
technology. I was of a brother that's
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an inventor google. So like this
Stepasto runs in the family. For me,
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I am motivated to help sellers everywhere
to understand this stuff. You know,
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who knows what the future is like? I really see myself as maybe
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not the next Aaron Ross, but
somebody that is having that kind of impact
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on the technology sector when it comes
to predictions. So one of the blogs
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I wrote was called sales runner two
thousand and forty nine. I Love Blade
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runner. I've met Rector Howard.
It's like my favorite movie. Yeah,
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okay, I had the laser disc
with the alternate at ending with Edward James,
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almost in the favorite grain. At
the end of the day, you
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thinking of the future like next to
seven replicants, right? You thinking of
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two thirty five, two thousand and
fifty Thomas Toungos. You're thinking of records,
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while on the singularity, there is
a time in the mid T S.
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we're very similar to an uber self
driving car, fast moving startups.
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A round B round raised ten million
dollars. What is generated the meetings is
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pure artificial intelligence, as yours are
not gone. Sales Development Reps are analysts,
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their sales engineers, they're doing sequel
polls, they're sitting in front of
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the targeting programming. You've already seen
the companies like Bumbora like a quantcast model
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where it's possible to see anonymized surge
data, to take a Tam, a
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total addressabul market, to look at
all the accounts in an ABM or an
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accounty sales development, absd perspective and
see who is searching already for your service
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and the prioritize those. And so
systems like Xam, like inside salescom and
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talk about in the book, they're
becoming predictive. So we have these mega
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trends of, you know, the
manual calling, emailing, the person doing
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all the Admin goes away. As
technology becomes better, I think there's going
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to be a return to innocence which
I've talked about, which is that SCR
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is now our selling full time.
They're just closer to the customer. The
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technology is delivering them the leads and
the appointments and they're on the phone doing
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discovery, qualification and medic so yeah, my my intention is, you know,
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really to be the best that I
can be as a rep. it's
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not to tell people how I'm a
better rep than you. It's to empower
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you, wherever you are, to
go on this journey, Paul Walker,
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run, to fuse with your technology
stack, to accept it and absorb it.
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There's a massive battle online, social
selling versus cold calling, old school
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versys new school. But, like
I predict in my writing, it really
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doesn't matter because the jobs as we
know them right now don't exist in five
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and ten years because the technology is
so advanced. You know, it's like
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it's Bots, like high frequency training, like there's just things like drift is
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a perfect example. Drift automation.
You hit the front of the site,
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you start talking, you're not talking
to a person, you're talking to a
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preprogram artificial intelligence with decision trees.
If this in that rule's edge and it's
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crunching big data, you ask you
a question, it looks at five thousand
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answers that questions, selects and then
gives you an answer, you can't tell
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that you're talking to a robot.
Google do plex, where the phone call
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is made with natural language processing to
the restaurant to book look at dinner,
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and the person on that the set
of phone can't tell that that's an artificial
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intelligence calling them. It really hard
to give us straight answer. I don't
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know where I fit in all this. People read my book and thought of
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me is like John Connor and Skynet. They're like it's just too far out
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there, like this could be used
for evil. Right, absolutely so.
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There is one quoting in your Buddha
say we and I think you may have
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already kind of funds of that question. In a way. These book is
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about people email from the fog of
failure to instead execute at universe of the
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effectiveness. What do you think?
Sorts? People are sailing, and I
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would you see technology helping them to
succeed, because if we mentioned, like
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all tefisher intelligence and voice like robot
Foka, the outside, and I'll do
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you walking with the gas ready mentioned, but the bedality is DAB being a
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bit both, I would that the
clergy empower them, if not replace them.
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Yes, so what I realized from
the initial blog post is that this
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type of Futurism is fun and I'm
going to be interviewed by an analyst from
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forester to talk about the more distant
future. Just like we don't have flying
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cars and just like we're all in
normal oovers there's a practicality to the current
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stack. Right currently, if you're
a wrap or an STRAE and you're not
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logging into a sequencer every day,
huge opportunity because if you figured out even
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one campaign and social or one temp
that you could be taking that and expanding
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a en X. and you know
right now there's a series of tools that
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are very effective that you can basically
double triple your efforts. Now there's some
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authors that talk about ten x moonshots
and ten x rule. If you just
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send out ten times more or work
ten times harder, it's not going to
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help you. It's about first identifying
the twenty percent of your activities that are
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most effective and then doubling down on
those. And so x activity and action
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only really helps to scale you if
you're picking the right levers and the right
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effective actions. And so these systems
have analytics and the analytics are mysterious.
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Right you can send an automated campaign
and you can see the your open rates
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or thirty percent and you have fifty
replies. Well, without sentiment analysis,
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forty nine could say removed. So
I could be a very bad campaign where
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easy exact same campaign with a different
subject line could have a twenty percent,
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an open rate and five replies,
but those five replies have a high propensity.
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You can an opportunity. So you
know, this is all very daunting
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to a modern rap but if you
just start to scratch the surface, to
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try to automy or semi aim in
some rear activity, you'll be so surprised
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that the effectiveness and the productivity increase. You know, less is more more
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with us. That's what I have
to do. There's a paradox as well,
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because you know, recently we've et
about challenge your sale without about you
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need to do your research before you
actually engage with someone. And I appreciate
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you know drift is okay if someone
calls you, someone calls you in having
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an automated voice kind of leading them
to the right people and all that.
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It's okay when you do an actual
practive cutouts and pobs. Surely if you
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sell something in the multi dollar multimillion
dollars, complex cells and and and also
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sometimes a destructive product, okay.
Well, you have a concept that you
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know it's not doesn't have a category. So you're selling, I don't know,
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a selver or storage or fire wall
and end point security product. You've
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got some fils is a little bit
more of a pay. This is on
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your category. I didn't know that
that exists. How can the see artificial
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intelligence actually support your on that,
because they don't. I mean I don't
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know if they can. Maybe they
do, but I would you tell or
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research out? Do you adapt the
message, because artificial indigence, so we
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don't knows. On you know,
it's kind of an algorithm and you say
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that you got there. So it's
kind of a scripted approach. You know,
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it's an algorithm. Yes, you
go there, I know you go
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down. Okay, what about that's
human feeding, the research, the webving
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the conversation and feeling that he's going
that way. So I will add that
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to it. Can you tell always
a tificially intelligenous could you actually do the
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property properly? For two million dollar
deals, and I'm gaging we see over
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sible value prospect so there's two to
answer. Just that one. The technology
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is not there yet. Are The
technology that we acquired had the ability to
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do things like technographics, psychographics and
demographics. So let me let me answer
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this in three ways. One,
our emails pass the turing test because we
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could figure out connections in common and
we could connect, figure out companies in
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common and interesting common and mention those
within a template in a way that the
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email was personalized enough that it was
indistinguishable from having written by human. And
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there was a lot of setup that
happened. For example, if I tell
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a machine to find connections in common
and I start emailing my friends on Linkedin,
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it's going to reference Max ouchiler every
time or it's going to reference read
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Hoffman every time. So that's a
failed the system has to be smart,
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so you have to be able to
stop the system and write about your most
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common nodes and connections so it knows
to prioritize suppression lists and who not to
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mention. So it's doing the next
order down. That's just to nail the
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connections in common. Pleas to automated. I'm just giving you an example of
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how human intervention, along with our
official intelligence, preprogrammed and thoughtful, can
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work. This book is really not
about that. This booking knowledges that we
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don't have the flying car. This
book is about technology quotient, which is
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one's ability to become adept at the
tech that exists now. So for every
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recording now they become once reading it
five percent better today, with whatever the
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tech they have, with the Toub
spot, sales force, sales locked outreach,
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sales navigator, lead, Iq,
Zoom Info, just thinking of the
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major players. Right. I have
things that connect and sell in there,
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things like connect leader in aurum right, super automated calling. We're dialing thousands.
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This addresses all the current technology,
mostly because I found in a world
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where we all have the exact same
technology. Like, if I'm at on
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a floor of two hundred STRs,
the strs that did the best are the
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ones that obviously they are calling,
but also are embracing all the technology.
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So this is going to help you
rapidly assimilate and understand whatever TEXTAC you have.
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So I created Meta framework. So
here's how to quickly learn any UI,
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any UX. Here's how to quickly
use all these families of SOFTWA.
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They're being built. The future is
far away and you're right, and that's
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like I was involved in spending a
millions of dollars trying to try to figure
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out how to use AI for sales, and we never went there. We
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always said it was humans and machines, because we always acknowledge the limitations of
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of current artificial intelligence. What if
is the job is really, really hard,
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like what the job actually is,
if you're doing upbound hunting, is
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you're sitting looking at computer. The
computers always on sales navigator because there's six
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hundred and seventy five million prospects.
They're looking for the targets on navigator.
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Then they're going to email manually or
their str is going to start sequences,
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and usually sales loped out reach.
I like to mention Sam because inside salescom
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is pivoted and it's just really cool
platform. A lot of people don't know
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what they're doing. X An t
zant tertiarily, you have a data source
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because you're like any emails, because
Linkedin does not give you emails. So
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you need a working email and a
working phone, and then most people don't
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call to have this silent sales force. Now here's the other thing. There's
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my brothers, a technologist. In
two thousand and two you had in the
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Fortune One Tho, you had like
two hundred CMOS that could buy advertising technology.
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In your two hundred and thirty four
vendors selling to them. Now,
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in two thousand and twenty you have
seven thousand two hundred vendors, as you
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see the sales technology. So it's
because similar to the music business, where
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you can make a recording as good
as Michael Jackson your bedroom because a Moore's
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law and transistors. You know,
basically anology is sophisticated enough that anyone start
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as ass right, with technologies like
Amazon web services, anyone could just code
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a startup company in their hurrash.
Right, Larry and Sergey started google starting
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a garage, right, but right
now it's just so easy to start startup
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companies. So here's what you have. You have more startup companies than ever.
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Pre Corona you had the biggest funding
rounds ever. Forty percent of the
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funding rounds two thousand and nineteen,
wherever, a hundred million. Why?
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Because they want to do an IPO, because they don't want to show the
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fundamentals right. There's some, some
massive companies that have I road and tanks
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because they were running like a startup
company in Wall Street. Didn't like it.
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Now here's what Yat. When you
have enough companies raising a hundred million
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dollars and enough companies that are exactly
the same, commoditized, what do you
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have to do? You have to
hire an army of SDRs. Can't pay
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them. One strs are gone.
In a year and a half, every
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SDR of every train is trying to
be in an A. I help them
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get there because they want to get
fifty splits. They want the commission,
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00:18:49.529 --> 00:18:53.769
the CFO saying I can't give big
commissions to my openers because you can't bite
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the apple to many times because you
ultimate close the deal. Have to have
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the margin, have to pay the
AE, have to pay management. Right.
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So what started to happen is what
I called the Cambrian explosion of vendors.
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And what this means is you,
as the CEO, or getting two
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hundred and fifty emails a day.
The majority of those emails are coming out
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of a blast sequencer, and so
you have this problem. We try to
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level the playing field. All the
best shops are using automation, already preprogram
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sequences. They're getting into the INBOX, usually Google is getting better better deliverability,
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so that they're sending way too many
emails. They're getting spam listed.
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All of it says hope, you're
doing well, reaching out. All the
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emails on exactly the same it's a
white wall of noise. The sea level
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shuts off their linkedin or they put
their executive assist in it. They retreat.
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They don't answer the phone. Now, if you look at phone calling
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in the US, nine times out
of ten when my phone rings, it
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says Robo Call, spam callers.
I answer it every time. Three,
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00:19:44.970 --> 00:19:47.809
four, five of those calls are
gone course, and Zoom Info these awesome
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reps. there's literally if my phone
is flashing red, do not answer,
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00:19:51.529 --> 00:19:53.799
Spam Hall and then it's a wrap
from Zoom Info. My contact rates on
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00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:57.400
a hundred dials prom three to five
in two thousand and seven. Thirteen years
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ago my contact rates were seven out
of ten. If I use robot dials
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like parallels just to dine in the
connect and so I can make thousands of
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dollars and connect once and every forty
three times. Here's the other thing.
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The decisionmakers and the people that have
the money in this economy do not answer
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to cold email sequences and they do
not pick a phone. I don't care
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what hour of the day. They
become aware of things that annoy them and
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they deploy their staff go read that
White Paper, but down the that they
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delegate off the rrendous task of being
sold to write and it's a byars world.
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So a lot of what this book
was about in Combo Prospecting, where
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I was featured, is about how
leverage all the existing technologies that we have
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now to create Omni channel blends,
to create multichannel outreach and to start automating
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it so that you can have some
breakthrough, because there's so much stacked against
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you for affected outbound now a largely
because a lot of this stuff has been
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adopted. So that's that's my answer
to Ai. I think if you purely
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rely on a appointment setting, you
won't get there. If you purely rely
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00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:00.559
on just email animation, you will
get there. If you purely do phone
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calls, you don't get there.
You have to take your entire tech STAP,
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create flows and touch patterns where you
use all the technology you have and
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00:21:07.910 --> 00:21:11.950
create efficiency out of a be testing
the blends of that technology. For me
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it sales navigator lead Iq, except
the extell cell phones and something like,
321
00:21:18.509 --> 00:21:21.259
you know, maybe a persist IQ, like a boutique, you know,
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outbound mechanism for high deliverability. And
then it's knowing the throttles. If you
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had too many people a day on
Linkedin, they shut you up here in
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linked in jail. If you send
over two hundred fifty emails and Gmail,
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they shut you off. Your your
domain blacklisted. Right if you sideload you
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00:21:34.690 --> 00:21:38.569
to me, there's issues with that. It's really really tricking out the GDPR
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00:21:38.609 --> 00:21:41.369
and CCPA. So there's a there's
a lot of pitfalls. That's all explain
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00:21:41.450 --> 00:21:45.329
in the book. Good. Well, thanks for your inside just till I'm
329
00:21:45.329 --> 00:21:48.440
very appreciate the face. You took
the time to share all your sorts with
330
00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:53.559
all audience today. Lots of foot
fossils there, you know, and futuristic
331
00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:57.119
point of view, which I think
is is really a some of them are
332
00:21:57.160 --> 00:22:00.920
very, very, veryiad some of
them are struggling a little bit more to
333
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:03.109
see them coming, but I'm sure
you know, we time things will change
334
00:22:03.109 --> 00:22:07.470
and and and a fully on those
and fully appreciate that. Now, if
335
00:22:07.549 --> 00:22:11.910
anyone wants to connect with you or, you know, get a look at
336
00:22:11.950 --> 00:22:14.750
the book, called you at conversation
of flight. What's the best way to
337
00:22:15.029 --> 00:22:18.539
get old of your just say yeah, so, just good a Justin Michael
338
00:22:18.220 --> 00:22:22.700
on Linkedin and you can just send
me a message and for now I will
339
00:22:23.140 --> 00:22:27.339
like email you a pdf or share
the book with you technology portion. It's
340
00:22:27.380 --> 00:22:32.490
called Tq, which is distinct from
IQ and Equ and we're doing this because
341
00:22:32.569 --> 00:22:34.130
it's the state of the world right
now. Like the goal is to release
342
00:22:34.250 --> 00:22:37.730
it on kindle through a publisher in
four to six months, but this is
343
00:22:37.809 --> 00:22:41.569
like real time information. Nothing is
still in this book. It's being looked
344
00:22:41.609 --> 00:22:45.799
at right now by practitioners like you, just going adjusting, Michael and Linkedin.
345
00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:48.319
Send me a paying and invite a
message and I will add you to
346
00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:51.839
the book. I'd love to even
get your you know your inside and what
347
00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:55.039
you think about the stuff. It's
a living document for now and I think
348
00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:57.910
it's going to help thousands of people
right now do better where they are,
349
00:22:59.150 --> 00:23:02.589
which is like my altruistic and intention. No, not to sell a book
350
00:23:02.589 --> 00:23:06.630
or service for the time being,
just to help people everywhere, help sellers
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on the foot of Wad. Once
again, many things for all time.
352
00:23:10.230 --> 00:23:11.630
Today, just and you was an
upsode pressure toy on the show. Thanks
353
00:23:11.710 --> 00:23:15.460
early and he's kind of in a
really appreciate you, guys. operatics has
354
00:23:15.539 --> 00:23:22.339
redefined the meaning of revenue generation for
technology companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts
355
00:23:22.380 --> 00:23:27.769
of building and managing inside sales teams
inhouse has existed for many years. Companies
356
00:23:27.809 --> 00:23:33.009
are struggling with a lack of focus, agility and scale required in today's fast
357
00:23:33.170 --> 00:23:40.289
and complex world of enterprise technology sales. See How operatics can help your company
358
00:23:40.329 --> 00:23:45.720
accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've
been listening to be tob revenue acceleration.
359
00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:49.680
To ensure that you never miss an
episode, subscribe to the show in your
360
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favorite podcast player. Thank you so
much for listening. Until next time,
