Episode Transcript
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You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay
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on the cutting edge of sales and
marketing in their industry. Let's get into
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the show. Hi, welcome to
be to be a revenue acceleration. My
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name is Oenia Muchier and I'm here
today with Mucchia, he say do,
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found the of the biddy school.
How you doing today, Lucia? Very
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good. Thank you right, thanks
for inviting good. Good. So today
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we will be talking about the differences
between cells development and business development, but
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before we get the conversation going,
would you mind introducing yourself in a little
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bit more detail, as well as
the organization you represent, the bed school?
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Absolutely so, Bob. Yeah,
so I'm the founder of the bad
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school, which stands for the Business
Development School, and we are the first
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educational platform entirely dedicated to business development. I launched this company in February twenty
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and nineteen after one year of research, and I did it because I spent
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about now it's thirteen years working in
business development in different sectors, different industries,
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and at some point I kind of
beat a wall with my career.
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In two thousand and seventeen and walk, as I usually do, I started
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learning again, but I figured out
that there wasn't really a place to learn
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business development in structure way and everybody
seemed to be doing it differently. So
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I decided to take on the challenge. I gathered the team around my idea
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and that's where to be the school
started. So we started with the community,
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which then transformed into a blog than
eventually in a proper educational company.
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We do training, we do mentor
shape, we organize events and basically we
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provide all the tools for business developers
and start up founders to learn business development
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in a structure way and become more
effective at this job. Okay, okay,
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so would you say that your platform
is is more dedicated to see US
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arrows looking at setting up the big
team, or do you think is more
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dedicated to the bed person? So
we're going to get to speak about it,
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but as the Avidia idea, idea, whatever you want to call them,
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dare at the end person. So
with the platform following follow. Yeah,
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so at the moment is more targeted
to business development professionals. As start
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off founders and as business development professionals, we well, we really target the
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majority of the people which have from
zero to up to six ten years experience
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in Business Development, and we're actually
currently busy with some partners creating something more
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tailored to the Bob side. We're
currently working on it, so it's nothing
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really ready yet, but our goal
is actually to provide business development solutions to
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all the parties involved, being business
developers. That's exactly what we want to
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do. We want to provide value
of multiple levels. So soon we're going
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to be ready with the BOB offer
as well, but for now that we
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target primarily individual contributors and of course
we help them become better at their job,
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and soon we're going to help companies
with their needs as well. Good,
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my good. Let's of Fox on
the in the plan, which is
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contestic. So, as per the
topic of this conversation is quite obvious,
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but we know there is ongoing conversation
in the market. But the difference between
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cells development and Business Development, I
mean, I've got to be honest with
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you, Lu Chia, I've lost
the truck. I'm want to meet with
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someone. I just ask them how
do you could it, trying to undersand
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the definition of what they got it
what? And then I'm changing my lexill,
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my my my, the word and
using I'm ad up, I decided
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to be a chameleon in that concept
because I cannot plus struck. But we
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don't, you know, Indus B
to be tech world. Some company referred
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to as DA or Bidea. I
mentioned Leda, I mentioned ADA, and
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everybody trying to segregate the different function
of this individual quite quite a lot.
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So what are your thoughts on the
topic? Yeah, so I love this
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topic actually and for me was actually
one of the first things I learned when
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I started taking little bit more into
the business development word. So backstory about
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my experience in Business Development. I
really ended up randomly in this field because
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my background bus in international relations and
my goal was to become an ambassador or
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maybe a journalist, and I think
with business development I kind of do both.
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Now I'm the D Ambassador of my
company and I get to write content,
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so that's amazing. But at some
point, you know, I was
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like, okay, look, I
kind of looked back at my career and
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I did different positions. There were
all called business development, but I did
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really different things. So when I
started learning and educating myself more about business
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development, I actually figured out that
this world was so much bigger than what
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we thought, and that was a
mistake I was also making thinking that sales
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was the same as business development.
So until someone at some point was like
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look, I really like what you're
doing, I think it's a great community
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that you're building, but I'm not
interested because I don't do saves, I
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was like wait a minute, what
are you talking about? So that kind
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of trigger me and we started doing
more in depth research and when we figured
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out basically that when we think about
business development will first of all the reason,
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just like one definition that everybody agrees
on. But one thing is for
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sure, business development involves a lot
more than just saves. So now,
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like with the be the school,
our goal is also to clarify these these
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different definitions. And there is one
other anecdote which I think is going to
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I think that was the historical moment
in which sales started being, you know,
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confused with Business Development. Have you
read the book zero to one from
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by Peters till, the same guy, of released a truly but I'm not
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raid yet cool, so I've done. As soon as you do, you're
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going to see that, because at
some point there is one page in which
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he says well, you know,
in sales and so on, we're all
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electors, right, because nobody likes
to sell, nobody likes to be sold.
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And that is why, then sales
people became business developers, you know,
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because business development sounds fancier, right, except that if you do exactly
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the same thing exactly, if you
do exat threatening, it's like it is
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cotting, cutting your services. Person
I remember when I started was actually now
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maybe I should be more like a
customer relationship playing, you know. And
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Yeah, I know it's me exactly. But then what happened is that people
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started really disliking sales people and business
developers because they associated it to the same
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thing. So, and you know, when I read the book I was
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like a finally the answer to to
this, to this problem, you know.
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So to keep it like, you
know, simple, when we think
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about sales development, people that do
sales development are really focus on closing the
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deals right, so they have a
very precise customer profile in mind. They
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contact a lot of them at skate, most likely, especially in Sass or
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tech companies, and then their goal
is to close the opportunity. These opportunity
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and also the concept of opportunities another
thing, but the goal is to close
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deals, while in business development are
going already is to find opportunities before we
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even know who our customaries. And
then, of course, in some companies
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you're going to close this deals as
well, especially if you're a young start
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up. But the goal shouldn't be, and it's not the one to go
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and close all the deals and all
the opportunities that knock at your door,
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but it's really to figure out what's
the best opportunity for the company to grow
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sustainably. So typically a business developer, of course there's also some sales activities
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because at the end of the day, every company needs clients. But as
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a business developer, what you're doing
is actually to find new ways to grow
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the company. So if you only
go after the clients, what you basically
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just keeping on one thing that works
right, and that's that's okay. I
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mean, if it works, obviously
you should do it, but what you
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can also do is to open up
new ways to grow the company, and
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that's what business developers should be doing. But then again, when we think
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about bedrs, as drs and so
on in the tech field, that's really
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there. It's not really business development. Let's be honest. It's more safes,
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right, it's just that the title
is misplaced there. But pretty much
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they're doing sales. They're not doing
pretty much creative or like, you know,
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strategic stuff to find new ways to
grow the company, while what we
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learned with our research and then like
our first you know challenge and goal was
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to define a little bit better what
bed was is really that business development is
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just not about calling the client,
but it's about creating new processes, new
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tasks and so on which are meant
to grow the company on the on the
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long term and to create value on
the long term, which doesn't come only
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from the customers, but it comes
also from the market, from relationships,
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partnerships and so on. So these, I think, is really the main
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difference between sales and business development.
So sales is more like short term.
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You go after one precise ideal customer
profile, you want to close them.
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Business Development does okay, great,
now we have an ideal customer profile.
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What else can we do to grow
the company besides getting this client? So
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that's really the mindset shift. You
know, that makes all the difference.
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It's funny because I probably I've seen
very, very few business development reps that
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you know, I think. I
think, probably been meeting with we sells
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people. I think the enough space
and definitely from our clients in our clines
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are little bit from across the world, but they would be to be soft.
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Well, they all speak about gign
is, Thea as Internet resources,
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focused on focus on the more short
autime activity. So it's quite interesting what
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you're saying because you're almost describing the
business development function as the most strategic function,
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a function that will be responsible for
identifying your revenue trends and all potentially,
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you know, new opportunities for a
company. Well, in our space
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they are tactical guys. In fact, you know business development spread is the
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game. will go and get the
meetings, go and get it is it.
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Will call you, Lucia, and
say, Hey, this is what
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I've got you on it. You
on it. Good meetings, boom,
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video and the S Da. In
the way we've been and I guess you
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know, as I was saying,
it is not a straight definition, but
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the way I kind of port trade
them. If I was to make generality
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the S D I would actually be
a bit more strategy in the video and
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I would be the person that what
I'm saying more strategic is that they would
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not just think about getting that opportunity
to engage, but they would be getting
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that opportunity to engage with the mean
to sell something. So the SDM DSDA
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would probably be probably be a function
that you would expect to see, again,
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from a generative perspective, from from
what I'm hearing from clients daily,
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they would be more the type of
guys that would averaged in value, Bilok
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dollars, certic dollars, like,
kind of things that you could sell from
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being sedentary, so from walking from
from all from you and kind of online
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selling. That's the S D are
from from. I guess the the Videa
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is more the person. That would
be okay, targeting a lot of very
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large corporate accounts. They are complex, there is lots of decision centers.
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So I need a videa that can
go and investigate, sniff everywhere and see
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what your opportunities could be and then
make sure that we don't every single stood
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but then don't teammate goal and again, making a bit of a generality across
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all the people and speaking to in
in no industry is to get that engagement,
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is to get that open up the
door business development for the cells get
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to come and sell the stuff.
That's interesting your proception. Yeah, and
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I mean the thing is that we
didn't really invent anything. We just asked
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the people, you know, and
and when we asked and we run this
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survey, like, we're really impressed
at the amount of different ways that people
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like would use to describe their world. Like one big surprise for us,
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for example, was that business developers
work in product development, which it was
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not something like I kind of did
that when I was in the startup and
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so, like I would always talk
to everyone within the company, but I
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always thought like this, because it's
me, you know, like you know,
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I kind of paved my way like
that. But then, know,
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it turns out that business there's some
type of business developers that actually their only
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job is to talk with the product
development team. So they gather the feedback,
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they go back to the product development
team, they work on features together,
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they launch them. The same for
market entry, like there's some business
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developers that only work on opening up
new markets. So they do market research,
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they do competitor analysis and so on
for this new market and then they
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go and launch this new market.
So it really it is a very complex
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field and there are so many different
ways of doing it, of course.
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So my idea is that most of
the times were actually wasting talent because I
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think, you know, as a
BDR, Short your job can be to
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set meetings for your account executives or
for your SDR or whatever else is closing
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these deals, or you could come
up with new ways to close to find,
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you know, new opportunities. And
to give an example, in two
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thousand and seventeen, which is then
when I started thinking about the bad school,
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I was working for SAS company active
in the recruitment, in the recruitment
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sector. So what we were doing
at the beginnings, of course, we
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all read predictable revenue and so on. It was like, you know,
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you're going to be talking to,
you know, low tiket people, which
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was already not the case because I
will started, I was start getting big
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corporate so obviously very complex deals,
as you were saying before, but basically
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my job became to operate a software. That was my job, you know,
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like I had the super sophisticated software. It's called Apollo Dot. I
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old they're still there. I didn't
have to do anything then click send on
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an email which already was like okay, whatever, but because we were starting
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with the new segment and so on, we didn't really have any information about
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them. So what we would do
was just like blasting these emails around,
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using time plates that we found on
sale soccer and so on, like all
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the major, you know, industry
leaders. But guess what, that didn't
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really work out. So at some
point my frustration was growing. The first
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Saion of my manager was also growing. Is like, you know, feels
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like we're doing so much, but
we were not really, because we were
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doing was just, you know,
like keep repeating the same process that everybody
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else in the industry was doing,
you know. So at some point I
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was I started getting closer and closer
to the growth team. Eventually I became
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a sort of a hybrid role,
so I was still in the safe team,
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but more towards the growth team,
and there is really where I could
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have an impact, because I was
like look, I see that everybody is
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doing webinars. Why don't we do
a Webinar? And already there. I
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had to convince my boss, you
know, to do it, but then
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we did it and we got eight
hundred leads just on the Webinar. Four
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hundred people showed up at the Webinar
and we sold the software like the first
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one, when we were still doing
the Webinar, you know. So I
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was like, okay, look,
I can send as many emails as I
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want, but look, if you
just, you know, let me use
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my creativity a little bit more,
I can come up with some new stuff,
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you know. And this new stuff, of course, they a'm from
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serving what's happening around you, which
is a big part of the job of
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the business developer. Then yeah,
right. I feel sometimes we waste a
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bit of talent because like a look, it's like this, just send emails
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and like, okay, but there
is more, you know, I know
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what you mean. We get we
get the question, as Cofer knows,
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pretty much as soon as you start
a conversation, sometimes when new prospect as
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to what's your technology stack. Okay, before we speak about technology, at
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which what stage are you at?
You know, because, as you mentioned,
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there is so many companies that want
to automate and scale business development sells
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development team that, you know,
they get to the point where they just
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want to to send emails and put
things and look at and the things at
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the beginning. I don't think it's
a number of game. I think at
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the beginning what you've got to do
is to defend the blueprint, and defining
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the blueprint means okay, well,
this is our stuff, right, so
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we could we said at all that
stuff too. So first of all,
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let's let's look at the companies that
are like you and let's not waste time
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with people who in that organization at
home by Oste. Let me need to
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look at the people in this organization, at our susceptible to buy your stuff,
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and when you find them, you've
got to really understand what their role
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is. I need to under some
not how your very proposition will fit into
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them, but what's their actual issues. And when you engage with them,
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you got to speak about of their
issues, because they don't care about your
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new product. There's a thousand coming
out every day. So it's about explaining
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to clients they will look. You
want to bring the automation, but we
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don't have it's like if you bring
the build of before the architect the exactly
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to the fantastic bulder and if you
had a blood really would have. You
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would have, you could you know
you would have built up a structure.
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So incredible. But now insense is
laying bricks, because that's so and I
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completely understone what you're saying now,
from your perspective, what makes a Great
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Business Development Professional? What are the
qualities that those people should have? Actually
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that that that's a good question.
I love that so and I can answer
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you from something we created at the
bat school, which is the socalled the
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now famous in our community club framework. Like litter, lap, clap,
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like clapping. We even have a
small like jingle which is clappy like it's
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out, clapp it like it's up. But that's Internet. But I do
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say to our see. So basically, like we found out when we're doing
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our research. So we really try
to, you know, understand like business
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developers really inside out and we wanted
to know everything. I was in an
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advantage position because I've been doing this
job for a long time, so of
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course I had a lot of insights
on my own, but I'm also the
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kind of person that, you know, needs to see the data. You
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know, it was like, I
don't trust my own experience only. So
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what we did basically we started analyzing
some friends that work in Business Development and
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then we ask question to about like
a thousand business developers, or in the
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first year only, and that just
kept growing and we identified four main personality
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traits of very successful business developers and
these then week what we created the club
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framework based on that and and we
think like we think we've seen it with
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with our connections. They're really the
form most essential things that you need and
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if you had those four things,
then you can build upon that all the
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time. These are creativity. So
good business developers are very creative because,
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of course, like coming up with
new growth opportunity requires, you know,
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having open mind and thinking out of
the box. And Not surprisingly, more
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not surprisingly, most of the managers
we talked to now that we're doing research
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for companies, they all want proactive
business developers, thinking out of the box
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and so on. that. The
other one is learning, a gdt.
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As a business developer you need to
love learning. Like, if you don't
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like learning, if you don't like, you know, exploring, you're not
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curious, you're not going to go
really far, because big part of your
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job is to be attentive, to
work the input exactly, investigate, though,
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totally a bit of a share look
Holms type totally. Then the third
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skill is adaptability. I think like
with Covid we all understood that we need
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to be all a little bit more
adaptable, because the wise we just don't
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really move forward, but especially in
business development, because I mean regardless of
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the company or targeting, which of
course it's very different, and so on,
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but you're going to talk with so
many different stakeholders, internal, like
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your manager, your colleagues, external, which can be clients, partners and
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so on. Everybody is so different, so you need to be able to
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adapt to them and you need to
be able to bring value at all these
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different levels and because of that you
need adaptability. And then the last one
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is, of course, persistence.
These like when I started working in the
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startup word in two thousand and fourteen, like we had it in our playbook.
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The first thing you would see was
persistence is key, like we added
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absolutely everywhere. So I kind of
internalize that. But absolutely, you know,
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whenever you're starting something new, new
initiatives or even just like a new
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potential client that has never heard of
you, you're never going to convince anyone
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in, you know, one email, one call or, you know,
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one shake of hands. Like you
need to gain the trust of the people.
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You need to be credible you need
to build up all these things and
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people know so that we all use
a to nation and so on. So
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that doesn't help be so you need
to be persistent. So even if you
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use your tools, like make sure
that you keep contacting people, like as
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long as it's needed, you know. So this one's creativity, learning,
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a reality, adaptability and persistence.
So if you have the club in you,
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then you can make it yeah,
like that, you know, make
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it club exactly. So now I
like it because it's you know, we've
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been a we've been reworking completely or
recruitment process over covid name, because I
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think you can get a good,
good feel when you meet people in person.
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But it's sort about the foot what
it's about, the food, it's
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of it's a little bit more complex
and and you know what we kind of
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called the learning agility. We call
it, we call it coachability. So
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we will could see what they are
and in fact, you know, we
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we make some order in the recruitment
process and we let them trip and then
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we create the ord again to see
if they're going to take it. We're
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gonna jump it right. So that
and persistence the same. We actually one
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of the one of the question that
we ask in the in the process is
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something along the line of Oh,
Lucia, thank you very much for our
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time today. You know the on
the personal standpoint, I think you are
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great person, but I don't think
you've got polit text to work for us.
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You're a operatic. So it's going
to be a note today and then
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we look at what hour they are
reacting. I know it's terrible, but
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you've got some people at would have
interviewed very, very well. At this
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point, you just look at them
picking their bag and living and why you
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just want to close the dogs and
US Day. I was just testing.
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You have to let them go,
because people the day they will get an
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objection, they will go. These
are people that are showing that they don't
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have that resilience to believe in them, to believe in what they think is
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right or wrong. What you only
someone else as well completely disagree with you,
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and I don't get it. You've
got to explain to me why,
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because I've not come sot off for
someone didn't even that good for the job.
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I've got this, I've got that, and then you're okay, see
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you on Monday. That was the
last absolutely no important because at the end
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of the day, a video or
selves rule. It's really about, you
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know, I think, believing in
your product. And even if you'd have
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a great product, you've got to
find a way to believe in your product.
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You've got to reframe and refrain and
refrain until you find something that you
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can all done to let you really
like Hey, don't tell me, and
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then it's about when you engage with
someone. We take in our training,
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we take the reference to like a
I think it's a boxing match or something
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like that. But if you've got
Momma Daddy going on to the ring,
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00:24:19.220 --> 00:24:22.940
even good they are thinking as you
will get absolutely destroyed by ideas a guy.
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00:24:23.180 --> 00:24:26.970
No, mentally, you gonna go
through that guy. You're gonna Punch
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00:24:26.970 --> 00:24:30.210
him out, you're gonna you know
exactly what to do. You've got a
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00:24:30.250 --> 00:24:33.730
game plan and that's how you in. But in SIDS, I think if
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you have that, some sort of
of confidence. That said that, some
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sort of drive, it helps with
the persistence, but you also help with
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the way you communicate with people.
You know people wants to get something from
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someone who's passionate about it. We
don't speak to you like that about the
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00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:56.390
podcast today you know, you probably
with you probably did right. So you've
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00:24:56.430 --> 00:25:00.470
got to speak about your topic with
passion. If not, stay at home.
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00:25:00.509 --> 00:25:03.390
I don't do it, do something
else. Thought any I think that
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that that's really that's really interesting and
I was taking notes and I was like,
349
00:25:07.339 --> 00:25:08.779
which is said, well, that's
not and I think I do like
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the the adaptability. I think we
need wait to walk more on that.
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I think the tap that we the
way we look at adaptability. We've been
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looking at scoring emotional intelligence. Yeah, because for us it's about you know,
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I was I was mentioning the chameleon
earlier. Yeah, need to find,
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as Dr Vida Selves People in general, that don't think just about themselves.
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They need to have that little those
of selfishness that will be write the
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resilience and everything, but a lot
of empathy so they can also always,
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when they speak to people, put
themselves in the shoes sort of them,
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on the side of them, and
then that sort of self forwarness of what's
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going on. So that's sort of
leadership type of thinking in cells. And
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if we can see all those boxes
where we clap big and we give them
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a job, that's good, Lucia. We are getting to the end of
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the session today, but it was
a really, really good so if anyone
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wants to get around the conversation with
you, or if anyone wants to get
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00:26:15.019 --> 00:26:21.049
in touch, find the details of
your blog platform and everything the bed school.
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00:26:21.329 --> 00:26:25.369
What's the best gets order of your
Lucia? Absolutely so you can visit
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00:26:25.450 --> 00:26:29.369
our website, the bad schoolcom.
There you're going to find all the tools
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00:26:29.410 --> 00:26:33.160
you need to improve your business development
skills and, of course, if you
368
00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:37.440
want some more insights into what we're
doing or about me personally, fear free
369
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:41.000
to connect on Linkedin. I'm always
available, so I feel free to share
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00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:45.079
the link in your summary after yeah, we're do well. Thank you so
371
00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:48.230
much, Lucia. It was an
absolute pleasure to have younger or today.
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00:26:48.509 --> 00:26:53.910
Thank you, Ray for having me. operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue
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00:26:53.950 --> 00:27:00.460
generation for technology companies worldwide. While
the traditional concepts of building and managing inside
374
00:27:00.500 --> 00:27:06.460
sales teams inhouse has existed for many
years, companies are struggling with a lack
375
00:27:06.500 --> 00:27:11.700
of focus, agility and scale required
in today's fast and complex world of enterprise
376
00:27:11.819 --> 00:27:18.890
technology sales. See How operatics can
help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet.
377
00:27:19.730 --> 00:27:25.089
You've been listening to BEDB revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss
378
00:27:25.130 --> 00:27:29.210
an episode, subscribe to the show
in your favorite podcast player. Thank you
379
00:27:29.250 --> 00:27:30.240
so much for listening. Until next
time.
