Episode Transcript
WEBVTT
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You're listening to Be to Be Revenue
Acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping software
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executives stay on the cutting edge of
sales and marketing in their industry. Let's
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get into the show. This podcast
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go to market your organization by operationalizing
your most valuable asset, your customer interactions.
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Transform your organization into a revenue machine
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reach their full potential. Get started
now at Gong dot io. Hi,
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you weren't going to be to be
a Revenue acceleration. My name is and
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I'm here today with Sken Coppleman,
director of sales development at Freddyga Systems.
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How are you doing today, Ken? I am doing great. Thanks for
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having me here today. It's an
inviting carpet around a SDR alignment. Looking
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forward to this conversation. My dear, you're taking the words out of my
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mouth. Do they want to speak
about something that is probably one of the
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most important things in in running and
as the r T is the alignment with
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ease and how do we make the
magic oupen? How do we make that
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glue? So the A is like
yeah, like thes and these two can
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love each other off and great great
successes. But before we get into the
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topic and um and box, surely
because of your rich backgrounds, would you
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mind taking just a couple of minutes
to introduce yourself so you know your background,
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but also introduced the company your prison
critical Sure? Sure, most definitely
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so. My name is Ken Coppleman. I am the director of Sales Development
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for Redica Systems. I've been in
in inside sales and a sales leader for
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twenty five years. I've worked with
four different organizations over these twenty five years,
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building out inside sales teams, meeting
and sales development organizations, building out
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processes, hiring, coaching, mentoring. I've hired over five d SDRs and
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eight es in twenty five years,
and in that alignment is hugely important and
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to drive success from the top of
the funnel and pipeline to hit revenue goals
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for the companies. But I'm with
Redical Systems down then, and Radica is
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we are the largest successiful database for
FDA data inspections and enforcements that help life
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sciences companies understand the latest FDA trends. I mean this allows for like quality
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and its regulatory professionals in the industry
be prepared for upcoming what we call is
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pre approval inspections, so we help
them manage or supply chain their quality and
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regulatory that comes out from guidance from
FDA Health Canada, in Europe and the
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whole world. Were the largest successful
database. Yeah, very very successful product
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that uh we we we we've been
walking to get off and again it is
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at a very very well pleased product
in the market. So let's dive in
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the topic. I guess my first
question, which may be of use for
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you and A, but maybe not
for all our listeners, why is it
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important for SDA a's to have a
strong relationship from your destitute And that's a
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great question, you know, and
and the the a s d R SDR
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A lineman is hugely important because when
we take a look at the SDRs in
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today's world, these sire typically college
graduates that are coming right out of college
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that want to be in sales.
And you've got the account executives that have
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anywhere between three to five years of
sales experience. They understand the target market,
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the total addressable market, the UM. Working specifically with persona based selling,
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pipeline management, understanding who to target, and just reflecting back on my
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time here at Redica. It is
a small subset we have about accounts that
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are in our tament this time in
the life sciences pharmaceutical industry. What I
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did is when I came into you
know, Redica, the first thing I
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did was I hired the team and
then aligned them with their account executives and
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so they could start working within the
industry. I think the benefit of the
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a E to the SDR is the
coaching, the mentoring and training of industry
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products, process and people messaging targeted
and having that that experience working with them
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being on discovery calls and demos,
you know, helps ramp the SDR quicker,
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but also has direction and close alignment
from account planning, account prioritization and
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how to upsell, cross sell and
messaging when they're working with our specific personas
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within a target market like pharmaceutical.
Yeah, it's um It's a bit of
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an obvious one for for for me
as well, because I've been in the
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market for so long. We know
that when the relationship is strong and there
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is some love between the s D
and a HIS reasers can really go through
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the roof uh. And sometimes we've
got as that do not I don't know
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if it's appreciation or um. Sometimes
they don't have the time and you may
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list you might may have unless you
as a as A as an internal resource
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because you could probably pull a few
few levels to get to get people interested.
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But have you been in situation where
account managers or a's are not showing
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a great interest in engaging with the
SDR and developing them. Yeah, I
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have over the years. I mean, I've seen account executives that they feel
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like they are a solo writer,
right, they feel like their processes are
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are perfect. They're they're generating their
own pipeline. You know, they are
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running the show, right, They're
closing their own business. And typically what
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I what I've seen is you know
that that's not a good recipe for success
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for the business, right And the
benefit of this and of having the SDR
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a alignment is it shortens the ramp
time for the SDR, you know,
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to account executive, if we didn't
have that SDR to a alignment, I
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think it would take them twenty four
months to actually move. Like what we're
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seeing in the industry right now is
anywhere between twelve to eighteen months from SDR
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to account executive. But I have
seen as before that, and that's just
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a conversation from a leadership perspective to
explain to them the why behind it.
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Who wouldn't want to have more pipeline, more customers to work with, right
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to end their pipeline to close more
revenue? Yeah? Yeah, the loans
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soldier is UH could be successful,
but usually it's not scalable exactly a large
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organization. So let's go back to
some some maybe some practical examples. Well,
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do you have any steps that you
could share a tump of things that
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you've done to improve the alignment between
a's and SDL, either in an environment
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where booths wanted to actually cooperate well
together, but also in environment or maybe
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it was the honestly being communicative of
the as that being communicated. If you
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have any steps that you're put in
place in the past of best protasis.
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Yeah, when I was working at
Autodesk, you know, in my previous
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adventures, you know they're the alignment
wasn't fruitful, um, and there wasn't
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you know that alignment that was there. So what I did is I created
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a process from a one from a
handoff perspective of a discovery call, but
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too you know, is setting up
those one on ones on a weekly basis
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and what would those conversations be like? Right, So that would be fruitful
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because the account executives from an SDR
is there are customers, right, so
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we want to drive the alignment from
there, so we structured meetings, right,
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so account prioritization, looking into the
accounts, the upsell process potential,
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maybe it's an a that you know
can't penetrate a specific persona within the account
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and working with that messaging. So
I think from a from a structured perspective
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in aligning, you know, those
category account planning, account prioritization, persona
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based and structured meetings with it help
with that rap time and that alignment and
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that relationship. Yeah, definitely reduced
the the amount of errors as well as
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well down the lights. So preparation
instead of freestyling and in some of the
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in some of the video or the
SDR participating into the meetings, you know,
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and that we've got clients, we've
got mixed views on that topic or
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as that may not want as the
ABDA to participate to call some mos at
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once to invite the DADA to all
that calls, which then kind of distruct
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them from doing that. So you
know, we've seen it all, but
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what are your views on that?
Have you seen that successful? I've just
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seen that less successful. Is that
a way to make it good? Because
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I think there is some value in
it? But how to expract the best
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out of that that those wor stories
from the care that the AS wouldout that
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you can reuse and as the ABD. Yeah, this is a great topic
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here and the way that I look
at it is time is money. Money's
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time, right, And I do
believe like in like the first ninety days
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of you know, the SDR that
has scheduled a disco meeting and discovery call
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now that leads to a demo in
the software industry, it's good for the
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development of the SDR within the first
ninety days to to do that warm handoff
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and listen to how the structure of
that discovery call goes. What qualifications are
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we looking for because here at Redica
we are throwing spears, We are not
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spraying. We are actually researching these
contacts because we it's it's personified, it's
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it's it's direct messaging, it's linked
in, it's it's looking into Lucia um,
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it's direct contacts and messaging. And
we believe here at Redica that the
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higher that we stayed within a persona, the fashion the sales cycle is and
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the conversion rates to pipeline generated with
in the first ninety days, you know,
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it is good for the SDR to
do that warm handoff and listen to
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how the conversation is structured by the
account executive, what questions that they're asking,
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the responses to it, and then
debriefing after that actual discovery called what
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was good, what was bad,
what was indifferent? You know, lessons
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learned from that call. It just
helps the SDR ramp quicker. But after
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ninety days, it's you know,
handing that that call off, that warm
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persona off to that actual account executive
and then get back to their day to
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day stuff to drive more discovery calls. Yeah, yeah, I think he's
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what we've seen was do that that
strategy or the tactic of getting to attend
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the court. We've seen two things
we've seen on the program. Well,
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we have a good engagement with the
clients, and we've got to clear willingness
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from the a's too, you know, support we see a massive upticking quality
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and quale one of the equalities equality
of the work in the sense that more
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meeting take place, but also the
meetings are set up probably in the better
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way, and the next conversation is
likely to be also more qualitative because you
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could use the world story from the
conversation you just listen to in the next
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conversation and kind of create your own
little campaign within the program. So we
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see it as the best practice.
But I agree with you, I think
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we it's about not going over the
top. I think once you've done two
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three for discovery call with one persona
in in one specific markets in one industry
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and there is nothing else to learn
on the topic, you can probably you
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know, focus on doing your video
as your job. But then if you
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open a new meeting in a new
industry, it's kind of interesting to go
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and listen to what the what the
conversation will go. But we we started
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to really developed that practice of having
our reps participating to meeting to reduce a
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drop of right And I think it's
a kind of psychology things where because the
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rep are due to turn up to
the meeting are like the d SDR BID
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are are coming to the meeting,
and they are more likely to not forget
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the steps of reconfirming or making less
mistake because they have to turn up and
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they will be there, and if
if it's an aqua call, it's going
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to be a card for them as
well. And nobody wants to put themselves
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in an aquack. In anoquotes conversation, So we're really started with a kind
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of psychological mindset and and he he
worked, well, I mean we still
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have you know, it's impossible to
completely eradicate concelations and and reschedulings and stuff
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like that. But really what we've
seen the uptick is on what you mentioned,
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which is kind of the acceleration of
the knowledge, you know, being
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able to have a better conversation with
another prospect straight away after that certain minutes
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forty five minutes when our call.
So I think, I think you've got
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a good point here and a good
a good strategy in terms of, you
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know, the first ninety days being
very involved, but then probably slowing it
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down because you already know and there
is no point you're wasting your titan.
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That's another point, you know,
there is sometimes without making generalities but there
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is there is the good old cold
reluctance, okay, particularly when you are
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engaging with prospect from cold. So
it's important to make sure that we we
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don't give too many opportunities for as
their pity as to get into really stick
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the prospect. I want to take
it back to another topic now, which
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is more the the alignment from a
metrics perspective, Okay, because you know,
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what you've been discussing at the moment
is all good. And I think
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it's often the case that the A
and the SDR. You know, if
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you recruit the right people, just
just two should want to work together,
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shouldn't They should be A B.
The A will get more pimeplane the SDR
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will get more commission when these meetings
take place and they turned into our portunities.
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But we know that sometimes things don't
go according to plan. The A
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s may not declaring the escua or
the opportunity as quickly as another A.
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The SDR may not be as successful
as another one because of a different regional,
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a different vertical, or something personal. So for dis alignment of metrics,
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how do you how do you go
about it? Can you know do
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you have any specific tactics that you've
been used using in the past to align
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the metrics between both, but not
just to set it up, but also
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in the longer term. So this
this is a great point here and I
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would love to expand on this.
And you know, because it's all about
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predictable revenue. Um, there's a
book that I've read in the past by
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Aaron Ross, you know who was
you know, the salesforce dot com.
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You know, took them to their
first hundred million dollars by an app perspective,
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and you know, it's it's really
building out that repeatable and measurable process
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for upgraded pipeline. That's what ramp
up means, right. So, and
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what what that means is that you
know what the overall arching goals for revenue
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of the business. Right And so
here at Retica, we look at six
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of the pipeline generated will be coming
from the SDR team. And so what
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I've done is I've worked it backwards. I started looking at, Okay,
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what's the average you know, close
one deal size, you know, what's
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the average pipeline, what is the
wind rate? You know, what's the
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average sales cycle? And so what
I've done is we've we took measurements in
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place and said, okay, so
we've got ten account executives and so what
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is that sdr to a ratio?
And so what we've come up with is
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a one to two ratio in six
of their pipeline is going to be generated,
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you know, from us. And
so that that whole alignment of breaking
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it down to a KPI program that's
daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly,
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and annually of how much pipeline do
we need to generate? And so with
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US we use tools like sales off
and salesforce and so we're measuring not only
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calls, but we're measuring connects.
And those connects that we make with these
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researched contacts, you know what happened
with that? You know, did they
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convert? You know, what were
the objections part of it? And so
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we we get really granular, you
know, within our KPI program to drive
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the pipeline that we need and to
see what that revenue looks like over time.
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What are the metrics that you would
look at? Would you look at
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meeting set, would you look at
sales quantified lead? Would you like at
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both? Because there is always a
debate who is responsible for creating the opportunity
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is there responsible for creating the opportunities
it the as I guess. On top
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of that, you've got to have
the layer of courtals because you probably want
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all your a's too declare an opportunity
at this and tighten and i's something that's
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these corrects you don't have in your
room for interpretation. So how did you
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how do you do that? Yeah? So the way that we're measured here
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with the SDRs, they're measured on
discovery calls executed, okay, and opportunities
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created. So the variable compensation that
we see is measured on that. Because
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what we want to do is we
want to travel, we want to hand
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deliver these um these meetings as a
warm handoff, so to actually eat with
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the right persona right industry, right
target, right company, and and execute
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that meeting and handoff. And then
it's like what the where the r O
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I for an SDR organization and my
career is pipeline generated? Right? What
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is the return on investment? Right? And so the collaboration you know,
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with the account executive and the SDR
once they run that demo, which is
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the first step in our opportunity pipe
pipeline, say they debrief of how that
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actual demo went, because we know
if they go into a demo phase,
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there's definitely interest of moving forward.
There's a problem that needs to be solved,
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because if there's no problem, there's
no sale, right, And and
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that's our job is to hand deliver
that and then working with the a to
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create that opportunity and what that does
for the str is Now it's more on
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the sales sides and learning how to
create an opportunity, right and what to
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look for. Yeah, and that's
one of our challenge to be fair,
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Kenny's, at what stage do an
opportunity needs to be developed? Obviously?
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You know the it's like the energy
of funting to have like a six pack
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for the summer, right, UM's
it's you need to focus on the process
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versus the outcome. Um, starting
to eat one kara today and going to
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a gym seven hours a day a
week before going on only day is probably
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the dissolution to get to stick back, the solution to get a six paces
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to have that consistent activity going on
for a long part of family. And
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trust me, a lot of the
six Pacts, a lot of the disciplineople
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that I may either like the as
too much. The part than trying to
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make is that often with with A, particularly in a I based and and
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very UM very well invested in environments, you could get pressure for results,
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particularly in public companies UM and and
that pressure tend to go from c R
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to VP sales VP seals to A
is as to SDR and then everybody is
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trying to the things that we look
at meeting, but the meeting don't get
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converted, and and then you've got
the A is not really wanting to declare
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pipeline because if the de clare pipeline
they would have to close it. So
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they want to go a little bit
further in the discovery stage to make sure
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that they are not losing the opportunities. So that's one of the issue that
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we we probably face the most from
a psychological perspective amongst our client, which
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is how do we set up a
process well, all das are consistent in
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the way the declared piping. Yeah, I mean it's uh, it's a
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valid point that that conversation has been
happening for years right in my experience and
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and the way that we have it
set up here at Reddicka I think works
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beautifully and because in a's not gonna
put a discovery call into their pipeline as
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demo um without actually having hands on
with that. I would not want in
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my pipeline if I haven't had hands
onto it. And that's why it works
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extremely well here is that that they're
having uh collaboration. Collaboration is key and
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what's that that demo is is ram
and we know it's going into a pipeline.
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That collaboration of what went well,
what were their pain points, what
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were their challenges, what's the problem. And there's another book that's out there
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called Gaps Selling by Keenan out of
Denver by selling in the Gap right,
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And I truly believe this like what
I'm seeing so far at Redica. Yeah,
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when I came in, I thought, well, it's gonna be ninety
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days to six months for a full
ramp. And what we found out with
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this a E SDR collaboration is that
we're seeing the SDRs that we've just hired
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that are going to be ramped in
sixty days. And what that does for
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a business, it generates more pipeline, it's generating more revenue, right,
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And we truly believe that a SDR
alignment is driving that behavior that we're looking
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for. Yeah, I agree with
you. Let's question for me really,
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and I want to come back to
a point you you mentioned earlier on.
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You mentioned, hopefully paraphrasing you properly
here, you mentioned that as DR probably
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would want within eighteen months to transform
into a ease. So so we know
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that convey a bent of talents is
important, but we also it's a big
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it's a big change. It's like
a catapillar becoming a butterfly, you know,
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um, and and and it's not
fine everyone, So i'd like your
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views on that. And and because
we're speaking about str and A alignment,
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I'd like to all know something from
your perspective, what's the necessary involvement from
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the A to support that? Because
the reason what I wassking you the question
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is we have a ton of a's
that do not want to lose the SDR,
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you know, lose their results,
they lose their pipeline. They don't
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eighteen months and twelve months or six
months, and so it's a wide open
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question game. So yeah, yeah, it's it. It's all that it's
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been out there for a long time
around that. I mean, because the
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a's they built such strong relationships with
their STRs, right, and in a
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sense, they've been their coach,
they've been their mentor, they've been a
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friend, right, And so the
thing is of losing that specific person.
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But it really goes back to,
you know, the driving the behavior that
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we're looking for, right, because
the way that I look at is like
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if I'm gonna hire as the questions, it all starts with the interviewing process,
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right. I know that they want
to be in sales within two to
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five years, right, And in
knowing that, you know, we believe
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that SDRs that home their skills with
outbound prospecting are probably gonna be the best
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account executives that you have because they're
out there hunting their own new business,
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right, And the a ease that
are there that have that relationship need to
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understand that these are going to be
future account executives, right, and that
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they continue to train and coach like
the a's that we have here. They
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know that the STRs that we have
on staff here are gonna be their peers
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down the road, right. And
it makes you feel good, right.
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It's that we talk about servant leadership
here at Reetica and giving back that was
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freely given to you is hugely important. That's the way that I leave my
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organization is through servant leadership. And
but that whole bonding of an organization,
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that collaboration is a very impactful.
You know, three three two companies ago.
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I was at a company called Agility
Recovery, and we took it from
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a forty million dollar business to a
two million dollar business in five years.
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And we did it because the sdr
A alignment, the growth and development,
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the relationships that we built. Everybody
was selfless. They were working with each
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other. They wanted everybody to get
better and and knowing that we're gonna do
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the same thing here at Retica,
we are going to become that that hundred
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million dollar business we believe in the
next five to seven years, and we're
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gonna do it by this SDR A
alignment, driving meaningful pipeline with right key
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players. It's going to close and
everybody is selfless here at Retica, where
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we want to be one team,
one dream in one Rediica. Hey,
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I honestly, it's it's my last
question. But I like the concept of
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seven leaderships. So do you may
just just because all well off, what's
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seven leadershipes? But did you mentioning
your the reason why seven leadership is the
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right set up for you guys.
Yeah, the servant leadership. And and
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I've done this, I've read books
on servant leadership. The thing is,
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it's like to get back that was
freely given to you, right to help
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somebody in within the organization, to
be able to see the lights come on,
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to see them execute at a high
level, to see them grow within
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the organization. Because with me,
you know, as a servant leaders,
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as a director of sales development,
I'm in the trenches with my SDRs.
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I'm on call coaching. I'm meeting
with them one on ones, on a
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on a on a daily basis,
just quick check ins. You know what
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needs to happen, What are some
of the hurdles that are there. I've
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seen leaders before that manage from the
top down, that demand to do something,
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but they're not getting into action with
their people. Right. Those are
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the organizations I believe that failed.
The ones that I've been in that have
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been successful is because we believe of
taking if you take a look at a
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triangle right, we believe of putting
you look at a trying on the corporate
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right. You've got your president,
You've got your CEOs, and then who's
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at the bottom. It's the employees, right. We believe in flipping that
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that triangle upside down. Everybody is
serving everybody right to help each other succeed.
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Our CEO at Retica, Michael,
he is a servant leader because he's
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on calls with his his a ese
right, he's listening to our customers.
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He's on calls with customers. Typically
you don't really see that in a in
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a normal organization, but we believe
in that servant leadership and that's why we're
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gonna thrive and we are on that
rocket ship to that hundred million dollar number
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by doing these practices of servant leadership
to each other within the organization. Love
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it can love it. Love it. Love the passion with which you you
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speak about it. Servant leadership as
well, you know you already believe it
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in you know, to be fair, it's it's such an important concept,
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you know, it's such an important
concept. I've been hearing a lot about
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it, particularly during and past COVID. It was it was not something that
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was too much, you know,
in the conversation, but it's so important.
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It's so important to have people in
your team, particularly in sales and
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marketing, because we know there is
lots of turnover and people coming with a
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better offer and this and that,
but but showing carryer progression, helping people
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to get better gross mindset. You
know, it's it's such such such an
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important topic. So thank you so
much for your for your quicker round up
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on on the servant leadership at Redica. I want to thank you for your
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time. We get into the end
of the recording here, but I want
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to thank you for your time and
for your insight and that was super super
357
00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:45.519
useful. You gave me a few
ideas and food for sorts and things that
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I will try to implement your au
operatics. But if anyone wants to get
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in touch with with yourself and carry
on the conversation or get in touch with
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00:27:55.119 --> 00:28:00.480
Ridica to see how Ridica could support
them or the organisation to strive. What's
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00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:03.559
the best way to get to k
Yeah, the best way to get ahold
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00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:07.480
of me is you can reach me
at ken and dot Coppelman KO, P
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00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:11.480
P E. L M A N
at Redica dot com. UM. You
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00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:15.880
could actually reach us at Redica dot
com on our website. UM, feel
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00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:19.880
free to reach out to me,
be more happy to talk more about the
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00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:25.519
a s DR alignment or if you
just want to talk about individual development plans.
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00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:29.039
You know, how do you get
into account executive? What does it
368
00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:33.000
look like? And uh, a
full sales process. So that's how you
369
00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:34.240
can get ahold of me. And
if you need anything, just let me
370
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now that's wonderful way. Thank you
so much for all time today on the
371
00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:41.480
on the show game all right,
thanks so much for your time, appreciate
372
00:28:41.559 --> 00:28:47.400
it. You've been listening to be
two be Revenue Acceleration. To ensure that
373
00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:51.279
you never miss an episode, subscribe
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374
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Thank you so much for listening.
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375
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