Episode Transcript
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You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executives stay
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on the cutting edge of sales and
marketing in their industry. Let's get into
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the show. Hi, welcome to
be to be a revenue acceleration. My
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name is already am with you and
I'm here today with Alex Holly, Co
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Founder at Ridge Desk. How are
you today, Alex? Hey, yeah,
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I'm really well. Thanks, sunshining. Work from home. Plenty is
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going on not keep me busy.
But so, Alex, we you and
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I met as we were recording,
not recording, actually doing a live will
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be now a couple of weeks ago, and I think we went on like
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a house on fire because some of
your ideas and some of the points that
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you made regarding Account Bay's marketing,
your opinion, your vision, are very
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much aligned with ours, and today
we will be talking about humanizing your IBM
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campaigns. But we've got a bit
of a tradition and the beginning of the
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PODCAST, before we get onto the
topic, we always ask our guests to
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introduce themselves and tell us a little
bit more about their companion, in your
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case rich desk. So would you
mind just taking a few minutes to introduce
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yourself. Who is Alex and who
is rich desk? Really good, really
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good question. So I'm one of
the CO founders of rich desk. We
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started a couple of years back.
I mean start with the business first.
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We help sales and marketing teams deliver. Why? Call the moments the matter
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in the customer journey, so you
can create like a human connection using integrated
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direct man and gifting. So it's
about leveraging the physical channel, bringing that
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back in. You know, it
was a channel that perhaps died twenty years
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ago. Everyone used to do direct
mail and now it's kind of having a
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comeback. So we call it direct
mail to point two point, not sorry,
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to qua zero, but yeah,
that's what reached us all about.
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I started it because I used to
do a lot of account base marketing.
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I kind of started years ago as
an str and a, then moved into
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the marketing function and saw what happened
when you integrate sales within the actual abm
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mix, and we saw that we're
getting really good results as well from using
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the physical channel to elevate your other
digital channels to really yet complement the whole
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abm program that's where reached US really
start. Okay, that sounds really good.
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And then would you serve? At
the moment, whatslodof clients are?
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You have to mainly software because that
was our background, but we're moving more
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into that the recruitment space as well. But you know, we work with
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businesses like sap, for example,
and who sweets and those kind of customers.
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But yeah, we're going down serving
consultancy, recruitment, the more service
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industry as well. So when you
an when I is going to you in
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their service of the software, so
selling, sending kind of the the intengiball
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they offer our staff, right,
yeah, exactly. Okay, so let's
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get to the topic now. My
first question is and giving a bit of
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background. So ABM campaign's Bay nature
should always be extremely targeting and personalized.
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That's kind of the concept. But
we still see a lot of companies setting
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there comping up for failure from our
perspective, and they that they mean that
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they are straying more money's more money
to adds, automation and basically or being
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fight to bring results. Why do
you think it is so important to humanize
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ABM and how can you actually do
it? Yeah, that's a fantastic question.
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I've almost like to get back to
a couple of years back when I
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started doing abm, we were doing
the same thing. We would just spend
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a lot of money on ads and
like emails and it was a marketing lad
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function right. We didn't get it
right because we weren't talking about the right
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metrics and everything we want. We
were actually driving towards revenue. Was All
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about MTL's and booking meetings and we're
basically doing a lot of bit wrong.
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I think why make it more human
and humanizing. The ABM approach is based
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on one really fundamental principle, that
is, people buy from people, but
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they don't actually want to buy from
your company. They want a relationship with
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the person, and I think it's
important to this because this is what buyers
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expect right now. The way I
always think about it is very simply those
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I think about seventy, seventy five
percent, roughly. That beat to be
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a buyers. Now a millennial,
the millennial sort of buyer buys in a
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very different way and what they've got
used to. And I'm a Millennium Myself,
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so I can speach to myself and
there's been a lot of research from
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Gardner another other similar businesses that have
done a lot of research into this.
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We want this kind of friction.
That's buying experience. We don't want to
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buy from an ad or an email, we want to talk to a humor.
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The be to b space is kind
of working towards that's the same level
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of intimacy, the immediacy and coherence
is perhaps what we expect from like the
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B Toc Brands, you know,
the retail brands that we like, and
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I think it those kind of businesses
have got it, got it nailed,
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because they're always there. They will
always show up at the right time.
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It's always personally its contextual. Now
the B Tob World, when you're doing
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account base marketing, you can take
that BTC logic and put it into a
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BM program and surround it around a
humor, you know, and str who's
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actually like part of the marketing machine, and an ae who's also part of
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that, and you can focus all
of it around the experience that your prospect
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in your end of customer, is
having. Then you're going to get way
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better results. So for me it's
about putting the right people within your ABM
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program and make it humor from that
way, because that's what people expect.
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Yeah, now, I think I
think that makes puffis kind of obviously by
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us because I'm running operatics and we
we do ever a farm ondaff as Dubid
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in our teams. So getting on
to that, we, as I mentioned,
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to Indianrol, we've been recently together
on a bun or discussion about the
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dues and don'ts of DSDR and and
I'll fancy that companies on does you made
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the importance of these ds Dr in
it diabm compaigns? What are your sorts
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on that? And and also I'll
do your quest raight it. HMM.
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Yeah, so I th think that
was a really good starting point from where
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we first met online with the strs, and I always think about having that
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human element within this. I hundred
percent agree, I think. I think
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the role of the FDR is is
massively underestimated in terms of it's important.
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I think the reason why that happens
is because some organizations still target their marketing
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teams on things like mql's also the
mq AD is bad. But what we
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really want to do when we're talking
about account based program so we're talking about
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revenue. That's the end goal.
We don't want to. No one cares.
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If we don't get any revenue on
the table at the end of it,
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then it's all for nothing. Where
it's not that booking meetings. So
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the almost the distinction there is the
word, M R account based marketing.
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The Marketing Element is actually what usually
confus is businesses and, as I said
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you earlier on, I fell into
this trap five, six years ago.
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But we'll about marketing and so of
getting that top of fun approach. But
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I realized that if you can put
humans, particularly strs as sometimes customer success,
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within your account based marketing program what
you can do is you can focus
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on the revenue number a lot more
and you can have that that human sub
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slotted with into it so that they
can be the ones that deliver. I
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call it Switzerland. But they're not
in marketing, they're not in sales,
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they're in the middle and there they're
the ones that join the two. We
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all talk about sales and marketing alignment, we all want it, but but
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I think the str is actually the
link. It's the bit where you can
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have marketing handoff and sales linked together
and do it in a really human way,
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that there is part of your account
based program and I'll do you get
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them between interact, because you know
you'll. Ever, he's a spot us,
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a multi touch process. Do you
think that process needs to be a
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rigid do your duo low flexibility?
Is it eased on a one on one
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basis? I mean, I don't
know. There is on sort of that
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question, to be fair like.
So I'm asking you for opinion on that
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or maybe some some some storytelling.
Yeah, sure, so, look,
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the way I've done it is you
having start with. Starts with data.
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Everything has to start with having that. That sort of what I call the
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single customer of you. Where a
lot of business still working in lists and
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which going to have this list and
we're going to focus on there when it
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reaches that stage, and that's what
it going to gets handed off. What
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I've built over the past couple of
years is what I call that single customer
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of you, using like a customer
data platform sort of software, so you
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can net together a lot of things
that are real time and what you do
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is you you can do it based
on things that can engagement scores, so
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that at that point that a certain
level of engagement reaches x, that's when
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the str comes into play. That's
where marketing still moves along the process.
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Then ever dip out of it,
they're providing that air cover and then when
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engagement increases to another level, then
that could be the point of which the
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A is now part of the the
process as well. But I've done it
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based on that model. If you
take real time data based on what's happening
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on your website, intent data,
your named account list, your ICP,
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the engagement that's happening through adds and
emails and everything, you can build a
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scoring model that allows you to know
when an individual is going to be engaging
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with that account. It's not just
about the the individual contact or prospect within
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the account, but the account engagement, because then that gives you the flexibility.
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If you're now talking to someone who's
more of a manager level, but
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you know you need to get into
the c suite, then you can start
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training your strs, for example,
in that situation to have the right conversation
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so that you can then multi thread
within the account and drive the account forward.
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And it's at the point at which
you reach that next level of engagement
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that's when it kind of hands off
into the next phase, which might be
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actually the proposal or the or the
pitch stage within Ay. So I don't
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think that you should just reach a
single point and then that's it. They've
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kind of booked a meeting and then
they move on. You've got to get
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to a certain point in which it
makes sense for you to fully reach that
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level of engagement and I think that's
where businesses really win. Yeah, now,
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I grow was j having the what
we've seen recently, and there was
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one of the DEPI that we we've
discussed on a few way be nails and
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beats and visit that we've been invaded
to is is that currently, because of
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the current climate and the pandemic still
pretty much being out there and everybody still
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being kind of flagged downe. At
the moment, we see our clients sitting
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as a dart. Target market is
shrinking. They can go after the same
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volume of accounts as they used to
do before and I think that's kind of
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pushing them towards the ABM approach.
Okay, and and what we've realize over
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the course of April and maze that
that first element that you mentioned, the
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data, they don't have it.
They really don't have it. You know,
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we've had maybe seven contract that we
sign with prospective organization that will want
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to do more with us. But
basically, the first step, the first
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part of the agreement, our first
engagement with them is building up a data
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set. is going to that taget
accounts. I dontify the being centers,
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I don'tify the right people in those
being centers and starting from thence it look.
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You need to organize them by personnel. So the account level you need
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to organize by geography, potentially vertical
and whatever you know, the crater may
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be relevant to you as an organization. But then you need to talk to
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of a second level of segmentation at
the contact level, and then you can
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do your campaign and then you can
do your one on one, too few
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or even one to one type of
type of campaigns. But now what we
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are realizing? We are realizing that
as well building up intelligence and, you
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know, putting information together. Or
those customers, our clients, are treateding
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taking the reports that we built for
them like the is. So it's a
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power point on Blay that will say
the name of the clients and all the
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information that we've collected on the account
and they send it to the end user.
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Listening to the the the account they
want to prospect and I say,
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you know, based on the information
that we collected on your account, please
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see the attached, I believe that
you are the person that we should talk
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to and I believe that your issue
should be this, that, that and
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that, and that's how they get
the engagement. But we also get involved
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in now getting those first engagement.
funnily enough, as we go along the
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process, and sometimes, you know, we put we put contacted to not
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string, we also get involved into
that murder investigation type of type of Sdr
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Medea role where, as you said, we will take the data from intent
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marketing, will take the data from
the scoring tools and see, you know,
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if these people have been active,
eteter etc. And then try to
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go from clues that we are getting
on the accounts and prioritization on who accounts
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we want to go after, first
trying to find clue, to build up
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a case to then go and speak
to them. And that's kind of the
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opener and it's interesting way it works. By do agree with you. And
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my next question is, is all
wrongs that role? I know that you
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say that they are not cells DSDRVIDEA
is kind of is kind of not really
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a sells role, not for your
marketing role. So let's call it for
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the sake of today, and a
BDR role. And I can't base development
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representative role in a way and make
question to you, Alex he's I'll do
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you insensivized, just people? Yeah, so you have the you still keep
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the traditional model in a sense.
So for an AB account based SDR,
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yeah, you'd still say, you
know, you need to book meetings with
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the right people. But you have
a scoring system. This is what I've
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started using. You almost have a
priority list and I just break it down
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into too. So you have your
tear. One in your tear to anyone
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in that tier one. There might
be twenty five account now you give it,
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you give it a value to the
level of seniority and the best fit
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persona. So let's say you're setting
the marketing, you have a CMO.
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Is your ultimate decision make, and
then the CFO might be the one,
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particularly now he's going to be actually
signing off on the budget for it.
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If you have a meeting with the
CMO, there worth twenty points. And
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let's say perhaps you you provide integrations
as well, but they're not as key
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to the decision. So, having
that, the CIO might get you ten
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points, do you actually do on
the point system so that whereby you actually
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incentivize and remunerate your account based Business
Development Reps, SDRS, whatever we're calling
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them, based on that point system, because you know that in those tier
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one accounts, the higher you get
up and the more buying you get up
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from the senior decision makers, you
can appoint more points to them and actually
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remunerate them on that basic it really
demonstrates the right behavior to make sure you're
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talking to the right people. That's
the first part for me. It's having
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a scoring system. Then you do
a slightly lower system for your tear to
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accounts. For example. We know
one average there's between six to eight buyers
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involved in the buying decision in a
babe transaction. So more with an account
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based marketing it's more like twelve to
fourteen. The second part to it for
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me is around actually remunerating the the
str on the closed one revenue from it,
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because again, they are more interested
in not just the first part of
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Book Ere Meeting and qualifying and making
sure there's a next step in place to
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move forward. They're actually also displaying
the right behaviors, and this is usually
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where their attention to detail is enhanced
because they're amunerated on when that deal closes,
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that they're going to be compensated on
that too, and that's one of
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the biggest shifts I've seen happening in
business. Now, less just about meetings
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book but also about when, when
you do your job properly and it closes,
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you'll be conversated for the actual money, but will come through the business
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when the contract sign yeah, focus
on quality. That makes perfect sense and
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I'm just want to shifted it a
big gear. Do you think that the
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ABM is still pretty much a marketing
driven approach? It's in between both.
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You know and we know that a
real ABM camping should be marketing stupotted base
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cells walking together. That's the do's
to the dream world. Okay, but
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coming back to make question, do
you think that the ABM is, to
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the pretty mature a marketing driven approach, or do you see more cells leader
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and senior leadership members beying into the
video of Adm? Or I can base
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everything as we've been cutting it.
Yeah, there's there are a couple of
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stages of the maturity of your Abim
Programs. For me, I think the
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larger organizations are struggling to actually make
that shift because there's so much internal constraints
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tractually make account base marketing programs work. You need to get by in throughout
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the whole organization. Can't just be
the marketing team saying hey, we're going
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to do ABM and then hope it
works. That won't work. The CEO
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needs to be brought in, the
CMO, everyone down to like yes,
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they are, everyone needs to be
brought into it right. So I'm actually
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seeing the businesses that make it less
about a marketing initiative are usually sort of
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the the hyper growth techn companies who
have been more agile. The buying is
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a bit easier to get hold of
because you can do a pilot project and
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see quick winds quite quite easily and
then invest more into it. So I
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actually think is those those businesses that
sort of hypergrowth bit more agile, usually
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sort of DC back companies that are
being pressed to get quality results and not
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just those the quantity numbers and actually
the bigger organizations struggling a bit more.
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It's really important to stress a CA'TMAs
marketing is not a new content, but
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it's been around for twenty, five, thirty years. Used to be only
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for the larger companies that had big
teams, have marked that had sort of
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thirty or forty marks that they can
allocate the account. Now we've got so
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much more technology that allows it to
be more agiled. Have scoring systems,
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intend data, CDPs, wasting it
altogether into a crm. It's becoming more
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available to those businesses in the more
angil companies that are investing that technology now
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are the ones that are moving away
from ABM being a marketing let initiative and
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more holistic cross functional team. Absolutely, absolutely no. I completely agree with
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you. Long leave the account base
everything because I think in in today's climate,
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and particularly if you if you've got
a value product and you want to
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go and get your big ticket sells, it's more important than ever. Last
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question for you. I know we're
running a little bit of out of time.
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I get excited sometimes, Alex,
do we. We often see people
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looking at her, we see clients
coming to us as I want to do
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an account base everything campaign. I
completely get it. We do the white
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blots of Blah Blah Blah, we
get going and literally there are only interested
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in the meetings. Okay, so
they only want meetings and they want what
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I would call an open the door
meeting. So, as you say,
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so propulse me at the sea level
in that accounts and then see you later.
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Don't touget a count anymore. So
if you go after account a,
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get me at the top of that
account. That's its operatics. Job is
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done. You can move on to
the next one. We are trying to
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tell them that this is not right, and I think we're trying to tell
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them that this is the responsibility of
marketing, but also sells to supert the
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AE to not only get that first
meeting in the ACCOM but also bought them
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in enriching that consensus by they engaging
with all deals of personnails that would be
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from close to fire involving the decision
making process. What do you think about
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that? Do you think is the
right of project? Do you think we
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should change our approach? Shot,
do you think we fating a loss?
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Butt all, you're on the right
approach. That you've got to you got
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to keep a hard line there.
Yes, fine, we do or want
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meeting, but there's no point in
meetings that is not going to turn into
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an actual close one deal. If
you think that you really break it down
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into two, and for me I
can't. Base Marketing is transitioning from the
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ABM to the ABX side of things. Account Base experiences and I think if
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you if you buy into experience as
being in the new currency whereby we're not
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differentiated on products and pricing and those
things, and you're creating experience which is
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all about your prospect your customer,
the account you need to have it as
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a friction as approach doesn't just stop
at the point that a meeting takes place.
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You need to build these cost functional
teams. You need to have a
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whole team that buys into that.
So that and it's not even just the
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point of which that first deal gets
closed. ABM actually goes beyond that.
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CANTI is marketing is about expansion and
advocacy. It's about you know, you
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have customers. How do we really
get more out of them? So for
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me, if you're thinking about ABM, is let's target this account, get
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meetings book, not only for getting
about stage one, which is obviously getting
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the contract signed and winning the customer
the face. Two after that is actually
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about expansion. How do we really
get more out of that account, because
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what we aim for in ABM is
advocacy. Ultimately, yeah, advocacy leads
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to better renewer rates, quicker velocity
in deals, but really importantly, expansion
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and up cells, and I think
that's what everyone should really be at me
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for. If we aim the expansion
side of things more, will forget more
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about the meetings booked, we'll forget
more about the initial clothes one and we'll
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think longer term, and I think
that's what we should be amble. Okay,
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now, completely agree with you.
Well, rich end, well out
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of time now it's so knowing.
I had two more question for you because
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I eat. They keep on coming, but I'm sure with the obsition together
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our lext that that that's fine.
I love to we're trying to keep trying
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to keep up a just ready earlier
shops. So so you know people can
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listen to them during a commute or
something like that and not go for the
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long, long haul type of conversation
as I want you to thank you for
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your insight today. Very, very
useful. Really appreciate you take the time.
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I knowed your confirmed our fridge desk. You're operating as a Bidr the
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moment. I would encourage anyone to
find your linkedin and to follow your journey,
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00:21:34.849 --> 00:21:37.769
because it's pretty cool and and fun. You know, it's good to
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00:21:37.769 --> 00:21:42.009
see us so for a little bit, but Orsando yet it's kind of an
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interesting went to witness. But if
anyone wants to connect with you to Laun
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00:21:45.730 --> 00:21:49.119
more about rich desk or you know, just carry on the conversation that we
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just said today or flight was the
best way to get told of Your Lex
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Yeah, just find me on Linkedin. Just said, Alex Ali. My
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00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:59.400
snames, I W E Y quite
unconventional ones. That are and many of
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00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:02.950
us. If you want to find
more about reachest, go on to Linkedin
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00:22:03.029 --> 00:22:07.150
page or just find us on wwwascom
will wait. We're always happy to have
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a conversation. That's wonderful. Well, great and many things again to you.
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It was an absolute pleasure to have
younger show today. Yeah, likewise,
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00:22:17.299 --> 00:22:22.420
thanks not for having me. operatics
has redefined the meaning of revenue generation
327
00:22:22.660 --> 00:22:27.779
for technology companies worldwide. While the
traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales
328
00:22:27.859 --> 00:22:33.490
teams inhouse has existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of
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00:22:33.650 --> 00:22:40.329
focus, agility and scale required in
today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology
330
00:22:40.369 --> 00:22:45.880
sales. See How operatics can help
your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet.
331
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You've been listening to BEDB revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an
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episode, subscribe to the show in
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much for listening. Until next time.
