89: How to Win at International Expansion & Outbound Sales w/ Alfie Marsh

October 22, 2020 00:24:27
89: How to Win at International Expansion & Outbound Sales w/ Alfie Marsh
B2B Revenue Acceleration
89: How to Win at International Expansion & Outbound Sales w/ Alfie Marsh

Oct 22 2020 | 00:24:27

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Show Notes

When it comes to international expansion,outbound sales is the quickest way to generate pipeline and revenue.

In this episode of B2B Revenue Acceleration, our host Aurelien Mottier interviews Alfie Marsh, Head of US Sales at Spendesk, about  the importance of outbound sales when a company is expanding internationally.

We talked about the SDR role in building pipeline as well as their importance in assessing product-market fit when a company is expanding into new territories.  

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

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Episode Transcript

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.920 --> 00:00:05.960 You were listening to be the B Revenue Acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software 2 00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:10.150 executive stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's 3 00:00:10.189 --> 00:00:14.230 get into the show. Hi, welcome to be to be revenue acceleration. 4 00:00:14.509 --> 00:00:17.789 My name is aim with you and I'm here today with Alfie Marsh Ed, 5 00:00:17.910 --> 00:00:20.829 of US cells at spend desk. How are you doing today, Alfie? 6 00:00:20.949 --> 00:00:23.219 I'm doing very well. Thank you. How are you doing? Yes, 7 00:00:23.300 --> 00:00:26.620 we want different time zines at the moment as well. What't we absolutely you 8 00:00:26.780 --> 00:00:29.579 know, I'm doing great, great, great, grade. It's a beautiful 9 00:00:29.620 --> 00:00:32.859 day here in the UK. Beginning of the winters is getting a bit cold, 10 00:00:32.859 --> 00:00:35.140 but the sun is out, so nothing to complain about. While you 11 00:00:35.219 --> 00:00:39.570 base today, I'm in San Francisco, so this is the first September to 12 00:00:39.609 --> 00:00:42.969 November period I've actually had whilst I've been here, and this is the best 13 00:00:43.049 --> 00:00:46.530 time of the year appoute. So we've got blue skies, nice son the 14 00:00:46.609 --> 00:00:49.810 weather's good and it does make me laugh every time I look back at my 15 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:53.600 friends and family in France and the UK getting a wrap top for the cold. 16 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:56.119 Yeah, well, you know, we actually have an office in Sonos 17 00:00:56.399 --> 00:00:59.920 and when we got down the bay area, we actually I like to drive 18 00:00:59.960 --> 00:01:03.469 a few miles downways even moss and now you can. You can get called 19 00:01:03.549 --> 00:01:07.069 sometimes in San Francisco, but there you go. I'll discussion today is focusing 20 00:01:07.109 --> 00:01:11.989 on international expansion and I'll dance sells. But before we go into the conversation, 21 00:01:11.230 --> 00:01:15.269 would you mind just telling us a little bit more about yourself, Alfie, 22 00:01:15.310 --> 00:01:18.549 as well as the company you represents, pend desk. Yeah, absolutely 23 00:01:18.700 --> 00:01:21.500 so. Yeah, my name's happen more so I've been with spend desk for 24 00:01:21.540 --> 00:01:26.620 about three years now. SPINNESK is a Paris Bonn company, now intern national. 25 00:01:26.780 --> 00:01:30.540 We have offices in London, Paris, Berlin and San Francisco, although 26 00:01:30.700 --> 00:01:33.769 many of us are working remote, as I'm sure many people are. When 27 00:01:33.810 --> 00:01:37.890 I join the company we were around twenty employees. Since then we're now about 28 00:01:38.010 --> 00:01:41.609 two hundred and twenty plus. We've been growing around about three hundred percent year 29 00:01:41.689 --> 00:01:45.129 on year. It's been a pretty exciting journey. That sounds good, sounds 30 00:01:45.170 --> 00:01:47.719 wonderful. And in them of your solution, what is it that you bring 31 00:01:47.799 --> 00:01:51.359 to the market? Yeah, so we help companies spend to make payments in 32 00:01:51.400 --> 00:01:57.120 the workplace. So we empower employees to securely spend the company's money through smart 33 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:00.670 payment methods like virtual and physical cards that are connected to an online platform, 34 00:02:00.709 --> 00:02:07.310 which helps managers and finance teams automate the month end close and reconciliation. Good, 35 00:02:07.670 --> 00:02:09.069 saving a lot of time. That's wonderful. So thanks for that and 36 00:02:09.189 --> 00:02:14.509 fee. I know you are big advocate for our bound cells as an instruments 37 00:02:14.710 --> 00:02:17.659 and a way for paper generation, especially when it comes to expending into new 38 00:02:17.699 --> 00:02:21.979 market. So you would be good to end up some more about your experience 39 00:02:22.099 --> 00:02:27.659 of international expansion and our you CDs Dr Rule the Dr Rules to the people 40 00:02:27.699 --> 00:02:30.210 who are, I guess, responsible for the top of the funnel in this 41 00:02:30.370 --> 00:02:36.449 process. Yeah, I mean one hundred percent critical part of the process as 42 00:02:36.530 --> 00:02:39.330 part of any go to market, and I think that outbound cells in particular 43 00:02:39.569 --> 00:02:44.090 is probably the most critical for a couple of reasons. If you look at 44 00:02:44.210 --> 00:02:49.319 the difference between inbounds Lee generation and outbound it's kind of the difference between fishing 45 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:53.199 and spear hunting. So fishing is you cast a net out which your marketing 46 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:55.759 you catch a bunch of fish. which are the needs and the SCI will 47 00:02:55.800 --> 00:03:00.349 have to go through and figure out which ones are appropriate for you and then 48 00:03:00.430 --> 00:03:04.590 pass them on qualify the soone, whereas an outbound SDR is more like a 49 00:03:04.629 --> 00:03:08.830 spear hunter. You have a predefined target that you're going after, ideal customer 50 00:03:08.909 --> 00:03:13.379 profile and in particular segment, and then you're going to go and hunt down 51 00:03:13.819 --> 00:03:17.180 that game until you can get an opportunity. Now that's quite an important distinction 52 00:03:17.300 --> 00:03:22.139 between the two for go to market, because for any go to market there 53 00:03:22.259 --> 00:03:27.330 is a phase of customer discovery. You start with hypotheses and assumptions and you 54 00:03:27.449 --> 00:03:30.250 then need to validate those. So you need to be able to say, 55 00:03:30.449 --> 00:03:32.330 for example, our product is not going to work the same way in the 56 00:03:32.490 --> 00:03:37.409 US as it is in Europe because this market has a particular nuance to it. 57 00:03:37.610 --> 00:03:39.289 So you take your hypothesis and you need to validate that. Now that's 58 00:03:39.530 --> 00:03:44.560 very hard to do if you're using nets and in Bal leads, because you 59 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:49.080 have much less control over the companies you're actually going after. So, in 60 00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:53.039 short, the SDR function is the lifeblood of any go to market because it 61 00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:57.590 allows you to be agile, flexible and be very specific in your targeting. 62 00:03:57.750 --> 00:04:00.870 Yeah, I agree with you. I think it's also interesting you're the but'scally 63 00:04:00.870 --> 00:04:03.310 when it comes to extension. has kind of getting into Maso gone question now, 64 00:04:03.509 --> 00:04:09.229 but we find a cultural defferences from one region to another. The adoption 65 00:04:09.349 --> 00:04:13.900 of solution, the maturity to a specific solution to be deferent from one country 66 00:04:13.939 --> 00:04:16.220 to another. And I believe that you know, a particularly for the outbound 67 00:04:16.339 --> 00:04:19.579 as dl, so the people who are are building up the message, trying 68 00:04:19.579 --> 00:04:25.490 to identify the right person in which vertical and kind of identifying the cells plays. 69 00:04:25.769 --> 00:04:28.449 That will be successful. So then you can scale with with cells, 70 00:04:28.449 --> 00:04:30.490 automation and all that. I think the AUTBONASD is really key, dy, 71 00:04:30.649 --> 00:04:33.089 and I do agree with you. I in fact, I use exactly some 72 00:04:33.209 --> 00:04:38.129 analogy of fishing and hunting. And I think you know, when you are 73 00:04:38.170 --> 00:04:42.160 doing in bound response management we also use a different type of training for the 74 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:46.680 resources. So technically in bound will be a bit more technical conversation. Why? 75 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:49.079 Because you're already you're already looking at something, you're already on the market 76 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:51.720 for. I don't know if you want to buy your watch or fridge or 77 00:04:51.949 --> 00:04:56.069 car to start get accounts will be engaging with you. When we are doing 78 00:04:56.110 --> 00:05:00.430 the inbound response management, were really seeing prospect really coming in with questions straight 79 00:05:00.470 --> 00:05:03.149 away. They want us to get technical, they want us to go into 80 00:05:03.149 --> 00:05:08.540 a details while we are doing the outbound prospecting is much more of a challenge 81 00:05:08.579 --> 00:05:13.740 our cells approach. So validating the business needs understanding what those people are doing, 82 00:05:13.899 --> 00:05:17.180 how they're doing it currently and basically creating the demon in Sea of responding 83 00:05:17.220 --> 00:05:20.379 to the demands. A hundred percent agree with you and kind of fling to 84 00:05:20.449 --> 00:05:24.610 that point. We know that. You know obviously the D SDR is a 85 00:05:24.689 --> 00:05:29.009 key role in building pipeline, but they can also be a great way to 86 00:05:29.170 --> 00:05:32.689 keep your finger on the pearls in relation to product market fit and how the 87 00:05:32.730 --> 00:05:36.160 market is receiving your message or solution. But what are your thoughts on that 88 00:05:36.199 --> 00:05:40.560 and now do you adapt on that with your team? Yeah, absolutely. 89 00:05:40.759 --> 00:05:45.040 I mean they an str video that can it be the eyes and is or 90 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:48.959 your company in the market. They're going to have that vistle response from prospects 91 00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:51.870 and clients on the phone and this is one thing where I think the go 92 00:05:51.990 --> 00:05:57.709 to markets, actually cold calling as a channel is great because you can get 93 00:05:57.790 --> 00:06:00.629 these responses in real time and really understand what that fit is. So, 94 00:06:00.790 --> 00:06:03.939 for example, there's a few different things that you can do when it pivoting 95 00:06:04.019 --> 00:06:08.139 in the go to market. You can pivot your product and iterate that to 96 00:06:08.259 --> 00:06:12.259 PMF. You can pivot your segment so who are you going after? And 97 00:06:12.339 --> 00:06:15.180 then you can also pivot your positioning. And so that's how do you position 98 00:06:15.300 --> 00:06:19.810 and sell your product or services? On the cell side, the segmentation and 99 00:06:20.009 --> 00:06:25.290 the position in is very much a function of the cells team and that position 100 00:06:25.410 --> 00:06:28.730 in is a variable which people, I think, overlook. You can have 101 00:06:28.850 --> 00:06:31.009 the same product and make a slight tweak in the terms of the way that 102 00:06:31.089 --> 00:06:34.480 you explain your value proposition or the way that you're pitching it, and that 103 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:38.879 can actually help get you into a product market fit because, especially in a 104 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:44.199 new market where your product or services never existed before, people aren't very knowledgeable 105 00:06:44.199 --> 00:06:46.439 about your solution. They don't know you, who you are, you you 106 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:48.709 don't exist. So you have to sell the vision and the problem and get 107 00:06:48.709 --> 00:06:53.110 them to understand that, and an SDR is the perfect way for you to 108 00:06:53.230 --> 00:06:56.910 get that real time feedback and see what works and what does it. Yeah, 109 00:06:57.149 --> 00:07:00.189 again, you know, he's been very, very, very very varied 110 00:07:00.389 --> 00:07:02.819 all those points for of other course, of covied NAT. End of Bendinique, 111 00:07:02.819 --> 00:07:05.779 particularly at the outset, as we are trained to figure out that you 112 00:07:05.860 --> 00:07:09.740 know what to do in the luck down with people still pick up the food? 113 00:07:09.779 --> 00:07:12.300 And will people still respond to a man and in fact, in the 114 00:07:12.379 --> 00:07:15.459 territory you are in in the US. What we realize, and we did 115 00:07:15.500 --> 00:07:17.449 a bit of a study that we then share with our clients and come of 116 00:07:17.569 --> 00:07:21.370 best practice, but we look at response rate per states and the states of 117 00:07:21.689 --> 00:07:27.170 California and particularly places like San Francisco Bay area, but also New York, 118 00:07:27.209 --> 00:07:30.240 Metro Boston. At some points where absolutely horrendous. Literally you could not get 119 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:33.399 all of anyone. People will not respond to email. I think the state 120 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:41.240 of scare alerts confusion was really driving people to not really respond or to not 121 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:44.389 really move, and people wor kind of happy to just raise everything for a 122 00:07:44.470 --> 00:07:47.550 little while and wait for government or for institution to can of tell them what 123 00:07:47.750 --> 00:07:50.110 to do or at least get a little bit of light at the end of 124 00:07:50.149 --> 00:07:54.589 the tunnel. But at this time we would see some other places like no 125 00:07:54.709 --> 00:07:58.980 Dallas, sounds of the US still being very, very, very reactive and 126 00:07:59.019 --> 00:08:01.579 in fact, you know, probably a bit more responsive than they were before, 127 00:08:01.699 --> 00:08:05.779 and that's been evolving over time and we also saw the medium changing. 128 00:08:07.180 --> 00:08:11.699 So when the lockdown started, linkedin was fantastic see that everybody was on Linkedin. 129 00:08:11.939 --> 00:08:15.889 Everybody was on fire absolutely. You know, Linkedin was great, and 130 00:08:16.009 --> 00:08:18.490 then came June, Linkedin wasn't as good and people are Cann of fed up 131 00:08:18.529 --> 00:08:22.290 with Linkedin. And then everybody was back at home, their fun line from 132 00:08:22.329 --> 00:08:24.889 the office would be then directed to the mobile and, you know, things 133 00:08:24.889 --> 00:08:28.600 kind of resume to some certain level of normality and I think now we are 134 00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:31.440 in a position where people know what to lock down looks like. So if 135 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:35.480 we were to go to a second lockdown, certain lockdown or whatever, it 136 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:37.240 could be a, let's hope, nuts but if that was to happen, 137 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:39.919 I think they would not be a fear of what's going on. So that 138 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:43.269 phrase would not happen again. But it was an interesting things to witness. 139 00:08:43.389 --> 00:08:46.710 And with all the people that we've got in the trenches as the air speaking 140 00:08:46.789 --> 00:08:50.269 to prospect now, when you've got two hundred of them on the daily basis 141 00:08:50.269 --> 00:08:54.629 speaking to prospect you can very much kind of get a feel for the market, 142 00:08:54.669 --> 00:08:56.179 get to feel for what's working, what's not working, what's a nice 143 00:08:56.220 --> 00:09:00.740 to all what is a must have, and those guys have been absolutely instrumental 144 00:09:01.100 --> 00:09:05.779 in us under something what was going on, basically and US adapting to what 145 00:09:05.019 --> 00:09:09.779 was going on, influencing the our clients who are thinking to change the way 146 00:09:09.820 --> 00:09:13.889 we're working and basically still managed to produce a certain level of results in in 147 00:09:13.970 --> 00:09:16.009 a very testing market. So Yeah, a SD ICE KEI and and I 148 00:09:16.090 --> 00:09:20.649 do agree with you in the on the focus and the trenches and they actually 149 00:09:20.690 --> 00:09:22.809 see the real stuff. Getting an understanding of what they're seeing on a daily 150 00:09:22.850 --> 00:09:28.279 basis is critical. And so I think you mentioned in your intro that spenders, 151 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:31.159 who was pretty much twenty people when you join, and now, on 152 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:35.120 circule little bit more than two hundred people. So I would have expected that 153 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:39.029 the face of your SDR team up fundamentally changed. And in fact we do 154 00:09:39.149 --> 00:09:43.269 believe that you've got an SDA function that should be set up for startup and 155 00:09:43.350 --> 00:09:46.350 as Dr Function that should be set up for what I would call a scale 156 00:09:46.350 --> 00:09:48.149 up, and I would put you in that category. So yeah, what 157 00:09:48.350 --> 00:09:54.179 is your perception of that change from an SDR role perspective? As the company 158 00:09:54.259 --> 00:09:58.700 is growing, as the company is evolving and obviously becoming more potentially process driven 159 00:09:58.740 --> 00:10:03.500 then started driven? Yeah, yeah, that's that's a great question. So 160 00:10:03.139 --> 00:10:09.169 fundamentally the role is exactly the same. The outcome is the same. The 161 00:10:09.610 --> 00:10:16.250 STR is there to help connect to your company and create meaningful conversations with potential 162 00:10:16.450 --> 00:10:20.730 buyers. So that fundamentally will stay the same regardless of the stage. But 163 00:10:20.809 --> 00:10:22.799 you know, I think in the company, however, the context in which 164 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:26.440 that is operating is very, very different. So, for example, where 165 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:30.960 we are in the US at Spendersk, we right at the beginning of our 166 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:35.440 journey in our core markets in France, the UK and Germany, with further 167 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:37.110 advances, so in more up in that scale up stage. And then to 168 00:10:37.230 --> 00:10:41.629 a blue chip, you know, company that has a huge SDR team of 169 00:10:41.669 --> 00:10:43.909 an established marketing stage points to be very different. So initial stage, like 170 00:10:43.990 --> 00:10:48.389 I said before, you have to validate a lot of unknown assumptions and so 171 00:10:48.750 --> 00:10:52.779 it's kind of your building the plane whilst you're flying it, and the kind 172 00:10:52.820 --> 00:10:56.700 of mentality that these types of SDRs have to have is very, very different. 173 00:10:56.779 --> 00:11:00.899 They are not going to come into a process that they know works, 174 00:11:01.059 --> 00:11:03.730 and so you can't turn up to work, do your activity and expect to 175 00:11:03.850 --> 00:11:07.690 have results. I don't think anyone could do that ever really, but even 176 00:11:07.730 --> 00:11:11.250 more so at this particular stage, because you have to be able to constantly 177 00:11:11.250 --> 00:11:13.490 iterate an adapt you have to build the message and you have to understand which 178 00:11:13.529 --> 00:11:18.370 problems are really speaking to people, what element of your vision or solution is 179 00:11:18.529 --> 00:11:22.039 getting people emotionally invested in the product. Now that's very different to a maybe 180 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:26.480 a scale up stage in the company where, for example, in France, 181 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:30.440 in our core market, we know exactly what the value proposition is and what 182 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:33.029 works, we know exactly which segments and we know exactly their pains and why 183 00:11:33.029 --> 00:11:37.230 they're going to buy versus us in the competition. So it really is a 184 00:11:37.309 --> 00:11:41.789 case of the process itself is more validated, so there is less need to 185 00:11:41.070 --> 00:11:43.710 build the plane, you know whilst you're flying it, and it's more a 186 00:11:43.830 --> 00:11:48.620 case of execution. And so that changes and this is one reason why, 187 00:11:48.620 --> 00:11:50.500 I think, you know, we've had success in being able to hire great 188 00:11:50.620 --> 00:11:54.620 scurs early on in the company for go to markets, because there's this element 189 00:11:54.740 --> 00:11:58.379 of you have a lot of ownership over construction, a process and being a 190 00:11:58.460 --> 00:12:03.529 part of that vision, whereas other strs and other candidates may just not really 191 00:12:03.730 --> 00:12:05.970 want to be part of that. They want to just turn up, work 192 00:12:05.090 --> 00:12:09.610 hard and know that they're going to get paid from producing opportunities at the end 193 00:12:09.610 --> 00:12:13.450 of the month. So they're better suited to being in an organization with a 194 00:12:13.570 --> 00:12:18.039 validated, repeatable process. Yeah, that next perfect sense. And then if 195 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:22.000 you want to move on to international expansion. Now, global international expansion. 196 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:24.759 We witness it for many year and we know our difficulty it can be, 197 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:28.840 particularly for our start up coming from Europe. So, like you, geze 198 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:33.070 France, or even his stray start up, we've got a fair through is 199 00:12:33.110 --> 00:12:37.350 freely customers to go and tack hold the US market. Okay, such a 200 00:12:37.470 --> 00:12:39.950 white market is such a you know, where do you start, basically, 201 00:12:39.990 --> 00:12:43.710 and of course what people tend to do is to get one some of that 202 00:12:43.830 --> 00:12:46.340 top gays, to go and fly to relocate their like. Probably spend ex 203 00:12:46.379 --> 00:12:50.100 done with yourself. But I'd like to understand about your lesson learned. You 204 00:12:50.220 --> 00:12:52.659 know, and I don't know if you can address you know, some of 205 00:12:52.700 --> 00:12:56.019 the challenges that you can across, some of the opportunity that you've seen. 206 00:12:56.220 --> 00:13:00.570 You know things that you've seen. You've seen being easier to fer. So 207 00:13:00.649 --> 00:13:03.769 I kind of a general feeling ready. So if you can empty your bag 208 00:13:03.809 --> 00:13:07.129 about that there would be great, because we know our difficult it is right 209 00:13:07.250 --> 00:13:09.730 and we know it because we are being a few clients to do it. 210 00:13:09.809 --> 00:13:13.519 It's about getting the first your reference. You're not the US company, US 211 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:16.840 PROSPECTING TO L Bane from US organization, when you are start up from France. 212 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.200 You know do this. You in the best in the same way. 213 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:22.759 I don't know. So it'd be good to get just your souls of that. 214 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:26.230 In term of challenges and opportunity that you've come across since you're relocated in 215 00:13:26.309 --> 00:13:31.470 San Francisco and you've been pushing spenders in the US. There are so many 216 00:13:31.590 --> 00:13:35.029 topics that we could go in deep dives and podcasts of their own, I 217 00:13:35.110 --> 00:13:37.950 think, on this one, but maybe one context. I think in terms 218 00:13:37.950 --> 00:13:41.779 of challenging and with hindsight, I think many of the problems that you face 219 00:13:41.379 --> 00:13:46.100 become much easier when you're aware that you're in the problem. It's like being 220 00:13:46.139 --> 00:13:50.179 in the eye of the storm of a hurricane. It's very hard to see 221 00:13:50.179 --> 00:13:52.659 that you're there when you're in the midst of it. And so what do 222 00:13:52.700 --> 00:13:56.169 I mean by that? So let's say, for example, your tactic is 223 00:13:56.250 --> 00:14:00.690 to launch your product from Europe in the US and you're going to send the 224 00:14:00.809 --> 00:14:03.769 sales team and acquisition team and hope that you've got product market fit. And 225 00:14:03.889 --> 00:14:07.850 then, obviously, if you do and you have repeatable lead generation and close 226 00:14:07.929 --> 00:14:13.360 in, and then you kind of skip all the initial discovery stages and validation 227 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:16.559 stages and you go directly into execution phase where you invest in growth. You 228 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:20.360 can invest in your more SDRs, you can invest in more cant exectors and 229 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:24.710 you just focused on growing now up. If you don't have a product market 230 00:14:24.870 --> 00:14:28.789 fear and you don't understand the variables that you have within your control, it 231 00:14:28.830 --> 00:14:31.309 can be very frustrating, it can be very challenging because you have a sense 232 00:14:31.350 --> 00:14:35.629 of constantly failing. And I think that my biggest learning is you have to 233 00:14:37.110 --> 00:14:41.460 reshape what you understand to be a failure and, for example, to not 234 00:14:41.620 --> 00:14:43.059 close deals or not have a product market fit is not, to say, 235 00:14:43.100 --> 00:14:46.299 a failure, as long as you realize that your goal, your objective, 236 00:14:46.539 --> 00:14:50.220 is to validate a hypothesis and if you haven't got a product market fit, 237 00:14:50.340 --> 00:14:54.289 then it's to execute a different plan to get there. And when you shift 238 00:14:54.330 --> 00:14:58.850 that mentality, it makes the whole experience a lot more enjoyable and you can 239 00:14:58.889 --> 00:15:03.330 also iterate quicker because it means that you won't continue trying to go down one 240 00:15:03.450 --> 00:15:07.009 route that doesn't work. Are you selling to the same segment or selling the 241 00:15:07.049 --> 00:15:11.559 same value proposition? You can identify. Okay, I'm my positioning is off 242 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:13.879 here, so I need to pivot that. And then you change and you 243 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:18.200 iterate quickly and you advanced into a product market fit at a much quicker rate. 244 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:20.429 So does the kind of challenge? What have you seen them off a 245 00:15:20.470 --> 00:15:22.590 box you to do? US Get, you know, once you get the 246 00:15:22.669 --> 00:15:26.789 frost your reference easy become easier. Well, I think one thing that's really 247 00:15:26.909 --> 00:15:31.190 interesting is just the way different people and companies by software. You know, 248 00:15:31.509 --> 00:15:35.259 in spend us we have at the German market, France, UK and then 249 00:15:35.259 --> 00:15:39.179 the United States, and aren't on two aspects. Germany United States couldn't be 250 00:15:39.220 --> 00:15:43.220 further apart in almost every way to culture, way they buy and so on 251 00:15:43.299 --> 00:15:46.220 and so forth, and then the France and UK kind of in the middle. 252 00:15:46.379 --> 00:15:50.049 With the US, for example, there is a lot more emphasis on 253 00:15:50.490 --> 00:15:54.370 storytelling. How do you pitch your vision? And I feel that it's easier 254 00:15:54.450 --> 00:16:00.169 to get in people emotionally brought in to your idea through storytelling and vision, 255 00:16:00.370 --> 00:16:04.240 without necessarily having the details of every piece of the product in a hundred percent 256 00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:07.519 up to scratch, versus, if you look on flip end of Germany, 257 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:11.480 storytelling just doesn't really work in the German market. They want to know facts 258 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:14.879 and they want to have the bullet points, Bang, Bang, Bang, 259 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:17.799 yes or no tick boxes, and that's kind of how it's done. So 260 00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:22.070 I think that there's always opportunity as long as you see the context that you're 261 00:16:22.110 --> 00:16:26.350 in and you can pivot an adapt and really focus your approach on leverage in 262 00:16:26.429 --> 00:16:29.590 that. Yeah, thanks, perfect sense, and let's question for you and 263 00:16:29.750 --> 00:16:33.100 feel we spoke about this. Yeah, and it's YEA, in the context 264 00:16:33.179 --> 00:16:37.740 of in donational expansion. If I wasn't this Dr and you know I stuff, 265 00:16:37.820 --> 00:16:41.860 may carry out, what would be just readvised she would give me. 266 00:16:41.299 --> 00:16:45.740 Don't expect to be good from day one. Have a growth mindset. So 267 00:16:45.659 --> 00:16:48.649 expect that you can be good one day, but you have to do the 268 00:16:48.730 --> 00:16:52.090 work to get there. Is the first one. I would be an avid 269 00:16:52.129 --> 00:16:56.610 learner. Read, listen to podcasts like this one. Speak to your peers, 270 00:16:56.929 --> 00:17:00.720 don't just look inside the company for the best practices, speak to peers 271 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:06.319 outside, really make sure that you have created an environment of learning that is 272 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:08.880 going to really accelerate you. And I think the third one is you have 273 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:14.599 to be self critical and self analytical. That means every phone call that you 274 00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:18.670 do, listen to analyze it. Be Your own worst critique. When you 275 00:17:18.750 --> 00:17:22.309 can break down your self and your actions that you do, it's going to 276 00:17:22.390 --> 00:17:25.829 help you de Block yourself a lot quicker and wait for other people to do 277 00:17:25.950 --> 00:17:30.619 it. Were driving exactly at in Donalys's wonderful three foundestic points. But yes, 278 00:17:30.740 --> 00:17:32.660 self teaching. It is keep you know, and that's one thing. 279 00:17:32.740 --> 00:17:36.180 And people are missing sometimes. I don't know if it's generational. I don't 280 00:17:36.220 --> 00:17:38.500 like to speak about million yells, but you know, also people speak about 281 00:17:38.539 --> 00:17:42.140 me and yours and it's funny how sometimes people can get a lot of information. 282 00:17:42.339 --> 00:17:45.609 I'm Swe Evan to what they do is walk, you know, in 283 00:17:45.690 --> 00:17:48.490 term of social media and stuff like that, but then when they don't have 284 00:17:48.609 --> 00:17:51.650 word they need at work, they will point the finger at the manager of 285 00:17:51.730 --> 00:17:53.210 point the finger at the clients and you know, just sell. Well, 286 00:17:53.250 --> 00:17:56.250 the information is actually a realiable everywhere. If you wanted to teach yourself. 287 00:17:56.329 --> 00:18:00.160 You could, but I'm a big believer in self learning and I think your 288 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.039 last point about kind of holding yourself accountable. Look at yourself in the mirror, 289 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:07.079 keep on going. Don't expect to be good from day one. As 290 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:10.400 well, the first point do make sense. If there is a learning curve, 291 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:12.549 and it's almost when you need to find that moment where you click with 292 00:18:12.710 --> 00:18:15.630 the message, when you click with the personnel, where you actually get on 293 00:18:15.789 --> 00:18:19.789 Tho the skin of the prospect and the product become segondary and your knowledge of 294 00:18:19.869 --> 00:18:23.349 the product is not. That's important, but you really haven't on the stunning 295 00:18:23.430 --> 00:18:26.619 of what's happening in the life of the people you are targeting. You have 296 00:18:26.660 --> 00:18:30.140 an understanding of what's happening in the organization and that takes a little bit of 297 00:18:30.259 --> 00:18:33.539 time. Part surely if you are, you know, not a season business 298 00:18:33.619 --> 00:18:37.259 person, as the first time you you target and don't know pharmastical company. 299 00:18:37.339 --> 00:18:41.420 The first time I get to the pharmastical company myself, I had no idea 300 00:18:41.450 --> 00:18:44.529 what was going on in the organization. I just heard they were doing drugs, 301 00:18:44.609 --> 00:18:48.529 but I didn't understand the research and development cycle. I didn't understand the 302 00:18:48.650 --> 00:18:51.890 way they operate, etc. Etc. And as you start speaking to them 303 00:18:51.930 --> 00:18:55.839 and you start having conversation within the seconds, you really start to build up 304 00:18:55.880 --> 00:19:00.079 a picture under stone and appreciate the complexity of these accounts. And then the 305 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:02.680 really ampute to network. And then, you know, if I was to 306 00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:06.759 add one thing, is also use the wall story from every single conversation you've 307 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:10.349 got. You know, learn from each conversation, removing a concussion with Alfie. 308 00:19:10.349 --> 00:19:12.230 Today I'm and learning something from you, and tomorrow I will speak to 309 00:19:12.390 --> 00:19:15.829 Bob, I will say to bug, look, but that's funny what you 310 00:19:15.869 --> 00:19:18.470 say to me, because I spoke to Alphia to compare cold spender skies today 311 00:19:18.509 --> 00:19:21.829 and he was saying that to me. And, you know, getting the 312 00:19:22.029 --> 00:19:25.019 pier to per, I think it's also coming twice the are. My point 313 00:19:25.059 --> 00:19:29.380 here is don't just get education from your managers, in our case the clients 314 00:19:29.619 --> 00:19:32.940 and the managers, because we would have our clients also supporting us and getting 315 00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:36.740 up to speed. But learn from conversation with the prospect go and speak to 316 00:19:36.779 --> 00:19:38.809 the end user. These are the people that will give you the best training 317 00:19:38.849 --> 00:19:42.210 because they will tell you what's upping in their life. And if you know 318 00:19:42.450 --> 00:19:47.130 that, that's the key for the next conversation. So true. I mean 319 00:19:47.210 --> 00:19:49.250 as an str I would love to know how many people do this, if 320 00:19:49.289 --> 00:19:52.920 anyone does this. But if you want to see are joining a company, 321 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:56.000 reach out to your bio persona. So let's say you sell to VPS of 322 00:19:56.079 --> 00:20:00.400 cells. Reach out to a couple of VP the cells and on Linkedin and 323 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:03.920 say, Hey, I just started this job as a star selling to be 324 00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:06.039 piece of cells. I'm not going to try and sell anything, but I 325 00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:10.269 would love to just understand how you work and what you do for a living 326 00:20:10.349 --> 00:20:12.630 and how that's going to relate to my product so that I com bet this 327 00:20:12.670 --> 00:20:15.789 sell to other people. Could we speak for like fifteen minutes? I guarantee 328 00:20:15.789 --> 00:20:19.230 you that a lot of people would be happy to have like an information interview 329 00:20:19.230 --> 00:20:22.660 with you and give you so much information and just advance that. You know, 330 00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:26.059 you don't have to read books on you know, being a BP yourself, 331 00:20:26.140 --> 00:20:29.940 so to speak. But yeah, there's stays so much information out there, 332 00:20:30.059 --> 00:20:32.700 you just have to ask for it. On the thought of degree, 333 00:20:32.700 --> 00:20:36.410 I mean when actually started, it was many moons ago, but I had 334 00:20:36.450 --> 00:20:40.049 zero training. In fact, Linkedin was not even there. I cannot really 335 00:20:40.170 --> 00:20:42.490 little bit my hedge there, but it was thrilling the having people started to 336 00:20:42.529 --> 00:20:45.170 use a linking in the US, but not so much in Europe. So 337 00:20:45.369 --> 00:20:48.410 so it was. It was quite interesting. Is We had to go through 338 00:20:48.450 --> 00:20:52.160 the switch ball and all that, but people are quite helpful and that may 339 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:55.400 have changed a little bit. So I don't know what you would look like 340 00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:59.440 now, but I remember when I first started having people saying no to me 341 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:03.160 and saying no, I'm not interested on and you know, most of them 342 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:04.869 would expect me to go after that. But the question I would ask have 343 00:21:04.990 --> 00:21:08.509 was able. That's very good feedback. Can you tell me why you're not 344 00:21:08.630 --> 00:21:11.589 interesting? Is it what I told you? Is it what I said? 345 00:21:11.670 --> 00:21:14.750 Is it deferd? You've already got to product in place, you know, 346 00:21:14.990 --> 00:21:15.950 and some of them was a while. I don't really have the time and 347 00:21:17.230 --> 00:21:18.059 I would just say, look, I don't want to be too much, 348 00:21:18.059 --> 00:21:22.460 but just satisfy my intellect here by just telling me what's going on, because 349 00:21:22.500 --> 00:21:25.660 you know, I just need to understand what I've done on the need to 350 00:21:25.660 --> 00:21:29.059 under some how we close that conversation. You telling me that you're not interested 351 00:21:29.220 --> 00:21:32.099 is great, but if I don't unders on why, I can't progress and 352 00:21:32.220 --> 00:21:33.250 when you say that to people, they actually said, you know, I'm 353 00:21:33.250 --> 00:21:37.690 going to any tact five mines. And what I realize in that specific occurrence 354 00:21:37.849 --> 00:21:41.730 I was I was representing a company that was called Strie Com and I think 355 00:21:41.769 --> 00:21:44.289 they've been a quil since and all that. So I can probably mention your 356 00:21:44.329 --> 00:21:47.009 name and it was a long time ago. And STRIE COM when B to 357 00:21:47.089 --> 00:21:49.119 be, then they stop going B to be and then they won't be to 358 00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:52.039 be again. And I walked as an SDR for them when they went be 359 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:56.559 to be again. But no one told me that two years before that they 360 00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:02.710 actually left thousands of prospect thousands of clients worldwide with Palettes of kids in the 361 00:22:02.829 --> 00:22:04.109 office, and then you send them an email saying, look, you know 362 00:22:04.109 --> 00:22:07.750 what, we're going to stop doing big be now. So forget about the 363 00:22:07.829 --> 00:22:10.710 service, forget about this, forget about that. We do we can focusing 364 00:22:10.750 --> 00:22:12.869 on something else. See You later and thanks for your custom. So I 365 00:22:12.950 --> 00:22:17.180 had to pick up all that and I was not understanding why people were saying 366 00:22:17.259 --> 00:22:18.539 no to me. We could see all my others, are colleague working on 367 00:22:18.579 --> 00:22:22.539 those other compaign with other our clients being successful. I was like, what's 368 00:22:22.579 --> 00:22:25.980 from? And as soon as I understood that, I incorporated it in my 369 00:22:26.099 --> 00:22:29.380 message and I managed to speak about it. So I managed to tackle the 370 00:22:29.420 --> 00:22:33.089 objection, the nonspoken objection, and I think as yeah, I've always been 371 00:22:33.130 --> 00:22:37.289 a big advocate of if you want to learn how to sell to someone on 372 00:22:37.730 --> 00:22:41.210 the storms, what's happening in their life. It's not about you, it's 373 00:22:41.250 --> 00:22:44.009 not about your product. In fact, nobody cares about all that. People 374 00:22:44.049 --> 00:22:45.759 care about themselves. So going on, there some what's happening for them. 375 00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:51.000 Go and tackle those nonspoken objection. What is it that people don't like in 376 00:22:51.079 --> 00:22:53.799 the approach? What you should not do and adapts. Look in the mirror, 377 00:22:53.799 --> 00:22:57.789 change, don't take anything that people are telling you for granted and try 378 00:22:57.829 --> 00:23:02.829 to adapt for every single conversations. Yeah, big, big vounerful that looking 379 00:23:02.869 --> 00:23:04.950 for. We're getting to the D NFL conversation. We took a little bit 380 00:23:06.069 --> 00:23:08.069 longer than expected to there, but I think we both got a little bit 381 00:23:08.230 --> 00:23:12.099 excited about some of the big recover ut. So what we do at this 382 00:23:12.220 --> 00:23:15.779 point of the conversation? We always ask our guests for what is the best 383 00:23:15.819 --> 00:23:19.259 way to get in touch with them. So if any of our audience would 384 00:23:19.259 --> 00:23:22.059 like to engage. We spend desk and put. Then she discussed your solution 385 00:23:22.220 --> 00:23:27.369 or p've got any French, German, Israeli start up sales guy that are 386 00:23:27.450 --> 00:23:33.089 potentially, you know, looking at international move and conquering the US market? 387 00:23:33.170 --> 00:23:36.970 Basically, if anyone wants to get in touch with you to further that conversational 388 00:23:37.049 --> 00:23:38.529 fee, what's the best way to get all of you? Yeah, so 389 00:23:38.569 --> 00:23:42.440 if any companies that are looking at Pendersk as a product or service, they 390 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:48.920 can go to spend deskcom, as spandeskcom, and they can book in a 391 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:51.400 point with anyone of our reps. if anyone would like to speak to me 392 00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:55.279 directly about things like sales go to market, it's the best way to getting 393 00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:57.829 contact is through Linkedin. Just send me a request and the message and I'll 394 00:23:57.869 --> 00:24:02.349 try my best to reply. Alternatively, you can contact me by my email 395 00:24:02.470 --> 00:24:07.430 on Alfie at spendskcom and Olfa Alfie. That's wonderful. Well, once again, 396 00:24:07.509 --> 00:24:11.579 mini things for your time to day. It was absolutely a pleasure to 397 00:24:11.660 --> 00:24:14.619 have you on the show. Thank you very much. Likewise, you've been 398 00:24:14.660 --> 00:24:19.140 listening to BEDB revenue acceleration to ensure that you never miss an episode subscribe to 399 00:24:19.180 --> 00:24:22.660 the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. 400 00:24:22.700 --> 00:24:23.809 Until next time,

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