Episode Transcript
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You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executives stay
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on the cutting edge of sales and
marketing in their industry. Let's get into
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the show. I welcome to be
to be a revenue acceleration. My name
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is already am with you and today
we are recording what I guess I would
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call across Atlantic episode, where we
have Joseph Graves, our ad of training
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and development eat operatics, representing the
European side of our business, and Steven
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Chase, our sales development manager and
also kind of sellers Operation Ninja, as
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I believe he likes to describe himself, dating from our Dallas Office, so
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representing the US side of our business
and North America. How are you guys
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doing today? Very well, very
well the dad. I've got some tea,
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so I'm doing okay, really good. Our discussion today will be about
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the difference. The difference is in
prospecting in Europe versus, not America.
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But before we go into the conversation, can you guys just introduced yourself in
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a little bit more details to audience
and and let's start with you, Steven,
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because I believe, Joe, you've
already participated kid to some of our
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podcast yeah. Well, like Ray
said, my name is Steven Chase.
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I'm in the Dallas Office for operatics. I'm one of the senior strs as
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well as kind of our sales operations
lead. So I up a lot of
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our clients with some of the tooling, helping reps get quick up to speed
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with messaging and things like that.
And I guess yeah, if you if
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you want to know a bit more
about me, noise, go back and
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listen to the previous podcast of them. See You. My name is Joe
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Grieves, on the head of training
and development here operatics, with operatics for
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five years. It was my anniversary
the other week and yeah, really always
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enjoying it. It remind me to
get you a beyond next time you are
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in your face, because I think
I did miss your five year anniversary.
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So appologies about that. So I'm
sure you will. So, as many
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of our listeners know, he are
to paractics with your bought be to be
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software vendors with the cells development across
multiple regions, so globally basically, and
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one of the question we often get
asked is what are the differences between prospecting
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in Europe versus just not America.
So I'd like to start with you,
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Joe, as you're representing the Ama
side of our business and you know that
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the results have come Fraz in thema. So there is a little bit more
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complexity and and and culture and languages. So from your perspective, how is
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it like to do prospecting in the
EMA? Good question. I think the
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challenge that we have in Europe is
how do we adapt the operatics methodology to
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each country and the the cultural differences
often mean that you have to use a
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different approach to cold outreach. Could
be small things like how you actually address
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someone, speaking casually or in a
more formal manner, or bigger issues like
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the method and frequency of the outreach, like number of calls emails that are,
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I guess, acceptable. So yeah, a sales pitch as well.
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Something that might work in the UK
might not be easily translated to French or
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German, for example. And tone, I think, plays a very important
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part in that. I think in
the UK you can perhaps get away with
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a more abrupt or humorous styles,
sometimes not so much in Germany, from
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what I'm told, and I guess
if I was to rank the effectiveness of
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the different methods of outreaching Europe,
I'd say calls are still the quickest and
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easiest way to create sales engagements.
Emails still a very useful tool, but
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it needs to be done in the
right way to stand out from the crowd.
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And, you know, social selling
via platform cite Linkedin, I would
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say, would come in third place, as it depends on the person you're
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reaching out to being a an active
user on the platform. There are exceptions
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to that, of course, and
depends on individuals preferences. One thing I
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would say is that everyone thinks their
region is the toughest. I remember we
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had a French chap start not too
long ago and he came to me after
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speaking to the team and he said
a Joe, you know, I've been
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told it's much more difficult in front
cours. It is. Well, I
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asked my response to him. I
said, well, why don't you go
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and ask our sea and see what
his response is, because he's probably going
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to tell you something different. That's
how he made his day and come and,
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as may believe, it, thought
that he definitely didn't. I'm sure
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will and but it's you know,
people in Germany they say, I joe.
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You know, Germany's very, very
tough, and I remember I went
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over to the US and they say, you know, joe its people in
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the US. They don't like cold
out reach. And I think universal doesn't
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matter what country doing. And I
think it's also true when you are doing
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in bond response measurement, when you
are following up on leads, there is
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different there is different approache, there
is different way to the prospect likes to
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be engage with. Probably more formal
in centrally Europe, less formally tea in
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the UK, maybe more to the
point. In the UK people don't waste
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time southern Europe with the Latins of
French Spanish telly. And it's about building
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relationship. And what I think I
see a lot from a despect even having
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done the job myself, is the
is those the sequence got to adapt.
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So in France you probably would do
more calls than emails because people tend to
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be more responsive to the fun,
the fun and and you know, having
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multiple conversation was the same prospect.
He's building up a relationship and they might
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not give you what you want but
they will give you the name of a
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culligue. That may give you what
you want. So you know that that
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in some red generationship building is walking. In some Mosai is not walking as
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much. Now I totally agree with
you. So, Stephen, I guess
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from from from listening to what Joyce
saying, you will find some difference between
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between which you just and obviously the
US territory. So could you please show
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your sults on what's walking in the
US from your perspective? So I guess
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anybody who knows me it operatics,
knows that email was my like, that
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was my thing and pre covid it
was pretty strong. I used to set
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quite a few sales engagements via cold
outreach via email. But having to adapt
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with everything that's been going on and
looking at data from companies like hub spot
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and sales often things like that.
I mean calls or call connection rates through
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up sixty percent, whereas email responses
or email sends are higher than ever,
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but email response rates are down twenty
six percent. So it's like you have
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to figure out where you're going to
create a happy medium. So using some
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of the People in my network for
coaching and things like that. Justin Michael,
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who has been on the podcast before. He has a method called Combo
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prospecting, which is kind of what
I've started developing and using, and it's
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a series of triple, triple touches
for cold outreach, so phone, voice,
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mail, email, back to back
to back. But it's constantly building
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value. So what you're doing is
laying bad chromes for the prospect to follow,
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to hear the message in different ways
each time to ultimately either get them
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to tell you no or yes or
give you a referral. So it's just
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trying to ignite a response out of
somebody, and that methods a little aggressive
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in terms of how often you're reaching
out, in terms of doing your triples
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and things like that. But with
the aggressiveness also, like I said,
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comes with different levels of value being
built. Now, for me, cold
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calls are cold outreach. Sorry,
that was I use the bad word,
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my bad. Cold outreach via the
phone has actually been my strongest point going
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into the pandemic actually. But with
the US I think it's a little different
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because you have to differentiate yourself from
the people that are constantly cold calling or
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yeah, cold calling people in the
sense of the word that most people associate
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with cold outreach. So like your
telemarketers and things like that. You have
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to differentiate yourself. Like the yesterday
I was on the phone with the prospect.
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He answered the phone and questioningly said
hello, and I was like,
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Hey, is this Soandso, and
he's like, it depends who's this,
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and I was like, Hey,
I I'm not a debt collector, but
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unfortunately this I am. I'm am
calling you out of the blue. So
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if you have like thirty two seconds, I'd love to at least tell you
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why I was calling. And every
time I use that opener it gets people
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to laugh and then let me have
a conversation with them and then we go
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on. Difference, as I think
you know, it's it's not just a
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covid adaptation. You mentioned that at
the in the opening. From a perspective,
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you also need to change the way
you you do the outrage depending on
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the type of person you are prospecting. Right. So if I'm going to
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go and sell to a sales person
or seals leader or marketing leaders, people
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at a I'm going to make a
massive cliche here, but maybe a little
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bit more the outgoing type of people, I would definitely put a little bit
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of him in my approach. I'll
definitely try to, you know, make
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the atmosphere a little bit cooler for
everyone and, you know, make them
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feel comfortable with me in a way. It's got to be smart. It
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doesn't, you can't, you know, you can't go like to cliche.
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Is got to be and it's got
to be genuine. You know, it's
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got to be a genuine approach,
where usual you are relatively relaxed about the
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approach. And and then, I
think, when you are going to do
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function, you've got to tell them
very quickly why them? You know why?
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Why? Why did I want to
engage with you, which is kind
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of buying you. The next stis
goes to one minutes to them tell them
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what what you want about and what
you think you can change their the current
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situation and all that. But I
think it's you know, obviously today is
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speaking about the difference between North America
and Europe, and there is plenty,
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because culturize fundamentally different. The way
of doing business is pretty much the same,
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but people are buying in a different
way. I also think that,
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based on the level of person and
the function and what did was a title.
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They also have is a different medium
to engage with them. There's defriend
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Dape of psychology being the engagement.
Speaking about that, you know, I'd
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like to I'd like to ask to
gaze if you've got to say if you've
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seen any unusual prospecting tactics that have
walked well in the past and you know
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that you been it would be off
sharing, that would be off sharing with
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audience. Yeah, for sure.
A lot of the stuff that I think
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both me and Steven find it isn't
things that we've kind of come up with
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ourselves. Both both of us are
guests. So what you're called sales and
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nerves. So we we follow a
lot of kind of sales leaders on Linkedin
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and we still a lot of stuff
from people that tell us what's working for
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them. And well, the thing
that's worked very recently, which I was
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certainly surprised about, was being honest
with people about what this is and using
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that kind of dirty word, that
cold call, because you know these people
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who were speaking to, they get
hundreds of course around the month and you
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do this kind of weird dance at
the beginning where you introduce yourself, you
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make sure they're the right person and
then there's that kind of weird lurch into
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okay, now I'm going to pitch
you. What we found to be working
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recently is just being honest. So
people saying that this is cold. Cool.
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Can you give me thirty seconds to
tell you why I think we can
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benefit your come and the response to
that as being really incredible. People usually
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laughs and they say yeah, sure, and it gives you that permission to
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pitch and and and also can take
a break. Yeah, any time.
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But you see a thing for me, for me, this is a this
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is critical. It's about you know
that turnus to partial always work for me.
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Well, I said go to people
as look, I've actually and picked
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you. He said that I'm curding
you out of fully that I pull from
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discover that orgain. I'm going to
meet the same pitch as you as I've
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done with the tails or thousand people
at a spoke to before you and my
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manager told means the number a game, and my manager told me that if
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I speak to if I do a
hundred and twenty calls today, I will
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speak to five of you and one
of you will say yes to me.
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You know, it's not truly and
I think that's maybe some sometimes why the
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cold caller not test? And also
there is nothing more frustrating that someone could
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call you and they cut they don't
tell you why. You know, they
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just eat excited, go on and
on alone and the speak and the speak
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in your waiting is okay. What, what is it you know? Because
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let's go to the point of telling
me. What are the screw reason why
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I should take a meeting with you? With all the screason why you think
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you can benefit me? Show me
that you've researched me, show me that
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you're unders on my role, show
me that yournder on my challenges, and
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I'm going to give you the time. You'RE gonna get a meeting with me
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if you're relevant, you know,
I don't care, but because we want
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to discuss further. But if you
are just cool calling me and I know
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that you're gonna trade, what the
only thing you're going to try to do
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is to give me a pitch without
knowing why I am, without you even
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check me out. You don't know
what my background is, but you can
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speak about my challenge. is thinking
that you know everybody's the same. This
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is poor and this is what I'm
really losing patients with people you know.
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I know my name is Ahnia.
Do you have five minutes today? No,
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I don't, because you know you
speen the wrong question. What you
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should tell me is say, Hey, you know, my name is Joe
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and look, really appreciate this is
a called cold, but research and I
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think I've got something to deliver to
you. In fact, I've got a
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beliefs for a reason why I think
we should take a meeting together, because
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I think we can benefits around some
issues I believe you are facing. So
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from my experience and working with people
like yourself and doing my research on you,
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I believe that you may be so
far from this, that, that
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and that. Well, as an
organization, this is what with one line
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or two line, I don't go
into details. And you know, based
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on the street changes that are discussed, on average, the value at all.
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You know average clients we get.
Is this, that, that and
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that. Now you are telling me
if this is the moving the needle or
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not for you. If it's moving
the needle and you think it will help
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you to look better on your organization
or that actually fighting a battle that you've
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got in your agenda, let's go
and get a meeting. If you tell
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me, look too busy at the
moment. Got This God, that don't
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have the time to speak to you
and, quite frankly, won't move the
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needle. The shoe is not the
stone is not beg enough in my shoe.
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So you know, saving me five
million is nothing for me because I'm
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just such a bidog getting big organization
that you know it doesn't mean nothing.
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It's not for spending one hour with
you, then I'll leave you a lot.
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But being able to articulate that quickly, having done your research, being
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able to address the person that you
are taught. You may not be that
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direct, but yeah, appreciate Stephen. What about you? Any unusual technique?
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Anything that made you smile? Love
crapy, I mean I I do
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weird things in my cold outreach,
especially with my my emails. I mean
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I've I've learned from from one of
my coaches visual prospecting. Justin Michael had
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a huge Webinar on this. Ven
Diagrams, like if your tool consolidates other
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tools within their text act, you
can make like three concentric circles and which
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tools would go on the outside and
then yours in the middle, just to
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kind of send is like a reply
to your thread, to give them like
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a visual perspective of like hey,
we're going to take all these tools and
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put it into one place. Type
of thing is good. Katerina actually tagged
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me in a post the other day
again from Justin Michael. He's all over
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Linkedin, apparently, but he had
somebody that had reached out to him and
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told him that they just facetime dropped
into the president of a company's phone and
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for cold outreach and got him on
facetime and ended up scheduling a meeting with
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him via facetime as a part of
like one of his methods, like in
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his triple outreach. So like he
he said, because I know the guy
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but he's Batman at this point,
I can't say who he is, and
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he called them, got red buttons
so like forwarded automatically and then he called
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him right back on facetime and the
guy picked up and was like Oh,
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what do you want? Like but
that. I think those two are the
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biggest things that I've seen recently that
it's become fraid out of a ure.
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I telliver, I think that's that's
a really bit int resive. But you
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know, why not? If it
worked? Yeah, I think we know
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we always have to think about the
customer. I experience as well, from
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my perspective as well. I think
you know that. You know, don't
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get a conversation. Don't try to
convince someone to buy something they don't need.
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I think it's a simple as an
of the day. You know,
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you just got to do your work
and manage to speak to the do your
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qualification at the company level, qualification
at the accord at the contact level.
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If you speaking to the right company
and the right person, tell them what
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you think you can do for them. Tell them you know, I believe
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that's your situation in this and that, and this is the new world,
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that I can do for you.
Make them travel and dreaming a Disney movie.
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You know, you've got like a
you've got you've got the the old
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world and the new world and all
that. But yeah, I think the
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face same thing. A bit be
store preserve, but to me. But
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I guess you know, if it's
someone who's got something good to tell you,
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you'll be like worker. Well,
you've been persistent and you've been good
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when you spoke to me, but
I think if you do that and you
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are not good when you speak the
individual, you've got my great, great
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great that one. Yeah, I
don't think it's, you know, from
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a brain perspect you, I don't
think a lot of our clients will support
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that if we are not having a
killer pitch and something to deliver of,
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you know, very tangible value can
of lust. Question for you is,
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and coming back a little bit to
Covid, and we don't shower you all
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fed up with them, fed up
with it, but is there anything that
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you think has changed drastically? I
mean you covered some of it, Steven,
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already, in some of our adapted
but but you think there is anything
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that have changed drastically in our teams
prospection, if our door, any KPA
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that you've seen changing and you know
any in the adaptation? Basically, are
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you gears? I've been from.
Think probably it's the response. Obviously people
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working from home, they're more likely
to pick up the phone or look at
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their emails. So that has been
an uptick in response. It's added another
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objection that we have to handle,
which is, Oh, you know,
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covid kind of put everything in spanner
in the works, if you like,
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but it's also been a great kind
of instigator for a lot of conversations,
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particularly where technology has been a massive, massive support in these kind of remote
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working times. I guess it's it's
how do you how do you adapt your
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message to to what's actually going on
in the world and why it's more relevant?
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Ever, that doesn't work for all
everything, of course, but it's
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kind of the response to certain technologies
has been increased based on the need for
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it. I guess makes sense.
Makes Sense. What about your St if
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I think it? This is just
for me personally, but I think as
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my prospecting change, I got more
at targeted. So in terms of like
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the level of people that I was
reaching out to, I wouldn't say I'm
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doing less calls, but I'm doing
more touches overall, since I'm focusing on
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tripling, like I said, leading
the leading the prospects down the bread crumbs.
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I think in terms of my overall
volume of prospects that I'm reaching out
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to on a daily basis might be
a little bit less, but the conversations
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are much better. And then I've
also I've also taken a multi threading approach.
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So, like, for the particular
client that I'm working for right now
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is focused on hiring thing and things
and with their with their tooling. So
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I've been going out and reaching out
to hiring managers within organizations to see if
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there's any bottlenecks on their ends that
I could ultimately take to the talent groups
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and basically going with a warm conversation
instead of a cold, appear cold conversation.
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So I think that's if that's the
one thing I could suggest to anybody
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is find out who could else but
could potentially be an outlier in terms of
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benefits from your solution and thread those
people into the conversation, but change your
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messaging to what they would potentially be
seeing. Shup. That makes sense,
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but I think, I think you're
right. I mean time of volumes,
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you know, average clients of probably
seen around thirty to fouty pills and of
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their addressable market not being addressable anymore. You know, you'd have the like
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of American now lines, British always
a false so so l not the doing
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great at the moment. We didn't
really want to invest into new stuff.
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If it's not the mess stuff,
then you would have obviously your dertel chain
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being d was saying what took US
twelve months to build to six months to
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absolutely destroy, and then obviously they're
not doing very well at the moment and
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all that is. You know,
even companies like Hugle, you know they
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must have had suffered relatively from from
the makes. I think it is a
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lot of verticles that have suffered so
much that they are difficult to address now.
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So added the prime target that you
want to go after, when you
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know that they maybe they may,
they may suffer from budget fres and stuff
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like that, probably not. So
with what you've got left, you've got
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to be more. I can't based
driven. You've got to be smart,
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you've got to do your research,
you need to make sure that when you
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engage with people, you are convince
yourself that you know you have a killer
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message deliver to them, because if
you don't have we weight would you engage
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with them in the first place?
And and I think you know, to
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your points. Even in a way, I think he's kind of normal to
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have less activity. But I think
less activity is not an issue because I
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never saw that what we do is
a volume game. Always so that what
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we do is a quality game.
It's about it's about what you can bring
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to people and it's about having,
you know, what I would say,
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smart conversation with the prospect and and
the prospect saying no and articulating why it's
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a no is as valuable as a
prospect saying yes. Of course the cell
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00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:52.799
steam may not agree with that,
your clients may not agree with that,
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but from a perspective, is job
done. If you don't, that account
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00:21:56.920 --> 00:21:57.880
is a no go. It's so
no go. Let's move on to the
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next one. Great, so so. Yeah, I think. I think
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sometimes less. Let's see small in
the in my perspective, if it's if
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it's if it's a small approach.
Now we getting to the end of the
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PODCAST, guys. So if anyone
wants to get in touch with you,
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00:22:11.430 --> 00:22:15.230
was to was the best way to
get to Lod of you guys? Primary
327
00:22:15.269 --> 00:22:18.779
on Linkedin. Should you message graves
simple? What about your Steve? And
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00:22:18.819 --> 00:22:22.380
I'm sure you use Linkedin as whatever, famunts. Oh Yeah, I've definitely
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00:22:22.420 --> 00:22:27.259
use linkedin. My My link is
backslat or forward slash, the sales weasel,
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00:22:27.859 --> 00:22:30.569
and then I also have a branded
email that you could reach me out
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00:22:30.569 --> 00:22:36.210
at. Is the sales weasel at
gmailcom. All right, says whizzles.
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Thank you very much for that.
Well, guys, it was an absolute
333
00:22:38.130 --> 00:22:41.890
pleasure to have jam the bus gets
to the great convuls station. Thanks for
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00:22:41.970 --> 00:22:45.359
your inputs and, yeah, again, great to have young. This was
335
00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:49.839
a thank you very much. operatics
has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for
336
00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:56.279
technology companies worldwide. While the traditional
concepts of building and managing inside sales teams
337
00:22:56.359 --> 00:23:00.630
in house has existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of
338
00:23:00.750 --> 00:23:07.470
focus, agility and scale required in
today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology
339
00:23:07.509 --> 00:23:14.980
sales. See How operatics can help
your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet.
340
00:23:15.819 --> 00:23:19.220
You've been listening to be tob revenue
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341
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an episode, subscribe to the show
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342
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so much for listening. Until next
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