Episode Transcript
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You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping software executives
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stay on the cutting edge of sales
and marketing in their industry. lets get
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into the show. Hi, welcome
to be to be a revenue acceleration.
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My name is of any in with
you and I'm here today with Jeremy Longley,
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bought for your chief marketing off yourself
or the marketing center. How are
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you, Jeremy? I'm excellent.
Thank you. Good. So today we
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will be talking about the six lessons
you've learned in Bob Marketing, which is
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an ultiqual that you published recently.
But before we go into details, can
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you please tell us a little bit
more about yourself, as well as the
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marketing center and your rule within the
organization? Sure so. My background.
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I've spent the last twenty years in
Sass technology, mainly in commercial we leadership
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roles, and those are ranged from
managing director roles chief commercial officer to CMO
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roles. So I don't come to
marketing through a kind of classic marketing background,
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although that's where I now focus my
portfolio career, certainly where I spent
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the majority of the last ten years. What I do now is I work
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with a number of small, midsize, usually tech businesses to help them accelerate
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their growth really through two things,
which is sort of strategy development and then
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the Classic Marketing Mas so my experiences
mainly in scale ups. Okay, so
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that's a time working to we help
build a business from start up to rene
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of a hundred million in Europe,
mostly private equity focused. And what all
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that means is that I see marketing
from both sides. I've seen marketing from
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both sides as a customer running a
hundry sales organization and also as a supplier
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of marketing services within an organization and
having worked so closely with private equity for
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a long time, or more so, used to the demands of a guess,
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of a data hungry audience. Yes, yes, and I think you've
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been a I guess your article is
transpiring that that experience and end the failure
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you've you owned the storms. What
marketings mean from a see your perspectives here
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for perspective Ed of Selves, Perspective
which is which make it interesting and a
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good Riad. And so through Your
Marketing Journey I'm sure you've had mini lessons,
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mini successes, mini mistings that you've
made. And obviously the article that
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you you wrought was about the six
lessons that you've learned in BTP marketing,
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as I'm sure that had some of
our audience. So they have not read
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that at de call. Would you
mind sharing wizards? What other six lessons
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that you've learned in Bat of the
marketing? Sure, and I won't go
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through them in any detail, but
I'll give you the kind of headlines of
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each of them. And I think
for me I've always leaded a success is
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not a terribly good teacher, right, so you don't tend to take the
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time to reflect on your success,
where certainly I know I will take time
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to reflect some mistakes, and absolutely
so. That's that's why I kind of
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think I have a wealth of them
and I also think it's important marketing particular
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is a process of making mistakes and
learning from when analyst, it's perspective.
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So the six lessons are mistake number
one I've articulated as being asking your non
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barketing marketing boss, typically your chief
exect, to define your role. And
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it's made. been there. Yeah, we do it. Were so grateful
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for the job sometimes that when somebody
says, this is what I expected you.
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We we just ask how high,
and that's I think that's where the
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problem starts. The state number two
is taking every penny of budget you can
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get. So typically, as a
marketing director, you feel happier when you've
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got a huge budget that when you
have a medium or small budget. I'm
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not sure that's always the right approach. The state number three is not bringing
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your chief financial officer on board or
your finance director, whoever you kind of
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your financial peer is, and somehow
seeing them as being the enemy. The
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state number four, which I think
we're going to talk about, which is
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nobody cares about your q hours.
But state number five is the kind of
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handing off to sales mentality that you
see a lot in markets who orient themselves
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primarily around them. Our Gem numbers
six is marketing for the organization you think
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you should have, and that's really
one that's consistent for me, which is
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you know you have a great marketing
ideas, you're doing some amazing things,
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you're so pleased with yourself about the
quality of what you do that actually you
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forget that your channel to market is
often through an organization who might not be
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your proaching at the same level you
do, and so your marketing efforts will
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fall flat, and quite often we
like to blame our ears and our colleagues
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for that, but the reality is
that's always your fault. So those are
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the six mistakes. Okay it.
That's quite interesting the way you look at
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it again, you know, coming
back to the point of formulated, the
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earlier you speak about the CEO,
the expectation, the CFO, which are
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probably the people at tend to an
interesting relationship with marketing because we tend to
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see marketing professional as or did then, to see professional in marketing as a
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cust and making to spend money.
So, but if we were to look
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at the six lessons that you've learned, on the six Miss Things that you've
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made and that you you you probably
believe people are easily making at the moment
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or we're making the future, which
one, for you, is the most
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common one? I think it's probably
the stake number one, which is why
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I put it there, which is
letting your non marketing buster to find your
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role. I'm not sure it's the
worst one, but I think that we
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I don't think. I believe quite
strongly that this perhaps is the difference re
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marketing leadership and marketing management. Marketing
leaders role is extremely wide, but most
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marketing leaders are working for the chief
EXECTU are really driven only by one thing,
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which is right. So you find
yourself being pushed into defining a role
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just in terms of the stuff that
can be strictly measured, which is the
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more generation. I think once you
find yourself in that that's your job and
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we can argue that ultimately that is
the job of boxing marketing direction, and
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ultimately is an important word. But
once you find yourself in that bucket of
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being solely focused on the more generation, then it's very, very hard to
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get out of that. So the
number one advice I give when I'm mentoring
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people who moving into market directors well
is spend time at the beginning of your
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role, spend time when you meet
in you to achieve executive telling them what
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you would talk what you believe.
Your job is be fullish, as you
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as you know, as you absolutely
yeah, I do like it. I
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do like it because it's it's almost
like challenging the management and some of the
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the advice that you you put in
the article about looking at Apis, are
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looking at objectives, in a different
way, speaking about system or retention,
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speaking about increasing average dual value,
speaking about increasing convulsion rate, for people
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probably look at through like you are
some sort of an alien, because that
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I won't Wagh, is that marketing
gating and that they can request to increase
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convulsion rate from selves, and I
think I think that's a good way to
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go about it, because when you
challenge, usually that's when people start to
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listen to you and that's why you
can stop to drive you on destined.
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So it's definitely insightful. So coming
back to lessen number four, and you
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are right, this is the one
that caught my attention when you mentioned that
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no one cares about you. I'm
Q and that's a bit of a ball
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statement, but it would be great
if you can just deliberate a little bit
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more on that point for audience.
Yeah, I think we intuitively know this
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as market as we know that nobody
cares, but I think there's a couple
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of challenges that make us overly focused
on it. So, first of all,
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most senior marketers know that for most
of their customers, whether that be
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an investor to if exact marketing is
something of a dark art, and for
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that reason. It's the same reason
that most chief exective you look at satisfaction
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surveys of marketing leaders. HMM,
marketing leaders often are at the bottom of
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chief exact satisfaction ratings. Yeah,
so chief exects have a fairly dim view
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of their marketing organization and their leader. And we know that there are some
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differences. There are some really awesome
tooth execs and some fantastic marketers who are
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locked together, but for most marketing
is a sort of necessary evil. Now,
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if you add to that background the
fact that new marketing tools and channels
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have opened up the possibility of really
in depth, detailed analytics and a great,
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far greater level of transparency around marketing, does and for me, those
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two things to go come together to
form what what you could call a desperate
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geek and what I mean by that
is that we are so desperate to prove
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our value and there are so many
different analytics that we think, we hope
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help us to prove that value,
that we basically throw it all on the
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boardroom table in an attempt to prove
our a amazing we are right now.
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This is our contribution. So what
I've seen time and time again is marketing
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leaders who overwhelm. You look at
a typical board report with data on the
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entire pipeline. You know they've got
website stats, landing page performance, event
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attendance stats, tqls, aqls,
eskils and so on. Yeah, because
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we just want it. It's like
a sort of like a little dogs asking
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for attention and approval and in my
experience the mql sort of is the ultimate
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representation of that few time efforts.
Now, I'm not saying that marketing qualified
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leads aren't important. They are incredibly
important. They really represent a critical stage
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of pipeline, of pipeline development.
We know that they're that. Look that
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point of all, you delivering the
qualified potential opportunities. What, however,
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you defind the MQ are. But
until you're you know, my general view
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is until you are able to reliably
demonstrate the correlation between your mql and booked
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revenue so that the MP number,
MP our number, means something to an
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invest or, a chief Exag or, they can take an mql number and
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work out what it's likely to mean, I think you should just shut up
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about it. And I would say
the same about a lot of marketing metrics.
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So the function of an m ql
is a pre as as a predictive
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indicator of future sales success. That's
what it does. And if you aren't
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able to demonstrate a correlation or a
causation, ideally, between an MP well
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and how sales, at least how
part of how sales is going to do
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within the next three, six,
nine months, depending on how long your
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sale cycle is, then don't more
bother. Absolutely so I guess the point
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that you are making here that you
can. You can these guys them quer
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or. You don't need to speak
about the M Cud which we need to
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speak about what happened after the end
training, the lay fake, all of
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the your bomunity. So or where. We're cooking about you. We're looking
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about meetings, we're cooking about pay
plane that were looking about for revenew.
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I'll do you get the attention because
as marketing person, I think it's extremely
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difficult to speak about review because technically
the riven you should be led. They
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said there couldn't be an argument that
to contribution to buy plane, a cut
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in person vision of the by plane
should come from marketing in or of that.
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But before I devel up on that
point, I'd like to get your
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floods and come off what you think
for the needs or if you had to
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give a device to marketing director,
I'm listening to us. When you think
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for ISM, they do must underblock
table from your experiencing. Come off,
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Mitch weeks to because you still have
to prove that try did ever bring something
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from the business right you do.
So I'm going to swerve the question a
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little bit by saying that I think
that the answer to that question sits around
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the boardroom table. So when you
take on a new look, when you
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take on a new role, my
advice is you talk to your chief Exec
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and the board members, as if
that's relevant, about what they think matters,
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as two things I would suggest you
do. So first we'll talk to
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them about what matters. And for
a lot of chief exacts it easy meetings.
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Yeah, because no one likes to
see a sales team that is a
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busy so maybe it's opportunities, maybe
it's pipeline growth, maybe it's meetings,
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but but talk to your chief Exair
can find out what they think is the
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number that they feel most closely correlates
future sales success and what marketing does and
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and focus on that yeah. The
second thing is I think one of the
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things that you could do, if
you are going to stay focused on mqols,
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is to edge educate your fellow board
members, are excepting members, on
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what you think and expected correlation between
an Mpkey well and closed one revenue is,
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yeah, okay, so if we
are doing well all this, not
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much empy well will deliver this much
close one revenue based on this benchmark formula.
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So there's a value. There's a
value. Therefore, benchmark data and
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okay, that's what data. But
I think ultimately the answer that question sits
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with the chief executive. You know, what number do you think most close
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closely correlates? How do I take
my pipeline analytics and and get as close
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as I can to the number that
matters? You also say something that I
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probably would challenge, which is,
you know, the idea that ultimately marketing,
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because it goes back to sort of
my handoff point, that the idea
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that marketing deliver m quels and whether
sales succeed or not is sort of up
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to sales. That's as an assumption
that I would challenge and because at the
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end of the day, you can't
sit in front of a chief exact and
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say well, I did my bit, I did my empty wells, but
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they didn't close. Yeah, you
are. You are just giving a Golden
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Bridge to my next question. So
thank you very much for that, Jeremy.
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One of the deals are listen that
that I did like androidre reading about
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in a in the article, is
about marketing kind of thinking, or potentially
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thinking, of the job is done
when the end of lead soul MP and
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to our serves team. Okay,
so to your point and to the challenge
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way, it's so important that marketing
also cares about custom like experience and what
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happened after in the sales process.
I think all these things kind of fit
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together right. So if you're working
in an organization that sees the role of
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marketing in a very narrow sense,
then you already have a problem, and
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I think for me, the handoff
is probably the symptom of tenzero other things
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that are problematic. Firstly, that
the handoff question comes down to what's the
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purpose of marketing? Yeah, okay. For me the purpose of marketing is
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to build the product the the customer
wants to buy. And if we accept
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that the product is the combination of
the good or the service itself and the
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experience of buying it. The Role
of marketing is to ensure that the business
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in its entirety delivers what customers want
in a way that they want to buy
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it. Now that means that the
role of marketing is kind of systemic,
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right. So you need to bring
all of your knowledge about the customer,
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the market, your product and your
competitors and the customer experience to produce something
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that business wants. So we're had
it. Let's bring that back to the
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handoff, so that the handoff reinforces
the idea that you only do a very
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narrow thing, which is you generate
a qualified opportunities that sells then't go and
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close. But that's not the purpose
of marketing leadership. The park of the
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personal marketing leadership is to understand the
entire customer experience, the entire buying process
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all the way through. So the
first reason why I'd say it's a bad
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idea to hand off is because you're
missing a golden opportunity to understand how your
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business does the customer experience. The
other reason I think that it's important that
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you don't think about handoffs is because
quite often what I've seen this marketing leaders
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who think that their job is to
fill the funnel at the top of the
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funnel. Yeah, and that's often
that's really hard. You know, the
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hardest leave it to drive growth is
with new opportunities. One really good way
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of driving growth is through improving the
conversion of opportunities that already in the file.
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Now, if you if you are
focused entirely just on this idea of
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empty rousing and hand us, you're
missing a massive opportunity for growth, which
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is about how are you optimizing the
transit of opportunities through the entire Sun of
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what's the conversion rate, power,
sales equipped etc. So for me the
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handoff is a divisive way of thinking
about it and it what that leads to
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is that kind of conversation every marketing
leader and every sales leader has ever had,
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which is either sales people are rubbish
and there not closing my leads,
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or marketing is delivered unqualified opportunities that
are not closable. So that that makes
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perfect sense. Can you share with
the success stories of companies a marketing team
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that that have done just that?
And I'll do you go about it as
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well, because once it goes to
the self said, of the of the
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business to keep an eye on things. I would do you. What do
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the techniques are? which is good
recurrent, I'll do you work with a
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sells team to just keep an eye
on things and old things are progressing.
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So I think the first thing is
that you need the sales to read to
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know that you're on their side.
Yeah. Yeah, and you need to
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know, you need the sales directed
to know that you're never going to throw
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them under the bus and that you
part of your role is to ensure that
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he or she is as wealthy and
successful as possible. Yeah, so my
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job is to make you successful.
Yeah, the way that I do that
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is by understanding the entire sales cycle
and looking for opportunities. That's called the
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marginal games, throughout the entire sales
cycle to optimize the conversion of the opportunity.
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I do that by really focusing on
the customer. Okay, so I
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think that's the first place you start. The second place you then you start
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his measurement. Yeah, so you
have your analytics and the third place you
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actually do is to shock the experience
yourself. Yeah, that's why you follow
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your own leads through you you shot
the experience yourself and you understand what it's
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like and you continue looking for all
those small gains through the funnel. And
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I think where I seek, where
have I seen that work really well?
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So I can't think of a particular
because I don't understand this story. What's
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behind the scenes in every organization shown
and I appreciate that. I appreciate but
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what I do see is that the
brands that do really well are in B
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to be in particular, are those
that understand that their job isn't just to
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sell a product, it's two mating
customers great at what they do. Yeah,
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so all the way through the sale
cycle you don't two things. You're
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making the process fast and Frich and
less and you're making the process as high
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value for your prospects of prospects as
possible. So get on all with sales,
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use analytics, understand the conversion from
sales stage to sale stage, shop
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the customer experience yourself and and look
for Tenzero, tiny marginal gains to optimize
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that customer, that customer journey.
Okay, well, thanks for a Jeremy.
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I really appreciate to your playmen and
Insad under on the question that they
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had for you to then and going
to the details of the the at equal
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you wrote. So if any of
fallogens would like to get in touch with
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00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:12.960
you, connect with you, speak
to you, meet with you, what's
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00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:17.269
the best way to get to at
of Jeremy Loy linked SA. I'm always
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happing to talk to fellow Morkss,
so love to talk to that because you
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know, we can collaborate and aggregate
all the mistakes we've made and hopefully might
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mess of them. So if anyone
does want to talk concept me on linked
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in, I'd love it. Feel
free to say yeah, I would encourage
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anyone who's listening to us to find
you on Linkedin, find that that's equal
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age. You wrote about the six
lesson that you've leving me to be marketing
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and read it. It's a good
rate many things. Once again, Jeremy,
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was great to have younger show today. Thank you. Right operatics has
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redefined the meaning of revenue generation for
technology companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts
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00:17:52.410 --> 00:17:57.839
of building and managing inside sales teams
inhouse has existed for many years, companies
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00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:03.039
are struggling with a lack of focus, agility and scale required in today's fast
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00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:08.839
and complex world of enterprise technology.
Sales. See How operatics can help your
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00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:15.750
company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet.
You've been listening to be tob revenue acceleration.
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